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David Frum's Bullet Points on Immigration

YellowSnowYellowSnow Moderator, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 35,415 Founders Club
(1) The economic benefits to Americans of America’s present immigration policies are very small. Almost all of those benefits are captured by the most affluent Americans.

(2) The fiscal costs of present immigration policies are high. The argument that immigrants strengthen Social Security and Medicare is false. America’s bias in favor of low-skilled immigrants, legal and illegal, means that immigrants pay relatively little in taxes, while requiring a lot by way of services.

(3) The most important costs and benefits of immigration are neither economic nor fiscal, but social and political.

(4) Among those social and political costs: the radicalization of politics that we see in so many developed countries. Brexit, the rise of the French National Front, the triumph of authoritarian populists in Italy and other European Union countries, and America’s own election of Donald Trump—all were fueled by many causes, but high levels of immigration provided the spark.

(5) The pressures of immigration are not going away on their own. Over the coming decades, more and more people in the global South will be able to afford to make their way—legally, illegally, or as asylum seekers—to the global North. Unless properly managed, this impending movement of people may destabilize democratic governments on an even greater scale than anything we have yet seen.

(6) Many of the benefits of immigration can be gained, and many of the harms minimized, by more strategic immigration policies, including stricter enforcement in the workplace to protect legal workers; faster removal of unfounded asylum claimants; more emphasis on skilled rather than unskilled immigrants; and lower total numbers of immigrants.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/03/david-frum-reacts-immigration-responses/585391/

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Comments

  • LebamDawgLebamDawg Member Posts: 8,712 Standard Supporter
    I am confused because when you said bullets I thought he wanted genocide.

    then you numbered them
  • RaceBannonRaceBannon Member, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 105,802 Founders Club

    I've long stated in the Tug that Trump is god's judgement for the collective stupidity of the Democratic and Republican parties of the past number of decades. As with the case on so many policy matters, I find Trump's messaging to be shitty and demagogic (Messico wasn't going to pay for the wall) and still can't stand the man. But he wouldn't be in office today, if we have fixed the illegal immigration issue decades ago. The Dems are so fucking stupid on this issue in that you can't protect the group you claim needing protection unless you win elections. Open borders is bad electoral college politics.

    Look at my post about New Mexico today

    Nobody is learning
  • YellowSnowYellowSnow Moderator, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 35,415 Founders Club

    I've long stated in the Tug that Trump is god's judgement for the collective stupidity of the Democratic and Republican parties of the past number of decades. As with the case on so many policy matters, I find Trump's messaging to be shitty and demagogic (Messico wasn't going to pay for the wall) and still can't stand the man. But he wouldn't be in office today, if we have fixed the illegal immigration issue decades ago. The Dems are so fucking stupid on this issue in that you can't protect the group you claim needing protection unless you win elections. Open borders is bad electoral college politics.

    Look at my post about New Mexico today

    Nobody is learning
    Yes, I don't want militias patrolling the border. That's not a good situation.
  • YellowSnowYellowSnow Moderator, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 35,415 Founders Club
    Amazing how such logic could be printed in a liberal rag like The Atlantic by one of the most prominent Never Trump cuckolds.
  • GrundleStiltzkinGrundleStiltzkin Member Posts: 61,499 Standard Supporter

    Amazing how such logic could be printed in a liberal rag like The Atlantic by one of the most prominent Never Trump cuckolds.

    I've been enjoying many pieces from The Atlantic of late. Several writers there saw how horrible media practices were on the Covington Catholic story, for example.
  • YellowSnowYellowSnow Moderator, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 35,415 Founders Club

    Amazing how such logic could be printed in a liberal rag like The Atlantic by one of the most prominent Never Trump cuckolds.

    I've been enjoying many pieces from The Atlantic of late. Several writers there saw how horrible media practices were on the Covington Catholic story, for example.
    The Atlantic is left of center no doubt, but they do have some good journalists.
  • GrundleStiltzkinGrundleStiltzkin Member Posts: 61,499 Standard Supporter

    The Dems inherently have two opposed bases on immigration.

    White working class which obviously favors restrictive immigration policies.

    Immigrants and minorities (and neolibs) that favor more open immigration policies.

    It never ceases to amaze me that they can continue to talk out of both sides of their mouths for decades and not be taken to task for it.

    I really am hoping that Trump can manage to break the current intransigence of the system.

    He won't. That eddy of the swamp runs deep.
  • SFGbobSFGbob Member Posts: 32,211

    The Dems inherently have two opposed bases on immigration.

    White working class which obviously favors restrictive immigration policies.

    Immigrants and minorities (and neolibs) that favor more open immigration policies.

    It never ceases to amaze me that they can continue to talk out of both sides of their mouths for decades and not be taken to task for it.

    I really am hoping that Trump can manage to break the current intransigence of the system.

    The Rats have pretty much written off the White working class vote.
  • YellowSnowYellowSnow Moderator, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 35,415 Founders Club
    SFGbob said:

    The Dems inherently have two opposed bases on immigration.

    White working class which obviously favors restrictive immigration policies.

    Immigrants and minorities (and neolibs) that favor more open immigration policies.

    It never ceases to amaze me that they can continue to talk out of both sides of their mouths for decades and not be taken to task for it.

    I really am hoping that Trump can manage to break the current intransigence of the system.

    The Rats have pretty much written off the White working class vote.
    I don’t know how they expect to keep the coalition of victims together. Blacks don’t like illegal immigration. Hispanics don’t like abortion in the 3rd trimester. Gays don’t like Muslims that want them stoned to death. Muslims hate gays. Rich tech liberals don’t want to pay 70% top rate.
  • LebamDawgLebamDawg Member Posts: 8,712 Standard Supporter
    The repubs and Dems along with any deep state folks are going to fight like hell to stop Trump doing anything about immigration.


    The militia groups will be increasing, more illegal immigration will happen, and our fucking sanctuary cities will continue, the press will continue as is. The future is not looking good.

    Boy is it going to be ugly for the next 6-10 presidents and elections. I will be dead so won't care. Maybe I will just curl up on a sidewalk in Seattle when I go so no one will have to clean up after me.
  • CirrhosisDawgCirrhosisDawg Member Posts: 6,390
    LebamDawg said:

    The repubs and Dems along with any deep state folks are going to fight like hell to stop Trump doing anything about immigration.


    The militia groups will be increasing, more illegal immigration will happen, and our fucking sanctuary cities will continue, the press will continue as is. The future is not looking good.

    Boy is it going to be ugly for the next 6-10 presidents and elections. I will be dead so won't care. Maybe I will just curl up on a sidewalk in Seattle when I go so no one will have to clean up after me.

    Make sure to sleep with the light on tonight and with the pillow over your head. The scary illegal immigrant who’s about to steal your job won’t hurt you.
  • MikeDamoneMikeDamone Member Posts: 37,781
    “The economic benefits to Americans of America’s present immigration policies are very small. Almost all of those benefits are captured by the most affluent Americans.”

    That works for me.
  • YellowSnowYellowSnow Moderator, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 35,415 Founders Club

    LebamDawg said:

    The repubs and Dems along with any deep state folks are going to fight like hell to stop Trump doing anything about immigration.


    The militia groups will be increasing, more illegal immigration will happen, and our fucking sanctuary cities will continue, the press will continue as is. The future is not looking good.

    Boy is it going to be ugly for the next 6-10 presidents and elections. I will be dead so won't care. Maybe I will just curl up on a sidewalk in Seattle when I go so no one will have to clean up after me.

    Make sure to sleep with the light on tonight and with the pillow over your head. The scary illegal immigrant who’s about to steal your job won’t hurt you.
    Come on @CirrhosisDawg , Frum’s our boy and his analysis is spot on
  • YellowSnowYellowSnow Moderator, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 35,415 Founders Club

    “The economic benefits to Americans of America’s present immigration policies are very small. Almost all of those benefits are captured by the most affluent Americans.”

    That works for me.

    I do my own lawn and what not, but Mrs Yella insists on a house cleaner bi-weekly so we’re only capturing some benefit.
  • YellowSnowYellowSnow Moderator, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 35,415 Founders Club

    “The economic benefits to Americans of America’s present immigration policies are very small. Almost all of those benefits are captured by the most affluent Americans.”

    That works for me.

    I do my own lawn and what not, but Mrs Yella insists on a house cleaner bi-weekly so we’re only capturing some benefit.
    I do literally nothing. Mrs Damone does the wash. That about it. Mexicans (or people from Mexican countries) does the outside. Russians and Americans take care of the inside.

    Hard to spend all day at the bar with a bunch of chores hanging over my head.
    Wait so you’re the do nothing owner? The guy waiving on the side of the Southwest Plumbing Truck? God, I hate you and your highway robbery prices.
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