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2024 vice president candidate heard from
Comments
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Bullshit!HardlyClothed said:
Ha, “misty eyed”. The old Soviet union was not a good place to live. But for the average citizen, modern Russia is worse in many ways. This isn’t really a contested position.SFGbob said:
Is this guy seriously getting misty eyed over the demise of the Soviet Union? Any possibility that gangsterism and theft that arose after the collapse Russian Communism was a direct result of the Soviet system that they had lived under for nearly 80 years?HardlyClothed said:
Yes, corruption was the biggest problem and the downfall of the Soviet Union. Not disputing that.RaceBannon said:
That's actually not different at allHardlyClothed said:
Well one basic difference is that the enormous wealth is held privately by a priveleged few and not controlled by the state.RaceBannon said:
If he revived the Soviet Union? Yes, that's what I wroteHardlyClothed said:Putin is a right-wing nationalist leading an oligarchy of billionaires who made their money by acquiring (stealing) state assets during post-Soviet privatization.
But the left would love him.
What's the difference between Putin and your run of the mill commie? They stole the assets the commies had stolen. Its still the state uber alles
In old Soviet Union some people were always more equal than others and the "state" was the thugs who ran the party and lived in fabulous Dachas
There is more wealth now so that's different
Before the fall in ‘91 the average person was better off than they are now due to flawed but effective state programs. Privatization in the mid 90s led to the biggest decline in life expectancy (outside of war) in the entire 20th century as those services were cut and state owned assets were snatched up by the current oligarchs. The Clinton admin mangled the post-Soviet economic transition. -
Who said anything about invasion? Oh right, your conflating to make it a binary choice. I'm on record as saying we should condemn dictators using mass murder to stay in power. It's a wild fucking stance to take, I know.HardlyClothed said:
Ah yes, saying we have no business interventing there means I also support the dictatorship.UW_Doog_Bot said:
So you are on record as supporting a communist dictator rigging elections and using violence to suppress legitimate elections?HardlyClothed said:But it is a coup. The end goal is clearly for the military to depose Maduro and elevate this guy noone had heard of 48 hours ago.
We have no business meddling like that. Her statement is good and correct.
“We shouldn’t invade Iraq it will be a disaster”
“So you’re on record as supporting Saddam and his violent repression of his people? Traitor!!!” -
How is life in Poland, Czechoslovakia, Hungry and what was formally East Germany?HardlyClothed said:
Ha, “misty eyed”. The old Soviet union was not a good place to live. But for the average citizen, modern Russia is worse in many ways. This isn’t really a contested position.SFGbob said:
Is this guy seriously getting misty eyed over the demise of the Soviet Union? Any possibility that gangsterism and theft that arose after the collapse Russian Communism was a direct result of the Soviet system that they had lived under for nearly 80 years?HardlyClothed said:
Yes, corruption was the biggest problem and the downfall of the Soviet Union. Not disputing that.RaceBannon said:
That's actually not different at allHardlyClothed said:
Well one basic difference is that the enormous wealth is held privately by a priveleged few and not controlled by the state.RaceBannon said:
If he revived the Soviet Union? Yes, that's what I wroteHardlyClothed said:Putin is a right-wing nationalist leading an oligarchy of billionaires who made their money by acquiring (stealing) state assets during post-Soviet privatization.
But the left would love him.
What's the difference between Putin and your run of the mill commie? They stole the assets the commies had stolen. Its still the state uber alles
In old Soviet Union some people were always more equal than others and the "state" was the thugs who ran the party and lived in fabulous Dachas
There is more wealth now so that's different
Before the fall in ‘91 the average person was better off than they are now due to flawed but effective state programs. Privatization in the mid 90s led to the biggest decline in life expectancy (outside of war) in the entire 20th century as those services were cut and state owned assets were snatched up by the current oligarchs. The Clinton admin mangled the post-Soviet economic transition.
Soviet era communism is responsible for how fucked up Russia is today, blaming Clinton or the west or the US for how screwed up they are today is bullshit.
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Ok fine, condemn them. That’s it. I don’t have a problem with saying Maduro is bad.UW_Doog_Bot said:
Who said anything about invasion? Oh right, your conflating to make it a binary choice. I'm on record as saying we should condemn dictators using mass murder to stay in power. It's a wild fucking stance to take, I know.HardlyClothed said:
Ah yes, saying we have no business interventing there means I also support the dictatorship.UW_Doog_Bot said:
So you are on record as supporting a communist dictator rigging elections and using violence to suppress legitimate elections?HardlyClothed said:But it is a coup. The end goal is clearly for the military to depose Maduro and elevate this guy noone had heard of 48 hours ago.
We have no business meddling like that. Her statement is good and correct.
“We shouldn’t invade Iraq it will be a disaster”
“So you’re on record as supporting Saddam and his violent repression of his people? Traitor!!!”
But don’t intervene and recognize a different government. Not our business. -
So do you think we shouldn't recognize Taiwan?HardlyClothed said:
Ok fine, condemn them. That’s it. I don’t have a problem with saying Maduro is bad.UW_Doog_Bot said:
Who said anything about invasion? Oh right, your conflating to make it a binary choice. I'm on record as saying we should condemn dictators using mass murder to stay in power. It's a wild fucking stance to take, I know.HardlyClothed said:
Ah yes, saying we have no business interventing there means I also support the dictatorship.UW_Doog_Bot said:
So you are on record as supporting a communist dictator rigging elections and using violence to suppress legitimate elections?HardlyClothed said:But it is a coup. The end goal is clearly for the military to depose Maduro and elevate this guy noone had heard of 48 hours ago.
We have no business meddling like that. Her statement is good and correct.
“We shouldn’t invade Iraq it will be a disaster”
“So you’re on record as supporting Saddam and his violent repression of his people? Traitor!!!”
But don’t intervene and recognize a different government. Not our business. -
You mean don't recognize a different government when the old government is a Socialist government that you support.HardlyClothed said:
Ok fine, condemn them. That’s it. I don’t have a problem with saying Maduro is bad.UW_Doog_Bot said:
Who said anything about invasion? Oh right, your conflating to make it a binary choice. I'm on record as saying we should condemn dictators using mass murder to stay in power. It's a wild fucking stance to take, I know.HardlyClothed said:
Ah yes, saying we have no business interventing there means I also support the dictatorship.UW_Doog_Bot said:
So you are on record as supporting a communist dictator rigging elections and using violence to suppress legitimate elections?HardlyClothed said:But it is a coup. The end goal is clearly for the military to depose Maduro and elevate this guy noone had heard of 48 hours ago.
We have no business meddling like that. Her statement is good and correct.
“We shouldn’t invade Iraq it will be a disaster”
“So you’re on record as supporting Saddam and his violent repression of his people? Traitor!!!”
But don’t intervene and recognize a different government. Not our business. -
It’s both the soviet legacy and the mismanaged transition you dunce. Clinton intervened in ‘96 to save drunk off his ass Yeltsin against a communist party election victory. Putin, protege of Yeltsin, stepped in after Yeltsin’s government went to shit, predictably.SFGbob said:
How is life in Poland, Czechoslovakia, Hungry and what was formally East Germany?HardlyClothed said:
Ha, “misty eyed”. The old Soviet union was not a good place to live. But for the average citizen, modern Russia is worse in many ways. This isn’t really a contested position.SFGbob said:
Is this guy seriously getting misty eyed over the demise of the Soviet Union? Any possibility that gangsterism and theft that arose after the collapse Russian Communism was a direct result of the Soviet system that they had lived under for nearly 80 years?HardlyClothed said:
Yes, corruption was the biggest problem and the downfall of the Soviet Union. Not disputing that.RaceBannon said:
That's actually not different at allHardlyClothed said:
Well one basic difference is that the enormous wealth is held privately by a priveleged few and not controlled by the state.RaceBannon said:
If he revived the Soviet Union? Yes, that's what I wroteHardlyClothed said:Putin is a right-wing nationalist leading an oligarchy of billionaires who made their money by acquiring (stealing) state assets during post-Soviet privatization.
But the left would love him.
What's the difference between Putin and your run of the mill commie? They stole the assets the commies had stolen. Its still the state uber alles
In old Soviet Union some people were always more equal than others and the "state" was the thugs who ran the party and lived in fabulous Dachas
There is more wealth now so that's different
Before the fall in ‘91 the average person was better off than they are now due to flawed but effective state programs. Privatization in the mid 90s led to the biggest decline in life expectancy (outside of war) in the entire 20th century as those services were cut and state owned assets were snatched up by the current oligarchs. The Clinton admin mangled the post-Soviet economic transition.
Soviet era communism is responsible for how fucked up Russia is today, blaming Clinton or the west or the US for how screwed up they are today is bullshit. -
I start the best threads. People always comment on how great the threads I start are
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The nationalist government actually controls the island, unlike this guy in Venezuela. Bad example.UW_Doog_Bot said:
So do you think we shouldn't recognize Taiwan?HardlyClothed said:
Ok fine, condemn them. That’s it. I don’t have a problem with saying Maduro is bad.UW_Doog_Bot said:
Who said anything about invasion? Oh right, your conflating to make it a binary choice. I'm on record as saying we should condemn dictators using mass murder to stay in power. It's a wild fucking stance to take, I know.HardlyClothed said:
Ah yes, saying we have no business interventing there means I also support the dictatorship.UW_Doog_Bot said:
So you are on record as supporting a communist dictator rigging elections and using violence to suppress legitimate elections?HardlyClothed said:But it is a coup. The end goal is clearly for the military to depose Maduro and elevate this guy noone had heard of 48 hours ago.
We have no business meddling like that. Her statement is good and correct.
“We shouldn’t invade Iraq it will be a disaster”
“So you’re on record as supporting Saddam and his violent repression of his people? Traitor!!!”
But don’t intervene and recognize a different government. Not our business. -
The old Soviet System didn't recognize the rule of law and corruption was rampant. The new Russia is exactly the same. The fact that they weren't able to maintain programs that existed under the old Communist system after the collapse was just the inevitable result of a failed Communist state.
Russia needed a capitalistic system but to make that happen you have to have property rights and the rule of law. They don't have that precisely because of the Soviet system they lived under not because anything Clinton did or didn't do.
