This week's higher lever history: Stalin vs Hitler

YellowSnow

Excellent TL; DR piece here in the debate of who was worse: Hitler or Stalin? I tend to lean towards Nazi Germany in this one. Stalin won the first half- i.e., 1933- 39 - in a blow out. But once the Germans got their reads down on foreign soil after 1939 it wasn't close.

https://www.nybooks.com/daily/2011/01/27/hitler-vs-stalin-who-was-worse/

Pitchfork51

Stalin, better hair

Hitler, better overall style - unis were dope

DerekJohnson

It's getting to be like Nazi Germany around here

Pitchfork51

DerekJohnson said:

Careful

YellowSnow

DerekJohnson said:

It's getting to be like Nazi Germany around here

Same as it ever was.

YellowSnow

So the big difference between Stalin's terror and Hitler's is that it was (a) mostly targeted at USSR citizens and (b) geared towards political objectives- e.g., emlimination of political enemies, forced collectivization of agriculture. The Nazis on the other hand had very specific plans to liquidate 30 million or more Slavs for Lebensraum. What the Soviets did in East Germany and the future Warsaw Pact countries when they won was relatively mild in comparison to what the Nazi's would have done had they been victorious.

UW_Doog_Bot

The correct answer is Mao. Highest body count, assisted and enabled multiple other genocides in SE Asia, and given the chance would have wiped out "inferior" peoples.

YellowSnow

UW_Doog_Bot said:

The correct answer is Mao. Highest body count, assisted and enabled multiple other genocides in SE Asia, and given the chance would have wiped out "inferior" peoples.

Not a fair contest. China will always win any sort of raw numbers analysis.

PurpleThrobber

YellowSnow said:

UW_Doog_Bot said:

The correct answer is Mao. Highest body count, assisted and enabled multiple other genocides in SE Asia, and given the chance would have wiped out "inferior" peoples.

Not a fair contest. China will always win any sort of raw numbers analysis.

Factor in the exchange rate. The Chinese and SE Asians are a little people. Takes more effort to genocide on the larger Euros.

RaceBannon

Socialism and communism should be just as reviled as Nazis.

And yet

YellowSnow

RaceBannon said:

Socialism and communism should be just as reviled as Nazis.

And yet

Mind boggling how much the fellow traveling left in the US was in denial about Stalin in the 1930s. Hitler in the 1930s was not much a villain at all compared to Uncle Joe.

UW_Doog_Bot

YellowSnow said:

RaceBannon said:

Socialism and communism should be just as reviled as Nazis.

And yet

Mind boggling how much the fellow traveling left in the US was in denial about Stalin in the 1930s. Hitler in the 1930s was not much a villain at all compared to Uncle Joe.

Not so mind boggling when you consider even now the left is in denial.

YellowSnow

UW_Doog_Bot said:

YellowSnow said:

RaceBannon said:

Socialism and communism should be just as reviled as Nazis.

And yet

Mind boggling how much the fellow traveling left in the US was in denial about Stalin in the 1930s. Hitler in the 1930s was not much a villain at all compared to Uncle Joe.

Not so mind boggling when you consider even now the left is in denial.

True, but Bernie (as much of a cook as I view him to be) ain't exactly Stalin or Mao as much of a false equivalence that OBK might draw.

UW_Doog_Bot

YellowSnow said:

UW_Doog_Bot said:

YellowSnow said:

RaceBannon said:

Socialism and communism should be just as reviled as Nazis.

And yet

Mind boggling how much the fellow traveling left in the US was in denial about Stalin in the 1930s. Hitler in the 1930s was not much a villain at all compared to Uncle Joe.

Not so mind boggling when you consider even now the left is in denial.

True, but Bernie (as much of a cook as I view him to be) ain't exactly Stalin or Mao as much of a false equivalence that OBK might draw.

Path to serfdom my friend. He's just Trotsky.

Also, having seen his cheap circus acts at his rally's I view him as a career politician who just found a platform to enrich himself.

YellowSnow

UW_Doog_Bot said:

YellowSnow said:

UW_Doog_Bot said:

YellowSnow said:

RaceBannon said:

Socialism and communism should be just as reviled as Nazis.

And yet

Mind boggling how much the fellow traveling left in the US was in denial about Stalin in the 1930s. Hitler in the 1930s was not much a villain at all compared to Uncle Joe.

Not so mind boggling when you consider even now the left is in denial.

True, but Bernie (as much of a cook as I view him to be) ain't exactly Stalin or Mao as much of a false equivalence that OBK might draw.

Path to serfdom my friend. He's just Trotsky.

Also, having seen his cheap circus acts at his rally's I view him as a career politician who just found a platform to enrich himself.

Nah, more like pre Thatcher Britain than Trotsky, but still...

MikeDamone

RaceBannon said:

Socialism and communism should be just as reviled as Nazis.

And yet

And yet the media acts like a group that carries Soviet flags and wears Che Guevara shirts as “good” because the fight the white nationalists.

It’s almost like condemning egregious display of hatred, bigotry and violence on many sides is the correct call.

HardlyClothed

Unlike Lenin, Stalin is without question a villian of history who betrayed the revolution and created a personality cult police state.

But could the Soviets have endured the loss of 30 million soldiers and continued fighting without the personality cult of Stalin? Probably not.

It is objectively better for the world that the Soviets triumphed over Nazi Germany.

Can you envision a victorious Nazi Germany engaging in de-Hitlerization following his death like Khruschev did with Stalin in the 1950’s?

PurpleJ

Lenin murdered his opponents and installed an economic system responsible for starving millions to death.

HardlyClothed

YellowSnow said:

UW_Doog_Bot said:

YellowSnow said:

UW_Doog_Bot said:

YellowSnow said:

RaceBannon said:

Socialism and communism should be just as reviled as Nazis.

And yet

Mind boggling how much the fellow traveling left in the US was in denial about Stalin in the 1930s. Hitler in the 1930s was not much a villain at all compared to Uncle Joe.

Not so mind boggling when you consider even now the left is in denial.

True, but Bernie (as much of a cook as I view him to be) ain't exactly Stalin or Mao as much of a false equivalence that OBK might draw.

Path to serfdom my friend. He's just Trotsky.

Also, having seen his cheap circus acts at his rally's I view him as a career politician who just found a platform to enrich himself.

Nah, more like pre Thatcher Britain than Trotsky, but still...

Bernie is similar to Attlee but with charisma

creepycoug

YellowSnow said:

Excellent TL; DR piece here in the debate of who was worse: Hitler or Stalin? I tend to lean towards Nazi Germany in this one. Stalin won the first half- i.e., 1933- 39 - in a blow out. But once the Germans got their reads down on foreign soil after 1939 it wasn't close.

https://www.nybooks.com/daily/2011/01/27/hitler-vs-stalin-who-was-worse/

tl;dr

my take, based on absolutely nothing of any value, is that Stalin was just trying to get his guys out of there, while Hitler was just trying to get his guys in there. The latter is way worser.

HardlyClothed

PurpleJ said:

Lenin murdered his opponents and installed an economic system responsible for starving millions to death.

Replacing the Tsarist system with communism and beating back the western funded white armies was good.

Stalin did Holodomor FYI.