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For those economics experts out there

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  • UW_Doog_BotUW_Doog_Bot Member, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 14,103
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    Swaye's Wigwam
    There's a really long form answer out there. I doubt you actually give a shit about it as you just seem to care about winning partisan talking points. In the event anyone does I will do my best to link to some good economics articles explaining.

    TLDR version is this: Tariffs and trade wars are bad mmmkay, Trump and his advisors do know this but are using them as the least bad option to negotiate with China. China has already been waging a trade war for 20+ years on us we just haven't been paying attention and/or hoping they would come around on the free trade wagon at some point. Now, we are in a space where in the next 10-20 years China may be able to dictate the rules of world trade(they are already setting up a parallel network to ours). This would be bad for everyone except China and really more specifically Chinese 1%r's. There's also a set of strategically important industries that China is very quickly taking over because of state sponsorship that it would be bad for the whole world if they succeeded. Trump & company are picking this fight now in the hopes we still can win it and force concessions from China. It might already be too late.

    Also see Chinese US currency holdings. If China/Russia succeeded in removing the US dollar as the world reserve currency it would be bad news for us and possibly the world as well.
  • 2001400ex2001400ex Member Posts: 29,457
    First Anniversary First Comment 5 Up Votes 5 Awesomes
    USMChawk said:

    2001400ex said:

    Swaye said:

    2001400ex said:

    Another reason why tariffs are stupid. They have to do this shit to cover their political asses.

    That's the thing. Trump can start this tariff war. But most of the cost is really passed to the people who voted him in.

    Also, anyone who posted that the stock market is up now. You totally fucking missed the point. And have zero clue how the stock market works.
    lolwut?


    Yes the stock market is up overall. Because there are many influences. My point is, every time a new tariff is announced, the market reacts negatively. And I was asking what people thought that means.
    It means tariffs are bad. Trump is on record that he doesn’t want tariffs and that he wants open, fair, trade. The problem is our trading partners have imposed tariffs on our goods, for decades, and are used to the status quo. So, he’s imposing commensurate tariffs on them with the end game of eliminaning/reducing tariffs. It’s called a Trade War. Sometimes in war, you have to temporarily sacrifice for the long term goal. He’s covering the farmers losses while this plays out.
    Ty will be successful next year POTD.
  • Pitchfork51Pitchfork51 Member Posts: 26,538
    First Anniversary First Comment 5 Up Votes Combo Breaker

    There's a really long form answer out there. I doubt you actually give a shit about it as you just seem to care about winning partisan talking points. In the event anyone does I will do my best to link to some good economics articles explaining.

    TLDR version is this: Tariffs and trade wars are bad mmmkay, Trump and his advisors do know this but are using them as the least bad option to negotiate with China. China has already been waging a trade war for 20+ years on us we just haven't been paying attention and/or hoping they would come around on the free trade wagon at some point. Now, we are in a space where in the next 10-20 years China may be able to dictate the rules of world trade(they are already setting up a parallel network to ours). This would be bad for everyone except China and really more specifically Chinese 1%r's. There's also a set of strategically important industries that China is very quickly taking over because of state sponsorship that it would be bad for the whole world if they succeeded. Trump & company are picking this fight now in the hopes we still can win it and force concessions from China. It might already be too late.

    Also see Chinese US currency holdings. If China/Russia succeeded in removing the US dollar as the world reserve currency it would be bad news for us and possibly the world as well.

    That was the tldr?
  • UW_Doog_BotUW_Doog_Bot Member, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 14,103
    First Anniversary First Comment 5 Up Votes 5 Awesomes
    Swaye's Wigwam

    There's a really long form answer out there. I doubt you actually give a shit about it as you just seem to care about winning partisan talking points. In the event anyone does I will do my best to link to some good economics articles explaining.

    TLDR version is this: Tariffs and trade wars are bad mmmkay, Trump and his advisors do know this but are using them as the least bad option to negotiate with China. China has already been waging a trade war for 20+ years on us we just haven't been paying attention and/or hoping they would come around on the free trade wagon at some point. Now, we are in a space where in the next 10-20 years China may be able to dictate the rules of world trade(they are already setting up a parallel network to ours). This would be bad for everyone except China and really more specifically Chinese 1%r's. There's also a set of strategically important industries that China is very quickly taking over because of state sponsorship that it would be bad for the whole world if they succeeded. Trump & company are picking this fight now in the hopes we still can win it and force concessions from China. It might already be too late.

    Also see Chinese US currency holdings. If China/Russia succeeded in removing the US dollar as the world reserve currency it would be bad news for us and possibly the world as well.

    That was the tldr?
    Yeap. Do you really want to read economic reports?
  • 2001400ex2001400ex Member Posts: 29,457
    First Anniversary First Comment 5 Up Votes 5 Awesomes
    Swaye said:

    2001400ex said:

    USMChawk said:

    2001400ex said:

    Swaye said:

    2001400ex said:

    Another reason why tariffs are stupid. They have to do this shit to cover their political asses.

    That's the thing. Trump can start this tariff war. But most of the cost is really passed to the people who voted him in.

    Also, anyone who posted that the stock market is up now. You totally fucking missed the point. And have zero clue how the stock market works.
    lolwut?


    Yes the stock market is up overall. Because there are many influences. My point is, every time a new tariff is announced, the market reacts negatively. And I was asking what people thought that means.
    It means tariffs are bad. Trump is on record that he doesn’t want tariffs and that he wants open, fair, trade. The problem is our trading partners have imposed tariffs on our goods, for decades, and are used to the status quo. So, he’s imposing commensurate tariffs on them with the end game of eliminaning/reducing tariffs. It’s called a Trade War. Sometimes in war, you have to temporarily sacrifice for the long term goal. He’s covering the farmers losses while this plays out.
    Ty will be successful next year POTD.
    He answered your question, correctly, and you get snarky. Kill yourself.
    He didn't answer the question. He said Trump will fix it next year.
  • USMChawkUSMChawk Member, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 1,796
    First Anniversary 5 Awesomes 5 Up Votes First Comment
    Swaye's Wigwam

    USMChawk said:

    2001400ex said:

    Swaye said:

    2001400ex said:

    Another reason why tariffs are stupid. They have to do this shit to cover their political asses.

    That's the thing. Trump can start this tariff war. But most of the cost is really passed to the people who voted him in.

    Also, anyone who posted that the stock market is up now. You totally fucking missed the point. And have zero clue how the stock market works.
    lolwut?


    Yes the stock market is up overall. Because there are many influences. My point is, every time a new tariff is announced, the market reacts negatively. And I was asking what people thought that means.
    It means tariffs are bad. Trump is on record that he doesn’t want tariffs and that he wants open, fair, trade. The problem is our trading partners have imposed tariffs on our goods, for decades, and are used to the status quo. So, he’s imposing commensurate tariffs on them with the end game of eliminaning/reducing tariffs. It’s called a Trade War. Sometimes in war, you have to temporarily sacrifice for the long term goal. He’s covering the farmers losses while this plays out.
    Agree, but you realize you are trying to explain this to somebody with a speed limit IQ?
    I realize it a little more with each post I read.
  • USMChawkUSMChawk Member, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 1,796
    First Anniversary 5 Awesomes 5 Up Votes First Comment
    Swaye's Wigwam
    2001400ex said:

    Swaye said:

    2001400ex said:

    USMChawk said:

    2001400ex said:

    Swaye said:

    2001400ex said:

    Another reason why tariffs are stupid. They have to do this shit to cover their political asses.

    That's the thing. Trump can start this tariff war. But most of the cost is really passed to the people who voted him in.

    Also, anyone who posted that the stock market is up now. You totally fucking missed the point. And have zero clue how the stock market works.
    lolwut?


    Yes the stock market is up overall. Because there are many influences. My point is, every time a new tariff is announced, the market reacts negatively. And I was asking what people thought that means.
    It means tariffs are bad. Trump is on record that he doesn’t want tariffs and that he wants open, fair, trade. The problem is our trading partners have imposed tariffs on our goods, for decades, and are used to the status quo. So, he’s imposing commensurate tariffs on them with the end game of eliminaning/reducing tariffs. It’s called a Trade War. Sometimes in war, you have to temporarily sacrifice for the long term goal. He’s covering the farmers losses while this plays out.
    Ty will be successful next year POTD.
    He answered your question, correctly, and you get snarky. Kill yourself.
    He didn't answer the question. He said Trump will fix it next year.
    Show me where I placed a time limit on this. You can’t. You’re bias is making you see things that aren’t there.

  • 2001400ex2001400ex Member Posts: 29,457
    First Anniversary First Comment 5 Up Votes 5 Awesomes
    USMChawk said:

    2001400ex said:

    Swaye said:

    2001400ex said:

    USMChawk said:

    2001400ex said:

    Swaye said:

    2001400ex said:

    Another reason why tariffs are stupid. They have to do this shit to cover their political asses.

    That's the thing. Trump can start this tariff war. But most of the cost is really passed to the people who voted him in.

    Also, anyone who posted that the stock market is up now. You totally fucking missed the point. And have zero clue how the stock market works.
    lolwut?


    Yes the stock market is up overall. Because there are many influences. My point is, every time a new tariff is announced, the market reacts negatively. And I was asking what people thought that means.
    It means tariffs are bad. Trump is on record that he doesn’t want tariffs and that he wants open, fair, trade. The problem is our trading partners have imposed tariffs on our goods, for decades, and are used to the status quo. So, he’s imposing commensurate tariffs on them with the end game of eliminaning/reducing tariffs. It’s called a Trade War. Sometimes in war, you have to temporarily sacrifice for the long term goal. He’s covering the farmers losses while this plays out.
    Ty will be successful next year POTD.
    He answered your question, correctly, and you get snarky. Kill yourself.
    He didn't answer the question. He said Trump will fix it next year.
    Show me where I placed a time limit on this. You can’t. You’re bias is making you see things that aren’t there.

    True. It'll be fixed later. Just like Reagan created the economy of the 90s.
  • pawzpawz Member, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 18,681
    First Anniversary 5 Up Votes First Comment 5 Awesomes
    Founders Club
    Swaye said:

    2001400ex said:

    USMChawk said:

    2001400ex said:

    Swaye said:

    2001400ex said:

    Another reason why tariffs are stupid. They have to do this shit to cover their political asses.

    That's the thing. Trump can start this tariff war. But most of the cost is really passed to the people who voted him in.

    Also, anyone who posted that the stock market is up now. You totally fucking missed the point. And have zero clue how the stock market works.
    lolwut?


    Yes the stock market is up overall. Because there are many influences. My point is, every time a new tariff is announced, the market reacts negatively. And I was asking what people thought that means.
    It means tariffs are bad. Trump is on record that he doesn’t want tariffs and that he wants open, fair, trade. The problem is our trading partners have imposed tariffs on our goods, for decades, and are used to the status quo. So, he’s imposing commensurate tariffs on them with the end game of eliminaning/reducing tariffs. It’s called a Trade War. Sometimes in war, you have to temporarily sacrifice for the long term goal. He’s covering the farmers losses while this plays out.
    Ty will be successful next year POTD.
    He answered your question, correctly, and you get snarky. Kill yourself.
    I hate to be the one to remind you. But you vouched for the worthless oxygen theif to STAY.




    The upside is you are in a position to fix this.

  • USMChawkUSMChawk Member, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 1,796
    First Anniversary 5 Awesomes 5 Up Votes First Comment
    Swaye's Wigwam
    pawz said:

    Swaye said:

    2001400ex said:

    USMChawk said:

    2001400ex said:

    Swaye said:

    2001400ex said:

    Another reason why tariffs are stupid. They have to do this shit to cover their political asses.

    That's the thing. Trump can start this tariff war. But most of the cost is really passed to the people who voted him in.

    Also, anyone who posted that the stock market is up now. You totally fucking missed the point. And have zero clue how the stock market works.
    lolwut?


    Yes the stock market is up overall. Because there are many influences. My point is, every time a new tariff is announced, the market reacts negatively. And I was asking what people thought that means.
    It means tariffs are bad. Trump is on record that he doesn’t want tariffs and that he wants open, fair, trade. The problem is our trading partners have imposed tariffs on our goods, for decades, and are used to the status quo. So, he’s imposing commensurate tariffs on them with the end game of eliminaning/reducing tariffs. It’s called a Trade War. Sometimes in war, you have to temporarily sacrifice for the long term goal. He’s covering the farmers losses while this plays out.
    Ty will be successful next year POTD.
    He answered your question, correctly, and you get snarky. Kill yourself.
    I hate to be the one to remind you. But you vouched for the worthless oxygen theif to STAY.




    The upside is you are in a position to fix this.

    Show us why they call it ‘Indian Giving’.

  • BaphometBaphomet Member Posts: 1,511
    First Anniversary 5 Up Votes 5 Awesomes First Comment
    Swaye said:

    2001400ex said:

    Another reason why tariffs are stupid. They have to do this shit to cover their political asses.

    That's the thing. Trump can start this tariff war. But most of the cost is really passed to the people who voted him in.

    Also, anyone who posted that the stock market is up now. You totally fucking missed the point. And have zero clue how the stock market works.
    lolwut?


    I'm sure this was unintentional by why does your chart stop 6 months ago?
  • pawzpawz Member, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 18,681
    First Anniversary 5 Up Votes First Comment 5 Awesomes
    Founders Club
    USMChawk said:

    pawz said:

    Swaye said:

    2001400ex said:

    USMChawk said:

    2001400ex said:

    Swaye said:

    2001400ex said:

    Another reason why tariffs are stupid. They have to do this shit to cover their political asses.

    That's the thing. Trump can start this tariff war. But most of the cost is really passed to the people who voted him in.

    Also, anyone who posted that the stock market is up now. You totally fucking missed the point. And have zero clue how the stock market works.
    lolwut?


    Yes the stock market is up overall. Because there are many influences. My point is, every time a new tariff is announced, the market reacts negatively. And I was asking what people thought that means.
    It means tariffs are bad. Trump is on record that he doesn’t want tariffs and that he wants open, fair, trade. The problem is our trading partners have imposed tariffs on our goods, for decades, and are used to the status quo. So, he’s imposing commensurate tariffs on them with the end game of eliminaning/reducing tariffs. It’s called a Trade War. Sometimes in war, you have to temporarily sacrifice for the long term goal. He’s covering the farmers losses while this plays out.
    Ty will be successful next year POTD.
    He answered your question, correctly, and you get snarky. Kill yourself.
    I hate to be the one to remind you. But you vouched for the worthless oxygen theif to STAY.




    The upside is you are in a position to fix this.

    Show us why they call it ‘Indian Giving’.

    POTW
  • 2001400ex2001400ex Member Posts: 29,457
    First Anniversary First Comment 5 Up Votes 5 Awesomes
    Baphomet said:

    Swaye said:

    2001400ex said:

    Another reason why tariffs are stupid. They have to do this shit to cover their political asses.

    That's the thing. Trump can start this tariff war. But most of the cost is really passed to the people who voted him in.

    Also, anyone who posted that the stock market is up now. You totally fucking missed the point. And have zero clue how the stock market works.
    lolwut?


    I'm sure this was unintentional by why does your chart stop 6 months ago?
    And it begins 3 months before Trump was inaugurated.
  • HoustonHuskyHoustonHusky Member Posts: 5,951
    First Anniversary First Comment Photogenic 5 Awesomes
    2001400ex said:

    Baphomet said:

    Swaye said:

    2001400ex said:

    Another reason why tariffs are stupid. They have to do this shit to cover their political asses.

    That's the thing. Trump can start this tariff war. But most of the cost is really passed to the people who voted him in.

    Also, anyone who posted that the stock market is up now. You totally fucking missed the point. And have zero clue how the stock market works.
    lolwut?


    I'm sure this was unintentional by why does your chart stop 6 months ago?
    And it begins 3 months before Trump was inaugurated.
    God you are a moron...its comical...
  • USMChawkUSMChawk Member, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 1,796
    First Anniversary 5 Awesomes 5 Up Votes First Comment
    Swaye's Wigwam
    2001400ex said:

    Baphomet said:

    Swaye said:

    2001400ex said:

    Another reason why tariffs are stupid. They have to do this shit to cover their political asses.

    That's the thing. Trump can start this tariff war. But most of the cost is really passed to the people who voted him in.

    Also, anyone who posted that the stock market is up now. You totally fucking missed the point. And have zero clue how the stock market works.
    lolwut?


    I'm sure this was unintentional by why does your chart stop 6 months ago?
    And it begins 3 months before Trump was inaugurated.
    It begins on election night. It’s as if the stock market can be affected by investor confidence.
  • KaepskneeKaepsknee Member Posts: 14,750
    5 Up Votes First Anniversary 5 Awesomes First Comment
    2001400ex said:

    Swaye said:

    2001400ex said:

    Another reason why tariffs are stupid. They have to do this shit to cover their political asses.

    That's the thing. Trump can start this tariff war. But most of the cost is really passed to the people who voted him in.

    Also, anyone who posted that the stock market is up now. You totally fucking missed the point. And have zero clue how the stock market works.
    lolwut?


    Yes the stock market is up overall. Because there are many influences. My point is, every time a new tariff is announced, the market reacts negatively. And I was asking what people thought that means.
    Tariffs are stupid.

    But you’re more stupid with your stock market shit. There are over a 1000 other reasons why the stock market would go down on a particular day.
  • KaepskneeKaepsknee Member Posts: 14,750
    5 Up Votes First Anniversary 5 Awesomes First Comment
    edited July 2018

    There's a really long form answer out there. I doubt you actually give a shit about it as you just seem to care about winning partisan talking points. In the event anyone does I will do my best to link to some good economics articles explaining.

    TLDR version is this: Tariffs and trade wars are bad mmmkay, Trump and his advisors do know this but are using them as the least bad option to negotiate with China. China has already been waging a trade war for 20+ years on us we just haven't been paying attention and/or hoping they would come around on the free trade wagon at some point. Now, we are in a space where in the next 10-20 years China may be able to dictate the rules of world trade(they are already setting up a parallel network to ours). This would be bad for everyone except China and really more specifically Chinese 1%r's. There's also a set of strategically important industries that China is very quickly taking over because of state sponsorship that it would be bad for the whole world if they succeeded. Trump & company are picking this fight now in the hopes we still can win it and force concessions from China. It might already be too late.

    Also see Chinese US currency holdings. If China/Russia succeeded in removing the US dollar as the world reserve currency it would be bad news for us and possibly the world as well.

    People forget that the world reserve currency was about 3 heartbeats from going Euro during the dark days. They couldn’t do it then and they can’t do it now. And it sure as hell won’t be wuan.

    China need the US to be the US to maintain their economy. That’s our only saving grace at this point.
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