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If you believe in the people, believe in article 5
Comments
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I thought you did your best work a couple of mules in?GrundleStiltzkin said:
I was a couple mules in and missed you're money stipulation, but looks like you answered that one yourself.2001400ex said:
How is blowing up the lobbying system unconstitutional? I know the courts have decided that lobbying money equates to free speech (roughly, it's more complicated of course). I don't know of anything in the Constitution that allows for a system where politicians are legally bribed and bought off.GrundleStiltzkin said:
What does the corporate tax rate have to do with lobbying? They are two different issues.2001400ex said:
Talk it out. What's wrong with my position?GrundleStiltzkin said:
Fuck, Hondao, seriously?2001400ex said:
What does the corporate tax rate have to do with lobbying? They are two different issues.GrundleStiltzkin said:
Progressives would love to tax corporations without allowing corporations engage in the same political process that is taking their money. Mute money buckets are best, yes?2001400ex said:It's easy, overturn citizens United. Both parties govern in the best interest of the big donors. Obama made his money on crowdfunding small donations but still governed for the big corporations.
If you? want to be symmetrical about it, eliminate corporate taxes, political donations, lobbyists and all that messy redress of grievances business, and shift all tax burden to real persons.
Of course, that will never happen politically because real persons get really pissed when there's real transparency.
And honestly, I think all lobbying with money should be gone, not just lobbying from corporations.
Look at it this way, the electoral college was setup so the large wealthy states didn't have a disproportionate advantage in voting than smaller states. Why is our lobbying system setup where it favors the wealthy and corporations? Not only federal politics but local City politics too.
What, at least a third? Taxation, revenue and regulation.
And honestly, I think all lobbying with money should be gone, not just lobbying from corporations.
Patently unconstitutional.
Look at it this way, the electoral college was setup so the large wealthy states didn't have a disproportionate advantage in voting than smaller states. Why is our lobbying system setup where it favors the wealthy and corporations? Not only federal politics but local City politics too.
Feels non sequitur ( @Octavian?) but I guess this is the larger question about "money in politics." Whatever.
The easy but impossible way to remove money from politics is to remove money from politicians.
But maybe you know something I don't. -
FTFY2001400ex said:
I thought you did your best work in a couple of mules?GrundleStiltzkin said:
I was a couple mules in and missed you're money stipulation, but looks like you answered that one yourself.2001400ex said:
How is blowing up the lobbying system unconstitutional? I know the courts have decided that lobbying money equates to free speech (roughly, it's more complicated of course). I don't know of anything in the Constitution that allows for a system where politicians are legally bribed and bought off.GrundleStiltzkin said:
What does the corporate tax rate have to do with lobbying? They are two different issues.2001400ex said:
Talk it out. What's wrong with my position?GrundleStiltzkin said:
Fuck, Hondao, seriously?2001400ex said:
What does the corporate tax rate have to do with lobbying? They are two different issues.GrundleStiltzkin said:
Progressives would love to tax corporations without allowing corporations engage in the same political process that is taking their money. Mute money buckets are best, yes?2001400ex said:It's easy, overturn citizens United. Both parties govern in the best interest of the big donors. Obama made his money on crowdfunding small donations but still governed for the big corporations.
If you? want to be symmetrical about it, eliminate corporate taxes, political donations, lobbyists and all that messy redress of grievances business, and shift all tax burden to real persons.
Of course, that will never happen politically because real persons get really pissed when there's real transparency.
And honestly, I think all lobbying with money should be gone, not just lobbying from corporations.
Look at it this way, the electoral college was setup so the large wealthy states didn't have a disproportionate advantage in voting than smaller states. Why is our lobbying system setup where it favors the wealthy and corporations? Not only federal politics but local City politics too.
What, at least a third? Taxation, revenue and regulation.
And honestly, I think all lobbying with money should be gone, not just lobbying from corporations.
Patently unconstitutional.
Look at it this way, the electoral college was setup so the large wealthy states didn't have a disproportionate advantage in voting than smaller states. Why is our lobbying system setup where it favors the wealthy and corporations? Not only federal politics but local City politics too.
Feels non sequitur ( @Octavian?) but I guess this is the larger question about "money in politics." Whatever.
The easy but impossible way to remove money from politics is to remove money from politicians.
But maybe you know something I don't. -
Please stop with the Young Turk links. Maybe attend Politics fantasy camp if you can’t get enough of this guy.
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The simple answer is that corporations can lobby because the Supreme Court has recognized them as “citizens” and, as you mentioned, the courts have interpreted it as a free speech issue.2001400ex said:
How is blowing up the lobbying system unconstitutional? I know the courts have decided that lobbying money equates to free speech (roughly, it's more complicated of course). I don't know of anything in the Constitution that allows for a system where politicians are legally bribed and bought off.GrundleStiltzkin said:
What does the corporate tax rate have to do with lobbying? They are two different issues.2001400ex said:
Talk it out. What's wrong with my position?GrundleStiltzkin said:
Fuck, Hondao, seriously?2001400ex said:
What does the corporate tax rate have to do with lobbying? They are two different issues.GrundleStiltzkin said:
Progressives would love to tax corporations without allowing corporations engage in the same political process that is taking their money. Mute money buckets are best, yes?2001400ex said:It's easy, overturn citizens United. Both parties govern in the best interest of the big donors. Obama made his money on crowdfunding small donations but still governed for the big corporations.
If you? want to be symmetrical about it, eliminate corporate taxes, political donations, lobbyists and all that messy redress of grievances business, and shift all tax burden to real persons.
Of course, that will never happen politically because real persons get really pissed when there's real transparency.
And honestly, I think all lobbying with money should be gone, not just lobbying from corporations.
Look at it this way, the electoral college was setup so the large wealthy states didn't have a disproportionate advantage in voting than smaller states. Why is our lobbying system setup where it favors the wealthy and corporations? Not only federal politics but local City politics too.
What, at least a third? Taxation, revenue and regulation.
And honestly, I think all lobbying with money should be gone, not just lobbying from corporations.
Patently unconstitutional.
Look at it this way, the electoral college was setup so the large wealthy states didn't have a disproportionate advantage in voting than smaller states. Why is our lobbying system setup where it favors the wealthy and corporations? Not only federal politics but local City politics too.
Feels non sequitur ( @Octavian?) but I guess this is the larger question about "money in politics." Whatever.
The easy but impossible way to remove money from politics is to remove money from politicians.
But maybe you know something I don't. -
It sounds like you are just repeating what I'm saying.USMChawk said:
The simple answer is that corporations can lobby because the Supreme Court has recognized them as “citizens” and, as you mentioned, the courts have interpreted it as a free speech issue.2001400ex said:
How is blowing up the lobbying system unconstitutional? I know the courts have decided that lobbying money equates to free speech (roughly, it's more complicated of course). I don't know of anything in the Constitution that allows for a system where politicians are legally bribed and bought off.GrundleStiltzkin said:
What does the corporate tax rate have to do with lobbying? They are two different issues.2001400ex said:
Talk it out. What's wrong with my position?GrundleStiltzkin said:
Fuck, Hondao, seriously?2001400ex said:
What does the corporate tax rate have to do with lobbying? They are two different issues.GrundleStiltzkin said:
Progressives would love to tax corporations without allowing corporations engage in the same political process that is taking their money. Mute money buckets are best, yes?2001400ex said:It's easy, overturn citizens United. Both parties govern in the best interest of the big donors. Obama made his money on crowdfunding small donations but still governed for the big corporations.
If you? want to be symmetrical about it, eliminate corporate taxes, political donations, lobbyists and all that messy redress of grievances business, and shift all tax burden to real persons.
Of course, that will never happen politically because real persons get really pissed when there's real transparency.
And honestly, I think all lobbying with money should be gone, not just lobbying from corporations.
Look at it this way, the electoral college was setup so the large wealthy states didn't have a disproportionate advantage in voting than smaller states. Why is our lobbying system setup where it favors the wealthy and corporations? Not only federal politics but local City politics too.
What, at least a third? Taxation, revenue and regulation.
And honestly, I think all lobbying with money should be gone, not just lobbying from corporations.
Patently unconstitutional.
Look at it this way, the electoral college was setup so the large wealthy states didn't have a disproportionate advantage in voting than smaller states. Why is our lobbying system setup where it favors the wealthy and corporations? Not only federal politics but local City politics too.
Feels non sequitur ( @Octavian?) but I guess this is the larger question about "money in politics." Whatever.
The easy but impossible way to remove money from politics is to remove money from politicians.
But maybe you know something I don't. -
Shoot me now, but I agree with Race. The evidence suggests that money in politics is overblown.RaceBannon said:Hilary outspent Trump 2 to 1
Hillary outspent Bernie by more than that
She lost to both of them
Money can't buy a good candidate
JEB! was the GOP money choice and the first one out
http://freakonomics.com/2012/01/12/does-money-really-buy-elections-a-new-marketplace-podcast/
http://freakonomics.com/2012/01/17/how-much-does-campaign-spending-influence-the-election-a-freakonomics-quorum/
http://liberation.typepad.com/liberation/2007/05/freakonomics_th.html
But there is this: http://freakonomics.com/2014/04/04/some-evidence-on-whether-money-buys-political-influence/
As a citizen, I kinda like the idea that I can organize with fellow citizens to try to influence electoral and legislative outcomes. -
Also, it strikes me as wrong that the government (the City of Seattle, for example) can compel one citizen to finance another citizen's political speech. The "Democracy Voucher" stuff bugs me. I can't imagine it would be upheld if even litigated all the way to the Supreme Court.Squirt said:Shoot me now, but I agree with Race. The evidence suggests that money in politics is overblown.
http://freakonomics.com/2012/01/12/does-money-really-buy-elections-a-new-marketplace-podcast/
http://freakonomics.com/2012/01/17/how-much-does-campaign-spending-influence-the-election-a-freakonomics-quorum/
http://liberation.typepad.com/liberation/2007/05/freakonomics_th.html
But there is this: http://freakonomics.com/2014/04/04/some-evidence-on-whether-money-buys-political-influence/
As a citizen, I kinda like the idea that I can organize with fellow citizens to try to influence electoral and legislative outcomes. -
There's a reason the election campaign fund was established and Obama blew that up. That being said, politicians still act on the wishes of the people who donate money. Not the people who elected them.Squirt said:
Shoot me now, but I agree with Race. The evidence suggests that money in politics is overblown.RaceBannon said:Hilary outspent Trump 2 to 1
Hillary outspent Bernie by more than that
She lost to both of them
Money can't buy a good candidate
JEB! was the GOP money choice and the first one out
http://freakonomics.com/2012/01/12/does-money-really-buy-elections-a-new-marketplace-podcast/
http://freakonomics.com/2012/01/17/how-much-does-campaign-spending-influence-the-election-a-freakonomics-quorum/
http://liberation.typepad.com/liberation/2007/05/freakonomics_th.html
But there is this: http://freakonomics.com/2014/04/04/some-evidence-on-whether-money-buys-political-influence/
As a citizen, I kinda like the idea that I can organize with fellow citizens to try to influence electoral and legislative outcomes. -
It sounds like you don’t know the difference between clarifying and repeating. Should I only post when I disagree with you entirely? Maybe through in a couple of ‘fucktards’ so you know I disagree?2001400ex said:
It sounds like you are just repeating what I'm saying.USMChawk said:
The simple answer is that corporations can lobby because the Supreme Court has recognized them as “citizens” and, as you mentioned, the courts have interpreted it as a free speech issue.2001400ex said:
How is blowing up the lobbying system unconstitutional? I know the courts have decided that lobbying money equates to free speech (roughly, it's more complicated of course). I don't know of anything in the Constitution that allows for a system where politicians are legally bribed and bought off.GrundleStiltzkin said:
What does the corporate tax rate have to do with lobbying? They are two different issues.2001400ex said:
Talk it out. What's wrong with my position?GrundleStiltzkin said:
Fuck, Hondao, seriously?2001400ex said:
What does the corporate tax rate have to do with lobbying? They are two different issues.GrundleStiltzkin said:
Progressives would love to tax corporations without allowing corporations engage in the same political process that is taking their money. Mute money buckets are best, yes?2001400ex said:It's easy, overturn citizens United. Both parties govern in the best interest of the big donors. Obama made his money on crowdfunding small donations but still governed for the big corporations.
If you? want to be symmetrical about it, eliminate corporate taxes, political donations, lobbyists and all that messy redress of grievances business, and shift all tax burden to real persons.
Of course, that will never happen politically because real persons get really pissed when there's real transparency.
And honestly, I think all lobbying with money should be gone, not just lobbying from corporations.
Look at it this way, the electoral college was setup so the large wealthy states didn't have a disproportionate advantage in voting than smaller states. Why is our lobbying system setup where it favors the wealthy and corporations? Not only federal politics but local City politics too.
What, at least a third? Taxation, revenue and regulation.
And honestly, I think all lobbying with money should be gone, not just lobbying from corporations.
Patently unconstitutional.
Look at it this way, the electoral college was setup so the large wealthy states didn't have a disproportionate advantage in voting than smaller states. Why is our lobbying system setup where it favors the wealthy and corporations? Not only federal politics but local City politics too.
Feels non sequitur ( @Octavian?) but I guess this is the larger question about "money in politics." Whatever.
The easy but impossible way to remove money from politics is to remove money from politicians.
But maybe you know something I don't.
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*throw
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*ThrowUSMChawk said:*throw
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What did I mean?MikeDamone said:
We all know what you meant and it was fucking stupid.allpurpleallgold said:
I don’t think you know what a false equivalency is, Michael. See I asked a question, in order for me to say that two things are equivalent I would have to make a statement.MikeDamone said:
Great false equivalency as always. Also very racist.allpurpleallgold said:
Like vote without an ID?MikeDamone said:
Or just let free people do what they want....YellowSnow said:On the Yella Party platform we would just tax all political contributions and call it good.
Stop using big words when you don’t know what they mean. -
Plebes gonna plebe.GrundleStiltzkin said:
Feels non sequitur ( @Octavian?) but I guess this is the larger question about "money in politics." Whatever.2001400ex said:
Talk it out. What's wrong with my position?GrundleStiltzkin said:
Fuck, Hondao, seriously?2001400ex said:
What does the corporate tax rate have to do with lobbying? They are two different issues.GrundleStiltzkin said:
Progressives would love to tax corporations without allowing corporations engage in the same political process that is taking their money. Mute money buckets are best, yes?2001400ex said:It's easy, overturn citizens United. Both parties govern in the best interest of the big donors. Obama made his money on crowdfunding small donations but still governed for the big corporations.
If you? want to be symmetrical about it, eliminate corporate taxes, political donations, lobbyists and all that messy redress of grievances business, and shift all tax burden to real persons.
Of course, that will never happen politically because real persons get really pissed when there's real transparency.
And honestly, I think all lobbying with money should be gone, not just lobbying from corporations.
Look at it this way, the electoral college was setup so the large wealthy states didn't have a disproportionate advantage in voting than smaller states. Why is our lobbying system setup where it favors the wealthy and corporations? Not only federal politics but local City politics too.
The easy but impossible way to remove money from politics is to remove money from politicians. -
Quod edit ad te?Octavian said:
Plebes gonna plebe.GrundleStiltzkin said:
Feels non sequitur ( @Octavian?) but I guess this is the larger question about "money in politics." Whatever.2001400ex said:
Talk it out. What's wrong with my position?GrundleStiltzkin said:
Fuck, Hondao, seriously?2001400ex said:
What does the corporate tax rate have to do with lobbying? They are two different issues.GrundleStiltzkin said:
Progressives would love to tax corporations without allowing corporations engage in the same political process that is taking their money. Mute money buckets are best, yes?2001400ex said:It's easy, overturn citizens United. Both parties govern in the best interest of the big donors. Obama made his money on crowdfunding small donations but still governed for the big corporations.
If you? want to be symmetrical about it, eliminate corporate taxes, political donations, lobbyists and all that messy redress of grievances business, and shift all tax burden to real persons.
Of course, that will never happen politically because real persons get really pissed when there's real transparency.
And honestly, I think all lobbying with money should be gone, not just lobbying from corporations.
Look at it this way, the electoral college was setup so the large wealthy states didn't have a disproportionate advantage in voting than smaller states. Why is our lobbying system setup where it favors the wealthy and corporations? Not only federal politics but local City politics too.
The easy but impossible way to remove money from politics is to remove money from politicians. -
I do not believe in the people.
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Neither did the founders.creepycoug said:I do not believe in the people.
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Juicy subtext...YellowSnow said:
Neither did the founders.creepycoug said:I do not believe in the people.
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Ita.dnc said:
Quod edit ad te?Octavian said:
Plebes gonna plebe.GrundleStiltzkin said:
Feels non sequitur ( @Octavian?) but I guess this is the larger question about "money in politics." Whatever.2001400ex said:
Talk it out. What's wrong with my position?GrundleStiltzkin said:
Fuck, Hondao, seriously?2001400ex said:
What does the corporate tax rate have to do with lobbying? They are two different issues.GrundleStiltzkin said:
Progressives would love to tax corporations without allowing corporations engage in the same political process that is taking their money. Mute money buckets are best, yes?2001400ex said:It's easy, overturn citizens United. Both parties govern in the best interest of the big donors. Obama made his money on crowdfunding small donations but still governed for the big corporations.
If you? want to be symmetrical about it, eliminate corporate taxes, political donations, lobbyists and all that messy redress of grievances business, and shift all tax burden to real persons.
Of course, that will never happen politically because real persons get really pissed when there's real transparency.
And honestly, I think all lobbying with money should be gone, not just lobbying from corporations.
Look at it this way, the electoral college was setup so the large wealthy states didn't have a disproportionate advantage in voting than smaller states. Why is our lobbying system setup where it favors the wealthy and corporations? Not only federal politics but local City politics too.
The easy but impossible way to remove money from politics is to remove money from politicians.
