Nothing irritates me in basketball discussions then this Lebron is greater than Jordan conversation.
What metrics suggest that that is true? Fully realizing that the game across eras evolves and whatnot. But for every person that doesn't like the whole "Jordan won more titles and was 6-0 in Finals" argument you then get the whole stat argument for Lebron and whatnot.
What I see in LeBron is that he's a genetic freak that the manner in which the game is being called today really helps him out and plays to all of his strengths. Throughout the history of the game, the only players that I would put in that category are Wilt and Shaq. I was watching a recent play where LBJ put his head down running into the lane, found the chest of Sabonis (who was in decent guarding position), ran him over, and got the And 1. Regardless of how the game is called today, at best 20-30 years ago that isn't called a foul and at worst that's an offensive foul. All of the extra steps that LBJ takes, etc. would never have worked if he was dropped into MJ's era. Moreover, with how the game was more physical, the ability to put hands on the offensive player and keep him outside of the paint would have caused some barriers that he currently doesn't face.
But to be an all-time great, the intangibles come into play. Jordan's playoff career was 6-0 in the Finals. In those series, the series never got past Game 6. The list of players that he beat in those Finals are a who's who of Hall of Famers including Magic, Worthy, Drexler, Barkley, GP, Malone and Stockton. Getting through the East required him getting through additional HOFers in Ewing, Thomas, Shaq, and Reggie Miller. He famously put up a 63 point game in the Playoffs against arguably the best team of all time in the '86 Celtics.
If you look at the playoff winning percentage in terms of both games and series between Jordan and LBJ, it mildly favors Jordan. From '86 to '90, Jordan's teams lost only to the Celtics and Pistons ... each of which went to at minimum the NBA Finals (3 of those 5 teams won the Title). The Bulls largely built the foundation of their team starting in the '88-'89 season. From that point forward, the only year that they failed to make the Conference Finals (at minimum) was the '95 season when Jordan came back late in the year from his suspension err sabatical playing baseball. From '89 to '98, Jordan's playoff record was 29-3 and an overall record of 114-45. The comparable portion of LBJ's career would be when he moved to Miami and effectively became a partial GM as well. From that time period, LBJ is 102-44 with a series record of 24-4.
The reality is that Jordan's record in Conference Finals and NBA Finals is 12-2 vs LBJ's 11-6. If you want to be known as the best player, you have to have a consideration of what did they do against the best when the chips are on the table. 12-2 vs 11-6 is a MASSIVE difference at that level.
And when thinking about LBJ's 3 titles, the reality is that 2 of them fell into the fortunate category no matter how much you want to argue against it. Winning series in 6 or less like Jordan did leaves limited doubt. But the Ray Allen shot saved LBJ big time as @dnc pointed out. The 3-1 comeback against the Warriors was fortunate because of Draymond's meltdown in Game #4 when LBJ played him with a kick to the groin to get him the extra technical and suspension. Kudos to him for that. But the way that series played out was an unlikely title. They all count and I'm not trying to dispute that, but those 2 titles in particular leave a sour taste in my mouth when looking at how LBJ performed in those situations.
LBJ falls into the category to me where his physical greatness is undisputed. However, basketball is a game where the great players typically overcome. In his title defeats, he's lost to an in his prime Duncan/Parker/Ginobili and lost to an aging Duncan/Parker/Ginobili. He's lost to Dirk. He's lost to Curry/Thompson/Draymond and then to KD/Curry/Thompson/Draymond. The only players on that list that have a shot at being Top 10 of all time players are Duncan and KD. That list isn't necessarily any better or worse than what Jordan faced in terms of all-time greats.
Winning matters ... and LBJ just doesn't measure up for me. He's at the bottom end of the Top 5 of all time and safely in the Top 10. Should he lose tomorrow to Indiana that's another hit on his legacy in my mind. It's just hard for me to look at LBJ and not see Wilt ... physically dominate and superior but the results just never seem to match what you'd expect to see. LeBron SHOULD have far more championships than what he has if he really was the best to ever play the game. By and large, for as good as the game is right now, the only all-time caliber player that he's playing against in his prime is KD.
Nothing irritates me in basketball discussions then this Lebron is greater than Jordan conversation.
What metrics suggest that that is true? Fully realizing that the game across eras evolves and whatnot. But for every person that doesn't like the whole "Jordan won more titles and was 6-0 in Finals" argument you then get the whole stat argument for Lebron and whatnot.
What I see in LeBron is that he's a genetic freak that the manner in which the game is being called today really helps him out and plays to all of his strengths. Throughout the history of the game, the only players that I would put in that category are Wilt and Shaq. I was watching a recent play where LBJ put his head down running into the lane, found the chest of Sabonis (who was in decent guarding position), ran him over, and got the And 1. Regardless of how the game is called today, at best 20-30 years ago that isn't called a foul and at worst that's an offensive foul. All of the extra steps that LBJ takes, etc. would never have worked if he was dropped into MJ's era. Moreover, with how the game was more physical, the ability to put hands on the offensive player and keep him outside of the paint would have caused some barriers that he currently doesn't face.
But to be an all-time great, the intangibles come into play. Jordan's playoff career was 6-0 in the Finals. In those series, the series never got past Game 6. The list of players that he beat in those Finals are a who's who of Hall of Famers including Magic, Worthy, Drexler, Barkley, GP, Malone and Stockton. Getting through the East required him getting through additional HOFers in Ewing, Thomas, Shaq, and Reggie Miller. He famously put up a 63 point game in the Playoffs against arguably the best team of all time in the '86 Celtics.
If you look at the playoff winning percentage in terms of both games and series between Jordan and LBJ, it mildly favors Jordan. From '86 to '90, Jordan's teams lost only to the Celtics and Pistons ... each of which went to at minimum the NBA Finals (3 of those 5 teams won the Title). The Bulls largely built the foundation of their team starting in the '88-'89 season. From that point forward, the only year that they failed to make the Conference Finals (at minimum) was the '95 season when Jordan came back late in the year from his suspension err sabatical playing baseball. From '89 to '98, Jordan's playoff record was 29-3 and an overall record of 114-45. The comparable portion of LBJ's career would be when he moved to Miami and effectively became a partial GM as well. From that time period, LBJ is 102-44 with a series record of 24-4.
The reality is that Jordan's record in Conference Finals and NBA Finals is 12-2 vs LBJ's 11-6. If you want to be known as the best player, you have to have a consideration of what did they do against the best when the chips are on the table. 12-2 vs 11-6 is a MASSIVE difference at that level.
And when thinking about LBJ's 3 titles, the reality is that 2 of them fell into the fortunate category no matter how much you want to argue against it. Winning series in 6 or less like Jordan did leaves limited doubt. But the Ray Allen shot saved LBJ big time as @dnc pointed out. The 3-1 comeback against the Warriors was fortunate because of Draymond's meltdown in Game #4 when LBJ played him with a kick to the groin to get him the extra technical and suspension. Kudos to him for that. But the way that series played out was an unlikely title. They all count and I'm not trying to dispute that, but those 2 titles in particular leave a sour taste in my mouth when looking at how LBJ performed in those situations.
LBJ falls into the category to me where his physical greatness is undisputed. However, basketball is a game where the great players typically overcome. In his title defeats, he's lost to an in his prime Duncan/Parker/Ginobili and lost to an aging Duncan/Parker/Ginobili. He's lost to Dirk. He's lost to Curry/Thompson/Draymond and then to KD/Curry/Thompson/Draymond. The only players on that list that have a shot at being Top 10 of all time players are Duncan and KD. That list isn't necessarily any better or worse than what Jordan faced in terms of all-time greats.
Winning matters ... and LBJ just doesn't measure up for me. He's at the bottom end of the Top 5 of all time and safely in the Top 10. Should he lose tomorrow to Indiana that's another hit on his legacy in my mind. It's just hard for me to look at LBJ and not see Wilt ... physically dominate and superior but the results just never seem to match what you'd expect to see. LeBron SHOULD have far more championships than what he has if he really was the best to ever play the game. By and large, for as good as the game is right now, the only all-time caliber player that he's playing against in his prime is KD.
What in the world would make you have a sour taste about LeBron’s win over GS? He DOMINATED and completely took over.
Reggie Miller? Gtfo with saying KD is he only all time caliber player. There are 10-20 guys right now that are better than Reggie Miller. Klay Thompson is as good as Reggie Miller. You actually think Stockton is as good as Steph Curry? Are you forgetting Garnett, Pierce, Wade, Dirk, and Duncan? Were the Jazz not also an aging team? There are great players in every era.
The Warriors are a tougher foe than anyone Jordan ever faced. It’s hard to call LeBron better because 6>3, but holy shit about some of your reasoning. You’re just throwing shit on the wall and hoping it sticks.
Nothing irritates me in basketball discussions then this Lebron is greater than Jordan conversation.
What metrics suggest that that is true? Fully realizing that the game across eras evolves and whatnot. But for every person that doesn't like the whole "Jordan won more titles and was 6-0 in Finals" argument you then get the whole stat argument for Lebron and whatnot.
What I see in LeBron is that he's a genetic freak that the manner in which the game is being called today really helps him out and plays to all of his strengths. Throughout the history of the game, the only players that I would put in that category are Wilt and Shaq. I was watching a recent play where LBJ put his head down running into the lane, found the chest of Sabonis (who was in decent guarding position), ran him over, and got the And 1. Regardless of how the game is called today, at best 20-30 years ago that isn't called a foul and at worst that's an offensive foul. All of the extra steps that LBJ takes, etc. would never have worked if he was dropped into MJ's era. Moreover, with how the game was more physical, the ability to put hands on the offensive player and keep him outside of the paint would have caused some barriers that he currently doesn't face.
But to be an all-time great, the intangibles come into play. Jordan's playoff career was 6-0 in the Finals. In those series, the series never got past Game 6. The list of players that he beat in those Finals are a who's who of Hall of Famers including Magic, Worthy, Drexler, Barkley, GP, Malone and Stockton. Getting through the East required him getting through additional HOFers in Ewing, Thomas, Shaq, and Reggie Miller. He famously put up a 63 point game in the Playoffs against arguably the best team of all time in the '86 Celtics.
If you look at the playoff winning percentage in terms of both games and series between Jordan and LBJ, it mildly favors Jordan. From '86 to '90, Jordan's teams lost only to the Celtics and Pistons ... each of which went to at minimum the NBA Finals (3 of those 5 teams won the Title). The Bulls largely built the foundation of their team starting in the '88-'89 season. From that point forward, the only year that they failed to make the Conference Finals (at minimum) was the '95 season when Jordan came back late in the year from his suspension err sabatical playing baseball. From '89 to '98, Jordan's playoff record was 29-3 and an overall record of 114-45. The comparable portion of LBJ's career would be when he moved to Miami and effectively became a partial GM as well. From that time period, LBJ is 102-44 with a series record of 24-4.
The reality is that Jordan's record in Conference Finals and NBA Finals is 12-2 vs LBJ's 11-6. If you want to be known as the best player, you have to have a consideration of what did they do against the best when the chips are on the table. 12-2 vs 11-6 is a MASSIVE difference at that level.
And when thinking about LBJ's 3 titles, the reality is that 2 of them fell into the fortunate category no matter how much you want to argue against it. Winning series in 6 or less like Jordan did leaves limited doubt. But the Ray Allen shot saved LBJ big time as @dnc pointed out. The 3-1 comeback against the Warriors was fortunate because of Draymond's meltdown in Game #4 when LBJ played him with a kick to the groin to get him the extra technical and suspension. Kudos to him for that. But the way that series played out was an unlikely title. They all count and I'm not trying to dispute that, but those 2 titles in particular leave a sour taste in my mouth when looking at how LBJ performed in those situations.
LBJ falls into the category to me where his physical greatness is undisputed. However, basketball is a game where the great players typically overcome. In his title defeats, he's lost to an in his prime Duncan/Parker/Ginobili and lost to an aging Duncan/Parker/Ginobili. He's lost to Dirk. He's lost to Curry/Thompson/Draymond and then to KD/Curry/Thompson/Draymond. The only players on that list that have a shot at being Top 10 of all time players are Duncan and KD. That list isn't necessarily any better or worse than what Jordan faced in terms of all-time greats.
Winning matters ... and LBJ just doesn't measure up for me. He's at the bottom end of the Top 5 of all time and safely in the Top 10. Should he lose tomorrow to Indiana that's another hit on his legacy in my mind. It's just hard for me to look at LBJ and not see Wilt ... physically dominate and superior but the results just never seem to match what you'd expect to see. LeBron SHOULD have far more championships than what he has if he really was the best to ever play the game. By and large, for as good as the game is right now, the only all-time caliber player that he's playing against in his prime is KD.
Nothing irritates me in basketball discussions then this Lebron is greater than Jordan conversation.
What metrics suggest that that is true? Fully realizing that the game across eras evolves and whatnot. But for every person that doesn't like the whole "Jordan won more titles and was 6-0 in Finals" argument you then get the whole stat argument for Lebron and whatnot.
What I see in LeBron is that he's a genetic freak that the manner in which the game is being called today really helps him out and plays to all of his strengths. Throughout the history of the game, the only players that I would put in that category are Wilt and Shaq. I was watching a recent play where LBJ put his head down running into the lane, found the chest of Sabonis (who was in decent guarding position), ran him over, and got the And 1. Regardless of how the game is called today, at best 20-30 years ago that isn't called a foul and at worst that's an offensive foul. All of the extra steps that LBJ takes, etc. would never have worked if he was dropped into MJ's era. Moreover, with how the game was more physical, the ability to put hands on the offensive player and keep him outside of the paint would have caused some barriers that he currently doesn't face.
But to be an all-time great, the intangibles come into play. Jordan's playoff career was 6-0 in the Finals. In those series, the series never got past Game 6. The list of players that he beat in those Finals are a who's who of Hall of Famers including Magic, Worthy, Drexler, Barkley, GP, Malone and Stockton. Getting through the East required him getting through additional HOFers in Ewing, Thomas, Shaq, and Reggie Miller. He famously put up a 63 point game in the Playoffs against arguably the best team of all time in the '86 Celtics.
If you look at the playoff winning percentage in terms of both games and series between Jordan and LBJ, it mildly favors Jordan. From '86 to '90, Jordan's teams lost only to the Celtics and Pistons ... each of which went to at minimum the NBA Finals (3 of those 5 teams won the Title). The Bulls largely built the foundation of their team starting in the '88-'89 season. From that point forward, the only year that they failed to make the Conference Finals (at minimum) was the '95 season when Jordan came back late in the year from his suspension err sabatical playing baseball. From '89 to '98, Jordan's playoff record was 29-3 and an overall record of 114-45. The comparable portion of LBJ's career would be when he moved to Miami and effectively became a partial GM as well. From that time period, LBJ is 102-44 with a series record of 24-4.
The reality is that Jordan's record in Conference Finals and NBA Finals is 12-2 vs LBJ's 11-6. If you want to be known as the best player, you have to have a consideration of what did they do against the best when the chips are on the table. 12-2 vs 11-6 is a MASSIVE difference at that level.
And when thinking about LBJ's 3 titles, the reality is that 2 of them fell into the fortunate category no matter how much you want to argue against it. Winning series in 6 or less like Jordan did leaves limited doubt. But the Ray Allen shot saved LBJ big time as @dnc pointed out. The 3-1 comeback against the Warriors was fortunate because of Draymond's meltdown in Game #4 when LBJ played him with a kick to the groin to get him the extra technical and suspension. Kudos to him for that. But the way that series played out was an unlikely title. They all count and I'm not trying to dispute that, but those 2 titles in particular leave a sour taste in my mouth when looking at how LBJ performed in those situations.
LBJ falls into the category to me where his physical greatness is undisputed. However, basketball is a game where the great players typically overcome. In his title defeats, he's lost to an in his prime Duncan/Parker/Ginobili and lost to an aging Duncan/Parker/Ginobili. He's lost to Dirk. He's lost to Curry/Thompson/Draymond and then to KD/Curry/Thompson/Draymond. The only players on that list that have a shot at being Top 10 of all time players are Duncan and KD. That list isn't necessarily any better or worse than what Jordan faced in terms of all-time greats.
Winning matters ... and LBJ just doesn't measure up for me. He's at the bottom end of the Top 5 of all time and safely in the Top 10. Should he lose tomorrow to Indiana that's another hit on his legacy in my mind. It's just hard for me to look at LBJ and not see Wilt ... physically dominate and superior but the results just never seem to match what you'd expect to see. LeBron SHOULD have far more championships than what he has if he really was the best to ever play the game. By and large, for as good as the game is right now, the only all-time caliber player that he's playing against in his prime is KD.
What in the world would make you have a sour taste about LeBron’s win over GS? He DOMINATED and completely took over.
Reggie Miller? Gtfo with saying KD is he only all time caliber player. There are 10-20 guys right now that are better than Reggie Miller. Klay Thompson is as good as Reggie Miller. You actually think Stockton is as good as Steph Curry? Are you forgetting Garnett, Pierce, Wade, Dirk, and Duncan? Were the Jazz not also an aging team? There are great players in every era.
The Warriors are a tougher foe than anyone Jordan ever faced. It’s hard to call LeBron better because 6>3, but holy shit about some of your reasoning. You’re just throwing shit on the wall and hoping it sticks.
Reggie Miller was cited as a HOF caliber player that Jordan had to go through to win a title. That was the only reason I called that out.
The Heat team that LBJ had with himself, DWade (Top 5 SG of all time), and Chris Bosh was as good as any foundation that Jordan had (Jordan, Pippen, Grant/Rodman).
And from a pure talent standpoint, LBJ + Irving >>> Curry + Thompson
Nothing irritates me in basketball discussions then this Lebron is greater than Jordan conversation.
What metrics suggest that that is true? Fully realizing that the game across eras evolves and whatnot. But for every person that doesn't like the whole "Jordan won more titles and was 6-0 in Finals" argument you then get the whole stat argument for Lebron and whatnot.
What I see in LeBron is that he's a genetic freak that the manner in which the game is being called today really helps him out and plays to all of his strengths. Throughout the history of the game, the only players that I would put in that category are Wilt and Shaq. I was watching a recent play where LBJ put his head down running into the lane, found the chest of Sabonis (who was in decent guarding position), ran him over, and got the And 1. Regardless of how the game is called today, at best 20-30 years ago that isn't called a foul and at worst that's an offensive foul. All of the extra steps that LBJ takes, etc. would never have worked if he was dropped into MJ's era. Moreover, with how the game was more physical, the ability to put hands on the offensive player and keep him outside of the paint would have caused some barriers that he currently doesn't face.
But to be an all-time great, the intangibles come into play. Jordan's playoff career was 6-0 in the Finals. In those series, the series never got past Game 6. The list of players that he beat in those Finals are a who's who of Hall of Famers including Magic, Worthy, Drexler, Barkley, GP, Malone and Stockton. Getting through the East required him getting through additional HOFers in Ewing, Thomas, Shaq, and Reggie Miller. He famously put up a 63 point game in the Playoffs against arguably the best team of all time in the '86 Celtics.
If you look at the playoff winning percentage in terms of both games and series between Jordan and LBJ, it mildly favors Jordan. From '86 to '90, Jordan's teams lost only to the Celtics and Pistons ... each of which went to at minimum the NBA Finals (3 of those 5 teams won the Title). The Bulls largely built the foundation of their team starting in the '88-'89 season. From that point forward, the only year that they failed to make the Conference Finals (at minimum) was the '95 season when Jordan came back late in the year from his suspension err sabatical playing baseball. From '89 to '98, Jordan's playoff record was 29-3 and an overall record of 114-45. The comparable portion of LBJ's career would be when he moved to Miami and effectively became a partial GM as well. From that time period, LBJ is 102-44 with a series record of 24-4.
The reality is that Jordan's record in Conference Finals and NBA Finals is 12-2 vs LBJ's 11-6. If you want to be known as the best player, you have to have a consideration of what did they do against the best when the chips are on the table. 12-2 vs 11-6 is a MASSIVE difference at that level.
And when thinking about LBJ's 3 titles, the reality is that 2 of them fell into the fortunate category no matter how much you want to argue against it. Winning series in 6 or less like Jordan did leaves limited doubt. But the Ray Allen shot saved LBJ big time as @dnc pointed out. The 3-1 comeback against the Warriors was fortunate because of Draymond's meltdown in Game #4 when LBJ played him with a kick to the groin to get him the extra technical and suspension. Kudos to him for that. But the way that series played out was an unlikely title. They all count and I'm not trying to dispute that, but those 2 titles in particular leave a sour taste in my mouth when looking at how LBJ performed in those situations.
LBJ falls into the category to me where his physical greatness is undisputed. However, basketball is a game where the great players typically overcome. In his title defeats, he's lost to an in his prime Duncan/Parker/Ginobili and lost to an aging Duncan/Parker/Ginobili. He's lost to Dirk. He's lost to Curry/Thompson/Draymond and then to KD/Curry/Thompson/Draymond. The only players on that list that have a shot at being Top 10 of all time players are Duncan and KD. That list isn't necessarily any better or worse than what Jordan faced in terms of all-time greats.
Winning matters ... and LBJ just doesn't measure up for me. He's at the bottom end of the Top 5 of all time and safely in the Top 10. Should he lose tomorrow to Indiana that's another hit on his legacy in my mind. It's just hard for me to look at LBJ and not see Wilt ... physically dominate and superior but the results just never seem to match what you'd expect to see. LeBron SHOULD have far more championships than what he has if he really was the best to ever play the game. By and large, for as good as the game is right now, the only all-time caliber player that he's playing against in his prime is KD.
Jordans teams were all time as well. Lebron has carried every second of every fucking teams he’s been on minus 1 shot by Ray Allen.
Da fuq? Other than Pippen, who was "all-time" on the Bulls? BJ Armstrong? Horace Grant? Bill Cartwright? Luc FUCKING Longley?!? Tony Kukoc? Maybe Rodman. Maybe.
Lebron has had DWade, Ray Allen, Kyrie Irving. He gets ZERO titles without those guys. To say he 'carried' those teams is utter bullshit.
What exactly did Pippen do without Jordan? Can’t wait to hear that one
For starters, you impotent toad, Pippen won 3 playoff series to Jordan's 0 without the other. Suck on that for a little bit before you double down on your idiocy. I'll await your 25 paragraph response.
Comments
Mitchell - 26 shots to score 38
Imagine having to place your hopes on Westbrick. Being a Sonics fan the past 10 years would have been maddening.
What metrics suggest that that is true? Fully realizing that the game across eras evolves and whatnot. But for every person that doesn't like the whole "Jordan won more titles and was 6-0 in Finals" argument you then get the whole stat argument for Lebron and whatnot.
What I see in LeBron is that he's a genetic freak that the manner in which the game is being called today really helps him out and plays to all of his strengths. Throughout the history of the game, the only players that I would put in that category are Wilt and Shaq. I was watching a recent play where LBJ put his head down running into the lane, found the chest of Sabonis (who was in decent guarding position), ran him over, and got the And 1. Regardless of how the game is called today, at best 20-30 years ago that isn't called a foul and at worst that's an offensive foul. All of the extra steps that LBJ takes, etc. would never have worked if he was dropped into MJ's era. Moreover, with how the game was more physical, the ability to put hands on the offensive player and keep him outside of the paint would have caused some barriers that he currently doesn't face.
But to be an all-time great, the intangibles come into play. Jordan's playoff career was 6-0 in the Finals. In those series, the series never got past Game 6. The list of players that he beat in those Finals are a who's who of Hall of Famers including Magic, Worthy, Drexler, Barkley, GP, Malone and Stockton. Getting through the East required him getting through additional HOFers in Ewing, Thomas, Shaq, and Reggie Miller. He famously put up a 63 point game in the Playoffs against arguably the best team of all time in the '86 Celtics.
If you look at the playoff winning percentage in terms of both games and series between Jordan and LBJ, it mildly favors Jordan. From '86 to '90, Jordan's teams lost only to the Celtics and Pistons ... each of which went to at minimum the NBA Finals (3 of those 5 teams won the Title). The Bulls largely built the foundation of their team starting in the '88-'89 season. From that point forward, the only year that they failed to make the Conference Finals (at minimum) was the '95 season when Jordan came back late in the year from his
suspensionerr sabatical playing baseball. From '89 to '98, Jordan's playoff record was 29-3 and an overall record of 114-45. The comparable portion of LBJ's career would be when he moved to Miami and effectively became a partial GM as well. From that time period, LBJ is 102-44 with a series record of 24-4.The reality is that Jordan's record in Conference Finals and NBA Finals is 12-2 vs LBJ's 11-6. If you want to be known as the best player, you have to have a consideration of what did they do against the best when the chips are on the table. 12-2 vs 11-6 is a MASSIVE difference at that level.
And when thinking about LBJ's 3 titles, the reality is that 2 of them fell into the fortunate category no matter how much you want to argue against it. Winning series in 6 or less like Jordan did leaves limited doubt. But the Ray Allen shot saved LBJ big time as @dnc pointed out. The 3-1 comeback against the Warriors was fortunate because of Draymond's meltdown in Game #4 when LBJ played him with a kick to the groin to get him the extra technical and suspension. Kudos to him for that. But the way that series played out was an unlikely title. They all count and I'm not trying to dispute that, but those 2 titles in particular leave a sour taste in my mouth when looking at how LBJ performed in those situations.
LBJ falls into the category to me where his physical greatness is undisputed. However, basketball is a game where the great players typically overcome. In his title defeats, he's lost to an in his prime Duncan/Parker/Ginobili and lost to an aging Duncan/Parker/Ginobili. He's lost to Dirk. He's lost to Curry/Thompson/Draymond and then to KD/Curry/Thompson/Draymond. The only players on that list that have a shot at being Top 10 of all time players are Duncan and KD. That list isn't necessarily any better or worse than what Jordan faced in terms of all-time greats.
Winning matters ... and LBJ just doesn't measure up for me. He's at the bottom end of the Top 5 of all time and safely in the Top 10. Should he lose tomorrow to Indiana that's another hit on his legacy in my mind. It's just hard for me to look at LBJ and not see Wilt ... physically dominate and superior but the results just never seem to match what you'd expect to see. LeBron SHOULD have far more championships than what he has if he really was the best to ever play the game. By and large, for as good as the game is right now, the only all-time caliber player that he's playing against in his prime is KD.
Reggie Miller? Gtfo with saying KD is he only all time caliber player. There are 10-20 guys right now that are better than Reggie Miller. Klay Thompson is as good as Reggie Miller. You actually think Stockton is as good as Steph Curry? Are you forgetting Garnett, Pierce, Wade, Dirk, and Duncan? Were the Jazz not also an aging team? There are great players in every era.
The Warriors are a tougher foe than anyone Jordan ever faced. It’s hard to call LeBron better because 6>3, but holy shit about some of your reasoning. You’re just throwing shit on the wall and hoping it sticks.
The Heat team that LBJ had with himself, DWade (Top 5 SG of all time), and Chris Bosh was as good as any foundation that Jordan had (Jordan, Pippen, Grant/Rodman).
And from a pure talent standpoint, LBJ + Irving >>> Curry + Thompson
STFU you buthurt lonely stupid faggit
Lebron has had DWade, Ray Allen, Kyrie Irving. He gets ZERO titles without those guys. To say he 'carried' those teams is utter bullshit.
https://www.foxsports.com/nba/gallery/proof-that-lebron-james-had-better-teammates-than-michael-jordan-052717
How did Jordan do without Pippin? Here's a fun one, compare that with what Pippin did without Jordan.
Can we ship btp and throbber out on the next short bus?