To Road Dawgs point if both Martin and Incognito were to be released who would you rather the Seahawks pick up? I think anyone who cares about winning would say Incognito.
Incognito for sure, the comments by most of his teammates and opponents speak volumes. One of the favorite among teammates and hated by opponents. Defenders would be reluctant to get a cheap shot on RW with Incognito and Giac backing him up.
To Road Dawgs point if both Martin and Incognito were to be released who would you rather the Seahawks pick up? I think anyone who cares about winning would say Incognito.
To Road Dawgs point if both Martin and Incognito were to be released who would you rather the Seahawks pick up? I think anyone who cares about winning would say Incognito.
What the fuck has Incognito ever won?
It's a team sport and he was a pro bowler just last year.
To Road Dawgs point if both Martin and Incognito were to be released who would you rather the Seahawks pick up? I think anyone who cares about winning would say Incognito.
What the fuck has Incognito ever won?
It's a team sport and he was a pro bowler just last year.
Sorry to keep adding links, but stop making Martin out to be a martyr. Not a single guy has stood up for him. According to Brian Hartline, Martin was passing around the voicemail and laughing about it.
I feel bad that Martin was suffering, but he pulled some bullshit and ran instead of doing anything about it. Hopefully he gets some money from a lawsuit (debatable) because no team is going to put up with this shit for a tackle who wasn't even any good.
Sorry to keep adding links, but stop making Martin out to be a martyr. Not a single guy has stood up for him. According to Brian Hartline, Martin was passing around the voicemail and laughing about it.
I feel bad that Martin was suffering, but he pulled some bullshit and ran instead of doing anything about it. Hopefully he gets some money from a lawsuit (debatable) because no team is going to put up with this shit for a tackle who wasn't even any good.
“There are some people saying that Jonathan Martin is soft. For anybody to say he can’t handle it is really disappointing to me, and it’s disappointing that our society even has to question it. It’s pathetic to me. We need to look at these things logically and with common sense.” -Doug Baldwin
Sorry to keep adding links, but stop making Martin out to be a martyr. Not a single guy has stood up for him. According to Brian Hartline, Martin was passing around the voicemail and laughing about it.
I feel bad that Martin was suffering, but he pulled some bullshit and ran instead of doing anything about it. Hopefully he gets some money from a lawsuit (debatable) because no team is going to put up with this shit for a tackle who wasn't even any good.
“There are some people saying that Jonathan Martin is soft. For anybody to say he can’t handle it is really disappointing to me, and it’s disappointing that our society even has to question it. It’s pathetic to me. We need to look at these things logically and with common sense.” -Doug Baldwin
Says his college teammate. Why is there not one Dolphin that is sticking up for Martin? These are the guys who are there every day. Why was Martin laughing about the voice message with teammates until he snapped and used it against Incognito? Mike Pouncey said today that Martin has threatened to quit many times before this incident. Other teammates said Incognito treated Martin no different than any other lineman. Another player said they pulled the "Mean Girls" prank on many other players and even on Coach Philbin. Once again, it was not unique to just Martin.
The culture of the NFL is wrong and meatheadish. A lot of these guys are not very smart. I don't think it is right for veterans to make rookies foot large dinner bills, pay for trips, etc. It wasn't just Martin that had to do that though. Martin did not fit in and probably wasn't meant to play in the NFL. I don't think everyone is cut out for it. Martin was a disaster at LT and probably could not take coaches screaming at him and other lineman making fun of him for fucking up. They fucked with him because they knew they could.
To Road Dawgs point if both Martin and Incognito were to be released who would you rather the Seahawks pick up? I think anyone who cares about winning would say Incognito.
What the fuck has Incognito ever won?
It's a team sport and he was a pro bowler just last year.
Everybody makes the Pro Bowl now.
Seattle needs tackles anyway, not guards.
Fuck them both.
Seahawks guards aren't that good either. I wouldn't mind Incognito as I know Seattle has a good organization that wouldn't allow him to be a problem.
Sorry to keep adding links, but stop making Martin out to be a martyr. Not a single guy has stood up for him. According to Brian Hartline, Martin was passing around the voicemail and laughing about it.
I feel bad that Martin was suffering, but he pulled some bullshit and ran instead of doing anything about it. Hopefully he gets some money from a lawsuit (debatable) because no team is going to put up with this shit for a tackle who wasn't even any good.
“There are some people saying that Jonathan Martin is soft. For anybody to say he can’t handle it is really disappointing to me, and it’s disappointing that our society even has to question it. It’s pathetic to me. We need to look at these things logically and with common sense.” -Doug Baldwin
Says his college teammate. Why is there not one Dolphin that is sticking up for Martin? These are the guys who are there every day. Why was Martin laughing about the voice message with teammates until he snapped and used it against Incognito? Mike Pouncey said today that Martin has threatened to quit many times before this incident. Other teammates said Incognito treated Martin no different than any other lineman. Another player said they pulled the "Mean Girls" prank on many other players and even on Coach Philbin. Once again, it was not unique to just Martin.
The culture of the NFL is wrong and meatheadish. A lot of these guys are not very smart. I don't think it is right for veterans to make rookies foot large dinner bills, pay for trips, etc. It wasn't just Martin that had to do that though. Martin did not fit in and probably wasn't meant to play in the NFL. I don't think everyone is cut out for it. Martin was a disaster at LT and probably could not take coaches screaming at him and other lineman making fun of him for fucking up. They fucked with him because they knew they could.
You're really buying in to the smearing campaign against Martin. It's hearsay in my opinion. None of what you described in your 1st paragraph makes anything about what Incognito did and the overall locker room culture OK. They are simply excuses for putrid behavior and a lack of sensitivity. Call me a pussy for saying sensitivity, but whatever. Martin was dealing with personal issues that were exploited by Incognito and others. That is not acceptable in any way, shape, or form.
Read what Baldwin said again. "it’s disappointing that our society even has to question it. It’s pathetic to me. We need to look at these things logically and with common sense." Like Sven said, the NFL is a business. We can't excuse these actions as a symptom of "meathead culture". These guys are professionals. The culture that tolerates this behavior needs to change.
None of this has to do with Martin being "soft". It's just as likely that he's a professional who was tired of dealing with bullshit. Confronting it would've been useless. The only alternative was to remove himself from the situation.
I urge you to read your last three sentences again after reading my post. The problem should not be that he isn't "cut out" for the contemporary locker room culture. The problem is the culture itself. The culture that allowed this to persist.
Sorry to keep adding links, but stop making Martin out to be a martyr. Not a single guy has stood up for him. According to Brian Hartline, Martin was passing around the voicemail and laughing about it.
I feel bad that Martin was suffering, but he pulled some bullshit and ran instead of doing anything about it. Hopefully he gets some money from a lawsuit (debatable) because no team is going to put up with this shit for a tackle who wasn't even any good.
“There are some people saying that Jonathan Martin is soft. For anybody to say he can’t handle it is really disappointing to me, and it’s disappointing that our society even has to question it. It’s pathetic to me. We need to look at these things logically and with common sense.” -Doug Baldwin
Says his college teammate. Why is there not one Dolphin that is sticking up for Martin? These are the guys who are there every day. Why was Martin laughing about the voice message with teammates until he snapped and used it against Incognito? Mike Pouncey said today that Martin has threatened to quit many times before this incident. Other teammates said Incognito treated Martin no different than any other lineman. Another player said they pulled the "Mean Girls" prank on many other players and even on Coach Philbin. Once again, it was not unique to just Martin.
The culture of the NFL is wrong and meatheadish. A lot of these guys are not very smart. I don't think it is right for veterans to make rookies foot large dinner bills, pay for trips, etc. It wasn't just Martin that had to do that though. Martin did not fit in and probably wasn't meant to play in the NFL. I don't think everyone is cut out for it. Martin was a disaster at LT and probably could not take coaches screaming at him and other lineman making fun of him for fucking up. They fucked with him because they knew they could.
You're really buying in to the smearing campaign against Martin. It's hearsay in my opinion. None of what you described in your 1st paragraph makes anything about what Incognito did and the overall locker room culture OK. They are simply excuses for putrid behavior and a lack of sensitivity. Call me a pussy for saying sensitivity, but whatever. Martin was dealing with personal issues that were exploited by Incognito and others. That is not acceptable in any way, shape, or form.
Read what Baldwin said again. "it’s disappointing that our society even has to question it. It’s pathetic to me. We need to look at these things logically and with common sense." Like Sven said, the NFL is a business. We can't excuse these actions as a symptom of "meathead culture". These guys are professionals. The culture that tolerates this behavior needs to change.
None of this has to do with Martin being "soft". It's just as likely that he's a professional who was tired of dealing with bullshit. Confronting it would've been useless. The only alternative was to remove himself from the situation.
I urge you to read your last three sentences again after reading my post. The problem should not be that he isn't "cut out" for the contemporary locker room culture. The problem is the culture itself. The culture that allowed this to persist.
There is a lot to debate in your post, and I don't think you are entirely wrong, but I think Martin deserves some of the blame, and while Incognito is a terrible person, he is becoming a scapegoat in all of this. Obviously, Incognito put this on himself by using racist language, but Martin handled this wrong.
Sven point about it being a business is a valid one, but it is also not your typical business. These guys are encouraged to fuck guys up on the field. In a way, they are modern day gladiators. Some guys are able to turn that off once they step off the field, and others aren't.
On the flip side, in any business you have to be able to deal with pressure and scrutiny. It sounds like Martin could not. He was playing terribly and had recently lost his job as LT before the incident. In a business, when you are not performing, your bosses and co workers are not going to be friendly with you. I think part of it was Martin could not handle getting yelled at by his coaches and ridiculed by his teammates for playing like shit. Coaches in high school football yell and demean players. It multiplies the higher level you play at.
In my job, I have been yelled at for fucking shit up, I have been blamed for shit that wasn't my fault, and I have had really fucked up shit said to me a few times. Nobody gives a fuck what personal issues I might be dealing with, they only care if they job gets done and if they are making money. It's too bad Martin has personal issues, but he can't expect everyone to treat him with kid gloves.
I remember you saying something about studying finance. In your job, if you are losing money for your clients and the company you work for, you will feel the wrath of your bosses and the clients. They would probably say fucked up shit to you if that happened. In most businesses, you have to earn respect and prove you are worthy. Martin had not done that. He has the right to quit, but he needs to take a long look in the mirror. I think it is very likely that he has had some fucked up things happen to him, but I don't agree that he is doing the right thing or handling this well. Sorry for the TL,DR post. I didn't mean for this post to be so long, but I have been intrigued by this situation and trying to analyze it.
Sorry to keep adding links, but stop making Martin out to be a martyr. Not a single guy has stood up for him. According to Brian Hartline, Martin was passing around the voicemail and laughing about it.
I feel bad that Martin was suffering, but he pulled some bullshit and ran instead of doing anything about it. Hopefully he gets some money from a lawsuit (debatable) because no team is going to put up with this shit for a tackle who wasn't even any good.
“There are some people saying that Jonathan Martin is soft. For anybody to say he can’t handle it is really disappointing to me, and it’s disappointing that our society even has to question it. It’s pathetic to me. We need to look at these things logically and with common sense.” -Doug Baldwin
Says his college teammate. Why is there not one Dolphin that is sticking up for Martin? These are the guys who are there every day. Why was Martin laughing about the voice message with teammates until he snapped and used it against Incognito? Mike Pouncey said today that Martin has threatened to quit many times before this incident. Other teammates said Incognito treated Martin no different than any other lineman. Another player said they pulled the "Mean Girls" prank on many other players and even on Coach Philbin. Once again, it was not unique to just Martin.
The culture of the NFL is wrong and meatheadish. A lot of these guys are not very smart. I don't think it is right for veterans to make rookies foot large dinner bills, pay for trips, etc. It wasn't just Martin that had to do that though. Martin did not fit in and probably wasn't meant to play in the NFL. I don't think everyone is cut out for it. Martin was a disaster at LT and probably could not take coaches screaming at him and other lineman making fun of him for fucking up. They fucked with him because they knew they could.
You're really buying in to the smearing campaign against Martin. It's hearsay in my opinion. None of what you described in your 1st paragraph makes anything about what Incognito did and the overall locker room culture OK. They are simply excuses for putrid behavior and a lack of sensitivity. Call me a pussy for saying sensitivity, but whatever. Martin was dealing with personal issues that were exploited by Incognito and others. That is not acceptable in any way, shape, or form.
Read what Baldwin said again. "it’s disappointing that our society even has to question it. It’s pathetic to me. We need to look at these things logically and with common sense." Like Sven said, the NFL is a business. We can't excuse these actions as a symptom of "meathead culture". These guys are professionals. The culture that tolerates this behavior needs to change.
None of this has to do with Martin being "soft". It's just as likely that he's a professional who was tired of dealing with bullshit. Confronting it would've been useless. The only alternative was to remove himself from the situation.
I urge you to read your last three sentences again after reading my post. The problem should not be that he isn't "cut out" for the contemporary locker room culture. The problem is the culture itself. The culture that allowed this to persist.
There is a lot to debate in your post, and I don't think you are entirely wrong, but I think Martin deserves some of the blame, and while Incognito is a terrible person, he is becoming a scapegoat in all of this. Obviously, Incognito put this on himself by using racist language, but Martin handled this wrong.
Sven point about it being a business is a valid one, but it is also not your typical business. These guys are encouraged to fuck guys up on the field. In a way, they are modern day gladiators. Some guys are able to turn that off once they step off the field, and others aren't.
On the flip side, in any business you have to be able to deal with pressure and scrutiny. It sounds like Martin could not. He was playing terribly and had recently lost his job as LT before the incident. In a business, when you are not performing, your bosses and co workers are not going to be friendly with you. I think part of it was Martin could not handle getting yelled at by his coaches and ridiculed by his teammates for playing like shit. Coaches in high school football yell and demean players. It multiplies the higher level you play at.
In my job, I have been yelled at for fucking shit up, I have been blamed for shit that wasn't my fault, and I have had really fucked up shit said to me a few times. Nobody gives a fuck what personal issues I might be dealing with, they only care if they job gets done and if they are making money. It's too bad Martin has personal issues, but he can't expect everyone to treat him with kid gloves.
I remember you saying something about studying finance. In your job, if you are losing money for your clients and the company you work for, you will feel the wrath of your bosses and the clients. They would probably say fucked up shit to you if that happened. In most businesses, you have to earn respect and prove you are worthy. Martin had not done that. He has the right to quit, but he needs to take a long look in the mirror. I think it is very likely that he has had some fucked up things happen to him, but I don't agree that he is doing the right thing or handling this well. Sorry for the TL,DR post. I didn't mean for this post to be so long, but I have been intrigued by this situation and trying to analyze it.
Not that he would give a fuck, but I'm backing Collegedoog on this. Disregarding whether Incognito is racist or not, it's hard to defend fucking with a guy's income. And to everyone claiming that Martin should've punched that fat fuck in his face, how would that have solved anything in the locker room? Oh, and I'm not buying that one of Harboughghssghshs linemen was fucking soft.
Sorry to keep adding links, but stop making Martin out to be a martyr. Not a single guy has stood up for him. According to Brian Hartline, Martin was passing around the voicemail and laughing about it.
I feel bad that Martin was suffering, but he pulled some bullshit and ran instead of doing anything about it. Hopefully he gets some money from a lawsuit (debatable) because no team is going to put up with this shit for a tackle who wasn't even any good.
“There are some people saying that Jonathan Martin is soft. For anybody to say he can’t handle it is really disappointing to me, and it’s disappointing that our society even has to question it. It’s pathetic to me. We need to look at these things logically and with common sense.” -Doug Baldwin
Says his college teammate. Why is there not one Dolphin that is sticking up for Martin? These are the guys who are there every day. Why was Martin laughing about the voice message with teammates until he snapped and used it against Incognito? Mike Pouncey said today that Martin has threatened to quit many times before this incident. Other teammates said Incognito treated Martin no different than any other lineman. Another player said they pulled the "Mean Girls" prank on many other players and even on Coach Philbin. Once again, it was not unique to just Martin.
The culture of the NFL is wrong and meatheadish. A lot of these guys are not very smart. I don't think it is right for veterans to make rookies foot large dinner bills, pay for trips, etc. It wasn't just Martin that had to do that though. Martin did not fit in and probably wasn't meant to play in the NFL. I don't think everyone is cut out for it. Martin was a disaster at LT and probably could not take coaches screaming at him and other lineman making fun of him for fucking up. They fucked with him because they knew they could.
You're really buying in to the smearing campaign against Martin. It's hearsay in my opinion. None of what you described in your 1st paragraph makes anything about what Incognito did and the overall locker room culture OK. They are simply excuses for putrid behavior and a lack of sensitivity. Call me a pussy for saying sensitivity, but whatever. Martin was dealing with personal issues that were exploited by Incognito and others. That is not acceptable in any way, shape, or form.
Read what Baldwin said again. "it’s disappointing that our society even has to question it. It’s pathetic to me. We need to look at these things logically and with common sense." Like Sven said, the NFL is a business. We can't excuse these actions as a symptom of "meathead culture". These guys are professionals. The culture that tolerates this behavior needs to change.
None of this has to do with Martin being "soft". It's just as likely that he's a professional who was tired of dealing with bullshit. Confronting it would've been useless. The only alternative was to remove himself from the situation.
I urge you to read your last three sentences again after reading my post. The problem should not be that he isn't "cut out" for the contemporary locker room culture. The problem is the culture itself. The culture that allowed this to persist.
There is a lot to debate in your post, and I don't think you are entirely wrong, but I think Martin deserves some of the blame, and while Incognito is a terrible person, he is becoming a scapegoat in all of this. Obviously, Incognito put this on himself by using racist language, but Martin handled this wrong.
Sven point about it being a business is a valid one, but it is also not your typical business. These guys are encouraged to fuck guys up on the field. In a way, they are modern day gladiators. Some guys are able to turn that off once they step off the field, and others aren't.
On the flip side, in any business you have to be able to deal with pressure and scrutiny. It sounds like Martin could not. He was playing terribly and had recently lost his job as LT before the incident. In a business, when you are not performing, your bosses and co workers are not going to be friendly with you. I think part of it was Martin could not handle getting yelled at by his coaches and ridiculed by his teammates for playing like shit. Coaches in high school football yell and demean players. It multiplies the higher level you play at.
In my job, I have been yelled at for fucking shit up, I have been blamed for shit that wasn't my fault, and I have had really fucked up shit said to me a few times. Nobody gives a fuck what personal issues I might be dealing with, they only care if they job gets done and if they are making money. It's too bad Martin has personal issues, but he can't expect everyone to treat him with kid gloves.
I remember you saying something about studying finance. In your job, if you are losing money for your clients and the company you work for, you will feel the wrath of your bosses and the clients. They would probably say fucked up shit to you if that happened. In most businesses, you have to earn respect and prove you are worthy. Martin had not done that. He has the right to quit, but he needs to take a long look in the mirror. I think it is very likely that he has had some fucked up things happen to him, but I don't agree that he is doing the right thing or handling this well. Sorry for the TL,DR post. I didn't mean for this post to be so long, but I have been intrigued by this situation and trying to analyze it.
Not that he would give a fuck, but I'm backing Collegedoog on this. Disregarding whether Incognito is racist or not, it's hard to defend fucking with a guy's income. And to everyone claiming that Martin should've punched that fat fuck in his face, how would that have solved anything in the locker room? Oh, and I'm not buying that one of Harboughghssghshs linemen was fucking soft.
I agree, but that happened to a lot more people than Martin. And yes, a lineman under Harbaugh could be soft. There are soft guys at all schools, including Alabama. Some guys are talented enough that it doesn't get noticed.
I think as a culture we have given way too much power to words. That's a big part of our internet trolling, to demystify and take the power away from unclassy and horrible speech. My two parents always told me sticks and stones could break my bones but words could never hurt me.
Of course words can be hurtful but the point is to not be a pussy about it and to break some fucking bones if need be in return.
We told our kids, who had been partially raised by a single mom, but at this point two parents, well one and a half because I was a shitty dad, that if someone called them a nigger that person was the fuck head and who cares what some fuck head thinks.
We got called to our daughter's middle school and were told she was being suspended for punching a boy. We asked why and the boy had called her a nigger. I told the school that it sounds like they resolved the issue and neither one should get in trouble. They ended up agreeing with me.
We always felt there were far more damaging instances of racism than words, and we taught that there is no excuse for not succeeding and that sticks and stones can break your bones but words can never hurt you.
America is pussy land. I blame facebook.
Where Incognito crossed the line was his actions, not his words. In a locker room you can call fellow players all sorts of shit that the world would find shocking and offensive. Its not unlike this board
Just so we are clear, did your daughter punch that kid because he called her a nigger or because she had spent time with a single mom? Was it racism or not having her dad around?
Comments
Incognito:Martin :: matmik:Grinolds
Seattle needs tackles anyway, not guards.
Fuck them both.
I feel bad that Martin was suffering, but he pulled some bullshit and ran instead of doing anything about it. Hopefully he gets some money from a lawsuit (debatable) because no team is going to put up with this shit for a tackle who wasn't even any good.
http://nfl.si.com/2013/11/06/jonathan-martin-miami-dolphins-richie-incognito/?sct=hp_t2_a1&eref=sihp
-Doug Baldwin
The culture of the NFL is wrong and meatheadish. A lot of these guys are not very smart. I don't think it is right for veterans to make rookies foot large dinner bills, pay for trips, etc. It wasn't just Martin that had to do that though. Martin did not fit in and probably wasn't meant to play in the NFL. I don't think everyone is cut out for it. Martin was a disaster at LT and probably could not take coaches screaming at him and other lineman making fun of him for fucking up. They fucked with him because they knew they could.
Read what Baldwin said again. "it’s disappointing that our society even has to question it. It’s pathetic to me. We need to look at these things logically and with common sense." Like Sven said, the NFL is a business. We can't excuse these actions as a symptom of "meathead culture". These guys are professionals. The culture that tolerates this behavior needs to change.
None of this has to do with Martin being "soft". It's just as likely that he's a professional who was tired of dealing with bullshit. Confronting it would've been useless. The only alternative was to remove himself from the situation.
I urge you to read your last three sentences again after reading my post. The problem should not be that he isn't "cut out" for the contemporary locker room culture. The problem is the culture itself. The culture that allowed this to persist.
Sven point about it being a business is a valid one, but it is also not your typical business. These guys are encouraged to fuck guys up on the field. In a way, they are modern day gladiators. Some guys are able to turn that off once they step off the field, and others aren't.
On the flip side, in any business you have to be able to deal with pressure and scrutiny. It sounds like Martin could not. He was playing terribly and had recently lost his job as LT before the incident. In a business, when you are not performing, your bosses and co workers are not going to be friendly with you. I think part of it was Martin could not handle getting yelled at by his coaches and ridiculed by his teammates for playing like shit. Coaches in high school football yell and demean players. It multiplies the higher level you play at.
In my job, I have been yelled at for fucking shit up, I have been blamed for shit that wasn't my fault, and I have had really fucked up shit said to me a few times. Nobody gives a fuck what personal issues I might be dealing with, they only care if they job gets done and if they are making money. It's too bad Martin has personal issues, but he can't expect everyone to treat him with kid gloves.
I remember you saying something about studying finance. In your job, if you are losing money for your clients and the company you work for, you will feel the wrath of your bosses and the clients. They would probably say fucked up shit to you if that happened. In most businesses, you have to earn respect and prove you are worthy. Martin had not done that. He has the right to quit, but he needs to take a long look in the mirror. I think it is very likely that he has had some fucked up things happen to him, but I don't agree that he is doing the right thing or handling this well. Sorry for the TL,DR post. I didn't mean for this post to be so long, but I have been intrigued by this situation and trying to analyze it.
Case closed.