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Cavaliers and Celtics discussing a deal involving Kyrie Irving, Isaiah Thomas, Crowder and Ante Ziz

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Comments

  • RaceBannon
    RaceBannon Member, Moderator, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 114,099 Founders Club
    salemcoog said:

    I have games 5,6,and 7 saved. They don't win without Irving. They weren't as far away this year as people think.

    Cleveland found the one guy that's a worse defender and traded for him.

    Boston traded a leader for a guy who apparently hates to win

    I feel like I was the big loser in this trade

    Agreed, Crowder was a huge leader in that locker room.
    I see what you CPOTD did there
  • Kaepsknee
    Kaepsknee Member Posts: 14,913
    dnc said:

    salemcoog said:

    dnc said:

    Saw they're getting Brookly's =pick next year too. If so that's an insane for Cleveland.

    Irving isn't worth all that.

    And Cleveland will need it as Bron Bron bye bye after '18.

    The Celts are goin all in and they should make the Finals, rather easily. No sure who the future flop number one that they would lose for next draft is but odds are, not a huge loss.
    The #1 pick next year is going to be the best top pick since Towns at least, Marvin Bagley III. And the #2 pick is going to be pretty damn good too, Seattle basketball community stupidity aside. Chances are this won't be a top 2 pick, but if it is it's a superstar.
    So I can bump this in say, like 3 years???
  • allpurpleallgold
    allpurpleallgold Member Posts: 8,771
    dnc said:

    salemcoog said:

    dnc said:

    Saw they're getting Brookly's =pick next year too. If so that's an insane for Cleveland.

    Irving isn't worth all that.

    And Cleveland will need it as Bron Bron bye bye after '18.

    The Celts are goin all in and they should make the Finals, rather easily. No sure who the future flop number one that they would lose for next draft is but odds are, not a huge loss.
    The #1 pick next year is going to be the best top pick since Towns at least, Marvin Bagley III. And the #2 pick is going to be pretty damn good too, Seattle basketball community stupidity aside. Chances are this won't be a top 2 pick, but if it is it's a superstar.
    There have been 2 drafts since Towns. "Since Towns" isn't saying much. I also remember when Harrison Barnes was the next Kobe Bryant so I'll wait to actually see them play before assuming anything.
  • dnc
    dnc Member Posts: 56,839

    dnc said:

    salemcoog said:

    dnc said:

    Saw they're getting Brookly's =pick next year too. If so that's an insane for Cleveland.

    Irving isn't worth all that.

    And Cleveland will need it as Bron Bron bye bye after '18.

    The Celts are goin all in and they should make the Finals, rather easily. No sure who the future flop number one that they would lose for next draft is but odds are, not a huge loss.
    The #1 pick next year is going to be the best top pick since Towns at least, Marvin Bagley III. And the #2 pick is going to be pretty damn good too, Seattle basketball community stupidity aside. Chances are this won't be a top 2 pick, but if it is it's a superstar.
    There have been 2 drafts since Towns. "Since Towns" isn't saying much. I also remember when Harrison Barnes was the next Kobe Bryant so I'll wait to actually see them play before assuming anything.
    LOL poont on the Towns thing. Bagley's the best prospect at this point since probably Derek Rose and maybe since the Durant/Oden class. Now, Rose and Oden both blew out their knees and became worthless, Bagley could too. He's going to be damn good baring injury though.
  • Tequilla
    Tequilla Member Posts: 20,102

    So I was listening to an NBA podcast and had to turn it off because this doofus was talking about how Kyrie and the Brooklyn pick have the same value. Is that what you guys think? Do you know why you want high draft picks? It's so you can draft Kyrie fucking Irving. A pick where you have a chance at getting a Kyrie Irving is not worth the same as the actual player.

    Boston skipped the risk that comes with the draft and skipped the 6 year development process and cashed in for a guy that's their now.

    The Warriors are a great defensive team and they could not stop Kyrie. Is that draft pick going to be unstoppable against one of the best teams of all time? What are the chances of that? What are the chances you get a player that will be better than Kyrie? Well, let's take a look.

    2016 NBA draft
    1. Ben Simmons- incomplete we have no clue what he is.
    2. Brandon Ingram- never going to be unstoppable against one the best teams of all time.
    3. Jaylon Brown- nope.

    2015
    1. KAT- definitely could be, 4 picks in and this is the first guy we've seen play with a chance to be better than Kyrie.
    2. De'Angelo Russell- gtfo
    3. Jahlil Okafor- I said get the fuck out.

    2014
    1. Andrew Wiggins- nice player but no.
    2. Jabari Parker- had a lot of injuries but no one is expecting him to be better than Kyrie at this point.
    3. Joel Embiid- ok even with the injuries I wouldn't trade Embiid for Kyrie but he still will most likely never realize his potential. I'll give a win on this one though.

    2013
    1. Anthony Bennett
    2. Victor Oladipo
    3. Otto Porter
    Lol

    2012
    1. Anthony Davis- ok he's better.
    2. Michael Kidd-Gilchrist- fuck no
    3. Bradley Beal- very good player but you're high if you're taking him over Kyrie.

    Those are the 5 drafts since Kyrie was drafted. I'd take 3 guys right now over Kyrie out of 15. And I'm being nice and only counting top 3 picks which is not guaranteed from that pick.

    They traded IT for a younger better version and avoided having to pay Thomas into his 30's and it cost them a draft pick which will most likely not be as good as Kyrie. Crowder is just a guy. This is dumb.

    Sincerely,
    Tequila

    Couldn't say it any better

    Kyrie's an elite offensive talent ... and Stevens is by far the best coach that he will have played for.

    The Brooklyn pick is great but it's not guaranteed to be anything ... the pick they got back from Philly arguably is as valuable

    And with Brown/Tatum they have young players that have the potential to keep the window open for a while

    And as I took a ton of shit for ... paying IT a max contract if you are Boston was a non-starter if you want to be a title contender ... that max will be an albatross contract for a title contending kind of team
  • FreeChavez
    FreeChavez Member Posts: 3,223
    Until anyone beats lebron in the east, all we're doing is pissing in the wind. KI hasn't done shit on his own and lebron isn't shaking in his boots about gordon fucking heyward. danny ainge is starting to get the billy beane edit where everything he's supposed to do is somehow going to work out and he's incredibly smart. Build, build, build, build vomit.

    He let his best defender go, he let their leader go, let other roll players go all for gordon heyward and KI. I don't think they are outrageously worse, but I would't call them incredibly better either. KI seems like a bit of a pussy mentally and now will have the boston media in his jock strap. He also has to come out from behind King James massive shadow to take the heat when things don't work out. I haven't seen much recently that makes me think that he has the huevos to be that guy nightly.

    At the end of the day, they both likely make the east coast finals and who in their right mind is betting against lebron, and on the celtics? Lebron will go play defense on KI and get angry while IT scores 45. Lots of hype, same old story for nba. Cavs warriors in June, warriors in 5.

  • allpurpleallgold
    allpurpleallgold Member Posts: 8,771
    If Lebron guards Kyrie the same way he guarded Durant in the Finals then Kyrie will average 40 a game.
  • NeGgaPlEaSe
    NeGgaPlEaSe Member Posts: 5,763
    edited August 2017

    If Lebron guards Kyrie the same way he guarded Durant in the Finals then Kyrie will average 40 a game.

    Especially if Kyrie grows another foot taller
  • RoadDawg55
    RoadDawg55 Member Posts: 30,144
    Crowder is a bigger pick up than most of you think. The Cavs need 3 and D guys. Crowder is a needed tough guy.

    IT's health is the wild card. If he's healthy, this year's Cavs team will be better.
  • NEsnake12
    NEsnake12 Member Posts: 3,795

    dnc said:

    So I was listening to an NBA podcast and had to turn it off because this doofus was talking about how Kyrie and the Brooklyn pick have the same value. Is that what you guys think? Do you know why you want high draft picks? It's so you can draft Kyrie fucking Irving. A pick where you have a chance at getting a Kyrie Irving is not worth the same as the actual player.

    Boston skipped the risk that comes with the draft and skipped the 6 year development process and cashed in for a guy that's their now.

    The Warriors are a great defensive team and they could not stop Kyrie. Is that draft pick going to be unstoppable against one of the best teams of all time? What are the chances of that? What are the chances you get a player that will be better than Kyrie? Well, let's take a look.

    2016 NBA draft
    1. Ben Simmons- incomplete we have no clue what he is.
    2. Brandon Ingram- never going to be unstoppable against one the best teams of all time.
    3. Jaylon Brown- nope.

    2015
    1. KAT- definitely could be, 4 picks in and this is the first guy we've seen play with a chance to be better than Kyrie.
    2. De'Angelo Russell- gtfo
    3. Jahlil Okafor- I said get the fuck out.

    2014
    1. Andrew Wiggins- nice player but no.
    2. Jabari Parker- had a lot of injuries but no one is expecting him to be better than Kyrie at this point.
    3. Joel Embiid- ok even with the injuries I wouldn't trade Embiid for Kyrie but he still will most likely never realize his potential. I'll give a win on this one though.

    2013
    1. Anthony Bennett
    2. Victor Oladipo
    3. Otto Porter
    Lol

    2012
    1. Anthony Davis- ok he's better.
    2. Michael Kidd-Gilchrist- fuck no
    3. Bradley Beal- very good player but you're high if you're taking him over Kyrie.

    Those are the 5 drafts since Kyrie was drafted. I'd take 3 guys right now over Kyrie out of 15. And I'm being nice and only counting top 3 picks which is not guaranteed from that pick.

    They traded IT for a younger better version and avoided having to pay Thomas into his 30's and it cost them a draft pick which will most likely not be as good as Kyrie. Crowder is just a guy. This is dumb.

    Sincerely,
    Tequila

    I don't think the pick is as valuable as Kyrie.

    I don't think IT is as valuable as Kyrie.

    I think IT plus the pick would have been a great haul for Kyrie if he still wanted to be in Cleveland. For a guy who doesn't want to be in Cleveland anymore it's an amazing haul. Getting them plus Crowder plus unknown big Euro dude is a ridiculous return for Cleveland.

    And your analysis is pretty good but I'd take Wiggins over Kyrie. Very good offense plus great defense > Great offense and shit defense.

    And Kyrie hasn't shown that level of unstoppability against anybody else and certainly hasn't shown it when he's not playing alongside LeBron. If I thought Kyrie was as good as he's looked against GS I'd agree with you on this deal. I don't.
    We have very different evaluations on Irving if you think Wiggins is even close.

    I've got Lebron, Steph, Draymond, Kawhi, Harden, Russ and Giannis as players better than Kyrie. That's it.
    AD?
  • dnc
    dnc Member Posts: 56,839
    NEsnake12 said:

    dnc said:

    So I was listening to an NBA podcast and had to turn it off because this doofus was talking about how Kyrie and the Brooklyn pick have the same value. Is that what you guys think? Do you know why you want high draft picks? It's so you can draft Kyrie fucking Irving. A pick where you have a chance at getting a Kyrie Irving is not worth the same as the actual player.

    Boston skipped the risk that comes with the draft and skipped the 6 year development process and cashed in for a guy that's their now.

    The Warriors are a great defensive team and they could not stop Kyrie. Is that draft pick going to be unstoppable against one of the best teams of all time? What are the chances of that? What are the chances you get a player that will be better than Kyrie? Well, let's take a look.

    2016 NBA draft
    1. Ben Simmons- incomplete we have no clue what he is.
    2. Brandon Ingram- never going to be unstoppable against one the best teams of all time.
    3. Jaylon Brown- nope.

    2015
    1. KAT- definitely could be, 4 picks in and this is the first guy we've seen play with a chance to be better than Kyrie.
    2. De'Angelo Russell- gtfo
    3. Jahlil Okafor- I said get the fuck out.

    2014
    1. Andrew Wiggins- nice player but no.
    2. Jabari Parker- had a lot of injuries but no one is expecting him to be better than Kyrie at this point.
    3. Joel Embiid- ok even with the injuries I wouldn't trade Embiid for Kyrie but he still will most likely never realize his potential. I'll give a win on this one though.

    2013
    1. Anthony Bennett
    2. Victor Oladipo
    3. Otto Porter
    Lol

    2012
    1. Anthony Davis- ok he's better.
    2. Michael Kidd-Gilchrist- fuck no
    3. Bradley Beal- very good player but you're high if you're taking him over Kyrie.

    Those are the 5 drafts since Kyrie was drafted. I'd take 3 guys right now over Kyrie out of 15. And I'm being nice and only counting top 3 picks which is not guaranteed from that pick.

    They traded IT for a younger better version and avoided having to pay Thomas into his 30's and it cost them a draft pick which will most likely not be as good as Kyrie. Crowder is just a guy. This is dumb.

    Sincerely,
    Tequila

    I don't think the pick is as valuable as Kyrie.

    I don't think IT is as valuable as Kyrie.

    I think IT plus the pick would have been a great haul for Kyrie if he still wanted to be in Cleveland. For a guy who doesn't want to be in Cleveland anymore it's an amazing haul. Getting them plus Crowder plus unknown big Euro dude is a ridiculous return for Cleveland.

    And your analysis is pretty good but I'd take Wiggins over Kyrie. Very good offense plus great defense > Great offense and shit defense.

    And Kyrie hasn't shown that level of unstoppability against anybody else and certainly hasn't shown it when he's not playing alongside LeBron. If I thought Kyrie was as good as he's looked against GS I'd agree with you on this deal. I don't.
    We have very different evaluations on Irving if you think Wiggins is even close.

    I've got Lebron, Steph, Draymond, Kawhi, Harden, Russ and Giannis as players better than Kyrie. That's it.
    AD?
    He literally said Davis is better earlier in the thread.

    That last list is just trolling.
  • RaceBannon
    RaceBannon Member, Moderator, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 114,099 Founders Club
    dnc said:

    NEsnake12 said:

    dnc said:

    So I was listening to an NBA podcast and had to turn it off because this doofus was talking about how Kyrie and the Brooklyn pick have the same value. Is that what you guys think? Do you know why you want high draft picks? It's so you can draft Kyrie fucking Irving. A pick where you have a chance at getting a Kyrie Irving is not worth the same as the actual player.

    Boston skipped the risk that comes with the draft and skipped the 6 year development process and cashed in for a guy that's their now.

    The Warriors are a great defensive team and they could not stop Kyrie. Is that draft pick going to be unstoppable against one of the best teams of all time? What are the chances of that? What are the chances you get a player that will be better than Kyrie? Well, let's take a look.

    2016 NBA draft
    1. Ben Simmons- incomplete we have no clue what he is.
    2. Brandon Ingram- never going to be unstoppable against one the best teams of all time.
    3. Jaylon Brown- nope.

    2015
    1. KAT- definitely could be, 4 picks in and this is the first guy we've seen play with a chance to be better than Kyrie.
    2. De'Angelo Russell- gtfo
    3. Jahlil Okafor- I said get the fuck out.

    2014
    1. Andrew Wiggins- nice player but no.
    2. Jabari Parker- had a lot of injuries but no one is expecting him to be better than Kyrie at this point.
    3. Joel Embiid- ok even with the injuries I wouldn't trade Embiid for Kyrie but he still will most likely never realize his potential. I'll give a win on this one though.

    2013
    1. Anthony Bennett
    2. Victor Oladipo
    3. Otto Porter
    Lol

    2012
    1. Anthony Davis- ok he's better.
    2. Michael Kidd-Gilchrist- fuck no
    3. Bradley Beal- very good player but you're high if you're taking him over Kyrie.

    Those are the 5 drafts since Kyrie was drafted. I'd take 3 guys right now over Kyrie out of 15. And I'm being nice and only counting top 3 picks which is not guaranteed from that pick.

    They traded IT for a younger better version and avoided having to pay Thomas into his 30's and it cost them a draft pick which will most likely not be as good as Kyrie. Crowder is just a guy. This is dumb.

    Sincerely,
    Tequila

    I don't think the pick is as valuable as Kyrie.

    I don't think IT is as valuable as Kyrie.

    I think IT plus the pick would have been a great haul for Kyrie if he still wanted to be in Cleveland. For a guy who doesn't want to be in Cleveland anymore it's an amazing haul. Getting them plus Crowder plus unknown big Euro dude is a ridiculous return for Cleveland.

    And your analysis is pretty good but I'd take Wiggins over Kyrie. Very good offense plus great defense > Great offense and shit defense.

    And Kyrie hasn't shown that level of unstoppability against anybody else and certainly hasn't shown it when he's not playing alongside LeBron. If I thought Kyrie was as good as he's looked against GS I'd agree with you on this deal. I don't.
    We have very different evaluations on Irving if you think Wiggins is even close.

    I've got Lebron, Steph, Draymond, Kawhi, Harden, Russ and Giannis as players better than Kyrie. That's it.
    AD?
    He literally said Davis is better earlier in the thread.

    That last list is just trolling.
    I don't think you took the emotion of the thread into account. APAG is stemming you
  • allpurpleallgold
    allpurpleallgold Member Posts: 8,771
    NEsnake12 said:

    dnc said:

    So I was listening to an NBA podcast and had to turn it off because this doofus was talking about how Kyrie and the Brooklyn pick have the same value. Is that what you guys think? Do you know why you want high draft picks? It's so you can draft Kyrie fucking Irving. A pick where you have a chance at getting a Kyrie Irving is not worth the same as the actual player.

    Boston skipped the risk that comes with the draft and skipped the 6 year development process and cashed in for a guy that's their now.

    The Warriors are a great defensive team and they could not stop Kyrie. Is that draft pick going to be unstoppable against one of the best teams of all time? What are the chances of that? What are the chances you get a player that will be better than Kyrie? Well, let's take a look.

    2016 NBA draft
    1. Ben Simmons- incomplete we have no clue what he is.
    2. Brandon Ingram- never going to be unstoppable against one the best teams of all time.
    3. Jaylon Brown- nope.

    2015
    1. KAT- definitely could be, 4 picks in and this is the first guy we've seen play with a chance to be better than Kyrie.
    2. De'Angelo Russell- gtfo
    3. Jahlil Okafor- I said get the fuck out.

    2014
    1. Andrew Wiggins- nice player but no.
    2. Jabari Parker- had a lot of injuries but no one is expecting him to be better than Kyrie at this point.
    3. Joel Embiid- ok even with the injuries I wouldn't trade Embiid for Kyrie but he still will most likely never realize his potential. I'll give a win on this one though.

    2013
    1. Anthony Bennett
    2. Victor Oladipo
    3. Otto Porter
    Lol

    2012
    1. Anthony Davis- ok he's better.
    2. Michael Kidd-Gilchrist- fuck no
    3. Bradley Beal- very good player but you're high if you're taking him over Kyrie.

    Those are the 5 drafts since Kyrie was drafted. I'd take 3 guys right now over Kyrie out of 15. And I'm being nice and only counting top 3 picks which is not guaranteed from that pick.

    They traded IT for a younger better version and avoided having to pay Thomas into his 30's and it cost them a draft pick which will most likely not be as good as Kyrie. Crowder is just a guy. This is dumb.

    Sincerely,
    Tequila

    I don't think the pick is as valuable as Kyrie.

    I don't think IT is as valuable as Kyrie.

    I think IT plus the pick would have been a great haul for Kyrie if he still wanted to be in Cleveland. For a guy who doesn't want to be in Cleveland anymore it's an amazing haul. Getting them plus Crowder plus unknown big Euro dude is a ridiculous return for Cleveland.

    And your analysis is pretty good but I'd take Wiggins over Kyrie. Very good offense plus great defense > Great offense and shit defense.

    And Kyrie hasn't shown that level of unstoppability against anybody else and certainly hasn't shown it when he's not playing alongside LeBron. If I thought Kyrie was as good as he's looked against GS I'd agree with you on this deal. I don't.
    We have very different evaluations on Irving if you think Wiggins is even close.

    I've got Lebron, Steph, Draymond, Kawhi, Harden, Russ and Giannis as players better than Kyrie. That's it.
    AD?
    Yeah, you're right. I was just looking at playoff teams when I was coming up with the names.
  • Kaepsknee
    Kaepsknee Member Posts: 14,913

    Crowder is a bigger pick up than most of you think. The Cavs need 3 and D guys. Crowder is a needed tough guy.

    IT's health is the wild card. If he's healthy, this year's Cavs team will be better.

    If they are still needing contributions from the likes of Iman Shumpert Tristan Kardashian and Kyle Corver they won't be much better.
  • dnc
    dnc Member Posts: 56,839


    Nothing would be more Dan Gilbert than getting twice the value you should for Irving and then vetoing the trade. Oh man I hope this happens just for the hilarity of it.
  • NeGgaPlEaSe
    NeGgaPlEaSe Member Posts: 5,763
    They want Klay
  • Gladstone
    Gladstone Member Posts: 16,419
    danny ainge getting fucked hard on this deal. i hope it doesn't go through, IT has an amazing season, and danny pays him max money
  • Tequilla
    Tequilla Member Posts: 20,102
    Gladstone said:

    danny ainge getting fucked hard on this deal. i hope it doesn't go through, IT has an amazing season, and danny pays him max money

    You are never winning a title w IT getting a max deal on your team
  • dnc
    dnc Member Posts: 56,839
    Tequilla said:


    Gladstone said:

    danny ainge getting fucked hard on this deal. i hope it doesn't go through, IT has an amazing season, and danny pays him max money

    You are never winning a title w IT getting a max deal on your team
    In a league where you can pay three max players, disagree.
  • Tequilla
    Tequilla Member Posts: 20,102
    dnc said:

    Tequilla said:


    Gladstone said:

    danny ainge getting fucked hard on this deal. i hope it doesn't go through, IT has an amazing season, and danny pays him max money

    You are never winning a title w IT getting a max deal on your team
    In a league where you can pay three max players, disagree.
    Disagree ... too much of a defensive liability
  • dnc
    dnc Member Posts: 56,839
    Boston throws in a second rounder and the deal is done.
  • allpurpleallgold
    allpurpleallgold Member Posts: 8,771

    dnc said:

    So I was listening to an NBA podcast and had to turn it off because this doofus was talking about how Kyrie and the Brooklyn pick have the same value. Is that what you guys think? Do you know why you want high draft picks? It's so you can draft Kyrie fucking Irving. A pick where you have a chance at getting a Kyrie Irving is not worth the same as the actual player.

    Boston skipped the risk that comes with the draft and skipped the 6 year development process and cashed in for a guy that's their now.

    The Warriors are a great defensive team and they could not stop Kyrie. Is that draft pick going to be unstoppable against one of the best teams of all time? What are the chances of that? What are the chances you get a player that will be better than Kyrie? Well, let's take a look.

    2016 NBA draft
    1. Ben Simmons- incomplete we have no clue what he is.
    2. Brandon Ingram- never going to be unstoppable against one the best teams of all time.
    3. Jaylon Brown- nope.

    2015
    1. KAT- definitely could be, 4 picks in and this is the first guy we've seen play with a chance to be better than Kyrie.
    2. De'Angelo Russell- gtfo
    3. Jahlil Okafor- I said get the fuck out.

    2014
    1. Andrew Wiggins- nice player but no.
    2. Jabari Parker- had a lot of injuries but no one is expecting him to be better than Kyrie at this point.
    3. Joel Embiid- ok even with the injuries I wouldn't trade Embiid for Kyrie but he still will most likely never realize his potential. I'll give a win on this one though.

    2013
    1. Anthony Bennett
    2. Victor Oladipo
    3. Otto Porter
    Lol

    2012
    1. Anthony Davis- ok he's better.
    2. Michael Kidd-Gilchrist- fuck no
    3. Bradley Beal- very good player but you're high if you're taking him over Kyrie.

    Those are the 5 drafts since Kyrie was drafted. I'd take 3 guys right now over Kyrie out of 15. And I'm being nice and only counting top 3 picks which is not guaranteed from that pick.

    They traded IT for a younger better version and avoided having to pay Thomas into his 30's and it cost them a draft pick which will most likely not be as good as Kyrie. Crowder is just a guy. This is dumb.

    Sincerely,
    Tequila

    I don't think the pick is as valuable as Kyrie.

    I don't think IT is as valuable as Kyrie.

    I think IT plus the pick would have been a great haul for Kyrie if he still wanted to be in Cleveland. For a guy who doesn't want to be in Cleveland anymore it's an amazing haul. Getting them plus Crowder plus unknown big Euro dude is a ridiculous return for Cleveland.

    And your analysis is pretty good but I'd take Wiggins over Kyrie. Very good offense plus great defense > Great offense and shit defense.

    And Kyrie hasn't shown that level of unstoppability against anybody else and certainly hasn't shown it when he's not playing alongside LeBron. If I thought Kyrie was as good as he's looked against GS I'd agree with you on this deal. I don't.
    We have very different evaluations on Irving if you think Wiggins is even close.

    I've got Lebron, Steph, Draymond, Kawhi, Harden, Russ and Giannis as players better than Kyrie. That's it.
    Bump.
  • dnc
    dnc Member Posts: 56,839

    dnc said:

    So I was listening to an NBA podcast and had to turn it off because this doofus was talking about how Kyrie and the Brooklyn pick have the same value. Is that what you guys think? Do you know why you want high draft picks? It's so you can draft Kyrie fucking Irving. A pick where you have a chance at getting a Kyrie Irving is not worth the same as the actual player.

    Boston skipped the risk that comes with the draft and skipped the 6 year development process and cashed in for a guy that's their now.

    The Warriors are a great defensive team and they could not stop Kyrie. Is that draft pick going to be unstoppable against one of the best teams of all time? What are the chances of that? What are the chances you get a player that will be better than Kyrie? Well, let's take a look.

    2016 NBA draft
    1. Ben Simmons- incomplete we have no clue what he is.
    2. Brandon Ingram- never going to be unstoppable against one the best teams of all time.
    3. Jaylon Brown- nope.

    2015
    1. KAT- definitely could be, 4 picks in and this is the first guy we've seen play with a chance to be better than Kyrie.
    2. De'Angelo Russell- gtfo
    3. Jahlil Okafor- I said get the fuck out.

    2014
    1. Andrew Wiggins- nice player but no.
    2. Jabari Parker- had a lot of injuries but no one is expecting him to be better than Kyrie at this point.
    3. Joel Embiid- ok even with the injuries I wouldn't trade Embiid for Kyrie but he still will most likely never realize his potential. I'll give a win on this one though.

    2013
    1. Anthony Bennett
    2. Victor Oladipo
    3. Otto Porter
    Lol

    2012
    1. Anthony Davis- ok he's better.
    2. Michael Kidd-Gilchrist- fuck no
    3. Bradley Beal- very good player but you're high if you're taking him over Kyrie.

    Those are the 5 drafts since Kyrie was drafted. I'd take 3 guys right now over Kyrie out of 15. And I'm being nice and only counting top 3 picks which is not guaranteed from that pick.

    They traded IT for a younger better version and avoided having to pay Thomas into his 30's and it cost them a draft pick which will most likely not be as good as Kyrie. Crowder is just a guy. This is dumb.

    Sincerely,
    Tequila

    I don't think the pick is as valuable as Kyrie.

    I don't think IT is as valuable as Kyrie.

    I think IT plus the pick would have been a great haul for Kyrie if he still wanted to be in Cleveland. For a guy who doesn't want to be in Cleveland anymore it's an amazing haul. Getting them plus Crowder plus unknown big Euro dude is a ridiculous return for Cleveland.

    And your analysis is pretty good but I'd take Wiggins over Kyrie. Very good offense plus great defense > Great offense and shit defense.

    And Kyrie hasn't shown that level of unstoppability against anybody else and certainly hasn't shown it when he's not playing alongside LeBron. If I thought Kyrie was as good as he's looked against GS I'd agree with you on this deal. I don't.
    We have very different evaluations on Irving if you think Wiggins is even close.

    I've got Lebron, Steph, Draymond, Kawhi, Harden, Russ and Giannis as players better than Kyrie. That's it.
    Bump.
    I've thought about this thread a few times this year. Big ups to you. I didn't think Stevens could get Kyrie to sell out on the defensive end. If this keeps up (and I'm starting to think it will), this call will look brilliant.

    Well done.
  • RoadDawg55
    RoadDawg55 Member Posts: 30,144
    Cavs still easily win in the playoffs.
  • dnc
    dnc Member Posts: 56,839

    Cavs still easily win in the playoffs.

    Agree and I'm sure APAG will as well.

    A healthy white boy and it could have been a series though IMO.
  • RaceBannon
    RaceBannon Member, Moderator, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 114,099 Founders Club
    That's what pissed me off. Irving won't get Boston where they want to go and Cleveland has a 2% win chance against the Warriors without him
  • NEsnake12
    NEsnake12 Member Posts: 3,795

    dnc said:

    So I was listening to an NBA podcast and had to turn it off because this doofus was talking about how Kyrie and the Brooklyn pick have the same value. Is that what you guys think? Do you know why you want high draft picks? It's so you can draft Kyrie fucking Irving. A pick where you have a chance at getting a Kyrie Irving is not worth the same as the actual player.

    Boston skipped the risk that comes with the draft and skipped the 6 year development process and cashed in for a guy that's their now.

    The Warriors are a great defensive team and they could not stop Kyrie. Is that draft pick going to be unstoppable against one of the best teams of all time? What are the chances of that? What are the chances you get a player that will be better than Kyrie? Well, let's take a look.

    2016 NBA draft
    1. Ben Simmons- incomplete we have no clue what he is.
    2. Brandon Ingram- never going to be unstoppable against one the best teams of all time.
    3. Jaylon Brown- nope.

    2015
    1. KAT- definitely could be, 4 picks in and this is the first guy we've seen play with a chance to be better than Kyrie.
    2. De'Angelo Russell- gtfo
    3. Jahlil Okafor- I said get the fuck out.

    2014
    1. Andrew Wiggins- nice player but no.
    2. Jabari Parker- had a lot of injuries but no one is expecting him to be better than Kyrie at this point.
    3. Joel Embiid- ok even with the injuries I wouldn't trade Embiid for Kyrie but he still will most likely never realize his potential. I'll give a win on this one though.

    2013
    1. Anthony Bennett
    2. Victor Oladipo
    3. Otto Porter
    Lol

    2012
    1. Anthony Davis- ok he's better.
    2. Michael Kidd-Gilchrist- fuck no
    3. Bradley Beal- very good player but you're high if you're taking him over Kyrie.

    Those are the 5 drafts since Kyrie was drafted. I'd take 3 guys right now over Kyrie out of 15. And I'm being nice and only counting top 3 picks which is not guaranteed from that pick.

    They traded IT for a younger better version and avoided having to pay Thomas into his 30's and it cost them a draft pick which will most likely not be as good as Kyrie. Crowder is just a guy. This is dumb.

    Sincerely,
    Tequila

    I don't think the pick is as valuable as Kyrie.

    I don't think IT is as valuable as Kyrie.

    I think IT plus the pick would have been a great haul for Kyrie if he still wanted to be in Cleveland. For a guy who doesn't want to be in Cleveland anymore it's an amazing haul. Getting them plus Crowder plus unknown big Euro dude is a ridiculous return for Cleveland.

    And your analysis is pretty good but I'd take Wiggins over Kyrie. Very good offense plus great defense > Great offense and shit defense.

    And Kyrie hasn't shown that level of unstoppability against anybody else and certainly hasn't shown it when he's not playing alongside LeBron. If I thought Kyrie was as good as he's looked against GS I'd agree with you on this deal. I don't.
    We have very different evaluations on Irving if you think Wiggins is even close.

    I've got Lebron, Steph, Draymond, Kawhi, Harden, Russ and Giannis as players better than Kyrie. That's it.
    Bump.
    Interesting to look back at that list, it's a pretty damn accurate list.

    Just based off performances through the first month of the season... I'd definitely take Russ off that list especially with Kyrie's defensive improvement. Russ is just too inefficient of a shooter for how many attempts he takes per game, and has over twice the turnovers per game as Kyrie. And his team isn't winning.

    Also might have to start considering Porzingis for that list IF he keeps improving the way he has been. Maybe not yet but if he's still playing that good at the all star break I'd put him on there.
  • RoadDawg55
    RoadDawg55 Member Posts: 30,144
    NEsnake12 said:

    dnc said:

    So I was listening to an NBA podcast and had to turn it off because this doofus was talking about how Kyrie and the Brooklyn pick have the same value. Is that what you guys think? Do you know why you want high draft picks? It's so you can draft Kyrie fucking Irving. A pick where you have a chance at getting a Kyrie Irving is not worth the same as the actual player.

    Boston skipped the risk that comes with the draft and skipped the 6 year development process and cashed in for a guy that's their now.

    The Warriors are a great defensive team and they could not stop Kyrie. Is that draft pick going to be unstoppable against one of the best teams of all time? What are the chances of that? What are the chances you get a player that will be better than Kyrie? Well, let's take a look.

    2016 NBA draft
    1. Ben Simmons- incomplete we have no clue what he is.
    2. Brandon Ingram- never going to be unstoppable against one the best teams of all time.
    3. Jaylon Brown- nope.

    2015
    1. KAT- definitely could be, 4 picks in and this is the first guy we've seen play with a chance to be better than Kyrie.
    2. De'Angelo Russell- gtfo
    3. Jahlil Okafor- I said get the fuck out.

    2014
    1. Andrew Wiggins- nice player but no.
    2. Jabari Parker- had a lot of injuries but no one is expecting him to be better than Kyrie at this point.
    3. Joel Embiid- ok even with the injuries I wouldn't trade Embiid for Kyrie but he still will most likely never realize his potential. I'll give a win on this one though.

    2013
    1. Anthony Bennett
    2. Victor Oladipo
    3. Otto Porter
    Lol

    2012
    1. Anthony Davis- ok he's better.
    2. Michael Kidd-Gilchrist- fuck no
    3. Bradley Beal- very good player but you're high if you're taking him over Kyrie.

    Those are the 5 drafts since Kyrie was drafted. I'd take 3 guys right now over Kyrie out of 15. And I'm being nice and only counting top 3 picks which is not guaranteed from that pick.

    They traded IT for a younger better version and avoided having to pay Thomas into his 30's and it cost them a draft pick which will most likely not be as good as Kyrie. Crowder is just a guy. This is dumb.

    Sincerely,
    Tequila

    I don't think the pick is as valuable as Kyrie.

    I don't think IT is as valuable as Kyrie.

    I think IT plus the pick would have been a great haul for Kyrie if he still wanted to be in Cleveland. For a guy who doesn't want to be in Cleveland anymore it's an amazing haul. Getting them plus Crowder plus unknown big Euro dude is a ridiculous return for Cleveland.

    And your analysis is pretty good but I'd take Wiggins over Kyrie. Very good offense plus great defense > Great offense and shit defense.

    And Kyrie hasn't shown that level of unstoppability against anybody else and certainly hasn't shown it when he's not playing alongside LeBron. If I thought Kyrie was as good as he's looked against GS I'd agree with you on this deal. I don't.
    We have very different evaluations on Irving if you think Wiggins is even close.

    I've got Lebron, Steph, Draymond, Kawhi, Harden, Russ and Giannis as players better than Kyrie. That's it.
    Bump.
    Interesting to look back at that list, it's a pretty damn accurate list.

    Just based off performances through the first month of the season... I'd definitely take Russ off that list especially with Kyrie's defensive improvement. Russ is just too inefficient of a shooter for how many attempts he takes per game, and has over twice the turnovers per game as Kyrie. And his team isn't winning.

    Also might have to start considering Porzingis for that list IF he keeps improving the way he has been. Maybe not yet but if he's still playing that good at the all star break I'd put him on there.
    By the end of the year, the Thunder will be much better than they were last year. It’s November. If they are still struggling in March, I would agree with you.
  • RoadDawg55
    RoadDawg55 Member Posts: 30,144

    That's what pissed me off. Irving won't get Boston where they want to go and Cleveland has a 2% win chance against the Warriors without him

    The injury makes it iffy, but Isaiah averaged 29 for a one seed and scored 50 on John Wall in the playoffs. He’s going to help a lot if he recovers. He’s a winner.

    I agree that the Cavs have a 2% chance of beating the Warriors. They had about a 10% chance with Kyrie. I don’t think it’s much of a difference.