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Cavaliers and Celtics discussing a deal involving Kyrie Irving, Isaiah Thomas, Crowder and Ante Ziz
Gladstone
Member Posts: 16,419
Apparently the deal is done
The Celtics and Cavs have reportedly engaged in "finalized" discussions regarding a trade that would send Kyrie Irving to Boston in a package that would include Isaiah Thomas and draft picks.
The teams are still fine tuning the deal, but initial reports indicate that Jae Crowder and Ante Zizic would also be included in the package that Boston would send to Cleveland in exchange for Irving. In terms of fantasy hoops, Thomas wouldn't be quite the same usage monster he was with the Celtics as a member of the Cavs, and Derrick Rose would somewhat complicate the equation, so he'd likely see a slight dip in value in Cleveland. Crowder might not even start with the Cavs, so his value would take a fairly large hit.
The Celtics and Cavs have reportedly engaged in "finalized" discussions regarding a trade that would send Kyrie Irving to Boston in a package that would include Isaiah Thomas and draft picks.
The teams are still fine tuning the deal, but initial reports indicate that Jae Crowder and Ante Zizic would also be included in the package that Boston would send to Cleveland in exchange for Irving. In terms of fantasy hoops, Thomas wouldn't be quite the same usage monster he was with the Celtics as a member of the Cavs, and Derrick Rose would somewhat complicate the equation, so he'd likely see a slight dip in value in Cleveland. Crowder might not even start with the Cavs, so his value would take a fairly large hit.
Comments
Irving isn't worth all that.
I understand Cleveland needing to have something when he goes but that's a fucking stupid trade
Clevelands only chance at winning the title was if the Warriors lose Draymond, Steph or Durant to injury. I think this team is still good enough to beat the Warriors with an injury. And if it doesn't work out and Lebron bolts they get a nice pick.
Boston gets one of the 5 best offensive players in the league, Kyrie finally gets a good coach and he doesn't have to carry the team which is what he hasn't proven he can do.
I don't think he's without his warts though. He's a ball dominant PG who doesn't especially make his teammates better and thinks he's too good to play defense.
He could be a great player (definitely a higher upside than IT), I'm not sure he's willing to become one though.
Crowder will help a lot. The Cavs needed 3 and D swingmen to have a prayer against the Warriors.
Boston just turned over half their team this offseason. IT, Bradley, Crowder, and Olynyk.
The Cavs got way too much for Kyrie. And if it doesn't work, they will have a top 3 pick to start the rebuild.
Cavs won this trade rather easily.
So it's much smarter for the Celtics to invest in a future built around Kyrie, Hayward, and Tatum than it is to build with IT as part of that core. The Brooklyn pick could turn into an amazing player, but the Celtics still own 4 other team's 1st round picks between the 2018/19 drafts... it's not like they're giving up their entire future by trading that one (albeit good) pick.
From Cavs perspective... probably the best possible return they could get for Kyrie. With LeBron likely gone after next season, they get both good talent in return and a building block for life after LeBron. IT's offensive skillset is exactly the kind that complements LeBron well, and Crowder is an upgrade over a lot of the Cavs other role players like Shumpert.
Boston skipped the risk that comes with the draft and skipped the 6 year development process and cashed in for a guy that's their now.
The Warriors are a great defensive team and they could not stop Kyrie. Is that draft pick going to be unstoppable against one of the best teams of all time? What are the chances of that? What are the chances you get a player that will be better than Kyrie? Well, let's take a look.
2016 NBA draft
1. Ben Simmons- incomplete we have no clue what he is.
2. Brandon Ingram- never going to be unstoppable against one the best teams of all time.
3. Jaylon Brown- nope.
2015
1. KAT- definitely could be, 4 picks in and this is the first guy we've seen play with a chance to be better than Kyrie.
2. De'Angelo Russell- gtfo
3. Jahlil Okafor- I said get the fuck out.
2014
1. Andrew Wiggins- nice player but no.
2. Jabari Parker- had a lot of injuries but no one is expecting him to be better than Kyrie at this point.
3. Joel Embiid- ok even with the injuries I wouldn't trade Embiid for Kyrie but he still will most likely never realize his potential. I'll give a win on this one though.
2013
1. Anthony Bennett
2. Victor Oladipo
3. Otto Porter
Lol
2012
1. Anthony Davis- ok he's better.
2. Michael Kidd-Gilchrist- fuck no
3. Bradley Beal- very good player but you're high if you're taking him over Kyrie.
Those are the 5 drafts since Kyrie was drafted. I'd take 3 guys right now over Kyrie out of 15. And I'm being nice and only counting top 3 picks which is not guaranteed from that pick.
They traded IT for a younger better version and avoided having to pay Thomas into his 30's and it cost them a draft pick which will most likely not be as good as Kyrie. Crowder is just a guy. This is dumb.
Sincerely,
Tequila
I don't think IT is as valuable as Kyrie.
I think IT plus the pick would have been a great haul for Kyrie if he still wanted to be in Cleveland. For a guy who doesn't want to be in Cleveland anymore it's an amazing haul. Getting them plus Crowder plus unknown big Euro dude is a ridiculous return for Cleveland.
And your analysis is pretty good but I'd take Wiggins over Kyrie. Very good offense plus great defense > Great offense and shit defense.
And Kyrie hasn't shown that level of unstoppability against anybody else and certainly hasn't shown it when he's not playing alongside LeBron. If I thought Kyrie was as good as he's looked against GS I'd agree with you on this deal. I don't.