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President Snowflake

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  • AZDuck
    AZDuck Member Posts: 15,381

    phineas said:

    All I've learned in 5 months is that it is an American right, freedom and expectation to hate russians, no matter what. But I already knew that

    Has not always been that way. For Democrats. This tuff on Russia thing is very ironic to those of us WHO WERE THERE
    Вы были в России, товарищ?
  • AZDuck
    AZDuck Member Posts: 15,381
    edited May 2017
    Sledog said:

    AZDuck said:

    Sledog said:

    2001400ex said:

    Sledog said:

    AZDuck said:

    Actually in America the reasonable assumption is innocent until proven guilty or at least until there is more than nothing but hot air by political opponents.

    Trump can defend himself all he wants regardless of the birther thing or anything else. And he is going to.

    If you can't see the difference in how the media treats him I can't help you.

    the media is not his problem

    I'm glad to hear that you want to give your guy the benefit of the doubt. Since innocence until proven guilty is important to you I'm sure you have always applied that standard to Hillary and Obama, right?
    Hillary did in fact send classified information via her private email server. She requested her aid Huma to remove classified headings from emails and to send them out. Her emails were also sent to Weiners computers. This is a federal felony. People go to jail for it. Comey gave her a pass.

    Their has been absolutely nothing in the way of evidence or findings of any kind indicating trump has done anything illegal. Nothing. The media is calling for impeachment. No double standards here!

    Sending an email of a weiner could be a felony. Sending an email to Weiner isn't a felony.

    HTH
    It most certainly is my maroonic friend. Secret is secret. Their pain's a comin'!
    Hi. I've got a two word question for ya. Ready?

    Mens rea?
    I have a one word answer. Ready?

    Training.

    They were all trained, and signed off on that training, to recognize classified material even if it was not marked. Including what systems and means it can be communicated by. The act of doing it is : ready? Prime Facie evidence. it's quite obvious they intended to as Hillary set up her own server and instructed Huma in an email to strip the classified headings prior to sending classified documents out. Sure sounds like intent. Oh and last I checked Anthony Wiener doesn't have clearance.

    Hope this helps:.

    Prima facie. Latin for "at first sight." Prima facie may be used as an adjective meaning "sufficient to establish a fact or raise a presumption unless disproved or rebutted;" e.g., prima facie evidence
    Prima facie evidence only prevents summary judgment before trial. You have to do better than that to actually prevail at trial. Prima facie evidence, without more, will get your case dismissed at the close of the prosecution's case.

    I don't think anyone disputes that the intelligence leakage happened on Killary's watch at State, and that her carelessness was responsible. "Mens rea" gets to her knowingly leaking the classified data. Huma Abedin stated that she did not realize that her computer was saving documents to "the cloud" on her home network which resulted in Weiner's sexting laptop containing Huma's email PST. Weiner was not aware that it was accessible from his machine either. So, without knowledge (mens rea) or intent, a prosecution would founder.

    U.S. law does not criminalize classified information, only national defense information. Congress has repeatedly resisted or failed to make the disclosing of classified information illegal, in and of itself. Instead, Congress has strictly limited which sort of classified information is illegal, and under which specific circumstances it is illegal.

    Lots of people get "read on" to classified programs. National defense stuff is different than foreign relations and diplomatic stuff. There is some overlap at State, so one would need to look at the particular programs in question. I don't know, since I haven't read the files in question.

    Another issue is whether Killary was a classification authority for the information that was released. Just as the President can de-classify anything at will, classification authorities also have broad authority to de-classify certain information generated within their Departments.

    So, like most prosecutions, the biggest rock in the proverbial rucksack would be to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Killary possessed criminal intent to disclose national defense information. There's the mens rea again.

    Comey's analysis was that "no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case." As a guy who was the US Attorney for the S.D.N.Y. (i.e. Manhattan) and the Assistant Attorney General for the Bush II administration, seems like he's got the right kind of background to make that call.
  • Sledog
    Sledog Member Posts: 38,561 Standard Supporter
    AZDuck said:

    Sledog said:

    AZDuck said:

    Sledog said:

    2001400ex said:

    Sledog said:

    AZDuck said:

    Actually in America the reasonable assumption is innocent until proven guilty or at least until there is more than nothing but hot air by political opponents.

    Trump can defend himself all he wants regardless of the birther thing or anything else. And he is going to.

    If you can't see the difference in how the media treats him I can't help you.

    the media is not his problem

    I'm glad to hear that you want to give your guy the benefit of the doubt. Since innocence until proven guilty is important to you I'm sure you have always applied that standard to Hillary and Obama, right?
    Hillary did in fact send classified information via her private email server. She requested her aid Huma to remove classified headings from emails and to send them out. Her emails were also sent to Weiners computers. This is a federal felony. People go to jail for it. Comey gave her a pass.

    Their has been absolutely nothing in the way of evidence or findings of any kind indicating trump has done anything illegal. Nothing. The media is calling for impeachment. No double standards here!

    Sending an email of a weiner could be a felony. Sending an email to Weiner isn't a felony.

    HTH
    It most certainly is my maroonic friend. Secret is secret. Their pain's a comin'!
    Hi. I've got a two word question for ya. Ready?

    Mens rea?
    I have a one word answer. Ready?

    Training.

    They were all trained, and signed off on that training, to recognize classified material even if it was not marked. Including what systems and means it can be communicated by. The act of doing it is : ready? Prime Facie evidence. it's quite obvious they intended to as Hillary set up her own server and instructed Huma in an email to strip the classified headings prior to sending classified documents out. Sure sounds like intent. Oh and last I checked Anthony Wiener doesn't have clearance.

    Hope this helps:.

    Prima facie. Latin for "at first sight." Prima facie may be used as an adjective meaning "sufficient to establish a fact or raise a presumption unless disproved or rebutted;" e.g., prima facie evidence
    Prima facie evidence only prevents summary judgment before trial. You have to do better than that to actually prevail at trial. Prima facie evidence, without more, will get your case dismissed at the close of the prosecution's case.

    I don't think anyone disputes that the intelligence leakage happened on Killary's watch at State, and that her carelessness was responsible. "Mens rea" gets to her knowingly leaking the classified data. Huma Abedin stated that she did not realize that her computer was saving documents to "the cloud" on her home network which resulted in Weiner's sexting laptop containing Huma's email PST. Weiner was not aware that it was accessible from his machine either. So, without knowledge (mens rea) or intent, a prosecution would founder.

    U.S. law does not criminalize classified information, only national defense information. Congress has repeatedly resisted or failed to make the disclosing of classified information illegal, in and of itself. Instead, Congress has strictly limited which sort of classified information is illegal, and under which specific circumstances it is illegal.

    Lots of people get "read on" to classified programs. National defense stuff is different than foreign relations and diplomatic stuff. There is some overlap at State, so one would need to look at the particular programs in question. I don't know, since I haven't read the files in question.

    Another issue is whether Killary was a classification authority for the information that was released. Just as the President can de-classify anything at will, classification authorities also have broad authority to de-classify certain information generated within their Departments.

    So, like most prosecutions, the biggest rock in the proverbial rucksack would be to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Killary possessed criminal intent to disclose national defense information. There's the mens rea again.

    Comey's analysis was that "no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case." As a guy who was the US Attorney for the S.D.N.Y. (i.e. Manhattan) and the Assistant Attorney General for the Bush II administration, seems like he's got the right kind of background to make that call.
    It is not Comey's place to decide prosecution. That's where this gets really stinky. Prosecutors always decide whether or not to prosecute. Law enforcement submits the evidence to the prosecutor and then a decision is made. Comey was way outside the norm. Plenty of evidence to be bound over for trial. Comey himself said classified information was transmitted and wound up in large numbers of email chains. Hillary didn't want to be bothered with having to look at the information on the proper systems and requested it be sent out via unsecured means to her server which was hacked multiple times by foreign powers. That's intent.
  • AZDuck
    AZDuck Member Posts: 15,381
    Sledog said:

    AZDuck said:

    Sledog said:

    AZDuck said:

    Sledog said:

    2001400ex said:

    Sledog said:

    AZDuck said:

    Actually in America the reasonable assumption is innocent until proven guilty or at least until there is more than nothing but hot air by political opponents.

    Trump can defend himself all he wants regardless of the birther thing or anything else. And he is going to.

    If you can't see the difference in how the media treats him I can't help you.

    the media is not his problem

    I'm glad to hear that you want to give your guy the benefit of the doubt. Since innocence until proven guilty is important to you I'm sure you have always applied that standard to Hillary and Obama, right?
    Hillary did in fact send classified information via her private email server. She requested her aid Huma to remove classified headings from emails and to send them out. Her emails were also sent to Weiners computers. This is a federal felony. People go to jail for it. Comey gave her a pass.

    Their has been absolutely nothing in the way of evidence or findings of any kind indicating trump has done anything illegal. Nothing. The media is calling for impeachment. No double standards here!

    Sending an email of a weiner could be a felony. Sending an email to Weiner isn't a felony.

    HTH
    It most certainly is my maroonic friend. Secret is secret. Their pain's a comin'!
    Hi. I've got a two word question for ya. Ready?

    Mens rea?
    I have a one word answer. Ready?

    Training.

    They were all trained, and signed off on that training, to recognize classified material even if it was not marked. Including what systems and means it can be communicated by. The act of doing it is : ready? Prime Facie evidence. it's quite obvious they intended to as Hillary set up her own server and instructed Huma in an email to strip the classified headings prior to sending classified documents out. Sure sounds like intent. Oh and last I checked Anthony Wiener doesn't have clearance.

    Hope this helps:.

    Prima facie. Latin for "at first sight." Prima facie may be used as an adjective meaning "sufficient to establish a fact or raise a presumption unless disproved or rebutted;" e.g., prima facie evidence
    Prima facie evidence only prevents summary judgment before trial. You have to do better than that to actually prevail at trial. Prima facie evidence, without more, will get your case dismissed at the close of the prosecution's case.

    I don't think anyone disputes that the intelligence leakage happened on Killary's watch at State, and that her carelessness was responsible. "Mens rea" gets to her knowingly leaking the classified data. Huma Abedin stated that she did not realize that her computer was saving documents to "the cloud" on her home network which resulted in Weiner's sexting laptop containing Huma's email PST. Weiner was not aware that it was accessible from his machine either. So, without knowledge (mens rea) or intent, a prosecution would founder.

    U.S. law does not criminalize classified information, only national defense information. Congress has repeatedly resisted or failed to make the disclosing of classified information illegal, in and of itself. Instead, Congress has strictly limited which sort of classified information is illegal, and under which specific circumstances it is illegal.

    Lots of people get "read on" to classified programs. National defense stuff is different than foreign relations and diplomatic stuff. There is some overlap at State, so one would need to look at the particular programs in question. I don't know, since I haven't read the files in question.

    Another issue is whether Killary was a classification authority for the information that was released. Just as the President can de-classify anything at will, classification authorities also have broad authority to de-classify certain information generated within their Departments.

    So, like most prosecutions, the biggest rock in the proverbial rucksack would be to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Killary possessed criminal intent to disclose national defense information. There's the mens rea again.

    Comey's analysis was that "no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case." As a guy who was the US Attorney for the S.D.N.Y. (i.e. Manhattan) and the Assistant Attorney General for the Bush II administration, seems like he's got the right kind of background to make that call.
    It is not Comey's place to decide prosecution. That's where this gets really stinky. Prosecutors always decide whether or not to prosecute. Law enforcement submits the evidence to the prosecutor and then a decision is made. Comey was way outside the norm. Plenty of evidence to be bound over for trial. Comey himself said classified information was transmitted and wound up in large numbers of email chains. Hillary didn't want to be bothered with having to look at the information on the proper systems and requested it be sent out via unsecured means to her server which was hacked multiple times by foreign powers. That's intent.
    You're right about the pros-non-pros decision. The decision to prosecute or not was made the DoJ. Comey was right that this would be a tough case to prove up - and he has the background to make that recommendation.
  • AZDuck
    AZDuck Member Posts: 15,381
    The gift that keeps on giving
    WASHINGTON — President Trump told Russian officials in the Oval Office this month that firing the F.B.I. director, James B. Comey, had relieved “great pressure” on him, according to a document summarizing the meeting.

    “I just fired the head of the F.B.I. He was crazy, a real nut job,” Mr. Trump said, according to the document, which was read to The New York Times by an American official. “I faced great pressure because of Russia. That’s taken off.”

    Mr. Trump added, “I’m not under investigation.”

    The conversation, during a May 10 meeting — the day after he fired Mr. Comey — reinforces the notion that Mr. Trump dismissed him primarily because of the bureau’s investigation into possible collusion between his campaign and Russian operatives. Mr. Trump said as much in one televised interview, but the White House has offered changing justifications for the firing.

    The White House document that contained Mr. Trump’s comments was based on notes taken from inside the Oval Office and has been circulated as the official account of the meeting. One official read quotations to The Times, and a second official confirmed the broad outlines of the discussion.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/19/us/politics/trump-russia-comey.html

  • 2001400ex
    2001400ex Member Posts: 29,457
    AZDuck said:

    The gift that keeps on giving

    WASHINGTON — President Trump told Russian officials in the Oval Office this month that firing the F.B.I. director, James B. Comey, had relieved “great pressure” on him, according to a document summarizing the meeting.

    “I just fired the head of the F.B.I. He was crazy, a real nut job,” Mr. Trump said, according to the document, which was read to The New York Times by an American official. “I faced great pressure because of Russia. That’s taken off.”

    Mr. Trump added, “I’m not under investigation.”

    The conversation, during a May 10 meeting — the day after he fired Mr. Comey — reinforces the notion that Mr. Trump dismissed him primarily because of the bureau’s investigation into possible collusion between his campaign and Russian operatives. Mr. Trump said as much in one televised interview, but the White House has offered changing justifications for the firing.

    The White House document that contained Mr. Trump’s comments was based on notes taken from inside the Oval Office and has been circulated as the official account of the meeting. One official read quotations to The Times, and a second official confirmed the broad outlines of the discussion.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/19/us/politics/trump-russia-comey.html



    The real issue is the person leaking this true information
  • dnc
    dnc Member Posts: 56,855
    This thread should be deleted with that title.

    Would you call Obama President N Word?

    Didn't think so.
  • Sledog
    Sledog Member Posts: 38,561 Standard Supporter

    Sledog said:

    AZDuck said:

    Sledog said:

    AZDuck said:

    Sledog said:

    2001400ex said:

    Sledog said:

    AZDuck said:

    Actually in America the reasonable assumption is innocent until proven guilty or at least until there is more than nothing but hot air by political opponents.

    Trump can defend himself all he wants regardless of the birther thing or anything else. And he is going to.

    If you can't see the difference in how the media treats him I can't help you.

    the media is not his problem

    I'm glad to hear that you want to give your guy the benefit of the doubt. Since innocence until proven guilty is important to you I'm sure you have always applied that standard to Hillary and Obama, right?
    Hillary did in fact send classified information via her private email server. She requested her aid Huma to remove classified headings from emails and to send them out. Her emails were also sent to Weiners computers. This is a federal felony. People go to jail for it. Comey gave her a pass.

    Their has been absolutely nothing in the way of evidence or findings of any kind indicating trump has done anything illegal. Nothing. The media is calling for impeachment. No double standards here!

    Sending an email of a weiner could be a felony. Sending an email to Weiner isn't a felony.

    HTH
    It most certainly is my maroonic friend. Secret is secret. Their pain's a comin'!
    Hi. I've got a two word question for ya. Ready?

    Mens rea?
    I have a one word answer. Ready?

    Training.

    They were all trained, and signed off on that training, to recognize classified material even if it was not marked. Including what systems and means it can be communicated by. The act of doing it is : ready? Prime Facie evidence. it's quite obvious they intended to as Hillary set up her own server and instructed Huma in an email to strip the classified headings prior to sending classified documents out. Sure sounds like intent. Oh and last I checked Anthony Wiener doesn't have clearance.

    Hope this helps:.

    Prima facie. Latin for "at first sight." Prima facie may be used as an adjective meaning "sufficient to establish a fact or raise a presumption unless disproved or rebutted;" e.g., prima facie evidence
    Prima facie evidence only prevents summary judgment before trial. You have to do better than that to actually prevail at trial. Prima facie evidence, without more, will get your case dismissed at the close of the prosecution's case.

    I don't think anyone disputes that the intelligence leakage happened on Killary's watch at State, and that her carelessness was responsible. "Mens rea" gets to her knowingly leaking the classified data. Huma Abedin stated that she did not realize that her computer was saving documents to "the cloud" on her home network which resulted in Weiner's sexting laptop containing Huma's email PST. Weiner was not aware that it was accessible from his machine either. So, without knowledge (mens rea) or intent, a prosecution would founder.

    U.S. law does not criminalize classified information, only national defense information. Congress has repeatedly resisted or failed to make the disclosing of classified information illegal, in and of itself. Instead, Congress has strictly limited which sort of classified information is illegal, and under which specific circumstances it is illegal.

    Lots of people get "read on" to classified programs. National defense stuff is different than foreign relations and diplomatic stuff. There is some overlap at State, so one would need to look at the particular programs in question. I don't know, since I haven't read the files in question.

    Another issue is whether Killary was a classification authority for the information that was released. Just as the President can de-classify anything at will, classification authorities also have broad authority to de-classify certain information generated within their Departments.

    So, like most prosecutions, the biggest rock in the proverbial rucksack would be to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Killary possessed criminal intent to disclose national defense information. There's the mens rea again.

    Comey's analysis was that "no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case." As a guy who was the US Attorney for the S.D.N.Y. (i.e. Manhattan) and the Assistant Attorney General for the Bush II administration, seems like he's got the right kind of background to make that call.
    It is not Comey's place to decide prosecution. That's where this gets really stinky. Prosecutors always decide whether or not to prosecute. Law enforcement submits the evidence to the prosecutor and then a decision is made. Comey was way outside the norm. Plenty of evidence to be bound over for trial. Comey himself said classified information was transmitted and wound up in large numbers of email chains. Hillary didn't want to be bothered with having to look at the information on the proper systems and requested it be sent out via unsecured means to her server which was hacked multiple times by foreign powers. That's intent.
    This is the most lucid post you've ever made.
    Mostly I'm just having fun.
  • dnc
    dnc Member Posts: 56,855
    Sledog said:

    Sledog said:

    AZDuck said:

    Sledog said:

    AZDuck said:

    Sledog said:

    2001400ex said:

    Sledog said:

    AZDuck said:

    Actually in America the reasonable assumption is innocent until proven guilty or at least until there is more than nothing but hot air by political opponents.

    Trump can defend himself all he wants regardless of the birther thing or anything else. And he is going to.

    If you can't see the difference in how the media treats him I can't help you.

    the media is not his problem

    I'm glad to hear that you want to give your guy the benefit of the doubt. Since innocence until proven guilty is important to you I'm sure you have always applied that standard to Hillary and Obama, right?
    Hillary did in fact send classified information via her private email server. She requested her aid Huma to remove classified headings from emails and to send them out. Her emails were also sent to Weiners computers. This is a federal felony. People go to jail for it. Comey gave her a pass.

    Their has been absolutely nothing in the way of evidence or findings of any kind indicating trump has done anything illegal. Nothing. The media is calling for impeachment. No double standards here!

    Sending an email of a weiner could be a felony. Sending an email to Weiner isn't a felony.

    HTH
    It most certainly is my maroonic friend. Secret is secret. Their pain's a comin'!
    Hi. I've got a two word question for ya. Ready?

    Mens rea?
    I have a one word answer. Ready?

    Training.

    They were all trained, and signed off on that training, to recognize classified material even if it was not marked. Including what systems and means it can be communicated by. The act of doing it is : ready? Prime Facie evidence. it's quite obvious they intended to as Hillary set up her own server and instructed Huma in an email to strip the classified headings prior to sending classified documents out. Sure sounds like intent. Oh and last I checked Anthony Wiener doesn't have clearance.

    Hope this helps:.

    Prima facie. Latin for "at first sight." Prima facie may be used as an adjective meaning "sufficient to establish a fact or raise a presumption unless disproved or rebutted;" e.g., prima facie evidence
    Prima facie evidence only prevents summary judgment before trial. You have to do better than that to actually prevail at trial. Prima facie evidence, without more, will get your case dismissed at the close of the prosecution's case.

    I don't think anyone disputes that the intelligence leakage happened on Killary's watch at State, and that her carelessness was responsible. "Mens rea" gets to her knowingly leaking the classified data. Huma Abedin stated that she did not realize that her computer was saving documents to "the cloud" on her home network which resulted in Weiner's sexting laptop containing Huma's email PST. Weiner was not aware that it was accessible from his machine either. So, without knowledge (mens rea) or intent, a prosecution would founder.

    U.S. law does not criminalize classified information, only national defense information. Congress has repeatedly resisted or failed to make the disclosing of classified information illegal, in and of itself. Instead, Congress has strictly limited which sort of classified information is illegal, and under which specific circumstances it is illegal.

    Lots of people get "read on" to classified programs. National defense stuff is different than foreign relations and diplomatic stuff. There is some overlap at State, so one would need to look at the particular programs in question. I don't know, since I haven't read the files in question.

    Another issue is whether Killary was a classification authority for the information that was released. Just as the President can de-classify anything at will, classification authorities also have broad authority to de-classify certain information generated within their Departments.

    So, like most prosecutions, the biggest rock in the proverbial rucksack would be to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Killary possessed criminal intent to disclose national defense information. There's the mens rea again.

    Comey's analysis was that "no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case." As a guy who was the US Attorney for the S.D.N.Y. (i.e. Manhattan) and the Assistant Attorney General for the Bush II administration, seems like he's got the right kind of background to make that call.
    It is not Comey's place to decide prosecution. That's where this gets really stinky. Prosecutors always decide whether or not to prosecute. Law enforcement submits the evidence to the prosecutor and then a decision is made. Comey was way outside the norm. Plenty of evidence to be bound over for trial. Comey himself said classified information was transmitted and wound up in large numbers of email chains. Hillary didn't want to be bothered with having to look at the information on the proper systems and requested it be sent out via unsecured means to her server which was hacked multiple times by foreign powers. That's intent.
    This is the most lucid post you've ever made.
    Mostly I'm just having fun.
    Live footage of Sledog having fun.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvT_gqs5ETk