Official Eastern Conference pre season scrimmage thread
Comments
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I know this is hard for you ...RoadDawg55 said:
You're a fucking idiot. Guys who are top 20 players are max contract guys.Tequilla said:I took a lot of heat for saying that IT couldn't be the top player for an elite title contending team ... but he's getting abused on both ends of the court ...
The Celtics window is this year's #1 + next year's #1 + Bradley/Brown + Hayward + ???
If you are Danny Ainge right now there's no way you can pay IT the max ... it'd be a terrible contract
Guys who finish at the top of the scoring charts are max contract guys.
Guys who lead their team to #1 seeds are max contract guys.
But what's a Top 20 player?
Stats wise, IT is a top 20 player.
But if we're judging by building a championship contending team, can you really make the argument that he's a Top 20 player?
If it isn't ridiculously apparent by now, you can make IT a liability on the defensive end of the court (too short) and offensively if you can defend him with size while staying in front of him.
Against the majority of the league, they can't put guys on him that mess him up with size while being able to stay in front of him. Against elite teams though, they can do so. -
He can't win a title if he's the best player on a team. But how many guys are there in the NBA who can? James and Curry for sure. Beyond that Kawhi and Durant are the only two I'd say with any confidence. Maybe Westbrook. Maybe Harden. Maybe Davis or Towns or Giannis eventually.Tequilla said:
I know this is hard for you ...RoadDawg55 said:
You're a fucking idiot. Guys who are top 20 players are max contract guys.Tequilla said:I took a lot of heat for saying that IT couldn't be the top player for an elite title contending team ... but he's getting abused on both ends of the court ...
The Celtics window is this year's #1 + next year's #1 + Bradley/Brown + Hayward + ???
If you are Danny Ainge right now there's no way you can pay IT the max ... it'd be a terrible contract
Guys who finish at the top of the scoring charts are max contract guys.
Guys who lead their team to #1 seeds are max contract guys.
But what's a Top 20 player?
Stats wise, IT is a top 20 player.
But if we're judging by building a championship contending team, can you really make the argument that he's a Top 20 player?
If it isn't ridiculously apparent by now, you can make IT a liability on the defensive end of the court (too short) and offensively if you can defend him with size while staying in front of him.
Against the majority of the league, they can't put guys on him that mess him up with size while being able to stay in front of him. Against elite teams though, they can do so.
IT is absolutely a guy you can win with if he's the 2nd best guy on your team. Which makes him a max guy. -
I totally disagree ...
You can win with him if he's your 6th man off the bench ... but I don't think his skill set works well as the 2nd or 3rd option in a starting rotation. -
You actually posted that you can make him a liability on offense? Before this series nobody has been able to stop him.Tequilla said:
I know this is hard for you ...RoadDawg55 said:
You're a fucking idiot. Guys who are top 20 players are max contract guys.Tequilla said:I took a lot of heat for saying that IT couldn't be the top player for an elite title contending team ... but he's getting abused on both ends of the court ...
The Celtics window is this year's #1 + next year's #1 + Bradley/Brown + Hayward + ???
If you are Danny Ainge right now there's no way you can pay IT the max ... it'd be a terrible contract
Guys who finish at the top of the scoring charts are max contract guys.
Guys who lead their team to #1 seeds are max contract guys.
But what's a Top 20 player?
Stats wise, IT is a top 20 player.
But if we're judging by building a championship contending team, can you really make the argument that he's a Top 20 player?
If it isn't ridiculously apparent by now, you can make IT a liability on the defensive end of the court (too short) and offensively if you can defend him with size while staying in front of him.
Against the majority of the league, they can't put guys on him that mess him up with size while being able to stay in front of him. Against elite teams though, they can do so.
I've seen Curry struggle before. Same for Kyrie Irving, Westbrook, etc. Players struggle sometimes. IT is hurt, and he's probably fucking exhausted.
Between your LeBron criticism and this, you're posting even dumber than you typically do every year it's playoff season. -
Boston won the one seed with him as the number one option. They are in the ECF with him as the number one option. There's no fucking way that makes him a sixth man on a title team.Tequilla said:I totally disagree ...
You can win with him if he's your 6th man off the bench ... but I don't think his skill set works well as the 2nd or 3rd option in a starting rotation.
Seriously dude this might be the worst post I've ever seen on the hoops bored. -
The Celtics won what? 53 games?
That might be the 1 seed this year in the East but that's good for most years a 3 or 4 seed at best.
Offensively, what I meant is that you are starting to see teams try to put a wall around him taking away his shot and then his passing angles.
Teams defend differently in the playoffs versus the regular season ... this is well known.
And IT is a guy that needs to run screen and roll on offense to be effective ... that requires the ball being in his hand. That's better utilized IMO coming off the bench as a 6th man on a really good team.
The fact you disagree with me and think what I'm saying is stupid only further convinces me that the vast majority of hoops observers chase stats as their proof ... stats in hoops only matter so much -
Jesus Christ. Boston would be dreck without IT. They can't score. They can't defend Lebron, same as everyone else.
Fucking speed limit IQ basketball takes. -
Without IT and a reasonable PG replacement they are probably a 45 win team ...haie said:Jesus Christ. Boston would be dreck without IT. They can't score. They can't defend Lebron, same as everyone else.
Fucking speed limit IQ basketball takes.
The only reason they are even in the discussion as a fringe NBA contender and #1 seed in the East right now is that the dominance in the league is consolidated with the Warriors, the Spurs (Leonard), and the Cavs (when LBJ is engaged).
What they are is at, or near the top, of the next level of teams that are pretty good but will never win a NBA title as currently constructed. They are probably similar to the early 2000's Nets teams that were the best of a really bad East and fodder in the NBA Finals or the early to mid 80's Bucks teams that were very good but never elite.
I'm going to be very interested in the offseason and see what Boston does. IF they thought that this was really their window they would have made a move at the deadline for this year's likely #1. -
It's not just about stats, although again, guys that average 29 on 53 win teams are max contract players. I doubt there has ever been a player that scored 53 in a second round playoff game that didn't at same point have a max contract.Tequilla said:The Celtics won what? 53 games?
That might be the 1 seed this year in the East but that's good for most years a 3 or 4 seed at best.
Offensively, what I meant is that you are starting to see teams try to put a wall around him taking away his shot and then his passing angles.
Teams defend differently in the playoffs versus the regular season ... this is well known.
And IT is a guy that needs to run screen and roll on offense to be effective ... that requires the ball being in his hand. That's better utilized IMO coming off the bench as a 6th man on a really good team.
The fact you disagree with me and think what I'm saying is stupid only further convinces me that the vast majority of hoops observers chase stats as their proof ... stats in hoops only matter so much
IT is a leader. Listen to the way Brad Stevens, Ainge, and his teammates talk about him.
He's played two shitty games against a team that has a guy playing at a historically high level. He's also hurt and has been through the fucking ringer this postseason yet is still in the ECF. Get a grip. -
They're the #1 seed because they have decent coaching, depth, and defense, and an absolute big baller brand that carries their offense.Tequilla said:
Without IT and a reasonable PG replacement they are probably a 45 win team ...haie said:Jesus Christ. Boston would be dreck without IT. They can't score. They can't defend Lebron, same as everyone else.
Fucking speed limit IQ basketball takes.
The only reason they are even in the discussion as a fringe NBA contender and #1 seed in the East right now is that the dominance in the league is consolidated with the Warriors, the Spurs (Leonard), and the Cavs (when LBJ is engaged).
What they are is at, or near the top, of the next level of teams that are pretty good but will never win a NBA title as currently constructed. They are probably similar to the early 2000's Nets teams that were the best of a really bad East and fodder in the NBA Finals or the early to mid 80's Bucks teams that were very good but never elite.
I'm going to be very interested in the offseason and see what Boston does. IF they thought that this was really their window they would have made a move at the deadline for this year's likely #1.
I agree with you in that they're aware it's still a flawed roster, without even bringing in GS and CLE into the discussion. They've could have traded for an elite shooter like CJ McCollum, but they'd still need more firepower to be a contender, period.
None of that is IT's fault, and you can certainly build around him. Tons of speed, grit, scoring. But their roster is far too incomplete at this point.
