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What the fuck is next?
Comments
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um, yeah. Imagine my surprise when I learned to disable one by strapping a shape charge to the side of it.BearsWiin said:
It's mostly HE compression of a core that causes critical mass and thus fissile detonation; later generations used fission as a fusion trigger, since extremely high temperatures and pressures are required to start the process. Neutron reflection/capture techniques to speed up the fission and fusion processes, so that fuel is spent before the heat blows the core apart, have been some of the most closely guarded military secrets we keep.AZDuck said:
You're right, but not because of PALs. PALs were only really brought into use in the 1970's or so. Nukes are actually pretty hard to initiate. One of the render-safe procedures for certain nuclear ordnance used by the US in the 1970's and 1980's was to attach a shaped charge to a pre-marked point on the exterior of the ordnance in question and light her up. This had the effect of deflagrating the HE inside the casing.BearsWiin said:Jesus Christ people, PALs have been an effective part of negative control of nukes since forever. A missile malfunction or bomber crash isn't a fucking close call.
It takes a hell of a lot of energy to spin up the reaction in an atomic bomb and that energy is often attained by the detonation of high explosives within the warhead. But most HE is pretty hard to piss off as well. You can fire a bullet into a brick of C4 and it won't do anything (usually). You can also set fire to C4 and use it to cook. Just don't set the pan down too hard on the residue - because that shit is pissed off.
So if the fuze to initiate the conventional HE isn't present, it is very unlikely that the HE will detonate, let alone the nuke. -
My poont was that it's not the energy from the HE that causes detonation; it is that the HE explosion is specifically shaped so as to compress the core so that it achieves critical mass and detonates on its own accord. You can misshape the HE by using the shape charge and render it unable to compress the core and cause detonation, even if you don't disable the HE itself. A misshapen HE charge would explode and squeeze/squirt the core without compressing it to the poont of detonation.AZDuck said:
um, yeah. Imagine my surprise when I learned to disable one by strapping a shape charge to the side of it.BearsWiin said:
It's mostly HE compression of a core that causes critical mass and thus fissile detonation; later generations used fission as a fusion trigger, since extremely high temperatures and pressures are required to start the process. Neutron reflection/capture techniques to speed up the fission and fusion processes, so that fuel is spent before the heat blows the core apart, have been some of the most closely guarded military secrets we keep.AZDuck said:
You're right, but not because of PALs. PALs were only really brought into use in the 1970's or so. Nukes are actually pretty hard to initiate. One of the render-safe procedures for certain nuclear ordnance used by the US in the 1970's and 1980's was to attach a shaped charge to a pre-marked point on the exterior of the ordnance in question and light her up. This had the effect of deflagrating the HE inside the casing.BearsWiin said:Jesus Christ people, PALs have been an effective part of negative control of nukes since forever. A missile malfunction or bomber crash isn't a fucking close call.
It takes a hell of a lot of energy to spin up the reaction in an atomic bomb and that energy is often attained by the detonation of high explosives within the warhead. But most HE is pretty hard to piss off as well. You can fire a bullet into a brick of C4 and it won't do anything (usually). You can also set fire to C4 and use it to cook. Just don't set the pan down too hard on the residue - because that shit is pissed off.
So if the fuze to initiate the conventional HE isn't present, it is very unlikely that the HE will detonate, let alone the nuke. -
Sounds right to me, I was at Eglin last in 2007, so it's been a while. I also paint with a broad brush. But yep, still weird to me. You blow up a nuke to keep it from blowing up, like you have to destroy the village to save it. You should see what the fucker looks like afterward.BearsWiin said:
My poont was that it's not the energy from the HE that causes detonation; it is that the HE explosion is specifically shaped so as to compress the core so that it achieves critical mass and detonates on its own accord. You can misshape the HE by using the shape charge and render it unable to compress the core and cause detonation, even if you don't disable the HE itself. A misshapen HE charge would explode and squeeze/squirt the core without compressing it to the poont of detonation.AZDuck said:
um, yeah. Imagine my surprise when I learned to disable one by strapping a shape charge to the side of it.BearsWiin said:
It's mostly HE compression of a core that causes critical mass and thus fissile detonation; later generations used fission as a fusion trigger, since extremely high temperatures and pressures are required to start the process. Neutron reflection/capture techniques to speed up the fission and fusion processes, so that fuel is spent before the heat blows the core apart, have been some of the most closely guarded military secrets we keep.AZDuck said:
You're right, but not because of PALs. PALs were only really brought into use in the 1970's or so. Nukes are actually pretty hard to initiate. One of the render-safe procedures for certain nuclear ordnance used by the US in the 1970's and 1980's was to attach a shaped charge to a pre-marked point on the exterior of the ordnance in question and light her up. This had the effect of deflagrating the HE inside the casing.BearsWiin said:Jesus Christ people, PALs have been an effective part of negative control of nukes since forever. A missile malfunction or bomber crash isn't a fucking close call.
It takes a hell of a lot of energy to spin up the reaction in an atomic bomb and that energy is often attained by the detonation of high explosives within the warhead. But most HE is pretty hard to piss off as well. You can fire a bullet into a brick of C4 and it won't do anything (usually). You can also set fire to C4 and use it to cook. Just don't set the pan down too hard on the residue - because that shit is pissed off.
So if the fuze to initiate the conventional HE isn't present, it is very unlikely that the HE will detonate, let alone the nuke. -
You guys and your nuke nawlige have the North Korean's heads spinning right now trying to figure out what your saying
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@FlintMichiganDawg true?AZDuck said:
Sounds right to me, I was at Eglin last in 2007, so it's been a while. I also paint with a broad brush. But yep, still weird to me. You blow up a nuke to keep it from blowing up, like you have to destroy the village to save it. You should see what the fucker looks like afterward.BearsWiin said:
My poont was that it's not the energy from the HE that causes detonation; it is that the HE explosion is specifically shaped so as to compress the core so that it achieves critical mass and detonates on its own accord. You can misshape the HE by using the shape charge and render it unable to compress the core and cause detonation, even if you don't disable the HE itself. A misshapen HE charge would explode and squeeze/squirt the core without compressing it to the poont of detonation.AZDuck said:
um, yeah. Imagine my surprise when I learned to disable one by strapping a shape charge to the side of it.BearsWiin said:
It's mostly HE compression of a core that causes critical mass and thus fissile detonation; later generations used fission as a fusion trigger, since extremely high temperatures and pressures are required to start the process. Neutron reflection/capture techniques to speed up the fission and fusion processes, so that fuel is spent before the heat blows the core apart, have been some of the most closely guarded military secrets we keep.AZDuck said:
You're right, but not because of PALs. PALs were only really brought into use in the 1970's or so. Nukes are actually pretty hard to initiate. One of the render-safe procedures for certain nuclear ordnance used by the US in the 1970's and 1980's was to attach a shaped charge to a pre-marked point on the exterior of the ordnance in question and light her up. This had the effect of deflagrating the HE inside the casing.BearsWiin said:Jesus Christ people, PALs have been an effective part of negative control of nukes since forever. A missile malfunction or bomber crash isn't a fucking close call.
It takes a hell of a lot of energy to spin up the reaction in an atomic bomb and that energy is often attained by the detonation of high explosives within the warhead. But most HE is pretty hard to piss off as well. You can fire a bullet into a brick of C4 and it won't do anything (usually). You can also set fire to C4 and use it to cook. Just don't set the pan down too hard on the residue - because that shit is pissed off.
So if the fuze to initiate the conventional HE isn't present, it is very unlikely that the HE will detonate, let alone the nuke.
