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Big Win for the Celtics
RoadDawg55
Member, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 30,123
Rondo being out swung the series. I like Boston in this one.
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It is a hard series to hide Isaiah, but he will get his on the other end too.
The one thing that has struck me lately is how much trouble Boston has creating shots if IT isn't doing it ... if they aren't defending at an elite level they can get in trouble in a hurry.
Yeah, so fucking what he missed some shots in the 4th. He had a monster game and was +11 when he was in. The only reason the game was close was because his teammates blew it when he was on the bench.
As for the MVP race, you could have made great arguments for Westbrook, Harden, and Kawhi IMO. LeBron is the best player when he wants to be but the Cavs in general looked too uninspired for the balance of the year for me to put him in that top grouping. Westbrook and Harden to me had very similar years ...
Westbrook definitely plays harder consistently but not smarter ... Harden pulls some great offensive strings and plays zero defense. While I respect how hard Westbrook plays, I do think that there is merit in talking about whether he's maximizing the talent on his team ... and for an elite player, that's really the ultimate measure for them because the elite players in hoops mean so much in regards to wins/losses. And in that sense, the Rockets did have a better overall year and Harden deserves credit for it. And, when comparing the overall talent on both teams, doesn't OKC have better talent? Or at minimum, is it fair to say that the talent is relatively comparable surrounding both Harden/Westbrook?
I do see a lot of reason to consider Leonard when you consider that the Spurs are a 60+ win team comprised of Leonard + role players + aging former stars. I do think that the Spurs probably maximized their win total this year but it's also fair to question how much of that sits with Pop. Leonard's not elite from an offensive standpoint but he's easily the best all around player in the league right now in terms of consistent production on both sides of the court.
I think if I had a vote I would have gone Harden, Leonard, and Westbrook. At the end of the day, at least for me, it's hard to substantiate giving the MVP to a guy playing for the 6th best team in the West that won under 50 games in a year where you can point to other strong candidates. If the best reason that I have for voting for Westbrook is that he averaged a triple double, that's not a compelling enough reason for me. Activity does not equal achievement. And to me, the MVP award is all about achievement.
Donvovan should play him 44 minutes. Give him a two minute break in each half.
Where the fuck do you and the other dummies come up with this stuff?
Warning: Stat Geek Deep Dive ... But I Love Basketball so FUCK OFF if you can't handle it.
Regarding Leonard, the reason that I say that he isn't "elite" offensively is because when I look at him, I see a guy that is great offensively within the system. I don't see him as a guy that does a tremendous job of creating opportunities for others (averaging 3.5 assists per game - although I will give him credit for improvement in this area). And again, while he's gotten better, he's not a guy that I see as someone that you just clear the ball out for and ask him to get you a bucket in a critical spot. The guys that I consider that are elite offensively are guys that when everybody knows that they are going to have the ball in their hand you feel really good about their ability to either get a good look for themselves or to create an opportunity for someone else. I don't have an issue with anybody that thinks that Leonard is elite offensively and can definitely make good arguments for why he could or should be considered elite.
Regarding Westbrook, the raw numbers are massive. But I'm not going to take his triple double numbers and look at that as some sign that he deserves the MVP. He's probably one of the most difficult MVP candidates that I've ever seen because so much of his stats are tied to an all-time insane usage rates. His increase in scoring is tied to an increase in shot attempts ... not because he was more efficient with his career low 42.5% FG% (inline with his shooting % 2 years prior when he increased his shooting). His assist rate is inline with last year's totals ... so what it basically tells me is that without Durant he had the ball in his hands more. Does dominating the ball make a player the MVP? Getting a few extra rebounds a game doesn't make a MVP for me. And the turnover numbers and how insane they are also really strikes a hard spot to me not necessarily because of the number but because so many of the turnovers are careless and out of control. It's hard for me to say that the MVP of the league is a player on a team that was 47-35 ... particularly if you feel that that team has some decent talent.
Regarding Harden, I have a lot of the same issues with him that I do Westbrook. The turnovers are disturbing. The 44% FG% shooting isn't great but it is noted that it comes on almost 9 3's per game (2 more per game than Westbrook). But, let's compare Harden to Westbrook ...
Westbrook scored 2.5 points more per game on an additional 5 shot per game ...
Westbrook averaged 2.5 rebounds more per game ...
Harden averaged 0.8 assists more per game ...
Westbrook is a better defensive player ... although not as big as the gap used to be
Harden's team was the 3rd best in the NBA at 55-27 ... Westbrook's team was the 10th best team at 47-35
That's not much of a difference between the two ... Westbrook perhaps gets an edge because of his rebounding but Harden gets the nod in assists and leading his team to better results.
One of the things I like to look at with elite players is how efficient they are. I always look at a truly efficient game being an offensive player that is able to average 1.5 points per shot attempt (almost impossible to do for a full season ... 1.35 to 1.45 being an elite range) and then looking at effective FG%. So looking at the 3 leading contenders, the numbers are actually interesting:
Leonard: 1.44 points per shot attempt, 54.1% effective FG %
Westbrook: 1.32 points per shot attempt, 47.6% effective FG %
Harden: 1.54 points per shot attempt, 52.5% effective FG %
The reality is that Westbrook just isn't efficient. He's a volume player. Leonard's efficiency is very good and supports the argument that he's more elite than I give him credit for (and perhaps I should reconsider my position a bit here). Harden's overall efficiency when it comes to getting to the free throw line is not only elite in today's game, but elite in terms of all-time players. It's hard to compare eras because the utilization of the 3 point shot has changed the game versus the 80's and early 90's (and obviously any time before the line was in place). A sampling of some of the guys that I look at as being truly efficient scorers and some of their best seasons:
Michael Jordan (86-87): 1.33 points per attempt, 48.4% effective FG %
Michael Jordan (87-88): 1.44 points per attempt, 54.6% effective FG %
Michael Jordan (88-89): 1.47 points per attempt, 55.3% effective FG %
Michael Jordan (89-90): 1.40 points per attempt, 54.8% effective FG %
Michael Jordan (90-91): 1.40 points per attempt, 55.1% effective FG %
Larry Bird (83-84): 1.24 points per attempt, 49.7% effective FG %
Larry Bird (84-85): 1.30 points per attempt, 53.8% effective FG %
Larry Bird (85-86): 1.32 points per attempt, 52.1% effective FG %
Larry Bird (86-87): 1.39 points per attempt, 55.5% effective FG %
Larry Bird (87-88): 1.36 points per attempt, 55.6% effective FG %
LeBron's obviously an offensive monster and if you strip away his first 2 years, he's always averaged over 1.32 points per shot attempt per game and an effective FG % over 50%. A few of his most efficient years:
LeBron James (12-13): 1.50 points per attempt, 60.3% effective FG %
LeBron James (13-14): 1.54 points per attempt, 61.0% effective FG %
LeBron James (16-17): 1.45 points per attempt, 59.4% effective FG %
LeBron's actually an interesting case here because he's in between in terms of his game between the old school way of shooting minimal 3's and the new generation of jacking 3's left and right. There's likely an inflation rate that needs to be applied to Jordan/Bird to get them inline with today's game but the effective FG % speaks to general efficiency. James is an absolute monster when it comes to being the most devastating penetrator in the history of the game. His numbers if he could shoot free throws at a high level his numbers would be even more insane.
But when you look at these kind of players and then compare back to Westbrook, the numbers really don't add up relative to Harden and Leonard. So then the question to me comes down to Harden and Leonard. Leonard had the better record. He's definitely a better defensive player. It's why to me they are the 2 top candidates. I tend to value winning more than probably others and that's why I favor Leonard. But to back either Leonard or Harden doesn't mean that doing so is trying to slight Westbrook. There's actually a lot of reasons to see Westbrook as a close 3rd in a 3 horse race ... and honestly if the Cavs had a more consistent year you could make a really good argument for LeBron as this has been one of his most efficient seasons.