Kirkland

Tequilla

Ice_Holmvik said:

Thread ruined

FUCK OFF

AlCzervik

Jake Eldrenkamp was a meh recruit who barely saw the field for three years. Pete/Strausser turned him into an all Pac-12 guy and over the entirety of the last two years, he was their best OL. We've seen the same sort of success on the DL with several upperclass guys who appeared to be busts. So I'm not giving up yet on guys like Hilbers, Burleson, and James.

Yes I'm concerned about the state of OL recruiting, but not overly so. LIPO. We've got more experienced upperclass depth on the OL than we've had at any time in the past 15+ years. Even if all these guys suck, that's STILL a substantial and important improvement over where we've been. Pete's getting there - not as fast as I'd like but we're WAY better off than when he first arrived.

jhfstyle24

Tequilla said:

RoadDawg55 said:

guntlove said:

RoadDawg55 said:

guntlove said:

I don't know, Roadie. Our primary back-ups at tackle that Strausser's recruited are Hilbers & Burleson. If that doesn't scare the shit out of you, it should.

James will be a redshirt junior this year... so if he's planning on being serviceable, he should probably get going with that pretty soon.

There's so much dead weight on this OL roster, and there have been so many misses on highly recruited guys. The top end talent (outside of our two starting tackles) is pretty fucking terrible. And our depth is alarmingly bad. When a 6"1 270lb true freshman beats out every other guard you've recruited/coached for the last three years... then you haven't done a good enough job recruiting or developing the position. At some point Strausser can't always get a free pass.

Decent OL class this year despite the misses. There are still a lot of younger guys that haven't really played yet.

I'm anxious to see how Wattenberg, Hillbers, and Roberts look. I expect Harris to be much better. Maybe Burleson comes around. My early guess is Wattenberg wins the LG job based on Strausser's comments.

The line will be very good next year. The arguments both ways are valid. We "may" have some depth issues and we didn't pull in the elite guys, but there should also be a realization that the
much maligned OL will probably be the best in the conference next year.

I agree that Strausser doesn't get a never ending pass, but he gets one until the OL sucks. We got mauled against Alabama. Hopefully this OL gets another shot to be tested in a game like that again.

I'm not sure the line will be 'very good' next year. Our tackles, provided there are no injuries, look fantastic. Strausser deserves credit for the way he's developed those two dudes. He also deserves some credit for the jump that Eldrenkamp made this season.

But on the interior next year, you have Coleman, who IMO is the very definition of passably average, at center. Then you have Harris, who was a 270lb true freshman this year at one guard spot, and Twattenberg, who has never played a single down of college football at the other guard. Combine that with the fact that everything behind them (Turner, Sossebee, Kirkland, James) has done positively fuck-all the last four years under Strausser.... and you have a lot of reason for concern.

We should both agree that if you're recruiting and developing your OL roster properly you shouldn't, four years in, be starting a guy who's never played in a game before (Twattenberg), on a team that's expected to compete for a playoff spot. Just like you never should've had to play/start a 270lb true freshman last year.

Strausser put together a solid OL this season... they got exposed by Bama, but Bama exposed a lot of people. But his OL's the previous 2 seasons certainly weren't anything special. That basically means you have a coach who has produced a good unit one out of his three seasons so far, while also proving to be a collossal liability on the recruiting trail.

Yet guys like Bananas & Waffle, who are really good poasters, have Straussers testes crammed so far down their collective esophagus (shout out to @EsophagealTestes!!1!)... that they literally believe the man can do no wrong. It's weird.

Gunt, you are a very good poster. I just can't get on board with the thought the OL won't be very good next year.

We mostly mauled teams last year. 4 of 5 starters are back. I don't love Shelton, but the coaches do and he is a preseason All Pac 12 player. The white TE's return. We are in a good place for next year.

What you are continually fail to understand is that any negative OL talk isn't about 2017 ... it SHOULD be just fine.

Have you thought about 2018 at all? What odds do you give to Adams leaving early? What about McGary? Odds of at least one? What about both?

Which of the following T prospects give you a lot of confidence going forward in 2018 (with their class at that point):

Matt James (RS SR), Jared Hilbers (RS JR), Devin Burleson (RS JR), Henry Bainivalu (RS Frosh), or Jaxson Kirkland (RS Frosh)? And if you listen to DDY, Bainivalu is likely a better G than T prospect.

Assuming that Nick Harris moves to C after Coleman Shelton's graduation, what guard prospects give you a lot of confidence going forward:

Jesse Sosebee (RS SR), Henry Roberts (RS JR), Luke Wattenburg (RS Soph), Cole Norgaard (RS Frosh)? Maybe you have hope for John Turner in his RS SR year?

At this point, I can say that I don't have a lot of confidence in James, Hilbers, Burleson, Sosebee, Roberts, or Turner due to their to date development and/or pedigree. You could twist my arm into saying that Hilbers and Roberts at least have some hope for it eventually clicking for them.

The 2017 class will likely be better than the balance of the last few years. It highlights how important it is for the 2018 class to be huge because the depth of talent in the OL right now isn't great.

We're heading to a point down the road where the underlying talent IF it doesn't develop is going to absolutely under mind the rest of the entire program.

I hate to be that guy... but we have some guys next year on our board who could be year-1 guys (Jaramillo, for example).
I am confident that, with the examples of Jake Eldrenkamp, Nick Harris, and Coleman Shelton, this staff can both evaluate and develop All-PAC talent.

Nick Harris was a 2* guard. Norgaard is a 2* OT. In 3 years, both those guys could be starters for a National Championship-level team.
Every single player up there with the exception of Norgaard is a higher rated recruit than Nick Harris- who was a PAC-12 starting guard for the best team in the conference as a freshman, on the best offensive line. Henry Roberts and Luke Wattenberg are both going to be very good to elite guards for us, as is Bainivalu. Norgaard and Kirkland are high-upside projects (esp. Norgaard), and Kirkland can start with 2 years of development and play well.

Because who the hell was Eldrenkamp 2 years ago? Nick who? Coleman Shelton is still on the team? 3* recruit Trey Adams at LT? Kaleb McGary isn't at LT???

Oh, look, that line was the best in the conference last year. That gives me complete and utter confidence in our offensive line's future.

So, short answer: Yes, it will develop, and will get better. Maybe we won't be Stanford (seriously? Little and Sarell?), but we can be elite.

RoadDawg55

jhfstyle24 said:

Tequilla said:

RoadDawg55 said:

guntlove said:

RoadDawg55 said:

guntlove said:

I don't know, Roadie. Our primary back-ups at tackle that Strausser's recruited are Hilbers & Burleson. If that doesn't scare the shit out of you, it should.

James will be a redshirt junior this year... so if he's planning on being serviceable, he should probably get going with that pretty soon.

There's so much dead weight on this OL roster, and there have been so many misses on highly recruited guys. The top end talent (outside of our two starting tackles) is pretty fucking terrible. And our depth is alarmingly bad. When a 6"1 270lb true freshman beats out every other guard you've recruited/coached for the last three years... then you haven't done a good enough job recruiting or developing the position. At some point Strausser can't always get a free pass.

Decent OL class this year despite the misses. There are still a lot of younger guys that haven't really played yet.

I'm anxious to see how Wattenberg, Hillbers, and Roberts look. I expect Harris to be much better. Maybe Burleson comes around. My early guess is Wattenberg wins the LG job based on Strausser's comments.

The line will be very good next year. The arguments both ways are valid. We "may" have some depth issues and we didn't pull in the elite guys, but there should also be a realization that the
much maligned OL will probably be the best in the conference next year.

I agree that Strausser doesn't get a never ending pass, but he gets one until the OL sucks. We got mauled against Alabama. Hopefully this OL gets another shot to be tested in a game like that again.

I'm not sure the line will be 'very good' next year. Our tackles, provided there are no injuries, look fantastic. Strausser deserves credit for the way he's developed those two dudes. He also deserves some credit for the jump that Eldrenkamp made this season.

But on the interior next year, you have Coleman, who IMO is the very definition of passably average, at center. Then you have Harris, who was a 270lb true freshman this year at one guard spot, and Twattenberg, who has never played a single down of college football at the other guard. Combine that with the fact that everything behind them (Turner, Sossebee, Kirkland, James) has done positively fuck-all the last four years under Strausser.... and you have a lot of reason for concern.

We should both agree that if you're recruiting and developing your OL roster properly you shouldn't, four years in, be starting a guy who's never played in a game before (Twattenberg), on a team that's expected to compete for a playoff spot. Just like you never should've had to play/start a 270lb true freshman last year.

Strausser put together a solid OL this season... they got exposed by Bama, but Bama exposed a lot of people. But his OL's the previous 2 seasons certainly weren't anything special. That basically means you have a coach who has produced a good unit one out of his three seasons so far, while also proving to be a collossal liability on the recruiting trail.

Yet guys like Bananas & Waffle, who are really good poasters, have Straussers testes crammed so far down their collective esophagus (shout out to @EsophagealTestes!!1!)... that they literally believe the man can do no wrong. It's weird.

Gunt, you are a very good poster. I just can't get on board with the thought the OL won't be very good next year.

We mostly mauled teams last year. 4 of 5 starters are back. I don't love Shelton, but the coaches do and he is a preseason All Pac 12 player. The white TE's return. We are in a good place for next year.

What you are continually fail to understand is that any negative OL talk isn't about 2017 ... it SHOULD be just fine.

Have you thought about 2018 at all? What odds do you give to Adams leaving early? What about McGary? Odds of at least one? What about both?

Which of the following T prospects give you a lot of confidence going forward in 2018 (with their class at that point):

Matt James (RS SR), Jared Hilbers (RS JR), Devin Burleson (RS JR), Henry Bainivalu (RS Frosh), or Jaxson Kirkland (RS Frosh)? And if you listen to DDY, Bainivalu is likely a better G than T prospect.

Assuming that Nick Harris moves to C after Coleman Shelton's graduation, what guard prospects give you a lot of confidence going forward:

Jesse Sosebee (RS SR), Henry Roberts (RS JR), Luke Wattenburg (RS Soph), Cole Norgaard (RS Frosh)? Maybe you have hope for John Turner in his RS SR year?

At this point, I can say that I don't have a lot of confidence in James, Hilbers, Burleson, Sosebee, Roberts, or Turner due to their to date development and/or pedigree. You could twist my arm into saying that Hilbers and Roberts at least have some hope for it eventually clicking for them.

The 2017 class will likely be better than the balance of the last few years. It highlights how important it is for the 2018 class to be huge because the depth of talent in the OL right now isn't great.

We're heading to a point down the road where the underlying talent IF it doesn't develop is going to absolutely under mind the rest of the entire program.

I hate to be that guy... but we have some guys next year on our board who could be year-1 guys (Jaramillo, for example).
I am confident that, with the examples of Jake Eldrenkamp, Nick Harris, and Coleman Shelton, this staff can both evaluate and develop All-PAC talent.

Nick Harris was a 2* guard. Norgaard is a 2* OT. In 3 years, both those guys could be starters for a National Championship-level team.
Every single player up there with the exception of Norgaard is a higher rated recruit than Nick Harris- who was a PAC-12 starting guard for the best team in the conference as a freshman, on the best offensive line. Henry Roberts and Luke Wattenberg are both going to be very good to elite guards for us, as is Bainivalu. Norgaard and Kirkland are high-upside projects (esp. Norgaard), and Kirkland can start with 2 years of development and play well.

Because who the hell was Eldrenkamp 2 years ago? Nick who? Coleman Shelton is still on the team? 3* recruit Trey Adams at LT? Kaleb McGary isn't at LT???

Oh, look, that line was the best in the conference last year. That gives me complete and utter confidence in our offensive line's future.

So, short answer: Yes, it will develop, and will get better. Maybe we won't be Stanford (seriously? Little and Sarell?), but we can be elite.

I agree with DDY that true freshmen that aren't elite should not start on a good OL.

The Eldrenkamp point is a good one though. Everyone who doesn't start has been basically written off on this board as a player who sucks. As a R-So, Eldrenkamp couldn't beat out Tufunga, Criste, Tanigawa, and Atoe. Those were the interior OL on the 2014 team. Some guys will actually get better.

Tequilla

jhfstyle24 said:

Tequilla said:

RoadDawg55 said:

guntlove said:

RoadDawg55 said:

guntlove said:

I don't know, Roadie. Our primary back-ups at tackle that Strausser's recruited are Hilbers & Burleson. If that doesn't scare the shit out of you, it should.

James will be a redshirt junior this year... so if he's planning on being serviceable, he should probably get going with that pretty soon.

There's so much dead weight on this OL roster, and there have been so many misses on highly recruited guys. The top end talent (outside of our two starting tackles) is pretty fucking terrible. And our depth is alarmingly bad. When a 6"1 270lb true freshman beats out every other guard you've recruited/coached for the last three years... then you haven't done a good enough job recruiting or developing the position. At some point Strausser can't always get a free pass.

Decent OL class this year despite the misses. There are still a lot of younger guys that haven't really played yet.

I'm anxious to see how Wattenberg, Hillbers, and Roberts look. I expect Harris to be much better. Maybe Burleson comes around. My early guess is Wattenberg wins the LG job based on Strausser's comments.

The line will be very good next year. The arguments both ways are valid. We "may" have some depth issues and we didn't pull in the elite guys, but there should also be a realization that the
much maligned OL will probably be the best in the conference next year.

I agree that Strausser doesn't get a never ending pass, but he gets one until the OL sucks. We got mauled against Alabama. Hopefully this OL gets another shot to be tested in a game like that again.

I'm not sure the line will be 'very good' next year. Our tackles, provided there are no injuries, look fantastic. Strausser deserves credit for the way he's developed those two dudes. He also deserves some credit for the jump that Eldrenkamp made this season.

But on the interior next year, you have Coleman, who IMO is the very definition of passably average, at center. Then you have Harris, who was a 270lb true freshman this year at one guard spot, and Twattenberg, who has never played a single down of college football at the other guard. Combine that with the fact that everything behind them (Turner, Sossebee, Kirkland, James) has done positively fuck-all the last four years under Strausser.... and you have a lot of reason for concern.

We should both agree that if you're recruiting and developing your OL roster properly you shouldn't, four years in, be starting a guy who's never played in a game before (Twattenberg), on a team that's expected to compete for a playoff spot. Just like you never should've had to play/start a 270lb true freshman last year.

Strausser put together a solid OL this season... they got exposed by Bama, but Bama exposed a lot of people. But his OL's the previous 2 seasons certainly weren't anything special. That basically means you have a coach who has produced a good unit one out of his three seasons so far, while also proving to be a collossal liability on the recruiting trail.

Yet guys like Bananas & Waffle, who are really good poasters, have Straussers testes crammed so far down their collective esophagus (shout out to @EsophagealTestes!!1!)... that they literally believe the man can do no wrong. It's weird.

Gunt, you are a very good poster. I just can't get on board with the thought the OL won't be very good next year.

We mostly mauled teams last year. 4 of 5 starters are back. I don't love Shelton, but the coaches do and he is a preseason All Pac 12 player. The white TE's return. We are in a good place for next year.

What you are continually fail to understand is that any negative OL talk isn't about 2017 ... it SHOULD be just fine.

Have you thought about 2018 at all? What odds do you give to Adams leaving early? What about McGary? Odds of at least one? What about both?

Which of the following T prospects give you a lot of confidence going forward in 2018 (with their class at that point):

Matt James (RS SR), Jared Hilbers (RS JR), Devin Burleson (RS JR), Henry Bainivalu (RS Frosh), or Jaxson Kirkland (RS Frosh)? And if you listen to DDY, Bainivalu is likely a better G than T prospect.

Assuming that Nick Harris moves to C after Coleman Shelton's graduation, what guard prospects give you a lot of confidence going forward:

Jesse Sosebee (RS SR), Henry Roberts (RS JR), Luke Wattenburg (RS Soph), Cole Norgaard (RS Frosh)? Maybe you have hope for John Turner in his RS SR year?

At this point, I can say that I don't have a lot of confidence in James, Hilbers, Burleson, Sosebee, Roberts, or Turner due to their to date development and/or pedigree. You could twist my arm into saying that Hilbers and Roberts at least have some hope for it eventually clicking for them.

The 2017 class will likely be better than the balance of the last few years. It highlights how important it is for the 2018 class to be huge because the depth of talent in the OL right now isn't great.

We're heading to a point down the road where the underlying talent IF it doesn't develop is going to absolutely under mind the rest of the entire program.

I hate to be that guy... but we have some guys next year on our board who could be year-1 guys (Jaramillo, for example).
I am confident that, with the examples of Jake Eldrenkamp, Nick Harris, and Coleman Shelton, this staff can both evaluate and develop All-PAC talent.

Nick Harris was a 2* guard. Norgaard is a 2* OT. In 3 years, both those guys could be starters for a National Championship-level team.
Every single player up there with the exception of Norgaard is a higher rated recruit than Nick Harris- who was a PAC-12 starting guard for the best team in the conference as a freshman, on the best offensive line. Henry Roberts and Luke Wattenberg are both going to be very good to elite guards for us, as is Bainivalu. Norgaard and Kirkland are high-upside projects (esp. Norgaard), and Kirkland can start with 2 years of development and play well.

Because who the hell was Eldrenkamp 2 years ago? Nick who? Coleman Shelton is still on the team? 3* recruit Trey Adams at LT? Kaleb McGary isn't at LT???

Oh, look, that line was the best in the conference last year. That gives me complete and utter confidence in our offensive line's future.

So, short answer: Yes, it will develop, and will get better. Maybe we won't be Stanford (seriously? Little and Sarell?), but we can be elite.

Signing 1-2 high level 2018 guys that can come in and be likely starters as RS Frosh would be a huge improvement and calm a lot of the talk down. It's a "show me" for Strausser ... it's not his ability to develop ... it's his ability to recruit. We need more guys like Adams/McGary to play on the national level ... that's just being honest.

I like the guys in this class ... no problem there. I'm high on Wattenberg ... Roberts not quite as much given how buried on the depth chart he has been. I don't automatically assume that because somebody has been playing that that means that they are at the level that we really need to develop our OL to be at.

But the 2018 class now is CRITICAL ... it must be a good class because as you mentioned both Norgaard and Kirkland to various levels are developmental guys that are 2-3 years away from being reasonable contributors. The margin for error after missing on the high end guys in this class is getting tighter and tighter. We really needed 1-2 of our high end targets in this class because IF both Adams and McGary leave after next year we are in a world of trouble.

Sources

EsophagealFeces

guntlove said:

RoadDawg55 said:

guntlove said:

I don't know, Roadie. Our primary back-ups at tackle that Strausser's recruited are Hilbers & Burleson. If that doesn't scare the shit out of you, it should.

James will be a redshirt junior this year... so if he's planning on being serviceable, he should probably get going with that pretty soon.

There's so much dead weight on this OL roster, and there have been so many misses on highly recruited guys. The top end talent (outside of our two starting tackles) is pretty fucking terrible. And our depth is alarmingly bad. When a 6"1 270lb true freshman beats out every other guard you've recruited/coached for the last three years... then you haven't done a good enough job recruiting or developing the position. At some point Strausser can't always get a free pass.

Decent OL class this year despite the misses. There are still a lot of younger guys that haven't really played yet.

I'm anxious to see how Wattenberg, Hillbers, and Roberts look. I expect Harris to be much better. Maybe Burleson comes around. My early guess is Wattenberg wins the LG job based on Strausser's comments.

The line will be very good next year. The arguments both ways are valid. We "may" have some depth issues and we didn't pull in the elite guys, but there should also be a realization that the
much maligned OL will probably be the best in the conference next year.

I agree that Strausser doesn't get a never ending pass, but he gets one until the OL sucks. We got mauled against Alabama. Hopefully this OL gets another shot to be tested in a game like that again.

I'm not sure the line will be 'very good' next year. Our tackles, provided there are no injuries, look fantastic. Strausser deserves credit for the way he's developed those two dudes. He also deserves some credit for the jump that Eldrenkamp made this season.

But on the interior next year, you have Coleman, who IMO is the very definition of passably average, at center. Then you have Harris, who was a 270lb true freshman this year at one guard spot, and Twattenberg, who has never played a single down of college football at the other guard. Combine that with the fact that everything behind them (Turner, Sossebee, Kirkland, James) has done positively fuck-all the last four years under Strausser.... and you have a lot of reason for concern.

We should both agree that if you're recruiting and developing your OL roster properly you shouldn't, four years in, be starting a guy who's never played in a game before (Twattenberg), on a team that's expected to compete for a playoff spot. Just like you never should've had to play/start a 270lb true freshman last year.

Strausser put together a solid OL this season... they got exposed by Bama, but Bama exposed a lot of people. But his OL's the previous 2 seasons certainly weren't anything special. That basically means you have a coach who has produced a good unit one out of his three seasons so far, while also proving to be a collossal liability on the recruiting trail.

Yet guys like Bananas & Waffle, who are really good poasters, have Straussers testes crammed so far down their collective esophagus (shout out to @EsophagealTestes!!1!)... that they literally believe the man can do no wrong. It's weird.

I'm claiming free pub on this one. The esophagus is my wheelhouse.

CuntWaffle

I'm worried what our linebacker corps in 2042 is going to look like

Petersen3098

CuntWaffle said:

I'm worried what our linebacker corps in 2042 is going to look like

Maybe we can get Joe Mathis' son to play LB.

kh83

Jesus H, take it to the Oline bored