And this is why, to a certain extent, I can't get fully behind the "branding" and "sales" and whatnot arguments when it comes to recruiting. There are some people here who seem to think that UW should sign every single player they want and anything less is failure. It's just bullshit, though.
It is absolutely the case that some people are just naturally better salesmen than others. It's the case that some people are more likable or relatable than others. It's been proven by study after study that marketing works.
BUT. The car salesman analogy fails when external factors are taken into account. Sometimes the other salesman is just selling a far cheaper car. It's not being a poor sport or being a whiny bitch or making excuses to point out that blue bloods buy players, it's simply a fact. There is still a window for an honest broker to close the deal with a premium recruit through honest salesmanship and pitching Big Picture ideals, but the playing field is certainly tilted up. There are players/families that will not be convinced under any circumstances that five to six figures of immediate benefits are not better than a chance (even a good chance) at millions.
So can certain members of the staff "do better" at recruiting? Sure. Have a few of them been dropping the ball lately? Sure. Is it necessarily even in their control to get EVERY SINGLE PLAYER that some here insist that they get? Hell no. They're not elite recruiters, but they're doing alright for boxing with one arm.
And this is why, to a certain extent, I can't get fully behind the "branding" and "sales" and whatnot arguments when it comes to recruiting. There are some people here who seem to think that UW should sign every single player they want and anything less is failure. It's just bullshit, though.
It is absolutely the case that some people are just naturally better salesmen than others. It's the case that some people are more likable or relatable than others. It's been proven by study after study that marketing works.
BUT. The car salesman analogy fails when external factors are taken into account. Sometimes the other salesman is just selling a far cheaper car. It's not being a poor sport or being a whiny bitch or making excuses to point out that blue bloods buy players, it's simply a fact. There is still a window for an honest broker to close the deal with a premium recruit through honest salesmanship and pitching Big Picture ideals, but the playing field is certainly tilted up. There are players/families that will not be convinced under any circumstances that five to six figures of immediate benefits are not better than a chance (even a good chance) at millions.
So can certain members of the staff "do better" at recruiting? Sure. Have a few of them been dropping the ball lately? Sure. Is it necessarily even in their control to get EVERY SINGLE PLAYER that some here insist that they get? Hell no. They're not elite recruiters, but they're doing alright for boxing with one arm.
1. Don’t say “certain members” just come out and say @Dennis_DeYoung or whoever the fuck you’re targeting, this isn’t your high school diary
2. Not a single person on here thinks UDUB is going to get every player they choose.
Saying so waters down the standard and pressure our staff and AD should be under. Do we wanna go back to when we said we couldn’t get anyone cuz we went 1-10 and 0-12? Do you think Bama, Clemson, and Ohio State day “I hate recruiting because there’s too much pressure not to lose every single kid we like out of HS?” No they fucking wanna win and know they need as many of the best players as possible to do so no matter if that means people feel pressure.
3. Faatui Tuitele was about to commit to Ohio State and then the Zach Smith story dropped as he was finishing his visits. Johnny Nansen and his paycheck were assumed to be in 2nd place. He’s going to UDUB. How’d that happen? Do you know UDUB doesn’t play to get players? What if EVERYONE is paying players like people always say, wouldnt the school and the brand and the program matter a ton if everyone is paying the same price?
4. Just because you can’t control everything doesn’t mean you let any of your standards drop. If our AD is doing stupid shit and not representing who we are as fans and what we pay money for and doesn’t illustrate the BEST THINGS about everything WE love about UDUB, we don’t just say “welp Bama is paying kids I guess we give up”. Just like you said it absolutely comes down to who’s the better and more relatable person. The problem is if we have a nice person like Bob Gregory for some reason our fan base can’t also say he’s not relatable and shitty at a huge part of his job and it’s not good enough to win a natty. Tosh bought so many recruits and all that but what happened when he wasn’t good enough at his job to win a natty, he’s gone.
Not a surprise here, but Larry Johnson, the OSU DL coach who was Togiai's primary recruiter, has been identified as having coordinated bribes for football recruits in testimony from the big NCAA BB trial.
And this is why, to a certain extent, I can't get fully behind the "branding" and "sales" and whatnot arguments when it comes to recruiting. There are some people here who seem to think that UW should sign every single player they want and anything less is failure. It's just bullshit, though.
It is absolutely the case that some people are just naturally better salesmen than others. It's the case that some people are more likable or relatable than others. It's been proven by study after study that marketing works.
BUT. The car salesman analogy fails when external factors are taken into account. Sometimes the other salesman is just selling a far cheaper car. It's not being a poor sport or being a whiny bitch or making excuses to point out that blue bloods buy players, it's simply a fact. There is still a window for an honest broker to close the deal with a premium recruit through honest salesmanship and pitching Big Picture ideals, but the playing field is certainly tilted up. There are players/families that will not be convinced under any circumstances that five to six figures of immediate benefits are not better than a chance (even a good chance) at millions.
So can certain members of the staff "do better" at recruiting? Sure. Have a few of them been dropping the ball lately? Sure. Is it necessarily even in their control to get EVERY SINGLE PLAYER that some here insist that they get? Hell no. They're not elite recruiters, but they're doing alright for boxing with one arm.
I had a very similar post a few weeks ago but you sayed it much gooder. I completely agree. We really need a national championship appearance at minimum before we have a chance at pulling a lot of elite recruits against these sqwads. We absolutely have a hand tied down in this fight at the moment.
And this is why, to a certain extent, I can't get fully behind the "branding" and "sales" and whatnot arguments when it comes to recruiting. There are some people here who seem to think that UW should sign every single player they want and anything less is failure. It's just bullshit, though.
It is absolutely the case that some people are just naturally better salesmen than others. It's the case that some people are more likable or relatable than others. It's been proven by study after study that marketing works.
BUT. The car salesman analogy fails when external factors are taken into account. Sometimes the other salesman is just selling a far cheaper car. It's not being a poor sport or being a whiny bitch or making excuses to point out that blue bloods buy players, it's simply a fact. There is still a window for an honest broker to close the deal with a premium recruit through honest salesmanship and pitching Big Picture ideals, but the playing field is certainly tilted up. There are players/families that will not be convinced under any circumstances that five to six figures of immediate benefits are not better than a chance (even a good chance) at millions.
So can certain members of the staff "do better" at recruiting? Sure. Have a few of them been dropping the ball lately? Sure. Is it necessarily even in their control to get EVERY SINGLE PLAYER that some here insist that they get? Hell no. They're not elite recruiters, but they're doing alright for boxing with one arm.
1. Don’t say “certain members” just come out and say @Dennis_DeYoung or whoever the fuck you’re targeting, this isn’t your high school diary
Reading is hard. Re-read my post and look for the words "certain members." You may be surprised where you find it. To your point, though, I didn't call anybody out specifically mostly because it's such a prevalent attitude that the list would be too long.
2. Not a single person on here thinks UDUB is going to get every player they choose.
For starters, I was being hyperbolic to drive a point home. That point being that some people lose their shit and want somebody fired almost every time a kid commits elsewhere.
Saying so waters down the standard and pressure our staff and AD should be under. Do we wanna go back to when we said we couldn’t get anyone cuz we went 1-10 and 0-12? Do you think Bama, Clemson, and Ohio State day “I hate recruiting because there’s too much pressure not to lose every single kid we like out of HS?” No they fucking wanna win and know they need as many of the best players as possible to do so no matter if that means people feel pressure.
The underlying assumption here is that the UW football staff and AD aren't under any pressure to recruit talented players, but that's a false premise. It's not like the staff aren't out on the recruiting trail busting ass like any other staff across the country, they just do things a little differently. They offer just about every five or high four star player not named Gee Scott in their recruiting footprint every year, so clearly they understand that talent matters. There are just levels to what coaches are willing to do, and the impression that this staff gives--at least publicly--is that they're only willing to suck so much cock. The purple Hawaiian shirt budget is large and impressive, but they're not dressing up in full pads and squatting in front of a photo backdrop like they're taking a shit in the woods for some kind of Instagram stunt.
In the end, though, why beat around the bush when it comes to defining the "standard and pressure our staff and AD should be under" as it relates to the pressure and methods of the schools you mentioned like Ohio State and Bama and Clemson? You can just come right out and say that a percentage of players are just going to require a payoff before even considering your pitch, so UW should get with the times and do what it takes. Because that's what you mean, right? Anything else would be outside the scope of this discussion. This discussion being Ohio State and Bama being implicated in pay-for-play.
3. Faatui Tuitele was about to commit to Ohio State and then the Zach Smith story dropped as he was finishing his visits. Johnny Nansen and his paycheck were assumed to be in 2nd place. He’s going to UDUB. How’d that happen? Do you know UDUB doesn’t play to get players? What if EVERYONE is paying players like people always say, wouldnt the school and the brand and the program matter a ton if everyone is paying the same price?
a.) The implication is that Tuitele was going to take a bag from Ohio State or USC, so UW must have matched. You know all of this for a fact? b.) If everyone is paying players exactly the same, then yes: brand and program is everything; that's just logic. The premise is absurd, though. Look to your left. Now look to your right. Both of those people are probably QC coaches at Alabama if you're just playing the numbers. You can just look at coaching salaries and AD budgets to see that there are big differences in how schools prioritize football. You can look in the stands at various stadiums and extrapolate how strongly those teams' boosters prioritize football and winning. The playing field isn't level.
Am I naive enough to believe that UDUB players aren't receiving impermissible benefits? Hell no. UW has boosters too. I'll be damned if anyone on their staff is outright paying players, though, and either the whole Built for Life program and presentation is one of the most elaborate cover-ups/trolls ever or that staff is legitimately trying to do things differently (I mean, look at all the consternation here over the coaches telling PSAs how hard they'll have to work and how nothing will be handed to them). That's the difference (and I can't prove it, but it's the outward appearance that is reinforced by extrapolating backward from results with high profile recruits): One program accepts that the system is corrupt--and maybe looks the other way in order to not be left too far behind--but doesn't actively participate and even tells prospects that sunshine won't be blown up their ass all day/every day and everything must be earned. These other programs participate in the corruption actively, at a higher level, with many more resources and coordination behind them.
4. Just because you can’t control everything doesn’t mean you let any of your standards drop. If our AD is doing stupid shit and not representing who we are as fans and what we pay money for and doesn’t illustrate the BEST THINGS about everything WE love about UDUB, we don’t just say “welp Bama is paying kids I guess we give up”. Just like you said it absolutely comes down to who’s the better and more relatable person. The problem is if we have a nice person like Bob Gregory for some reason our fan base can’t also say he’s not relatable and shitty at a huge part of his job and it’s not good enough to win a natty. Tosh bought so many recruits and all that but what happened when he wasn’t good enough at his job to win a natty, he’s gone.
I agree that high standards are important. I agree that the marketing could be MUCH better. I agree that #scoducks#wareagle can eat a dick. These are all good points, but it's a separate discussion. For starters, none of that has anything to do with paying players or not, so it's irrelevant to this discussion. In other words, it's not an either/or. Secondly, I didn't suggest the staff should just give up, so that's a strawman argument. I prefer, unlike some, that the staff continues to run the program in the most "clean" way that they can, even if it means they'll have zero chance at getting commitments from a subset of very talented kids. What I'm suggesting is that this looks like failure or laziness sometimes, when sometimes it's just being outgunned. There's a finite amount of resources in recruiting, and I think sometimes you recognize a situation that's a waste of your time and then stop wasting your time.
I think the staff has actually done a pretty damned good job of raising the talent level in the program without sacrificing ethics or what they stand for. They've had to be a bit unconventional in their pitch and approach in order to do so (not carpet-bombing offers, eliminating risk by being upfront about the challenge, playing up development over perks, etc.). My whole point was that sometimes what looks like shitty recruiting is actually just a public illustration of the seedy underbelly of the system and the stratification of ethical standards within. It's not always just about being white and liking Bob Seger, whoever the hell that is.
And this is why, to a certain extent, I can't get fully behind the "branding" and "sales" and whatnot arguments when it comes to recruiting. There are some people here who seem to think that UW should sign every single player they want and anything less is failure. It's just bullshit, though.
It is absolutely the case that some people are just naturally better salesmen than others. It's the case that some people are more likable or relatable than others. It's been proven by study after study that marketing works.
BUT. The car salesman analogy fails when external factors are taken into account. Sometimes the other salesman is just selling a far cheaper car. It's not being a poor sport or being a whiny bitch or making excuses to point out that blue bloods buy players, it's simply a fact. There is still a window for an honest broker to close the deal with a premium recruit through honest salesmanship and pitching Big Picture ideals, but the playing field is certainly tilted up. There are players/families that will not be convinced under any circumstances that five to six figures of immediate benefits are not better than a chance (even a good chance) at millions.
So can certain members of the staff "do better" at recruiting? Sure. Have a few of them been dropping the ball lately? Sure. Is it necessarily even in their control to get EVERY SINGLE PLAYER that some here insist that they get? Hell no. They're not elite recruiters, but they're doing alright for boxing with one arm.
Fuck off. This is such a fucking beta bitch poast.
Close or fuck off.
Did you see what Malloe did in '19? Do that at every position.
And this is why, to a certain extent, I can't get fully behind the "branding" and "sales" and whatnot arguments when it comes to recruiting. There are some people here who seem to think that UW should sign every single player they want and anything less is failure. It's just bullshit, though.
It is absolutely the case that some people are just naturally better salesmen than others. It's the case that some people are more likable or relatable than others. It's been proven by study after study that marketing works.
BUT. The car salesman analogy fails when external factors are taken into account. Sometimes the other salesman is just selling a far cheaper car. It's not being a poor sport or being a whiny bitch or making excuses to point out that blue bloods buy players, it's simply a fact. There is still a window for an honest broker to close the deal with a premium recruit through honest salesmanship and pitching Big Picture ideals, but the playing field is certainly tilted up. There are players/families that will not be convinced under any circumstances that five to six figures of immediate benefits are not better than a chance (even a good chance) at millions.
So can certain members of the staff "do better" at recruiting? Sure. Have a few of them been dropping the ball lately? Sure. Is it necessarily even in their control to get EVERY SINGLE PLAYER that some here insist that they get? Hell no. They're not elite recruiters, but they're doing alright for boxing with one arm.
Fuck off. This is such a fucking beta bitch poast.
Close or fuck off.
Did you see what Malloe did in '19? Do that at every position.
Comments
It is absolutely the case that some people are just naturally better salesmen than others. It's the case that some people are more likable or relatable than others. It's been proven by study after study that marketing works.
BUT. The car salesman analogy fails when external factors are taken into account. Sometimes the other salesman is just selling a far cheaper car. It's not being a poor sport or being a whiny bitch or making excuses to point out that blue bloods buy players, it's simply a fact. There is still a window for an honest broker to close the deal with a premium recruit through honest salesmanship and pitching Big Picture ideals, but the playing field is certainly tilted up. There are players/families that will not be convinced under any circumstances that five to six figures of immediate benefits are not better than a chance (even a good chance) at millions.
So can certain members of the staff "do better" at recruiting? Sure. Have a few of them been dropping the ball lately? Sure. Is it necessarily even in their control to get EVERY SINGLE PLAYER that some here insist that they get? Hell no. They're not elite recruiters, but they're doing alright for boxing with one arm.
...
But I'll accept "boxing with one arm".
2. Not a single person on here thinks UDUB is going to get every player they choose.
Saying so waters down the standard and pressure our staff and AD should be under. Do we wanna go back to when we said we couldn’t get anyone cuz we went 1-10 and 0-12? Do you think Bama, Clemson, and Ohio State day “I hate recruiting because there’s too much pressure not to lose every single kid we like out of HS?” No they fucking wanna win and know they need as many of the best players as possible to do so no matter if that means people feel pressure.
3. Faatui Tuitele was about to commit to Ohio State and then the Zach Smith story dropped as he was finishing his visits. Johnny Nansen and his paycheck were assumed to be in 2nd place. He’s going to UDUB. How’d that happen? Do you know UDUB doesn’t play to get players? What if EVERYONE is paying players like people always say, wouldnt the school and the brand and the program matter a ton if everyone is paying the same price?
4. Just because you can’t control everything doesn’t mean you let any of your standards drop. If our AD is doing stupid shit and not representing who we are as fans and what we pay money for and doesn’t illustrate the BEST THINGS about everything WE love about UDUB, we don’t just say “welp Bama is paying kids I guess we give up”. Just like you said it absolutely comes down to who’s the better and more relatable person. The problem is if we have a nice person like Bob Gregory for some reason our fan base can’t also say he’s not relatable and shitty at a huge part of his job and it’s not good enough to win a natty. Tosh bought so many recruits and all that but what happened when he wasn’t good enough at his job to win a natty, he’s gone.
Close or fuck off.
Did you see what Malloe did in '19? Do that at every position.
FUCK YOU.