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Trump is an outsider

dhdawgdhdawg Member Posts: 13,326
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in Tug Tavern
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/politics/ct-trump-swamp-donors-lobbyists-20161112-story.html

y'all have been had. and it was obvious all along
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    2001400ex2001400ex Member Posts: 29,457
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    His own words, he's walked back about half his platform and he hasn't even been inaugurated yet.

    But he's honest and going to do what's right for the average American.
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    mobeymobey Member Posts: 3,254
    5 Up Votes 5 Awesomes First Anniversary First Comment
    Wants to get rid of Obama Care...

    Except for the mandate not allowing insurance companies to deny based on existing conditions.

    LOL

    Only works if 1) Govt subsidies to insurance companies 2) mandate that healthy be required to buy insurance with penalties for non compliance or 3) both

    You know...

    Obama Care.
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    greenbloodgreenblood Member Posts: 14,303
    First Anniversary 5 Awesomes First Comment Combo Breaker
    mobey said:

    Wants to get rid of Obama Care...

    Except for the mandate not allowing insurance companies to deny based on existing conditions.

    LOL

    Only works if 1) Govt subsidies to insurance companies 2) mandate that healthy be required to buy insurance with penalties for non compliance or 3) both

    You know...

    Obama Care.

    I'm still a proponent of a single payer system and a private system. You can opt into a basic level government policy funded by tax dollars, or opt out and get a more comprehensive policy in the open market which would be fully tax deductible.
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    greenbloodgreenblood Member Posts: 14,303
    First Anniversary 5 Awesomes First Comment Combo Breaker
    So I suppose you'd be happier with Joe the plumber?
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    UWhuskytskeetUWhuskytskeet Member Posts: 7,108
    First Anniversary 5 Up Votes 5 Awesomes First Answer
    greenblood said:

    mobey said:

    Wants to get rid of Obama Care...

    Except for the mandate not allowing insurance companies to deny based on existing conditions.

    LOL

    Only works if 1) Govt subsidies to insurance companies 2) mandate that healthy be required to buy insurance with penalties for non compliance or 3) both

    You know...

    Obama Care.

    I'm still a proponent of a single payer system and a private system. You can opt into a basic level government policy funded by tax dollars, or opt out and get a more comprehensive policy in the open market which would be fully tax deductible.
    That's pretty much how the NHS of the UK works.
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    greenbloodgreenblood Member Posts: 14,303
    First Anniversary 5 Awesomes First Comment Combo Breaker
    edited November 2016
    UWhuskytskeet said:

    greenblood said:

    mobey said:

    Wants to get rid of Obama Care...

    Except for the mandate not allowing insurance companies to deny based on existing conditions.

    LOL

    Only works if 1) Govt subsidies to insurance companies 2) mandate that healthy be required to buy insurance with penalties for non compliance or 3) both

    You know...

    Obama Care.

    I'm still a proponent of a single payer system and a private system. You can opt into a basic level government policy funded by tax dollars, or opt out and get a more comprehensive policy in the open market which would be fully tax deductible.
    That's pretty much how the NHS of the UK works.
    It's off topic, but providing at least minimal care to all citizens should be done, but also keeping the individuals right to purchase their own care. Since they are opting out of a system they are paying for through taxes, they should have the costs of their private plan deducted from their taxable income.
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    2001400ex2001400ex Member Posts: 29,457
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    WeAreAFatLesboSchool said:

    People forget that Trump didn't make campaign promises, he stated opening positions in negotiations. That's what business people do

    I'm surprised some of you are surprised.

    So Obama lied. But Trump is starting negotiations. Got it.
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    topdawgnctopdawgnc Member Posts: 7,838
    First Anniversary 5 Awesomes 5 Up Votes Name Dropper
    greenblood said:

    mobey said:

    Wants to get rid of Obama Care...

    Except for the mandate not allowing insurance companies to deny based on existing conditions.

    LOL

    Only works if 1) Govt subsidies to insurance companies 2) mandate that healthy be required to buy insurance with penalties for non compliance or 3) both

    You know...

    Obama Care.

    I'm still a proponent of a single payer system and a private system. You can opt into a basic level government policy funded by tax dollars, or opt out and get a more comprehensive policy in the open market which would be fully tax deductible.
    I'm interested to know how this would work.

    The private companies would go broke.

    You know, and I know ... hell even @collegdoog knows, that the average American is so fucking stupid that if given the option of "free" health care or paying for it (even with full tax deductions) ... there is no choice.

    Obamacare was designed to fail, which would force a single payer system.

    So far the failure is well on track.
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    PurpleJPurpleJ Member, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 36,637
    First Anniversary 5 Up Votes 5 Awesomes Combo Breaker
    Swaye's Wigwam
    You can keep your doctor, but only if you like him.
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    greenbloodgreenblood Member Posts: 14,303
    First Anniversary 5 Awesomes First Comment Combo Breaker
    topdawgnc said:

    greenblood said:

    mobey said:

    Wants to get rid of Obama Care...

    Except for the mandate not allowing insurance companies to deny based on existing conditions.

    LOL

    Only works if 1) Govt subsidies to insurance companies 2) mandate that healthy be required to buy insurance with penalties for non compliance or 3) both

    You know...

    Obama Care.

    I'm still a proponent of a single payer system and a private system. You can opt into a basic level government policy funded by tax dollars, or opt out and get a more comprehensive policy in the open market which would be fully tax deductible.
    I'm interested to know how this would work.

    The private companies would go broke.

    You know, and I know ... hell even @collegdoog knows, that the average American is so fucking stupid that if given the option of "free" health care or paying for it (even with full tax deductions) ... there is no choice.

    Obamacare was designed to fail, which would force a single payer system.

    So far the failure is well on track.
    Rich people who are more healthy will pay more for Cadillac coverage. That's how the private carriers will make money. Less premium but higher margins.
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    topdawgnctopdawgnc Member Posts: 7,838
    First Anniversary 5 Awesomes 5 Up Votes Name Dropper
    greenblood said:

    topdawgnc said:

    greenblood said:

    mobey said:

    Wants to get rid of Obama Care...

    Except for the mandate not allowing insurance companies to deny based on existing conditions.

    LOL

    Only works if 1) Govt subsidies to insurance companies 2) mandate that healthy be required to buy insurance with penalties for non compliance or 3) both

    You know...

    Obama Care.

    I'm still a proponent of a single payer system and a private system. You can opt into a basic level government policy funded by tax dollars, or opt out and get a more comprehensive policy in the open market which would be fully tax deductible.
    I'm interested to know how this would work.

    The private companies would go broke.

    You know, and I know ... hell even @collegdoog knows, that the average American is so fucking stupid that if given the option of "free" health care or paying for it (even with full tax deductions) ... there is no choice.

    Obamacare was designed to fail, which would force a single payer system.

    So far the failure is well on track.
    Rich people who are more healthy will pay more for Cadillac coverage. That's how the private carriers will make money. Less premium but higher margins.
    Interesting theory.

    Not so sure it would work in reality.

    I think rich people would game the system.

    And

    Not enough to offset the loses the private carriers would be forced to face in helping the piss poor govt version.
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    2001400ex2001400ex Member Posts: 29,457
    First Anniversary First Comment 5 Up Votes 5 Awesomes
    topdawgnc said:

    greenblood said:

    mobey said:

    Wants to get rid of Obama Care...

    Except for the mandate not allowing insurance companies to deny based on existing conditions.

    LOL

    Only works if 1) Govt subsidies to insurance companies 2) mandate that healthy be required to buy insurance with penalties for non compliance or 3) both

    You know...

    Obama Care.

    I'm still a proponent of a single payer system and a private system. You can opt into a basic level government policy funded by tax dollars, or opt out and get a more comprehensive policy in the open market which would be fully tax deductible.
    I'm interested to know how this would work.

    The private companies would go broke.

    You know, and I know ... hell even @collegdoog knows, that the average American is so fucking stupid that if given the option of "free" health care or paying for it (even with full tax deductions) ... there is no choice.

    Obamacare was designed to fail, which would force a single payer system.

    So far the failure is well on track.
    No. Adding millions to the pool of insured isn't a path to single payer.

    Obamacare isn't working the best because Republicans have refused to do anything to try to fix it. Their only solution is to repeal. Now Trump wants to repeal but keep 90% of it.
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    topdawgnctopdawgnc Member Posts: 7,838
    First Anniversary 5 Awesomes 5 Up Votes Name Dropper
    2001400ex said:

    topdawgnc said:

    greenblood said:

    mobey said:

    Wants to get rid of Obama Care...

    Except for the mandate not allowing insurance companies to deny based on existing conditions.

    LOL

    Only works if 1) Govt subsidies to insurance companies 2) mandate that healthy be required to buy insurance with penalties for non compliance or 3) both

    You know...

    Obama Care.

    I'm still a proponent of a single payer system and a private system. You can opt into a basic level government policy funded by tax dollars, or opt out and get a more comprehensive policy in the open market which would be fully tax deductible.
    I'm interested to know how this would work.

    The private companies would go broke.

    You know, and I know ... hell even @collegdoog knows, that the average American is so fucking stupid that if given the option of "free" health care or paying for it (even with full tax deductions) ... there is no choice.

    Obamacare was designed to fail, which would force a single payer system.

    So far the failure is well on track.
    No. Adding millions to the pool of insured isn't a path to single payer.

    Obamacare isn't working the best because Republicans have refused to do anything to try to fix it. Their only solution is to repeal. Now Trump wants to repeal but keep 90% of it.
    Where do you make this shit up from?
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    2001400ex2001400ex Member Posts: 29,457
    First Anniversary First Comment 5 Up Votes 5 Awesomes
    edited November 2016
    topdawgnc said:

    2001400ex said:

    topdawgnc said:

    greenblood said:

    mobey said:

    Wants to get rid of Obama Care...

    Except for the mandate not allowing insurance companies to deny based on existing conditions.

    LOL

    Only works if 1) Govt subsidies to insurance companies 2) mandate that healthy be required to buy insurance with penalties for non compliance or 3) both

    You know...

    Obama Care.

    I'm still a proponent of a single payer system and a private system. You can opt into a basic level government policy funded by tax dollars, or opt out and get a more comprehensive policy in the open market which would be fully tax deductible.
    I'm interested to know how this would work.

    The private companies would go broke.

    You know, and I know ... hell even @collegdoog knows, that the average American is so fucking stupid that if given the option of "free" health care or paying for it (even with full tax deductions) ... there is no choice.

    Obamacare was designed to fail, which would force a single payer system.

    So far the failure is well on track.
    No. Adding millions to the pool of insured isn't a path to single payer.

    Obamacare isn't working the best because Republicans have refused to do anything to try to fix it. Their only solution is to repeal. Now Trump wants to repeal but keep 90% of it.
    Where do you make this shit up from?
    From Trump's mouth. With my added sarcasm to piss you off.
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    ThomasFremontThomasFremont Member Posts: 13,325
    First Anniversary First Comment 5 Up Votes 5 Awesomes
    topdawgnc said:

    2001400ex said:

    topdawgnc said:

    greenblood said:

    mobey said:

    Wants to get rid of Obama Care...

    Except for the mandate not allowing insurance companies to deny based on existing conditions.

    LOL

    Only works if 1) Govt subsidies to insurance companies 2) mandate that healthy be required to buy insurance with penalties for non compliance or 3) both

    You know...

    Obama Care.

    I'm still a proponent of a single payer system and a private system. You can opt into a basic level government policy funded by tax dollars, or opt out and get a more comprehensive policy in the open market which would be fully tax deductible.
    I'm interested to know how this would work.

    The private companies would go broke.

    You know, and I know ... hell even @collegdoog knows, that the average American is so fucking stupid that if given the option of "free" health care or paying for it (even with full tax deductions) ... there is no choice.

    Obamacare was designed to fail, which would force a single payer system.

    So far the failure is well on track.
    No. Adding millions to the pool of insured isn't a path to single payer.

    Obamacare isn't working the best because Republicans have refused to do anything to try to fix it. Their only solution is to repeal. Now Trump wants to repeal but keep 90% of it.
    Where do you make this shit up from?
    I don't know about the % Hondo is pulling out of his ass, but...

    It's easy to promise to repeal when you are running, but then you win, and you see how many of your citizens lose their coverage if you do, and it becomes less cut and dry. Especially when some of those people voted for you.

    My bold prediction is he keeps some (most?) of it, changes a few things, and slaps his name on it.

    Prepare for Trumpcare. It's a lot like Romneycare Obamacare.
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    topdawgnctopdawgnc Member Posts: 7,838
    First Anniversary 5 Awesomes 5 Up Votes Name Dropper
    ThomasFremont said:

    topdawgnc said:

    2001400ex said:

    topdawgnc said:

    greenblood said:

    mobey said:

    Wants to get rid of Obama Care...

    Except for the mandate not allowing insurance companies to deny based on existing conditions.

    LOL

    Only works if 1) Govt subsidies to insurance companies 2) mandate that healthy be required to buy insurance with penalties for non compliance or 3) both

    You know...

    Obama Care.

    I'm still a proponent of a single payer system and a private system. You can opt into a basic level government policy funded by tax dollars, or opt out and get a more comprehensive policy in the open market which would be fully tax deductible.
    I'm interested to know how this would work.

    The private companies would go broke.

    You know, and I know ... hell even @collegdoog knows, that the average American is so fucking stupid that if given the option of "free" health care or paying for it (even with full tax deductions) ... there is no choice.

    Obamacare was designed to fail, which would force a single payer system.

    So far the failure is well on track.
    No. Adding millions to the pool of insured isn't a path to single payer.

    Obamacare isn't working the best because Republicans have refused to do anything to try to fix it. Their only solution is to repeal. Now Trump wants to repeal but keep 90% of it.
    Where do you make this shit up from?
    I don't know about the % Hondo is pulling out of his ass, but...

    It's easy to promise to repeal when you are running, but then you win, and you see how many of your citizens lose their coverage if you do, and it becomes less cut and dry. Especially when some of those people voted for you.

    My bold prediction is he keeps some (most?) of it, changes a few things, and slaps his name on it.

    Prepare for Trumpcare. It's a lot like Romneycare Obamacare.
    I get it.

    But ...

    There is a good article in the WSJ today about the GOP strategy and how it paid off over time.

    The reality is it was born to fail.

    The goal was never to give everyone healthcare, it was to control healthcare ... and always has been.

    You can't get single payer ... even with a super majority. So you design something so monsterous and so reliant on the youth ... it collapses and the government is forced to step in and save it.

    There is enough structure there to band-aid a solution until a viable alternative can be launched.
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    PurpleThrobberPurpleThrobber Member Posts: 42,417
    First Anniversary First Comment 5 Awesomes 5 Up Votes
    2001400ex said:

    topdawgnc said:

    greenblood said:

    mobey said:

    Wants to get rid of Obama Care...

    Except for the mandate not allowing insurance companies to deny based on existing conditions.

    LOL

    Only works if 1) Govt subsidies to insurance companies 2) mandate that healthy be required to buy insurance with penalties for non compliance or 3) both

    You know...

    Obama Care.

    I'm still a proponent of a single payer system and a private system. You can opt into a basic level government policy funded by tax dollars, or opt out and get a more comprehensive policy in the open market which would be fully tax deductible.
    I'm interested to know how this would work.

    The private companies would go broke.

    You know, and I know ... hell even @collegdoog knows, that the average American is so fucking stupid that if given the option of "free" health care or paying for it (even with full tax deductions) ... there is no choice.

    Obamacare was designed to fail, which would force a single payer system.

    So far the failure is well on track.
    No. Adding millions to the pool of insured isn't a path to single payer.

    Obamacare isn't working the best because Republicans have refused to do anything to try to fix it. Their only solution is to repeal. Now Trump wants to repeal but keep 90% of it.
    The first 90% is consensual.
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    2001400ex2001400ex Member Posts: 29,457
    First Anniversary First Comment 5 Up Votes 5 Awesomes
    topdawgnc said:

    ThomasFremont said:

    topdawgnc said:

    2001400ex said:

    topdawgnc said:

    greenblood said:

    mobey said:

    Wants to get rid of Obama Care...

    Except for the mandate not allowing insurance companies to deny based on existing conditions.

    LOL

    Only works if 1) Govt subsidies to insurance companies 2) mandate that healthy be required to buy insurance with penalties for non compliance or 3) both

    You know...

    Obama Care.

    I'm still a proponent of a single payer system and a private system. You can opt into a basic level government policy funded by tax dollars, or opt out and get a more comprehensive policy in the open market which would be fully tax deductible.
    I'm interested to know how this would work.

    The private companies would go broke.

    You know, and I know ... hell even @collegdoog knows, that the average American is so fucking stupid that if given the option of "free" health care or paying for it (even with full tax deductions) ... there is no choice.

    Obamacare was designed to fail, which would force a single payer system.

    So far the failure is well on track.
    No. Adding millions to the pool of insured isn't a path to single payer.

    Obamacare isn't working the best because Republicans have refused to do anything to try to fix it. Their only solution is to repeal. Now Trump wants to repeal but keep 90% of it.
    Where do you make this shit up from?
    I don't know about the % Hondo is pulling out of his ass, but...

    It's easy to promise to repeal when you are running, but then you win, and you see how many of your citizens lose their coverage if you do, and it becomes less cut and dry. Especially when some of those people voted for you.

    My bold prediction is he keeps some (most?) of it, changes a few things, and slaps his name on it.

    Prepare for Trumpcare. It's a lot like Romneycare Obamacare.
    I get it.

    But ...

    There is a good article in the WSJ today about the GOP strategy and how it paid off over time.

    The reality is it was born to fail.

    The goal was never to give everyone healthcare, it was to control healthcare ... and always has been.

    You can't get single payer ... even with a super majority. So you design something so monsterous and so reliant on the youth ... it collapses and the government is forced to step in and save it.

    There is enough structure there to band-aid a solution until a viable alternative can be launched.
    Actually it does not control health care.

    But getting past that, it was designed a base template to be improved over time as the need arises. And Democrats were stupid enough to think they could compromise to fix shit with it.
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    ThomasFremontThomasFremont Member Posts: 13,325
    First Anniversary First Comment 5 Up Votes 5 Awesomes
    topdawgnc said:

    ThomasFremont said:

    topdawgnc said:

    2001400ex said:

    topdawgnc said:

    greenblood said:

    mobey said:

    Wants to get rid of Obama Care...

    Except for the mandate not allowing insurance companies to deny based on existing conditions.

    LOL

    Only works if 1) Govt subsidies to insurance companies 2) mandate that healthy be required to buy insurance with penalties for non compliance or 3) both

    You know...

    Obama Care.

    I'm still a proponent of a single payer system and a private system. You can opt into a basic level government policy funded by tax dollars, or opt out and get a more comprehensive policy in the open market which would be fully tax deductible.
    I'm interested to know how this would work.

    The private companies would go broke.

    You know, and I know ... hell even @collegdoog knows, that the average American is so fucking stupid that if given the option of "free" health care or paying for it (even with full tax deductions) ... there is no choice.

    Obamacare was designed to fail, which would force a single payer system.

    So far the failure is well on track.
    No. Adding millions to the pool of insured isn't a path to single payer.

    Obamacare isn't working the best because Republicans have refused to do anything to try to fix it. Their only solution is to repeal. Now Trump wants to repeal but keep 90% of it.
    Where do you make this shit up from?
    I don't know about the % Hondo is pulling out of his ass, but...

    It's easy to promise to repeal when you are running, but then you win, and you see how many of your citizens lose their coverage if you do, and it becomes less cut and dry. Especially when some of those people voted for you.

    My bold prediction is he keeps some (most?) of it, changes a few things, and slaps his name on it.

    Prepare for Trumpcare. It's a lot like Romneycare Obamacare.
    I get it.

    But ...

    There is a good article in the WSJ today about the GOP strategy and how it paid off over time.

    The reality is it was born to fail.

    The goal was never to give everyone healthcare, it was to control healthcare ... and always has been.

    You can't get single payer ... even with a super majority. So you design something so monsterous and so reliant on the youth ... it collapses and the government is forced to step in and save it.

    There is enough structure there to band-aid a solution until a viable alternative can be launched.
    I read it, and I don't disagree with it.

    But is it about control? Or is it about removing the profit motive from healthcare?

    I tend to think it's the latter. Same idea behind banning private prisons. The profit motive has it's place, but it shouldn't be everywhere.
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