Priorities for 2017
Comments
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Thank for showing @Tequilla that HE sucks at this analysis thingy. Fucking Christ he is dense.HoustonHusky said:Gaskin for 17
Gaskin for 1
Gaskin for 2
Gaskin for 11
Gaskin for 6
Gaskin for 53
Gaskin for 1 (TD)
Gaskin for 6
Gaskin for -1
Gaskin for 4
Gaskin for -2
Gaskin for 0
His first half was aok...take out the 53 yard run (and 1 yd TD run) and he still averaged 4.4 YPC
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Take out the 3 double digit runs and he was 9 for 17. In the 2nd half the trend continued.
Point being that the running game was not an effective source of ball movement in the game with the exception of the instances when Gaskin was able to break one ... which ended basically at the start of the 2nd quarter.
Some of you fucktards will argue anything to try to get one up on me ... but this isn't the argument. -
Take out the 3 runs that didn't get positive yardage and he was 9 for 101.Tequilla said:Take out the 3 double digit runs and he was 9 for 17. In the 2nd half the trend continued.
Point being that the running game was not an effective source of ball movement in the game with the exception of the instances when Gaskin was able to break one ... which ended basically at the start of the 2nd quarter.
Some of you fucktards will argue anything to try to get one up on me ... but this isn't the argument.
Taking out 25% of the runs on either end to suit your narrative is FS. -
Absolutely disagree.
Relying on your running game to me means that you're able to consistently rely on it and move the chains. If you're going heavy in the running game, then it means to me that you're valuing the 4-6 yards per carry way more than you are the chunk carries.
With respect to Gaskin and the ASU game, what the chunk yardage tells me is that he's obviously explosive and there are opportunities to find ways to get him in positions to make big gains. When you take out the chunk yardage though, it tells me that the running game wasn't being sustainable when it comes to moving the chains and lengthy drives.
Let me ask you the following from that game:
Was there anything in the ASU game that would have indicated to you that you would have expected say a 13 play, 80 yard drive where 9 of the 13 plays were running plays?
If you can't answer yes to that question, then you probably aren't working with a sustainable running game. -
...and ignoring 75% of the runs to suit your narrative may be even more FS.dnc said:
Take out the 3 runs that didn't get positive yardage and he was 9 for 101.Tequilla said:Take out the 3 double digit runs and he was 9 for 17. In the 2nd half the trend continued.
Point being that the running game was not an effective source of ball movement in the game with the exception of the instances when Gaskin was able to break one ... which ended basically at the start of the 2nd quarter.
Some of you fucktards will argue anything to try to get one up on me ... but this isn't the argument.
Taking out 25% of the runs on either end to suit your narrative is FS. -
Sticking to the run game is about a lot more than the yardage. It keeps the opponents pass rushers and safeties honest if we consistently run the ball, even if it isn't 100% successful. It opens up play action and more opportunities in the pass game.
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Who's ignoring 75% of them? Of those 12 runs, you could call 5 of them disappointments (the three that didn't gain positive yards, plus the non scoring 1 yard and the 2 yarder, assuming neither of them gained first downs). Maybe the 4 was disappointing, depending on down and distance, though it's unlikely. That leaves 6 runs, or half that were good or better. A touchdown, 2 6 yarders and three in double digits.HuskyInAZ said:
...and ignoring 75% of the runs to suit your narrative may be even more FS.dnc said:
Take out the 3 runs that didn't get positive yardage and he was 9 for 101.Tequilla said:Take out the 3 double digit runs and he was 9 for 17. In the 2nd half the trend continued.
Point being that the running game was not an effective source of ball movement in the game with the exception of the instances when Gaskin was able to break one ... which ended basically at the start of the 2nd quarter.
Some of you fucktards will argue anything to try to get one up on me ... but this isn't the argument.
Taking out 25% of the runs on either end to suit your narrative is FS.
You can't ignore the three long runs just like you can't ignore the three stuffs. They're both part of the story. But there's no sane way to look at that collection of rushing totals and conclude the rushing game was not sustainable.
And that's if you just look at the numbers. When you add in that it was Myles Gaskin running the ball and Jake Browning throwing the ball it should be plainly obvious we? should have ran the ball more. -
Browning first half dropbacks
Mickens for 21
Lenius for 5
Incomplete
Incomplete (3rd down failure)
Jake run for 3 (assuming this was called a pass)
Lenius for 3 (3rd down conversion)
Renfro for 13
Incomplete
Hall for 19
Incomplete
Incomplete (3rd down failure)
Daniels for 12
Incomplete
Jake run for 7 (assuming this was called a pass) (3rd down conversion)
Mickens for 17
Incomplete (3rd down failure)
Incomplete (4th down failure)
Daniels for 12
Perkins for 11
Incomplete
Renfro for 6
Gaskin for 3 (3rd down failure)
Daniels 29/TD
Lenius 5
Incomplete (3rd down failure)
Pettis 7
Incomplete (3rd down failure)
Incomplete
So Browning dropped back 28 times in the first half versus 12 Gaskin runs. If we take out the best 25% of those dropbacks you get 21 dropbacks for 50 yards. This seems like a great way to judge how well the passing game was working. -
I agree with that 100%.NEsnake12 said:Sticking to the run game is about a lot more than the yardage. It keeps the opponents pass rushers and safeties honest if we consistently run the ball, even if it isn't 100% successful. It opens up play action and more opportunities in the pass game.
But at the same time, when you look at what ASU does in how they blitz, they pretty much make most between the tackle running plays ineffective. Everything they do on defense is all about consistent blitzing and forcing the QB to have to make throws under pressure while getting hit early and often. They don't want to sit back and get picked apart. Instead, they want to go after 3 and outs and turnovers at the expense of giving up big plays.
Where you can hurt their defense is with quick throws behind the blitz where your receivers cleanly win the 1 on 1 game as well as finding ways to get your RBs into space 1 on 1 against LBs or Safeties.
In the running game, you're not going to change what they are going to defensively. Instead, what you can get out of the running game is some opportunities to break some plays if you can get them overrunning the run play, get a play call away from their blitz, etc.
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And 14 of those passes were either (incompletions, 3rd down non conversions or the short Browning scramble). So the passing game was just as frequently disappointing as the running game if not moreso.
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Point being nobody runs for 4 to 6 yards every play and nobody throws for 4 to 6 yards every play. That's a completely unrealistic expectation to put on the running game. If that's the standard we?'d abandon the run every game. Thankfully it's not.
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Run/Pass stats for notable teams (that actually attempt to run the ball) against ASU this year:
Texas A&M:
Rushing: 45 for 178 (4.0 yards per carry)
Passing: 19 of 35 for 247 (7.1 yards per attempt, 13.0 yards per completion)
USC:
Rushing: 32 for 76 (2.4 yards per carry)
Passing: 20 of 34 for 379 (11.1 yards per attempt, 19.0 yards per completion)
UCLA:
Rushing: 28 for 62 (2.2 yards per carry)
Passing: 22 of 40 for 280 (7 yards per attempt, 12.7 yards per completion)
Utah:
Rushing: 31 for 72 (2.3 yards per carry), included a 62 yard run
Passing: 26 of 36 for 297 (8.25 yards per attempt, 11.4 yards per completion)
Oregon:
Rushing: 28 of 184 (6.6 yards per carry), included a 64 and 62 yard run
Passing: 23 of 41 for 315 (7.7 yards per attempt, 13.7 yards per completion)
Washington:
Rushing: 34 for 152 (4.2 yards per carry), included a 53 yard run
Passing: 28 of 52 for 405 (7.8 yards per attempt, 14.5 yards per completion)
Arizona:
Rushing: 34 for 109 (3.2 yards per carry), included a 40 yard run
Passing 20 of 43 for 340 (7.9 yards per attempt, 17.0 yards per completion)
Cal:
Rushing: 22 for 138 (6.3 yards per carry)
Passing: 30 of 51 for 542 (10.6 yards per attempt, 18.1 yards per completion)
West Virginia:
Rushing: 33 for 144 (4.4 yards per carry)
Passing: 28 of 51 for 532 (10.4 yards per attempt, 19.0 yards per completion)
With all of these data points, it's impossible to not see that ASU in general is fairly good at slowing down running games. In the process, they'll give up a big run here and there but where you beat them is with explosive plays in the passing game. -
That's an argument that would make some sense if run plays and passing plays had the same frequency of chunk plays to them ... but they don't.dnc said:And 14 of those passes were either (incompletions, 3rd down non conversions or the short Browning scramble). So the passing game was just as frequently disappointing as the running game if not moreso.
With respect to Washington's play against ASU, each completion on average got 14-15 yards ... so if you're able to get a 1st down on average with each completion, the incompletions, etc. are not quite the issue.
And the reason why 3rd down conversions can be a problem with ASU is because if they can get you behind the sticks on 3rd down it allows them to change how they play defensively. It's critical that you're able to get positive gains on 1st and 2nd down against them to keep them from being able to just sit back and keep everything in front of them on 3rd down. -
Jesus fucking Christ @Tequilla, did you take your meds today? It's fucking February, we don't need to reanalyze how Peterman fucked up the ASU game. It's easy: they abandoned the run, case closed.
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UW was 24 for 135 on designed runs (5.625 ypc). I DGAF what other teams did against ASU when we had a far better running game than most of them. UW ran the ball well against ASU. We just didn't run it enough.Tequilla said:Run/Pass stats for notable teams (that actually attempt to run the ball) against ASU this year:
Texas A&M:
Rushing: 45 for 178 (4.0 yards per carry)
Passing: 19 of 35 for 247 (7.1 yards per attempt, 13.0 yards per completion)
USC:
Rushing: 32 for 76 (2.4 yards per carry)
Passing: 20 of 34 for 379 (11.1 yards per attempt, 19.0 yards per completion)
UCLA:
Rushing: 28 for 62 (2.2 yards per carry)
Passing: 22 of 40 for 280 (7 yards per attempt, 12.7 yards per completion)
Utah:
Rushing: 31 for 72 (2.3 yards per carry), included a 62 yard run
Passing: 26 of 36 for 297 (8.25 yards per attempt, 11.4 yards per completion)
Oregon:
Rushing: 28 of 184 (6.6 yards per carry), included a 64 and 62 yard run
Passing: 23 of 41 for 315 (7.7 yards per attempt, 13.7 yards per completion)
Washington:
Rushing: 34 for 152 (4.2 yards per carry), included a 53 yard run
Passing: 28 of 52 for 405 (7.8 yards per attempt, 14.5 yards per completion)
Arizona:
Rushing: 34 for 109 (3.2 yards per carry), included a 40 yard run
Passing 20 of 43 for 340 (7.9 yards per attempt, 17.0 yards per completion)
Cal:
Rushing: 22 for 138 (6.3 yards per carry)
Passing: 30 of 51 for 542 (10.6 yards per attempt, 18.1 yards per completion)
West Virginia:
Rushing: 33 for 144 (4.4 yards per carry)
Passing: 28 of 51 for 532 (10.4 yards per attempt, 19.0 yards per completion)
With all of these data points, it's impossible to not see that ASU in general is fairly good at slowing down running games. In the process, they'll give up a big run here and there but where you beat them is with explosive plays in the passing game. -
Dis-a-fucking-greedoogsinparadise said:Jesus fucking Christ @Tequilla, did you take your meds today? It's fucking February, we don't need to reanalyze how Peterman fucked up the ASU game. It's easy: they abandoned the run, case closed.
We lost the ASU game due to a failure to execute. We had more than enough yardage and opportunities to win the game.
Big difference between failure to execute versus failure to have a reasonable game plan.
As the game stats show, we actually had more success running against ASU than most teams. -
After the ASU game, Tequilla said it was inexcusable and that Smith needed to be fired. Now, he's on here defending why dropping back 60+ times was okay. But how is @Tequilla the exact same as @Auburndawg?
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Not sure who was at the ASU game, but I was there, and is was clear UW had wide open receivers deep consistently (due to ASU stacking the box). Either Browning missed (most often) or our WRs didn't make plays.
The ASU game had everything to do with missed opportunities in the 1st half and turnovers. Anytime you turn the ball over 4 times and your defense doesn't get any, there's a 95% chance you lose. It had very little to do with Gaskin's touches. For fuck's sake, we gained nearly 550 yards.
Regardless, Fuck Babushka !!! Right? -
While what you said is true, Smiff still is way below average.HuskyInAZ said:Not sure who was at the ASU game, but I was there, and is was clear UW had wide open receivers deep consistently (due to ASU stacking the box). Either Browning missed (most often) or our WRs didn't make plays.
The ASU game had everything to do with missed opportunities in the 1st half and turnovers. Anytime you turn the ball over 4 times and your defense doesn't get any, there's a 95% chance you lose. It had very little to do with Gaskin's touches. For fuck's sake, we gained nearly 550 yards.
Regardless, Fuck Babushka !!! Right?
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Who was missing those opportunities and coughing up those turnovers? The true freshman QB on the road. I wonder if running the ball more than 30% of the time could have taken some pressure of him? Nah.HuskyInAZ said:Not sure who was at the ASU game, but I was there, and is was clear UW had wide open receivers deep consistently (due to ASU stacking the box). Either Browning missed (most often) or our WRs didn't make plays.
The ASU game had everything to do with missed opportunities in the 1st half and turnovers. Anytime you turn the ball over 4 times and your defense doesn't get any, there's a 95% chance you lose. It had very little to do with Gaskin's touches. For fuck's sake, we gained nearly 550 yards.
Regardless, Fuck Babushka !!! Right?
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Sometimes it's interesting how when you say some things off the cuff and emotionally charged how when you look at things later, with a different perspective, and perhaps some information that you hadn't considered previously, you see some things differently.RoadDawg55 said:After the ASU game, Tequilla said it was inexcusable and that Smith needed to be fired. Now, he's on here defending why dropping back 60+ times was okay. But how is @Tequilla the exact same as @Auburndawg?
During and immediately after the game, there was no question that I was frustrated. I wasn't particularly happy with the execution during the game and I probably threw more of that on Petersen/Smith as a result. We had 557 yards of total offense and only 17 points. You've got to work really hard to be that inept. The two big things that really frustrated me after the game was putting the game all on Browning and the WRs (since we hadn't proved at that point that those guys could win a game for us) and that we allowed Gaskin to be taken out of the game. It's really the Gaskin issue that bothered me the most.
After looking at the stats of the game in more detail and understanding what ASU did throughout the season, the decision to focus on the passing game seems a little more understandable. And while it may not have seemed like it at the time, it does seem like Browning grew some from his failures in that game. Ultimately, it's why the difference between 7-6 and 8-5 or even 9-4 may not have mattered too much last year because so much of the year was about developing players and getting them the experience necessary.
Where I'd really challenge Smith in the aftermath of that game would be in finding more ways to get Gaskin the ball and handle ASU's pressure through the RB screen game and some swing routes. Now, what I don't know is how comfortable Gaskin is with some of those types of situations (i.e. the swing route) but I do think that they needed to find a few more ways to get him the ball and ideally in positions where he could have been isolated in space. I'd have to go look at the game log again but I seem to recall that there were some 2nd and short, 3rd and short, etc. opportunities where Smith called for pass plays versus run plays. For as much as forcing Browning to grow during a game can be stated, putting the OL in a position where they need to execute also was room for growth. Going jumbo a few times would actually have mitigated the traditional ASU blitz package and allowed the OL to be able to go more hat on hat instead of trying to feel like they were getting overrun like they were for large chunks of the day. But there were definitely some opportunities to be more dictated in our formation to get players in easier to execute situations. That's a giant criticism of Smith and general and why I'm still not sold on him as OC.
Regarding Smith, I do recognize some of the limitations that he has had to work with over the last couple of years. The production the last half of the season obviously was much better ... although the execution at times lacking (and also a product of some of the player limitations). He still has to prove that he's not a complete fucktard and I think there's a very good reason why Petersen only gave him a 1 year extension whereas everybody else got 2 years.
On the whole though, I was generally pleased with the growth of the team and players last year. I do see a strong foundation that has been laid for the 2016 season and beyond. I do think that there were times that we took some lumps that could have been avoidable. But on the other hand, some of the best ways to learn is to get smacked in the face a few times. When I look at the program as a whole at this point, the only real question marks that I have are Smith, whether we'll ever be able to develop/recruit WRs, and some AD related issues. Other than that, it's really hard for me to find much to criticize. After the last 15 years, while I'm not going to be happy until these items get proved to me, I'm also not going to go jump off of the Aurora Bridge. There's a lot of programs right now that have it a lot worse than we do. -
Football just isn't this fucking complex. Petermen and SMiff would love you to think it is. But it isn't.
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Tequilla said:
Sometimes it's interesting how when you say some things off the cuff and emotionally charged how when you look at things later, with a different perspective, and perhaps some information that you hadn't considered previously, you see some things differently.RoadDawg55 said:After the ASU game, Tequilla said it was inexcusable and that Smith needed to be fired. Now, he's on here defending why dropping back 60+ times was okay. But how is @Tequilla the exact same as @Auburndawg?
During and immediately after the game, there was no question that I was frustrated. I wasn't particularly happy with the execution during the game and I probably threw more of that on Petersen/Smith as a result. We had 557 yards of total offense and only 17 points. You've got to work really hard to be that inept. The two big things that really frustrated me after the game was putting the game all on Browning and the WRs (since we hadn't proved at that point that those guys could win a game for us) and that we allowed Gaskin to be taken out of the game. It's really the Gaskin issue that bothered me the most.
After looking at the stats of the game in more detail and understanding what ASU did throughout the season, the decision to focus on the passing game seems a little more understandable. And while it may not have seemed like it at the time, it does seem like Browning grew some from his failures in that game. Ultimately, it's why the difference between 7-6 and 8-5 or even 9-4 may not have mattered too much last year because so much of the year was about developing players and getting them the experience necessary.
Where I'd really challenge Smith in the aftermath of that game would be in finding more ways to get Gaskin the ball and handle ASU's pressure through the RB screen game and some swing routes. Now, what I don't know is how comfortable Gaskin is with some of those types of situations (i.e. the swing route) but I do think that they needed to find a few more ways to get him the ball and ideally in positions where he could have been isolated in space. I'd have to go look at the game log again but I seem to recall that there were some 2nd and short, 3rd and short, etc. opportunities where Smith called for pass plays versus run plays. For as much as forcing Browning to grow during a game can be stated, putting the OL in a position where they need to execute also was room for growth. Going jumbo a few times would actually have mitigated the traditional ASU blitz package and allowed the OL to be able to go more hat on hat instead of trying to feel like they were getting overrun like they were for large chunks of the day. But there were definitely some opportunities to be more dictated in our formation to get players in easier to execute situations. That's a giant criticism of Smith and general and why I'm still not sold on him as OC.
Regarding Smith, I do recognize some of the limitations that he has had to work with over the last couple of years. The production the last half of the season obviously was much better ... although the execution at times lacking (and also a product of some of the player limitations). He still has to prove that he's not a complete fucktard and I think there's a very good reason why Petersen only gave him a 1 year extension whereas everybody else got 2 years.
On the whole though, I was generally pleased with the growth of the team and players last year. I do see a strong foundation that has been laid for the 2016 season and beyond. I do think that there were times that we took some lumps that could have been avoidable. But on the other hand, some of the best ways to learn is to get smacked in the face a few times. When I look at the program as a whole at this point, the only real question marks that I have are Smith, whether we'll ever be able to develop/recruit WRs, and some AD related issues. Other than that, it's really hard for me to find much to criticize. After the last 15 years, while I'm not going to be happy until these items get proved to me, I'm also not going to go jump off of the Aurora Bridge. There's a lot of programs right now that have it a lot worse than we do. -
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Beat Oregon is 2016 top priority
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HUSKYFANATIC said:
Beat OregonWatch Taylor Rapp decepitate Gabe Marks in the Apple Cup is 2016 top priority -
UW didn't run the ball enough with Shaq in 2014 and lost to Graham because of it. They were pounding his soft pussy every time, even when ASU loaded the box. No reason to think it would have been any different in 2015 with Gaskin in there, imo.
A dropped pass is a run for 0 yards where you didn't physically punish/wear out the defense at the point of attack. Passing the ball the majority of the time let ASU's defense off the hook. Pretty simple.
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HUSKYFANATIC said:
Beat Oregon in 2016 nothing else matters
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Coog logic. But we gained all the yards!HuskyInAZ said:Not sure who was at the ASU game, but I was there, and is was clear UW had wide open receivers deep consistently (due to ASU stacking the box). Either Browning missed (most often) or our WRs didn't make plays.
The ASU game had everything to do with missed opportunities in the 1st half and turnovers. Anytime you turn the ball over 4 times and your defense doesn't get any, there's a 95% chance you lose. It had very little to do with Gaskin's touches. For fuck's sake, we gained nearly 550 yards.
Regardless, Fuck Babushka !!! Right? -
What more do you want?doogsinparadise said:
Coog logic. But we gained all the yards!HuskyInAZ said:Not sure who was at the ASU game, but I was there, and is was clear UW had wide open receivers deep consistently (due to ASU stacking the box). Either Browning missed (most often) or our WRs didn't make plays.
The ASU game had everything to do with missed opportunities in the 1st half and turnovers. Anytime you turn the ball over 4 times and your defense doesn't get any, there's a 95% chance you lose. It had very little to do with Gaskin's touches. For fuck's sake, we gained nearly 550 yards.
Regardless, Fuck Babushka !!! Right?
