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Woodward Sells the Couch

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Comments

  • section_332section_332 Member Posts: 2,403
    Woody knows JFF ain't they're anymore rite?
  • TequillaTequilla Member Posts: 19,825
    And people were wondering today why John wouldn't get off of his phone between games today ...
  • topdawgnctopdawgnc Member Posts: 7,838

    Disagree on Rich Rod. That was hiring Ty after he failed at Notre Dame. And now RR is flailing at Arizona.

    That being said, hiring a football coach is a crap shoot. If this guy is a big football booster type then you give hi a look

    Not everything in the world is comparable to Willingham.
    I didn't say everything in the world is. This is a direct comparison though

    Coach has some minor success at a lower major school, gets hired by a big time program and shits the bed and gets fired.

    Gets hired by another school right after being fired. No real half brain would have gone for that. Oh, and he sucks. Not 0-12 suck but he sucks
    Anyone who actually paid attention to the Rodriguez fiasco in Michigan knows he didn't get a fair shake. He was marked from the start, and his spread offense was not a good fit for the big money donors who insisted on a pro-style offense for the Wolverines. There is absolutely no comparison to be had with Willingham's tenure at Notre Dame, where he was a self-inflicted disaster from the beginning.

    I know you like to boil every situation down to easily digestible comparisons that the lowest common denominators on this board can actually understand, but you're way off base here. Again.
    I paid attention to Rich Rod in Michigan, mainly because my in-laws are alumni.

    He shit the bed with Michigan. Plain and simple.

    There was a foundation there, and he blew up to bring in his own guys and build a run and gun spread offense. He ran off good players ... and even let one big name go to tOSU.

    Also, if you look at his time at WVU ... without Pat White he was at best an 8-4 coach.

    The Duck is happy to point out Peterman's biggest success was with Moore, but he thinks Rich Rod is all of that.

    Rich Rod wanted the hell out of Arizona because he will be fired next year.
  • PurpleThrobberPurpleThrobber Member Posts: 43,682 Standard Supporter
    edited January 2016
    digits said:

    6.9 seconds start now.

    The Aggie money guys don't fuck around. Woody better have a golden parachute.

    Weren't you the one saying those Tejas BIG BOYS would never hire Woodward?
    I don't believe that's what I said. I said he wouldn't last. 6.9 seconds if you are literal motherfucker, so let me know when the clock starts ticking.

    They will fuck him raw. And smile about it.

    Texas Forevah!

  • TequillaTequilla Member Posts: 19,825
    Pepsi is pretty much dialed in here ... although if Jen Cohen is hired I don't think that we'll even go through the motions of hiring a search firm.

    First time ADs really shouldn't be at the UW ... this would be the 2nd straight. This is not a training wheels kind of job.

    Hiring Cohen in my mind basically confirms the budget issues that have been rumored in the Athletic Department and really aren't all that shocking given the poor attendance for football this year and basketball the last few years. Since the UW AD has never been supported by having the kind of whale donators that you see so often in the SEC, Big 12, etc., when we're light in Joe Alumni's support, it creates problems. It's a strong indicator in my mind why Romar's got so much job security (when he shouldn't) because we don't have the means in place to cover his buyout.

    The joke of the matter in all of this though is that what is needed is an experienced AD that really knows how to mobilize a base and turn around the budget deficit. It takes money to make money.

    The other big issue that Pepsi brings up that is 100% true is that the AD needs a strong overhaul, particularly with regard to the marketing of the program as well as in-game presentation. From the surveys that have been sent out this year, it's clear that the AD realizes there is a problem but the general sense is that there aren't a lot of answers or solutions coming from within (and that's not surprising given that they've had to resort to sending out the surveys and that it ever got to that point). It would IMO be very difficult for Cohen to take over the lead spot in the AD and make all the moves necessary given the familiarity and closeness with the program. She may make some changes but it will likely only be a fraction of what is needed and moreover there's always the question of what kind of buy in that she would get from the department as a whole from those that either wanted other people or even the job themselves.

    The reality is that the problems in the UW AD start with the current administration as a whole but also extends to the alumni/donor base as well. It's really the #1 priority for the sports programs at this point.
  • AtomicDawgAtomicDawg Member Posts: 7,046 Standard Supporter
    I expect a downgrade. We are going to hire some transgender bulldyke.
  • pawzpawz Member, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 20,083 Founders Club
    Tequilla said:

    Pepsi is pretty much dialed in here ...

    Half-pregnant?
  • Doog_de_JourDoog_de_Jour Member Posts: 7,969 Standard Supporter
    Tequilla said:

    Hiring Cohen in my mind basically confirms the budget issues that have been rumored in the Athletic Department and really aren't all that shocking given the poor attendance for football this year and basketball the last few years. Since the UW AD has never been supported by having the kind of whale donators that you see so often in the SEC, Big 12, etc., when we're light in Joe Alumni's support, it creates problems. It's a strong indicator in my mind why Romar's got so much job security (when he shouldn't) because we don't have the means in place to cover his buyout.

    The joke of the matter in all of this though is that what is needed is an experienced AD that really knows how to mobilize a base and turn around the budget deficit. It takes money to make money.

    The other big issue that Pepsi brings up that is 100% true is that the AD needs a strong overhaul, particularly with regard to the marketing of the program as well as in-game presentation. From the surveys that have been sent out this year, it's clear that the AD realizes there is a problem but the general sense is that there aren't a lot of answers or solutions coming from within (and that's not surprising given that they've had to resort to sending out the surveys and that it ever got to that point). It would IMO be very difficult for Cohen to take over the lead spot in the AD and make all the moves necessary given the familiarity and closeness with the program. She may make some changes but it will likely only be a fraction of what is needed and moreover there's always the question of what kind of buy in that she would get from the department as a whole from those that either wanted other people or even the job themselves.

    The reality is that the problems in the UW AD start with the current administration as a whole but also extends to the alumni/donor base as well. It's really the #1 priority for the sports programs at this point.

    Wow. After reading that I'm worried Woodward leaving is going to be a jumping from the frying pan into the fire type situation.

    If money is an issue, is there a viable economical alternative to hiring someone internal? I know we're afraid of UW being anyone's training wheels, but wouldn't it be better to get some hungry, ambitious individual from a smaller school that would at least bring in some fresh ideas?
  • section8section8 Member Posts: 1,581
    No one currently at UW deserves this job. Blow it the fuck up and bring an experienced AD in here.


  • TequillaTequilla Member Posts: 19,825

    Tequilla said:

    Hiring Cohen in my mind basically confirms the budget issues that have been rumored in the Athletic Department and really aren't all that shocking given the poor attendance for football this year and basketball the last few years. Since the UW AD has never been supported by having the kind of whale donators that you see so often in the SEC, Big 12, etc., when we're light in Joe Alumni's support, it creates problems. It's a strong indicator in my mind why Romar's got so much job security (when he shouldn't) because we don't have the means in place to cover his buyout.

    The joke of the matter in all of this though is that what is needed is an experienced AD that really knows how to mobilize a base and turn around the budget deficit. It takes money to make money.

    The other big issue that Pepsi brings up that is 100% true is that the AD needs a strong overhaul, particularly with regard to the marketing of the program as well as in-game presentation. From the surveys that have been sent out this year, it's clear that the AD realizes there is a problem but the general sense is that there aren't a lot of answers or solutions coming from within (and that's not surprising given that they've had to resort to sending out the surveys and that it ever got to that point). It would IMO be very difficult for Cohen to take over the lead spot in the AD and make all the moves necessary given the familiarity and closeness with the program. She may make some changes but it will likely only be a fraction of what is needed and moreover there's always the question of what kind of buy in that she would get from the department as a whole from those that either wanted other people or even the job themselves.

    The reality is that the problems in the UW AD start with the current administration as a whole but also extends to the alumni/donor base as well. It's really the #1 priority for the sports programs at this point.

    Wow. After reading that I'm worried Woodward leaving is going to be a jumping from the frying pan into the fire type situation.

    If money is an issue, is there a viable economical alternative to hiring someone internal? I know we're afraid of UW being anyone's training wheels, but wouldn't it be better to get some hungry, ambitious individual from a smaller school that would at least bring in some fresh ideas?
    Warning: TL, DR thoughts coming

    The problems as I see it ... and for the record, I don't have any unique insight other than just paying attention to things around me and being a #TCUMBASuperiorityGuy

    If you go to Rempe's bio on the UW Athletic Page, you see that the UW AD Budget is about $75M per year. To fuck up a Budget in that range is really difficult to do IMO unless you are having some significant revenue shortfalls. Anybody that has any clue would be building in at least some kind of buffer into the Budget to cover contingencies. If I was running through the process of creating a UW Budget, I'd expect that I'd probably put it in the neighborhood of $2-$5M to cover anything from revenue shortfalls to contingent buyouts, projected unscheduled retention raises, etc.

    Now, if you look for example at UW football for this year, average attendance this year was 60,691 with the Apple Cup being the only game where attendance was over 62,000 at just over 70,000. Let's assume that the Athletic Department budgeted conservatively (in their mind) and set the ticket expectation at 65,000 for average attendance at an average ticket price of $70 per ticket. Over the course of a 7 game schedule, the total revenue shortfall compared to budget would be over $2M.

    There was a UW Dawg Pound article towards the end of last basketball season that placed 2014-2015 attendance at around 6,300-6,400 per game versus a capacity of around 10,000. Again, let's assume for simplicity that UW budgeted around 7,000 per game on average so that the gap was about 500-700 tickets on average per game. In 2015-2016 season, UW plays 17 home games. Let's say that the average ticket price per game is $35. You're looking there at a budget shortfall of somewhere around $300-$500k depending on assumptions. I'd probably say that the estimate should probably be on the higher end as I would expect that some of the shortfall is coming on Tyee seating that is also reducing donor funding ... also probably true for football as well.

    Who knows what assumptions were assumed for other sports. The amount shouldn't be material but could run in the 6 figure range if optimistic or aggressive budgeting was used. In total, it's not unrealistic to assume that there's a revenue shortfall of $2.5M+.

    But then again, I'm used to budgeting with uncertainty and contingencies while managing to a bottom line of profitability and knowing what levers that I can pull on on the expense side to cut in order to cover misses. Athletic Departments are likely not used to doing that. Their expenses are far more fixed (think people, facilities, etc.) than variable. As such, trying to figure out how and where to cut expenses to cover not only becomes difficult, but in the grand scheme of things, trying to put a band aid on a cut requiring stitches. Instead, what ends up happening is you start removing staff that are considered non essential, finding ways to limit travel and related expenses for both teams and staff, try to avoid repetitive payments (i.e. buying out existing contracts), and when in a position to make replacement hires err on the side of an upside hire with lower experience and a lower price tag than a known hire with significant experience and a high price tag.

    The only other strong options is to head to your most significant donors and/or upper campus for assistance in covering the shortfalls. That's a dangerous proposition because if you head to the donors you run the risk of pissing them off and alienating them from the program. If you head to upper campus, you basically are admitting that you aren't able to hit your commitments which for executives is a very dangerous line to walk. It'd be one thing if the shortfalls are being caused by events outside of the control of the AD. But that's not really the case here. For football, the shortfall is caused by many factors including 15 years of mediocrity (at times that's being generous), a shitty OOC schedule, a known rebuilding year without steak or sizzle, and what is routinely cited as a terrible in-game product and experience coupled with a widely criticized marketing department. And on the basketball side, Romar has been underperforming for years and as the program has floundered under his watch, the momentum and support for the program has waned yearly. In many respects, the problems in the AD are entirely self induced, unsurprising, and have been building over the years.

    Going back to Pepsi's comments about liking Jen Cohen, it's very possible that Cohen is self aware enough to know the problems, has done the best that she could do in her essentially supporting position of Pool Boy (who ultimately as AD is responsible for the vision, oversight, and execution of the AD plan), and is willing to put forth a plan to amend and turn around the problems in the Athletic Department. My guess though is that she doesn't have enough of the answers to be anything more than a stop gap in the position given her overall lack of experience as an experienced lead AD. This isn't a position or situation where the position should be trusted to an executive that is either inexperienced or has not been faced with managing a major D1 program like UW. It's not a position where IMO you go to a person without Power 5 experience. It's why the name of Greg Bryne is intriguing because you could argue not only that Washington is a stronger program, but with his Northwest roots for both himself and his wife, it's a geographical fit as well. His track record of success at both Mississippi State and Arizona is well documented and not only does he have a keen marketing sense, but he also has a very strong demonstrated ability to think outside of the box to generate results (i.e. moving the baseball program from on campus to Hi Corbett Field that saw a strong increase in attendance).

    In my opinion, this is probably one of the most important hires that the UW will make from an athletic standpoint over the next decade. Really important in my mind for those that demand excellence from the UW to continue to be vocal about the problems that we're seeing and make them visible.
  • huskyhooliganhuskyhooligan Member, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 5,354 Swaye's Wigwam
    Oliver Luck! Guy put beer back in WVU football games!
  • Doog_de_JourDoog_de_Jour Member Posts: 7,969 Standard Supporter
    Tequilla said:

    Warning: TL, DR thoughts coming
    ....
    This isn't a position or situation where the position should be trusted to an executive that is either inexperienced or has not been faced with managing a major D1 program like UW. It's not a position where IMO you go to a person without Power 5 experience. It's why the name of Greg Bryne is intriguing because you could argue not only that Washington is a stronger program, but with his Northwest roots for both himself and his wife, it's a geographical fit as well. His track record of success at both Mississippi State and Arizona is well documented and not only does he have a keen marketing sense, but he also has a very strong demonstrated ability to think outside of the box to generate results (i.e. moving the baseball program from on campus to Hi Corbett Field that saw a strong increase in attendance).

    In my opinion, this is probably one of the most important hires that the UW will make from an athletic standpoint over the next decade. Really important in my mind for those that demand excellence from the UW to continue to be vocal about the problems that we're seeing and make them visible.

    Thanks for answering my question. I think you're right about this being an essential hire for UW, and if this Greg Bryne guy's the real deal, I hope we can coax him away get him to sell his couch.
  • whlinderwhlinder Member Posts: 4,618 Standard Supporter
    Bob Ernst!

    With Woodward gone, bring the crusty old winner back as the A.D.
  • CFetters_Nacho_LoverCFetters_Nacho_Lover Moderator, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 30,000 Founders Club
    Tequilla said:

    Tequilla said:

    Hiring Cohen in my mind basically confirms the budget issues that have been rumored in the Athletic Department and really aren't all that shocking given the poor attendance for football this year and basketball the last few years. Since the UW AD has never been supported by having the kind of whale donators that you see so often in the SEC, Big 12, etc., when we're light in Joe Alumni's support, it creates problems. It's a strong indicator in my mind why Romar's got so much job security (when he shouldn't) because we don't have the means in place to cover his buyout.

    The joke of the matter in all of this though is that what is needed is an experienced AD that really knows how to mobilize a base and turn around the budget deficit. It takes money to make money.

    The other big issue that Pepsi brings up that is 100% true is that the AD needs a strong overhaul, particularly with regard to the marketing of the program as well as in-game presentation. From the surveys that have been sent out this year, it's clear that the AD realizes there is a problem but the general sense is that there aren't a lot of answers or solutions coming from within (and that's not surprising given that they've had to resort to sending out the surveys and that it ever got to that point). It would IMO be very difficult for Cohen to take over the lead spot in the AD and make all the moves necessary given the familiarity and closeness with the program. She may make some changes but it will likely only be a fraction of what is needed and moreover there's always the question of what kind of buy in that she would get from the department as a whole from those that either wanted other people or even the job themselves.

    The reality is that the problems in the UW AD start with the current administration as a whole but also extends to the alumni/donor base as well. It's really the #1 priority for the sports programs at this point.

    Wow. After reading that I'm worried Woodward leaving is going to be a jumping from the frying pan into the fire type situation.

    If money is an issue, is there a viable economical alternative to hiring someone internal? I know we're afraid of UW being anyone's training wheels, but wouldn't it be better to get some hungry, ambitious individual from a smaller school that would at least bring in some fresh ideas?
    Warning: TL, DR thoughts coming

    The problems as I see it ... and for the record, I don't have any unique insight other than just paying attention to things around me and being a #TCUMBASuperiorityGuy

    If you go to Rempe's bio on the UW Athletic Page, you see that the UW AD Budget is about $75M per year. To fuck up a Budget in that range is really difficult to do IMO unless you are having some significant revenue shortfalls. Anybody that has any clue would be building in at least some kind of buffer into the Budget to cover contingencies. If I was running through the process of creating a UW Budget, I'd expect that I'd probably put it in the neighborhood of $2-$5M to cover anything from revenue shortfalls to contingent buyouts, projected unscheduled retention raises, etc.

    Now, if you look for example at UW football for this year, average attendance this year was 60,691 with the Apple Cup being the only game where attendance was over 62,000 at just over 70,000. Let's assume that the Athletic Department budgeted conservatively (in their mind) and set the ticket expectation at 65,000 for average attendance at an average ticket price of $70 per ticket. Over the course of a 7 game schedule, the total revenue shortfall compared to budget would be over $2M.

    There was a UW Dawg Pound article towards the end of last basketball season that placed 2014-2015 attendance at around 6,300-6,400 per game versus a capacity of around 10,000. Again, let's assume for simplicity that UW budgeted around 7,000 per game on average so that the gap was about 500-700 tickets on average per game. In 2015-2016 season, UW plays 17 home games. Let's say that the average ticket price per game is $35. You're looking there at a budget shortfall of somewhere around $300-$500k depending on assumptions. I'd probably say that the estimate should probably be on the higher end as I would expect that some of the shortfall is coming on Tyee seating that is also reducing donor funding ... also probably true for football as well.

    Who knows what assumptions were assumed for other sports. The amount shouldn't be material but could run in the 6 figure range if optimistic or aggressive budgeting was used. In total, it's not unrealistic to assume that there's a revenue shortfall of $2.5M+.

    But then again, I'm used to budgeting with uncertainty and contingencies while managing to a bottom line of profitability and knowing what levers that I can pull on on the expense side to cut in order to cover misses. Athletic Departments are likely not used to doing that. Their expenses are far more fixed (think people, facilities, etc.) than variable. As such, trying to figure out how and where to cut expenses to cover not only becomes difficult, but in the grand scheme of things, trying to put a band aid on a cut requiring stitches. Instead, what ends up happening is you start removing staff that are considered non essential, finding ways to limit travel and related expenses for both teams and staff, try to avoid repetitive payments (i.e. buying out existing contracts), and when in a position to make replacement hires err on the side of an upside hire with lower experience and a lower price tag than a known hire with significant experience and a high price tag.

    The only other strong options is to head to your most significant donors and/or upper campus for assistance in covering the shortfalls. That's a dangerous proposition because if you head to the donors you run the risk of pissing them off and alienating them from the program. If you head to upper campus, you basically are admitting that you aren't able to hit your commitments which for executives is a very dangerous line to walk. It'd be one thing if the shortfalls are being caused by events outside of the control of the AD. But that's not really the case here. For football, the shortfall is caused by many factors including 15 years of mediocrity (at times that's being generous), a shitty OOC schedule, a known rebuilding year without steak or sizzle, and what is routinely cited as a terrible in-game product and experience coupled with a widely criticized marketing department. And on the basketball side, Romar has been underperforming for years and as the program has floundered under his watch, the momentum and support for the program has waned yearly. In many respects, the problems in the AD are entirely self induced, unsurprising, and have been building over the years.

    Going back to Pepsi's comments about liking Jen Cohen, it's very possible that Cohen is self aware enough to know the problems, has done the best that she could do in her essentially supporting position of Pool Boy (who ultimately as AD is responsible for the vision, oversight, and execution of the AD plan), and is willing to put forth a plan to amend and turn around the problems in the Athletic Department. My guess though is that she doesn't have enough of the answers to be anything more than a stop gap in the position given her overall lack of experience as an experienced lead AD. This isn't a position or situation where the position should be trusted to an executive that is either inexperienced or has not been faced with managing a major D1 program like UW. It's not a position where IMO you go to a person without Power 5 experience. It's why the name of Greg Bryne is intriguing because you could argue not only that Washington is a stronger program, but with his Northwest roots for both himself and his wife, it's a geographical fit as well. His track record of success at both Mississippi State and Arizona is well documented and not only does he have a keen marketing sense, but he also has a very strong demonstrated ability to think outside of the box to generate results (i.e. moving the baseball program from on campus to Hi Corbett Field that saw a strong increase in attendance).

    In my opinion, this is probably one of the most important hires that the UW will make from an athletic standpoint over the next decade. Really important in my mind for those that demand excellence from the UW to continue to be vocal about the problems that we're seeing and make them visible.
    I read it.
  • DonaldTrumpDonaldTrump Member Posts: 53

    I expect a downgrade. We are going to hire some transgender bulldyke.

    Chelsea Clinton's Father?

    image
  • sarktasticsarktastic Member Posts: 9,208
    Contingency fund? Already have one. Full faith and credit of the University of Washington and by extension, Washington State taxpayer.
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