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Petersen and Smith

13

Comments

  • AZDuckAZDuck Member Posts: 15,381
    image

    holy shit, that's a felony
  • HFNYHFNY Member Posts: 4,609
    Excellent post.

    It's also not wise to be "stubborn" in the passing game when your QB is a true frosh and so is your LT. Buckner was abusing Trey Adams and the true frosh QB eventually got hurt.

    Washington missing the game was also key. Gaskin is also a true frosh and so I'd rather instead of giving Gaskin another 14 carries, it would've been better to give Washington 8-10 carries and 4-6 balls in the passing game (like the pass in the EZ that Cooper dropped).

    Washington would've also helped in the screen game. One way to take advantage of Buckner licking his chops against Trey Adams is to use that against him by letting him rush upfield quickly.

    I also can't remember, did we try to trap Bucker? At the snap, Trey Adams could head for the ROLB or SS and then Coleman Shelton or Tufunga could've pulled to blast Buckner.

    Stubborn is what Sark did with the passing game. Continuing to force the running game isn't being stubborn, it's being patient. You have that ability when you have a defense of Washington's calibur. The defense keeps you in the game, and in the second half, when the opponent is tired out, you have your way with them. This has been the Stanford blue print since Harbaugh arrived. It's especially ideal when you have a quarterback that isn't yet ready to win you football games. But don't ask me, I'm just an unemployed basement dweller, living on free rent and endless Hot Pockets.

  • HouhuskyHouhusky Member Posts: 5,537
    HFNY said:

    Excellent post.

    It's also not wise to be "stubborn" in the passing game when your QB is a true frosh and so is your LT. Buckner was abusing Trey Adams and the true frosh QB eventually got hurt.

    Washington missing the game was also key. Gaskin is also a true frosh and so I'd rather instead of giving Gaskin another 14 carries, it would've been better to give Washington 8-10 carries and 4-6 balls in the passing game (like the pass in the EZ that Cooper dropped).

    Washington would've also helped in the screen game. One way to take advantage of Buckner licking his chops against Trey Adams is to use that against him by letting him rush upfield quickly.

    I also can't remember, did we try to trap Bucker? At the snap, Trey Adams could head for the ROLB or SS and then Coleman Shelton or Tufunga could've pulled to blast Buckner.

    Stubborn is what Sark did with the passing game. Continuing to force the running game isn't being stubborn, it's being patient. You have that ability when you have a defense of Washington's calibur. The defense keeps you in the game, and in the second half, when the opponent is tired out, you have your way with them. This has been the Stanford blue print since Harbaugh arrived. It's especially ideal when you have a quarterback that isn't yet ready to win you football games. But don't ask me, I'm just an unemployed basement dweller, living on free rent and endless Hot Pockets.

    Having the offensive scheme be "no scheme offense" and not fixing it 1.5 years ago is what is fucking key.

    There is no framework to build around other than shitty pre snap motion. If you don't have a base, a framework, to build around it is going to be impossible to improve.

    A mediocre blind RB converted from WR who can only catch screens and hit running lanes the size of the Montlake Cut wasn't going to make a difference.

    Losers find a way to lose.
  • TequillaTequilla Member Posts: 19,825
    Most of our passes are short/intermediate throws over the middle that take advantage of LBs trying to play the run.

    The easiest time for a QB to throw the football is on early downs ... I'd much rather see Browning throw the ball on 1st and 10 than in 3rd and 8's.
  • TequillaTequilla Member Posts: 19,825
    I'm all for pounding it 45-50 times a game if you can get consistent push with your OL and limiting the passing game to shots. But not only do you need to have a consistent OL with that, but you need to have depth at RB.

    Fact of the matter is that Gaskin isn't going to run the ball 30+ times for this team this year. I'll be shocked if he does. IF there was a game to do it, it would have been the Oregon game. But with Washington hurt, it was abundantly clear that they had zero confidence in the RBs behind Gaskin/Washington to be effective.

    This is a team that is going to run about 60 plays a game and on Saturday they tried to be balanced in part to take advantage of Oregon's weak pass defense and other part is because they lacked options behind Gaskin. They ran more than they threw against USC and my general sense is that if they can be successful in doing so that they'll do that. But at the same time, with a young OL, asking them to be successful with 8 or 9 in the box isn't a recipe for success either. The offense has to have Browning throwing the ball to be successful. The area where I think they need to get a little more aggressive offensively is taking shots down the field and using some down/distance situations to their advantage. An example being the 3rd and short shot to Mickens when he was against a LB in coverage ... that's the type of situation that you want to get and a defense is going to expect us to either run the ball or go for a short pass there.

    I get your point and don't disagree about perhaps moving the ratio into more of a 55-60% range of runs versus passes. I'm also guessing that the coaches are looking at the quick throws over the middle to the TEs, the RB screens and flat throws to Washington, etc. as extensions of the running game and trying to find ways to take pressure off of the OL.

    There's a lot of problems with the offense, I've got more on that to say elsewhere. On the pod, you got pushed by @HeretoBeatmyChest to provide solutions and you really didn't have any other than to turn the program into Wisconsin's offense ... although the problem with that is Wisconsin almost always is sitting with experienced OL in the program and multiple RBs that are plug and play. That's not what we are sitting with.

    I get the frustration. I'm sure that you're looking at it from the standpoint that I'm just straight up apologizing and excusing the performance. I'm not. Just not going to sit and beat a dead horse week after week after week. It's pointless at this point to say that Smith sucks ... already known. It's pointless to say that Petersen's offenses have struggled --> not worked over the last 4 years ... stats and data are showing that out. Almost every coach at some point has to look to in the mirror over their career and be able to adjust, adapt, and grow on the fly to survive. We're at that point in Petersen's tenure right now offensively. We'll know what kind of chops he's got going forward by the moves he makes in the offseason. Makes minimal or no moves and you have a good idea of where this is heading. Makes significant moves, then you have to let it play out to see if the changes take hold.

    As for the sexy, the sizzle, etc., if anything, I would think that most people know that I don't give a shit about any of that. I'm all about results and if that means running it every single play I'm fine with it. There's a certain beauty that comes from watching a team like Navy march up and down the field. The reality is that if you win with it, I'm all for it.
  • RoadDawg55RoadDawg55 Member Posts: 30,123
    edited October 2015
    I don't want to have Wisconsin's offense. I'm just saying it would be nice to stick with what is working. It would be nice to make Browning earn the right to throw 30+ passes each week instead of just doing it for the sake of doing it. It would be nice to have a coach who wasn't a pussy who thinks running it 30 times is being "stubborn" in the run game. I get what he means by "stubborn" but it's also quite telling if you read between the lines.

    Like I said before, there will never be a game where he talks about not having enough passing attempts. I think passing it 30+ times with arguably the worst QB in the conference and an OL that doesn't always protect well is "stubborn", but that's just me.
  • TequillaTequilla Member Posts: 19,825
    Gaskin's carries for the game (down, distance, and result):

    2nd and 10 Wash 24, 3 yards
    1st and 15 Wash 33, 8 yards
    1st and 10 Ore 48, 2 yards
    1st and 10 Wash 5, 35 yards
    2nd and 6 Wash 19, 3 yards
    2nd and 1 Wash 31, 1 yard
    1st and 10 Wash 32, 3 yards (holding on play)
    2nd and 10 Wash 45, 2 yards
    1st and 10 Ore 11, -1 yard
    2nd and 10 Wash 19, 9 yards (Coleman ran for no gain on next play)
    1st and 10 Wash 28, 72 yards TD
    1st and 10 Wash 29, no gain
    1st and 10 Wash 44, 3 yards
    2nd and 7 Wash 47, 8 yards
    1st and 10 Ore 29, 3 yards
    1st and 10 Ore 15, 2 yards
    1st and Goal Ore 6, 4 yards
    2nd and Goal Ore 2, -1 yards

    Gaskin's going to be a great player for us, and I'm not meaning this to be a slight against him, but for those that are suggesting that we need to run the ball more because we are consistent in doing so, the above play by play doesn't really support that. Of Gaskin's 18 carries, only 6 of the 18 carries went for 4 yards or more.

    What Gaskin is able to do well for us, and the reason that we need to stick with the running game even when it isn't working is because he's going to bust a couple 35 yard type of plays per game that either turn the field over for us or create the explosive plays we need to score.

    But generally speaking, we're not creating a huge push for him on a consistent basis. We don't have the kind of OL like Stanford has at the moment to be able to just turn and hand it off consistently for 3 straight times and have a 12 play drive where 11 of the plays are runs. The numbers are not going to bear that out ... particularly in the Oregon game.
  • TequillaTequilla Member Posts: 19,825
    You like to talk about missing the point all the time ... yet there you go with the same.

    I'm not saying that the run or pass game is necessarily working great. Both are being hurt in my opinion by the OL being green as can be.

    You have to stick with the running game for the reasons that you mentioned. I'd be the first one to say as much. I think I've mentioned repeatedly that one of the reasons you have to make sure that you are finding ways to get Gaskin (and Washington) the ball is that these two are your most explosive playmakers.

    But at the same time, to act like the run game is working and it is a no brainer to run the ball over and over isn't supported by the facts. Running on 1st and 2nd down, particularly so if predictably done, may very well to lead to a number of 3rd and longs, predictable situations for the defense to exploit a green OL and young QB, and create terrible scenarios.

    One thing that I have noticed is a lot of "backward" play calling by Smith ... in many ways similar to what you'd expect from a pitcher that throws offspeed stuff behind in the count and fastball when looking for something with a wrinkle. Now, I'm not saying that Smith is doing this because he's clever (don't twist), but there is some logic to being random to the point where it's difficult to pick up a pattern.

    The bottom line is that the OL isn't ready (the product of terrible Seven recruiting which we knew going into the year) and lacks explosive players at the WR position to help create easy throws for a young QB. It's an offense that lacks a lot of consistency and ability to string together long drives into scores. Add to that a play caller that would appear to be in over his head and that's the hand that we've been dealt ...
  • godawgstgodawgst Member, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 2,451 Founders Club
    topdawgnc said:

    Right now Washington is 11th in the league for rushing attempts.

    Ahead of only Wazzu.

    Right behind USC.

    Last year they were second to only Oregon.

    For that statistic alone and based on what we don't have at wr and a freshman qb, someone should be fired.
  • PostGameOrangeSlicesPostGameOrangeSlices Member, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 25,592 Swaye's Wigwam
  • FremontTrollFremontTroll Member Posts: 4,744
    edited October 2015
    Tequilla said:

    Gaskin's carries for the game (down, distance, and result):

    2nd and 10 Wash 24, 3 yards
    1st and 15 Wash 33, 8 yards
    1st and 10 Ore 48, 2 yards
    1st and 10 Wash 5, 35 yards
    2nd and 6 Wash 19, 3 yards
    2nd and 1 Wash 31, 1 yard
    1st and 10 Wash 32, 3 yards (holding on play)
    2nd and 10 Wash 45, 2 yards
    1st and 10 Ore 11, -1 yard
    2nd and 10 Wash 19, 9 yards (Coleman ran for no gain on next play)
    1st and 10 Wash 28, 72 yards TD
    1st and 10 Wash 29, no gain
    1st and 10 Wash 44, 3 yards
    2nd and 7 Wash 47, 8 yards
    1st and 10 Ore 29, 3 yards
    1st and 10 Ore 15, 2 yards
    1st and Goal Ore 6, 4 yards
    2nd and Goal Ore 2, -1 yards

    Gaskin's going to be a great player for us, and I'm not meaning this to be a slight against him, but for those that are suggesting that we need to run the ball more because we are consistent in doing so, the above play by play doesn't really support that. Of Gaskin's 18 carries, only 6 of the 18 carries went for 4 yards or more.

    What Gaskin is able to do well for us, and the reason that we need to stick with the running game even when it isn't working is because he's going to bust a couple 35 yard type of plays per game that either turn the field over for us or create the explosive plays we need to score.

    But generally speaking, we're not creating a huge push for him on a consistent basis. We don't have the kind of OL like Stanford has at the moment to be able to just turn and hand it off consistently for 3 straight times and have a 12 play drive where 11 of the plays are runs. The numbers are not going to bear that out ... particularly in the Oregon game.

    You're seeing what you want to see in the play by play numbers

    Look at it a different way- only 7 of Gaskin's 18 carries went for less than 3 (and one of those was a first down.)

    14 of Browning's 30 attempts were incomplete or less than 3 yards (plus he was sacked 5 times.)

    We needed to run more. We weren't ever down so far as to need to abandon our game.

    In the other thread you were talking about playing conservative and shortening the game- if you want to do that then pound Gaskin. Bullshit assuming he can't handle 30 carries. You dont know that. He is healthy and fresh and was running hard until the end if the game. Run him until he's out of gas.
  • SwayeSwaye Moderator, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 41,358 Founders Club
    If @Tequilla and @RoadDawg55 had a baby, it would beat itself.
  • HuskyInAZHuskyInAZ Member Posts: 1,732
    What is truly fucked up, here's a couple of quotes of the 2 of the local experts......

    “Maybe deep down, Pete doesn’t want to win”

    “Pete want’s to get sucked off by announcers for innovative and creative play calls. I have no doubt in my mind”

    "Deep down in his heart, he gets off way more passing the ball more than running the ball"

    Not worth debating dumbfucks like this. You can't fix stupid.
  • Postal91Postal91 Member Posts: 1,809
    edited October 2015
    Here, look no further.


    Pete wants to be Mike Leach.


    Offense wise, not lock people in a shed wise.
    HuskyInAZ said:

    What is truly fucked up, here's a couple of quotes of the 2 of the local experts......

    “Maybe deep down, Pete doesn’t want to win”

    “Pete want’s to get sucked off by announcers for innovative and creative play calls. I have no doubt in my mind”

    "Deep down in his heart, he gets off way more passing the ball more than running the ball"

    Not worth debating dumbfucks like this. You can't fix stupid.

  • wobidbuswobidbus Member Posts: 308
    Good thread, would be better if the subject material wasn't so depressing. Fuck.
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