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Cano

RoadDawg55RoadDawg55 Member Posts: 30,123
edited May 2015 in Mariners Baby! + Other Sports
I've been saying the power slippage is concerning. Do you Moogs here still poo poo it and think it's no big deal? 14 HR's last year. 1 so far this season. He had hit 25+ from 2009 until last year. Forget about five years from now, that contract is borderline terrible now.

It's not that Cano sucks. His average will rise, but paying a guy 20-25 million for as little power as he has shown is a terrible contract.
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  • dhdawgdhdawg Member Posts: 13,326
    no. Production is production, you don't need power to be successful. Right now he isn't producing but you like me assume he will eventually get back to what he did last year.
    Despite his struggles interestingly enough he's leading the AL in 2B, so he's still hitting for extra bases.
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  • dhdawgdhdawg Member Posts: 13,326
    edited May 2015
    I'm not going to defend what he's doing right now because it's pretty subpar. But that has nothing to do with the fact he has 1 homer
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  • DerekJohnsonDerekJohnson Administrator, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 63,543 Founders Club
    I'm with Roadie on this one. Even if Cano ends up duplicating his numbers from last season, that contract is looking terrible.
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  • dhdawgdhdawg Member Posts: 13,326
    DerekJohnson said:

    I'm with Roadie on this one. Even if Cano ends up duplicating his numbers from last season, that contract is looking terrible.

    the contract was never going to look good on paper. No one outside of Mike Trout is worth that money
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  • dhdawgdhdawg Member Posts: 13,326
    I should clarify, no one is worth that contract at age 30 outside of mike trout
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  • RoadDawg55RoadDawg55 Member Posts: 30,123
    dhdawg said:

    I'm not going to defend what he's doing right now because it's pretty subpar. But that has nothing to do with the fact he has 1 homer

    I don't understand how power doesn't matter. It does and it seems FS to say otherwise. I don't watch much baseball, but I am somewhat of a stat head. His OPS last season was his lowest since 2008. Lowest WAR since 2009 and this year is off to a bad start.

    He leads 2B in doubles. Big deal. Most 2B suck at hitting. How does he measure up to the average #3 hitter?

    Everyone knew that the contract would be bad in the later years, but he wasn't brought to Seattle to hit 10-15 HR's. He was brought in to be a middle of the order run producer. Some power slippage was to be expected due to not playing at Yankee Stadium, but still. Last three seasons he has hit 33, 27, and 14 HR's. He has one this season. That sure looks like a trend to me.
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  • dhdawgdhdawg Member Posts: 13,326
    edited May 2015
    he leads the AL in doubles, not just 2B. He was not the robinson cano that he was in 2012 last year, but 5 WAR is still pretty good.
    And I said that what he's doing this year so far has been subpar, so I'm not sure why it matters how he stacks up to the average #3 hitter.
    .314/.382/.452 is well worth 24 million for a 2B. Now whether he can replicate that this year in the question.
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  • d2dd2d Member Posts: 3,109
    Wasn't Cruz behind him supposed to produce the "Promised Land" ?
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  • DerekJohnsonDerekJohnson Administrator, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 63,543 Founders Club
    dhdawg said:

    he leads the AL in doubles, not just 2B. He was not the robinson cano that he was in 2012 last year, but 5 WAR is still pretty good.
    And I said that what he's doing this year so far has been subpar, so I'm not sure why it matters how he stacks up to the average #3 hitter.
    .314/.382/.452 is well worth 24 million for a 2B. Now whether he can replicate that this year in the question.

    I think you're clinging to that statistical argument just for the sake of arguing. How can you justify that .314 and 14 homers is worth $24 million dollars? That's absurd. That's like saying "But how is Mark Emmert a bad president?"

    If I was staked with making the argument his contract IS worth it, I would argue that him leaving New York to come here made it plausible for Cruz to follow suit. And maybe, just maybe, it could start a trend in the future. But I highly doubt it, unless they get this pitching situation figured out quick.
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  • TequillaTequilla Member Posts: 19,882
    You knew you had to overpay to get him to Seattle ... I'm not even sure that arguing about his stars vs money is even really a debate ...

    The elephant in the room is that the Mariners don't have money ... They do and lots of it.
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  • TierbsHsotBoobsTierbsHsotBoobs Member Posts: 39,680
    DerekJohnson said:

    dhdawg said:

    he leads the AL in doubles, not just 2B. He was not the robinson cano that he was in 2012 last year, but 5 WAR is still pretty good.
    And I said that what he's doing this year so far has been subpar, so I'm not sure why it matters how he stacks up to the average #3 hitter.
    .314/.382/.452 is well worth 24 million for a 2B. Now whether he can replicate that this year in the question.

    I think you're clinging to that statistical argument just for the sake of arguing. How can you justify that .314 and 14 homers is worth $24 million dollars? That's absurd. That's like saying "But how is Mark Emmert a bad president?"

    If I was staked with making the argument his contract IS worth it, I would argue that him leaving New York to come here made it plausible for Cruz to follow suit. And maybe, just maybe, it could start a trend in the future. But I highly doubt it, unless they get this pitching situation figured out quick.
    Cruz needs to start sharing his supply with the rest of the clubhouse. That's the only way the Mariners contend any time soon.
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  • PurpleJPurpleJ Member Posts: 37,282 Founders Club
    My Yankees say "Thank You"
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  • dhdawgdhdawg Member Posts: 13,326
    edited May 2015
    DerekJohnson said:

    dhdawg said:

    he leads the AL in doubles, not just 2B. He was not the robinson cano that he was in 2012 last year, but 5 WAR is still pretty good.
    And I said that what he's doing this year so far has been subpar, so I'm not sure why it matters how he stacks up to the average #3 hitter.
    .314/.382/.452 is well worth 24 million for a 2B. Now whether he can replicate that this year in the question.

    I think you're clinging to that statistical argument just for the sake of arguing. How can you justify that .314 and 14 homers is worth $24 million dollars? That's absurd. That's like saying "But how is Mark Emmert a bad president?"

    If I was staked with making the argument his contract IS worth it, I would argue that him leaving New York to come here made it plausible for Cruz to follow suit. And maybe, just maybe, it could start a trend in the future. But I highly doubt it, unless they get this pitching situation figured out quick.
    In this age of baseball. An 830 ops and pretty good defense from a position that is usually an offensive black hole is worth a lot of money
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  • RoadDawg55RoadDawg55 Member Posts: 30,123
    dhdawg said:

    DerekJohnson said:

    dhdawg said:

    he leads the AL in doubles, not just 2B. He was not the robinson cano that he was in 2012 last year, but 5 WAR is still pretty good.
    And I said that what he's doing this year so far has been subpar, so I'm not sure why it matters how he stacks up to the average #3 hitter.
    .314/.382/.452 is well worth 24 million for a 2B. Now whether he can replicate that this year in the question.

    I think you're clinging to that statistical argument just for the sake of arguing. How can you justify that .314 and 14 homers is worth $24 million dollars? That's absurd. That's like saying "But how is Mark Emmert a bad president?"

    If I was staked with making the argument his contract IS worth it, I would argue that him leaving New York to come here made it plausible for Cruz to follow suit. And maybe, just maybe, it could start a trend in the future. But I highly doubt it, unless they get this pitching situation figured out quick.
    In this age of baseball. An 830 ops and pretty good defense from a position that is usually an offensive black hole is worth a lot of money
    He's still been significantly worse for the Mariners than Yankees. The general thought at the time seemed to be that Cano would play at his Yankee level for a few more years. Last year was a pretty decent fall. This year has been off a cliff, but it is still early.

    It's not really about his position. It's about his production vs his production as a Yankee. He's paid 24 million to be one of the best players in baseball.
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  • dncdnc Member Posts: 56,746
    edited May 2015
    RoadDawg55 said:

    dhdawg said:

    DerekJohnson said:

    dhdawg said:

    he leads the AL in doubles, not just 2B. He was not the robinson cano that he was in 2012 last year, but 5 WAR is still pretty good.
    And I said that what he's doing this year so far has been subpar, so I'm not sure why it matters how he stacks up to the average #3 hitter.
    .314/.382/.452 is well worth 24 million for a 2B. Now whether he can replicate that this year in the question.

    I think you're clinging to that statistical argument just for the sake of arguing. How can you justify that .314 and 14 homers is worth $24 million dollars? That's absurd. That's like saying "But how is Mark Emmert a bad president?"

    If I was staked with making the argument his contract IS worth it, I would argue that him leaving New York to come here made it plausible for Cruz to follow suit. And maybe, just maybe, it could start a trend in the future. But I highly doubt it, unless they get this pitching situation figured out quick.
    In this age of baseball. An 830 ops and pretty good defense from a position that is usually an offensive black hole is worth a lot of money
    He's still been significantly worse for the Mariners than Dodgers. The general thought at the time seemed to be that Beltre would play at his Dodger level for a few more years. Last year was a pretty decent fall. This year has been off a cliff, but it is still early.

    It's not really about his position. It's about his production vs his production as a Dodge. He's paid 16 million to be one of the best players in baseball.
    This is the same mentality that made Mariners fans hate Adrian Beltre the whole time he was here and then discover he was fucking awesome after he left.

    Cano isn't close to the problem on this team.
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  • dhdawgdhdawg Member Posts: 13,326
    dnc said:

    RoadDawg55 said:

    dhdawg said:

    DerekJohnson said:

    dhdawg said:

    he leads the AL in doubles, not just 2B. He was not the robinson cano that he was in 2012 last year, but 5 WAR is still pretty good.
    And I said that what he's doing this year so far has been subpar, so I'm not sure why it matters how he stacks up to the average #3 hitter.
    .314/.382/.452 is well worth 24 million for a 2B. Now whether he can replicate that this year in the question.

    I think you're clinging to that statistical argument just for the sake of arguing. How can you justify that .314 and 14 homers is worth $24 million dollars? That's absurd. That's like saying "But how is Mark Emmert a bad president?"

    If I was staked with making the argument his contract IS worth it, I would argue that him leaving New York to come here made it plausible for Cruz to follow suit. And maybe, just maybe, it could start a trend in the future. But I highly doubt it, unless they get this pitching situation figured out quick.
    In this age of baseball. An 830 ops and pretty good defense from a position that is usually an offensive black hole is worth a lot of money
    He's still been significantly worse for the Mariners than Dodgers. The general thought at the time seemed to be that Beltre would play at his Dodger level for a few more years. Last year was a pretty decent fall. This year has been off a cliff, but it is still early.

    It's not really about his position. It's about his production vs his production as a Dodge. He's paid 16 million to be one of the best players in baseball.
    This is the same mentality that made Mariners fans hate Adrian Beltre the whole time he was here and then discover he was fucking awesome after he left.

    Cano isn't close to the problem on this team.
    right now he is a problem. If he does what he did last year he won't be
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  • RaceBannonRaceBannon Member, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 105,998 Founders Club
    PurpleJ said:

    My Yankees say "Thank You"

    Really proud of how A Rod is over coming adversity this year to be the player we all love
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  • HFNYHFNY Member Posts: 4,899 Standard Supporter
    The only other 2nd baseman I'd rather have than Cano is Altuve and Altuve is barely 25.

    Cano brings so many things to table but the M's had to overpay to get him to Seattle and he'll probably be a part-time player his last 3 years ($72 million).
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  • TierbsHsotBoobsTierbsHsotBoobs Member Posts: 39,680
    dnc said:

    RoadDawg55 said:

    dhdawg said:

    DerekJohnson said:

    dhdawg said:

    he leads the AL in doubles, not just 2B. He was not the robinson cano that he was in 2012 last year, but 5 WAR is still pretty good.
    And I said that what he's doing this year so far has been subpar, so I'm not sure why it matters how he stacks up to the average #3 hitter.
    .314/.382/.452 is well worth 24 million for a 2B. Now whether he can replicate that this year in the question.

    I think you're clinging to that statistical argument just for the sake of arguing. How can you justify that .314 and 14 homers is worth $24 million dollars? That's absurd. That's like saying "But how is Mark Emmert a bad president?"

    If I was staked with making the argument his contract IS worth it, I would argue that him leaving New York to come here made it plausible for Cruz to follow suit. And maybe, just maybe, it could start a trend in the future. But I highly doubt it, unless they get this pitching situation figured out quick.
    In this age of baseball. An 830 ops and pretty good defense from a position that is usually an offensive black hole is worth a lot of money
    He's still been significantly worse for the Mariners than Dodgers. The general thought at the time seemed to be that Beltre would play at his Dodger level for a few more years. Last year was a pretty decent fall. This year has been off a cliff, but it is still early.

    It's not really about his position. It's about his production vs his production as a Dodge. He's paid 16 million to be one of the best players in baseball.
    This is the same mentality that made Mariners fans hate Adrian Beltre the whole time he was here and then discover he was fucking awesome after he left.

    Cano isn't close to the problem on this team.
    It also helped that Beltre started juicing again.
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  • RoadDawg55RoadDawg55 Member Posts: 30,123
    dnc said:

    RoadDawg55 said:

    dhdawg said:

    DerekJohnson said:

    dhdawg said:

    he leads the AL in doubles, not just 2B. He was not the robinson cano that he was in 2012 last year, but 5 WAR is still pretty good.
    And I said that what he's doing this year so far has been subpar, so I'm not sure why it matters how he stacks up to the average #3 hitter.
    .314/.382/.452 is well worth 24 million for a 2B. Now whether he can replicate that this year in the question.

    I think you're clinging to that statistical argument just for the sake of arguing. How can you justify that .314 and 14 homers is worth $24 million dollars? That's absurd. That's like saying "But how is Mark Emmert a bad president?"

    If I was staked with making the argument his contract IS worth it, I would argue that him leaving New York to come here made it plausible for Cruz to follow suit. And maybe, just maybe, it could start a trend in the future. But I highly doubt it, unless they get this pitching situation figured out quick.
    In this age of baseball. An 830 ops and pretty good defense from a position that is usually an offensive black hole is worth a lot of money
    He's still been significantly worse for the Mariners than Dodgers. The general thought at the time seemed to be that Beltre would play at his Dodger level for a few more years. Last year was a pretty decent fall. This year has been off a cliff, but it is still early.

    It's not really about his position. It's about his production vs his production as a Dodge. He's paid 16 million to be one of the best players in baseball.
    This is the same mentality that made Mariners fans hate Adrian Beltre the whole time he was here and then discover he was fucking awesome after he left.

    Cano isn't close to the problem on this team.
    To be fair, Beltre hit much worse for the Mariners than he has anywhere else in his career. He was pretty good for the Mariners. He's played at a Hall of Fame level since leaving. Not sure what there is to argue about that.

    A #3 hitter with Cano's numbers is a problem. Maybe not the problem, but everyone outside of Felix and Cruz has been a problem.

    Cano was brought in to provide at least a couple years of his 2009-2014 level. He hasn't done that. We all know why he was overpaid, and that it was necessary to get him to Seattle, but I think the general expectation was that he would sustain his Yankee level for at least a few years. Last year was a decent slip although he was still a very good player. This year he has slipped even further, at least early on.
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