I'll defend Peterman. Players fucked this up, not him

bananasnblondes

Here's bizarro-world UW/Zona game scenario that had a greater probability than what actually happened.
-Pete chooses to down the ball 3 times.
-With somewhere between 7 and 15 seconds left, UW has to snap the ball to Durkee
-Zona sends all out rush on the punter
-Durkee bobbles a high snap, then gets assraped by 3 Zona players while a 4th runs the ball into the end zone
-Kim, Millen, and everyone else goes nuts because Pete didn't do the "sure thing" which was to run the ball a couple times with sure-handed Cooper instead of giving the other team a chance at getting the ball back, especially when we had snapping problems all day and a slow punter.

What college coach would have taken a knee 3 times and punted when they were up by 1 point? I've never seen that shit happen. What I have seen in nearly identical situations is exactly what Pete called. However, I've never seen a RB put the ball on the ground in that situation.

Since I'm a realist and an asshole and don't have any problem shitting on the players, here's what lost us this 1 point game.
1) A QB who fumbled the ball twice without being touched (cost us at a 10 point swing)
2) A longsnapper snap the ball past the holder on an extra point (cost us 1 point)
3) A kicker clank a long, but very makeable field goal (cost us 3 points)
4) A QB who called a snap with 7 seconds left when trying to run the clock out (cost us 3 points/ winning field goal)
and finally
5) A 6th year RB who, in a situation where all he has to do is hold the ball and go down, tries to make a move and coughs it up

In all cases, these are not coaching issues (unless you are coaching middle school), these are issues of players being boneheads and not doing the simplest parts of their jobs. I don't fault the coaches for not spending extra time with Masiel practicing his extra point snaps this week, or giving Cyler practice holding onto the ball while he runs with it, or making sure 28 year old Deontae Cooper knows that he should hold the ball with 2 hands in that situation.

Does this look like a particularly well-coached and disciplined team? No. The countless penalties fucked us up as well and Pete does deserve blame for that but he deserves a very small portion of the blame for this loss. The coaches put the players in position to win the game (500 yards of offense, good defense) and they found every way imaginable to fuck it up.

What I find hilarious in the outrage by Kim and his retards about "how dare Petersen defend his decision not to kneel down 3 times and punt? He's so arrogant!!!"

He's defending it because it was the right decision, a decision any other coach in America would have made,and it should have never been an issue.

PurpleBaze

Upvoted for Durkee getting assraped by a bunch of Wildcats.

topdawgnc

The biggest / only issue I have with the game is not calling a time out at the end with 40 seconds left.

I've determined the game moves too fast for Miles.

doogville

Up vote for 28 yr old Cooper

Meek

I couldn't have put my own opinion in better words. I actually thought we looked really good for most of the game with the exception of the snapper and the qb. I hated the loss but came away thinking we are making progress as a program.

topdawgnc

Meek said:

I couldn't have put my own opinion in better words. I actually thought we looked really good for most of the game with the exception of the snapper and the qb. I hated the loss but came away thinking we are making progress as a program.

brah ...

HoustonHusky

So with Sark its effed up coaching...with Peterman its the players?

NYCdawg

wait a minute...whether you run or take a knee 3 times, assuming they don't get a 1st down running it, using your frame, there would've been "7 to 15 seconds left". your durkee-has-to-punt scenario would've played out either way right? durkee punted 5 times on Saturday...were any of those poor snaps? sorry but if we had to punt with "7 to 15 seconds left", i'll take my chances but there's a scenario where you milk the clock a bit on 2nd and 3rd downs while taking a knee that would've prevented you from having to punt it in the first place.

look...i believe petersen is going to get us over the hump and i also understand the "fuck all things dawgman" mindset here but good god...to say pete didn't fuck up managing this situation is laughable on its face.

the coaches coached their best game of the year and progress is being make but you can't say "The coaches put the players in position to win the game" and just forget about the end of the game...

this was the text book definition of a team loss and your "either/or" blame frame is flawed.

Tequilla

There are things the coaches could have done to further help win the game ...

There are things the players could have done to further help win the game ...

The coaches did a lot to put the team in a position to win ...

The players did a lot to put the team in a position to win ...

You win as a team ... You lose as a team.

Part of being a good team is picking each other up from mistakes ... consider this another lesson in the process.

TTJ

NYCdawg said:

wait a minute...whether you run or take a knee 3 times, assuming they don't get a 1st down running it, using your frame, there would've been "7 to 15 seconds left". your durkee-has-to-punt scenario would've played out either way right?

If you can't see the gigantic fallacy in this logic, there is literally no helping you.

DoogieMcDoogerson

I see progress. Clean some stuff up and the dawgs pull it together against oregon state and win rather easily, say 69-21.

UWerentThereMan

I see victory formation + punt all the TIME. Great coaches kneel 3 times and punt.

bananasnblondes

The point is no coach in America would choose to punt in that situation rather than hand off the ball to their rb to try to finish the game off. The same scenario has played out hundreds of times in the last few years and no one chickens out and punts because they think the rb will fumble.

RoadDawg55

bananasnblondes said:

The point is no coach in America would choose to punt in that situation rather than hand off the ball to their rb to try to finish the game off. The same scenario has played out hundreds of times in the last few years and no one chickens out and punts because they think the rb will fumble.

You are correct that the players had tons of fuck ups throughout the game. Ultimately, the coach is in charge. Sark wasn't out there fumbling and getting called for penalties either.

They wouldn't have needed to punt. I wasn't upset about running it at the time. I wasn't paying that close attention because I assumed the game was basically over, but it's been proven they could have kneeled. On 4th down, you could have ran around for a few seconds with Miles before throwing it deep out of bounds or going down. Tui did that in 2000 against ASU.

UWerentThereMan

RoadDawg55 said:

bananasnblondes said:

The point is no coach in America would choose to punt in that situation rather than hand off the ball to their rb to try to finish the game off. The same scenario has played out hundreds of times in the last few years and no one chickens out and punts because they think the rb will fumble.

You are correct that the players had tons of fuck ups throughout the game. Ultimately, the coach is in charge. Sark wasn't out there fumbling and getting called for penalties either.

They wouldn't have needed to punt. I wasn't upset about running it, but it's been proven they could have kneeled. On 4th down, you could have ran around for a few seconds with Miles before throwing it deep out of bounds or going down. Tui did that in 2000 against ASU.

Oh come on Roadie; that's crazy talk. Sark in his 4th year was fucking up and Tui >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Miley.
Any more of a stretch and you'll rip your dick right off brother.

RoadDawg55

UWerentThereMan said:

RoadDawg55 said:

bananasnblondes said:

The point is no coach in America would choose to punt in that situation rather than hand off the ball to their rb to try to finish the game off. The same scenario has played out hundreds of times in the last few years and no one chickens out and punts because they think the rb will fumble.

You are correct that the players had tons of fuck ups throughout the game. Ultimately, the coach is in charge. Sark wasn't out there fumbling and getting called for penalties either.

They wouldn't have needed to punt. I wasn't upset about running it, but it's been proven they could have kneeled. On 4th down, you could have ran around for a few seconds with Miles before throwing it deep out of bounds or going down. Tui did that in 2000 against ASU.

Oh come on Roadie; that's crazy talk. Sark in his 4th year was fucking up and Tui >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Miley.
Any more of a stretch and you'll rip your dick right off brother.

Awesomed for the last sentence. The point was Petersen should ultimately get at least some of the blame. Snapping with 7 seconds, one hand on the ball and fighting for extra yards by Cooper. Those are both cases of the players fucking up, but you can't completely absolve the guy in charge for this stuff. I actually think Tequilla has a point that they all share the blame in this. My personal opinion is to place more blame on the coach because he is ultimately in charge.

I don't know what point you are trying to make that Tui>>>>>> Miley. No shit. That's irrelevant to all of this. Miles can take a snap and run backwords for the final 5 seconds if that was needed on 4th down. Saying he might fuck it up is a throwaway statement because he can fuck up a handoff or taking a snap on a kneel down as well.

Anyways, if Cooper doesn't fumble this isn't talked about. I'm over it. It doesn't really matter. It was basically a fluke and can be argued about to no end. The players fucked up and it's reasonable to question some things Petersen did. It's not going to change anything and the season was at best medicore whether we won or lost.

Canard

If the clock mismanagement in Az were the only data point, FS coaching last Saturday would be a fluke. The Stanfurd game FS coaching moments suggest something else, but most here don't want to go there.

Tequilla

Stanford was Petersen's "welcome to the PAC" moment as that was shit that worked at Boise but won't work in the PAC ...

At the same time, he's trying to win the game and knew his offense wasn't going to get it done.

UWerentThereMan

RoadDawg55 said:

UWerentThereMan said:

RoadDawg55 said:

bananasnblondes said:

The point is no coach in America would choose to punt in that situation rather than hand off the ball to their rb to try to finish the game off. The same scenario has played out hundreds of times in the last few years and no one chickens out and punts because they think the rb will fumble.

You are correct that the players had tons of fuck ups throughout the game. Ultimately, the coach is in charge. Sark wasn't out there fumbling and getting called for penalties either.

They wouldn't have needed to punt. I wasn't upset about running it, but it's been proven they could have kneeled. On 4th down, you could have ran around for a few seconds with Miles before throwing it deep out of bounds or going down. Tui did that in 2000 against ASU.

Oh come on Roadie; that's crazy talk. Sark in his 4th year was fucking up and Tui >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Miley.
Any more of a stretch and you'll rip your dick right off brother.

Awesomed for the last sentence. The point was Petersen should ultimately get at least some of the blame. Snapping with 7 seconds, one hand on the ball and fighting for extra yards by Cooper. Those are both cases of the players fucking up, but you can't completely absolve the guy in charge for this stuff. I actually think Tequilla has a point that they all share the blame in this. My personal opinion is to place more blame on the coach because he is ultimately in charge.

I don't know what point you are trying to make that Tui>>>>>> Miley. No shit. That's irrelevant to all of this. Miles can take a snap and run backwords for the final 5 seconds if that was needed on 4th down. Saying he might fuck it up is a throwaway statement because he can fuck up a handoff or taking a snap on a kneel down as well.

Anyways, if Cooper doesn't fumble this isn't talked about. I'm over it. It doesn't really matter. It was basically a fluke and can be argued about to no end. The players fucked up and it's reasonable to question some things Petersen did. It's not going to change anything and the season was at best medicore whether we won or lost.

Blame can and should go to the top, agreed. The Tui equation only got brought up in response to your idea to just have Miley run around for 5 seconds like Tui did against Az St in 2000. Miles probably fucks up somehow, just what my charts say.

Not to be a moral victory type but they did outplay my expectations going into the game. And as others have noted, looking back I do see improvement. Probably the most improvement all season on offense. Maybe Arizona just laid down on defense ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

CFetters_Nacho_Lover

bananasnblondes said:

Here's bizarro-world UW/Zona game scenario that had a greater probability than what actually happened.
-Pete chooses to down the ball 3 times.
-With somewhere between 7 and 15 seconds left, UW has to snap the ball to Durkee
-Zona sends all out rush on the punter
-Durkee bobbles a high snap, then gets assraped by 3 Zona players while a 4th runs the ball into the end zone
-Kim, Millen, and everyone else goes nuts because Pete didn't do the "sure thing" which was to run the ball a couple times with sure-handed Cooper instead of giving the other team a chance at getting the ball back, especially when we had snapping problems all day and a slow punter.

What college coach would have taken a knee 3 times and punted when they were up by 1 point? I've never seen that shit happen. What I have seen in nearly identical situations is exactly what Pete called. However, I've never seen a RB put the ball on the ground in that situation.

Since I'm a realist and an asshole and don't have any problem shitting on the players, here's what lost us this 1 point game.

1) A QB who fumbled the ball twice without being touched (cost us at a 10 point swing) - Coaching can fix that. It's the not first game in which Miles has forced his own fumble.

2) A longsnapper snap the ball past the holder on an extra point (cost us 1 point) - Coaching. If we blamed fuckhead Johnny Nansen and ultimately Sark for shitty ST play under, Pete gets the blame here.

3) A kicker clank a long, but very makeable field goal (cost us 3 points) - Meh, it happens. Missed FGs happen.

4) A QB who called a snap with 7 seconds left when trying to run the clock out (cost us 3 points/ winning field goal) - Coaching again. Someone should've been in Miley's ear telling him to not snap the ball until there was less than 3 seconds on the clock.

and finally
5) A 6th year RB who, in a situation where all he has to do is hold the ball and go down, tries to make a move and coughs it up - Coaching. Again. If you're calling a running play, there should've been a coach in Cooper's ear telling him both hands on the ball, don't fight for extra yardage and give the defense more opportunity than needed to force a fumble.

In all cases, these are not coaching issues (unless you are coaching middle school), these are issues of players being boneheads and not doing the simplest parts of their jobs. I don't fault the coaches for not spending extra time with Masiel practicing his extra point snaps this week, or giving Cyler practice holding onto the ball while he runs with it, or making sure 28 year old Deontae Cooper knows that he should hold the ball with 2 hands in that situation.

Does this look like a particularly well-coached and disciplined team? No. The countless penalties fucked us up as well and Pete does deserve blame for that but he deserves a very small portion of the blame for this loss. The coaches put the players in position to win the game (500 yards of offense, good defense) and they found every way imaginable to fuck it up.

What I find hilarious in the outrage by Kim and his retards about "how dare Petersen defend his decision not to kneel down 3 times and punt? He's so arrogant!!!"

He's defending it because it was the right decision, a decision any other coach in America would have made,and it should have never been an issue.

Taking a knee makes sense in that situation but I also see the logic of trying to get another 1st down to completely ice the game.

I haven't see what Peterman said about his chart but I'm guessing he had something that said, if there's more than this much time left, run the ball or if there's less than this much time, take a knee. I have a hell of a lot more faith in a guy that has that shit planned in advance compared to a fat fuck like Sark who goes with his enormous gut feelings.

Imagine the outrage if it had been D Washington with his well-documented fumbling problems in there running the ball on 4th down.

UWerentThereMan

CFetters_Nacho_Lover said:

bananasnblondes said:

Here's bizarro-world UW/Zona game scenario that had a greater probability than what actually happened.
-Pete chooses to down the ball 3 times.
-With somewhere between 7 and 15 seconds left, UW has to snap the ball to Durkee
-Zona sends all out rush on the punter
-Durkee bobbles a high snap, then gets assraped by 3 Zona players while a 4th runs the ball into the end zone
-Kim, Millen, and everyone else goes nuts because Pete didn't do the "sure thing" which was to run the ball a couple times with sure-handed Cooper instead of giving the other team a chance at getting the ball back, especially when we had snapping problems all day and a slow punter.

What college coach would have taken a knee 3 times and punted when they were up by 1 point? I've never seen that shit happen. What I have seen in nearly identical situations is exactly what Pete called. However, I've never seen a RB put the ball on the ground in that situation.

Since I'm a realist and an asshole and don't have any problem shitting on the players, here's what lost us this 1 point game.

1) A QB who fumbled the ball twice without being touched (cost us at a 10 point swing) - Coaching can fix that. It's the not first game in which Miles has forced his own fumble.

2) A longsnapper snap the ball past the holder on an extra point (cost us 1 point) - Coaching. If we blamed fuckhead Johnny Nansen and ultimately Sark for shitty ST play under, Pete gets the blame here.

3) A kicker clank a long, but very makeable field goal (cost us 3 points) - Meh, it happens. Missed FGs happen.

4) A QB who called a snap with 7 seconds left when trying to run the clock out (cost us 3 points/ winning field goal) - Coaching again. Someone should've been in Miley's ear telling him to not snap the ball until there was less than 3 seconds on the clock.

and finally
5) A 6th year RB who, in a situation where all he has to do is hold the ball and go down, tries to make a move and coughs it up - Coaching. Again. If you're calling a running play, there should've been a coach in Cooper's ear telling him both hands on the ball, don't fight for extra yardage and give the defense more opportunity than needed to force a fumble.

In all cases, these are not coaching issues (unless you are coaching middle school), these are issues of players being boneheads and not doing the simplest parts of their jobs. I don't fault the coaches for not spending extra time with Masiel practicing his extra point snaps this week, or giving Cyler practice holding onto the ball while he runs with it, or making sure 28 year old Deontae Cooper knows that he should hold the ball with 2 hands in that situation.

Does this look like a particularly well-coached and disciplined team? No. The countless penalties fucked us up as well and Pete does deserve blame for that but he deserves a very small portion of the blame for this loss. The coaches put the players in position to win the game (500 yards of offense, good defense) and they found every way imaginable to fuck it up.

What I find hilarious in the outrage by Kim and his retards about "how dare Petersen defend his decision not to kneel down 3 times and punt? He's so arrogant!!!"

He's defending it because it was the right decision, a decision any other coach in America would have made,and it should have never been an issue.

Taking a knee makes sense in that situation but I also see the logic of trying to get another 1st down to completely ice the game.

I haven't see what Peterman said about his chart but I'm guessing he had something that said, if there's more than this much time left, run the ball or if there's less than this much time, take a knee. I have a hell of a lot more faith in a guy that has that shit planned in advance compared to a fat fuck like Sark who goes with his enormous gut feelings.

Imagine the outrage if it had been D Washington with his well-documented fumbling problems in there running the ball on 4th down.

Sark is the best play caller in America, enough said on that.
On the pacific twelves network, former coach Neuheisel said that every coach has a guy up in the box that has these charts. One side has the typical down and distance scenarios while the other has various clock situations.