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A Q for the bored re: Mexico
MikeDamone
Member Posts: 37,781
in Tug Tavern
Why can't they get their shit together? Rich in natural resources, on two major oceans, decent universities, boarders the USA...
What the hell? Why are they so fucked up?
What the hell? Why are they so fucked up?
Comments
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Your eyes are as good as mine.
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Because it is full of Mexicans.
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Because USA's drug lords are legal(pharmaceuticals), and theirs are illegal.
USA is making tons of money off their legal drugs via taxes, doc visits, etc etc
Mexico hords all their money in a few various cartels which pay no taxes.
Oh yeah, and mexican cartels murder and pay off everyone who doesn't agree with them. Small barrier to entry for most folks wanting to progress in the mexican society. -
Mexican organized crime makes 1920s Chicago look like it was being controlled by a bunch of priests
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But how are they a bad culture?
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In a sense, they have gotten their shit together. They're now the world's 13th richest economy, and according to Stratfor is on the rise.MikeDamone said:Why can't they get their shit together? Rich in natural resources, on two major oceans, decent universities, boarders the USA...
What the hell? Why are they so fucked up? -
Heisenberg - is that you?FreeChavez said:Because USA's drug lords are legal(pharmaceuticals), and theirs are illegal.
USA is making tons of money off their legal drugs via taxes, doc visits, etc etc
Mexico hords all their money in a few various cartels which pay no taxes.
Oh yeah, and mexican cartels murder and pay off everyone who doesn't agree with them. Small barrier to entry for most folks wanting to progress in the mexican society.
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reuters.com/article/2014/09/07/us-mexico-violence-insight-idUSKBN0H20JG20140907DerekJohnson said:
In a sense, they have gotten their shit together. They're now the world's 13th richest economy, and according to Stratfor is on the rise.MikeDamone said:Why can't they get their shit together? Rich in natural resources, on two major oceans, decent universities, boarders the USA...
What the hell? Why are they so fucked up? -
That's by GDP. That is not the best way to measure if a county is rich or not.DerekJohnson said:
In a sense, they have gotten their shit together. They're now the world's 13th richest economy, and according to Stratfor is on the rise.MikeDamone said:Why can't they get their shit together? Rich in natural resources, on two major oceans, decent universities, boarders the USA...
What the hell? Why are they so fucked up?
businessinsider.com/top-countries-on-oecd-better-life-index-2013-5?op=1
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Why do you say they are a bad culture? Most americans view of mexicans come from 2 things. Drugs, and the constant rhetoric surrounding illegals in the USA.MikeDamone said:But how are they a bad culture?
The first is truly hilarious b/c of exactly what I posted above. Pharmaceutical drugs are far more damaging on American society today than what mexican cartels traffic. The difference is that they tend to kill a lot of people in mexico which again makes our news. If we actually posted how many deaths associated with opiate OD's every year as often as we see drug cartel snippets maybe we'd see change.
The second is that illegals are ruining our country. There are plenty of people with their hands out, but there is quite a lot of data to support illegals are nowhere near the reasoning for various budgetary issues. However, many Americans get news from Fox which completely stunts any real world knowledge or common sense.
I have been down to mexico many times, and been around quite a few wonderful people and communities. Surely they are not as developed as the US, but many of the smaller towns(away from tourists areas) are full of great people. Many have simple lives which aren't a country of consumption and the constant rat race.
I would argue that the US has helped keep them in a certain corner based on our "war on drugs". We have made cartels as powerful as they are, not the mexican communities. Had we legalized weed years ago, and even lessened the penalties for other hard drugs the market would be vastly diminished, and so would their power. Instead we have driven so much money into their pockets it has allowed the various cartels to run the country.
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Faux News lolFreeChavez said:
Why do you say they are a bad culture? Most americans view of mexicans come from 2 things. Drugs, and the constant rhetoric surrounding illegals in the USA.MikeDamone said:But how are they a bad culture?
The first is truly hilarious b/c of exactly what I posted above. Pharmaceutical drugs are far more damaging on American society today than what mexican cartels traffic. The difference is that they tend to kill a lot of people in mexico which again makes our news. If we actually posted how many deaths associated with opiate OD's every year as often as we see drug cartel snippets maybe we'd see change.
The second is that illegals are ruining our country. There are plenty of people with their hands out, but there is quite a lot of data to support illegals are nowhere near the reasoning for various budgetary issues. However, many Americans get news from Fox which completely stunts any real world knowledge or common sense.
I have been down to mexico many times, and been around quite a few wonderful people and communities. Surely they are not as developed as the US, but many of the smaller towns(away from tourists areas) are full of great people. Many have simple lives which aren't a country of consumption and the constant rat race.
I would argue that the US has helped keep them in a certain corner based on our "war on drugs". We have made cartels as powerful as they are, not the mexican communities. Had we legalized weed years ago, and even lessened the penalties for other hard drugs the market would be vastly diminished, and so would their power. Instead we have driven so much money into their pockets it has allowed the various cartels to run the country.
Its our fault
Got it
There are a lot of great Mexican immigrants here legal or otherwise
You might want to take a look around the bored and pm IrishDawg22. He has this place dialed in -
Lots of logical fallacies here. All of that means nothing in terms of the argument here.FreeChavez said:
Why do you say they are a bad culture? Most americans view of mexicans come from 2 things. Drugs, and the constant rhetoric surrounding illegals in the USA.MikeDamone said:But how are they a bad culture?
The first is truly hilarious b/c of exactly what I posted above. Pharmaceutical drugs are far more damaging on American society today than what mexican cartels traffic. The difference is that they tend to kill a lot of people in mexico which again makes our news. If we actually posted how many deaths associated with opiate OD's every year as often as we see drug cartel snippets maybe we'd see change.
The second is that illegals are ruining our country. There are plenty of people with their hands out, but there is quite a lot of data to support illegals are nowhere near the reasoning for various budgetary issues. However, many Americans get news from Fox which completely stunts any real world knowledge or common sense.
I have been down to mexico many times, and been around quite a few wonderful people and communities. Surely they are not as developed as the US, but many of the smaller towns(away from tourists areas) are full of great people. Many have simple lives which aren't a country of consumption and the constant rat race.
I would argue that the US has helped keep them in a certain corner based on our "war on drugs". We have made cartels as powerful as they are, not the mexican communities. Had we legalized weed years ago, and even lessened the penalties for other hard drugs the market would be vastly diminished, and so would their power. Instead we have driven so much money into their pockets it has allowed the various cartels to run the country.
The question is with such vast resources, both human and natural, why are they such a mess that they are not a first world country? Despite there being "great people" there, is there a cultural issue that is keeping them from prosperity?
world.time.com/2012/07/05/the-challenge-of-mexicos-next-president-the-corruption-at-the-heart-of-crime/ -
FreeChavez said:
Why do you say they are a bad culture? Most americans view of mexicans come from 2 things. Drugs, and the constant rhetoric surrounding illegals in the USA.MikeDamone said:But how are they a bad culture?
The first is truly hilarious b/c of exactly what I posted above. Pharmaceutical drugs are far more damaging on American society today than what mexican cartels traffic. The difference is that they tend to kill a lot of people in mexico which again makes our news. If we actually posted how many deaths associated with opiate OD's every year as often as we see drug cartel snippets maybe we'd see change.
The second is that illegals are ruining our country. There are plenty of people with their hands out, but there is quite a lot of data to support illegals are nowhere near the reasoning for various budgetary issues. However, many Americans get news from Fox which completely stunts any real world knowledge or common sense.
I have been down to mexico many times, and been around quite a few wonderful people and communities. Surely they are not as developed as the US, but many of the smaller towns(away from tourists areas) are full of great people. Many have simple lives which aren't a country of consumption and the constant rat race.
I would argue that the US has helped keep them in a certain corner based on our "war on drugs". We have made cartels as powerful as they are, not the mexican communities. Had we legalized weed years ago, and even lessened the penalties for other hard drugs the market would be vastly diminished, and so would their power. Instead we have driven so much money into their pockets it has allowed the various cartels to run the country.
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Mexico just needs more time.
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Just out of curiosity, what is your reasoning for the lack of movement within the country? Corruption within cartels and government certainly contribute mightily, but can't be blamed for everything.
Is the infrastructure poorly planned out where intercontinental commerce is preventing growth?
What are mexico's main exports? Have they focused on bringing in various corporations to invest in the country? I know car manufacturers and some electronic companies have recently started movement in Mexico. I can't remember but I believe one of the TV companies manufacturers most of their TV's in the country.
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whatshouldicareabout said:
You really want to argue that the opiate trade, along with handing a pill out for just about any ailment isn't more damaging long term both financially and healthwise to our society?FreeChavez said:
Pharmaceutical drugs are far more damaging on American society today than what mexican cartels traffic.MikeDamone said:But how are they a bad culture?
CDC’s analysis shows that 38,329 people died from a drug overdose in the United States in 2010, up from 37,004 deaths in 2009. This continues the steady rise in overdose deaths seen over the past 11 years, starting with 16,849 deaths in 1999. Overdose deaths involving opioid analgesics have shown a similar increase. Starting with 4,030 deaths in 1999, the number of deaths increased to 15,597 in 2009 and 16,651 in 2010.
according to surveys by the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration, part of the Department of Health and Human Services. Annual overdose deaths attributed to heroin hit 3,094 in 2010
We all know weed is 0.
So 17k people are dying from pain pills, 3k from heroin. Yup, it's really not a pharm issue.
BTW, this is totally off topic and should be a different thread to argue this. Let's get back to the main mexico question of the original poster(and yes i know i went off in that direction first) -
Opening up Pemex to foreign expertise (ideally American companies like Exxon or Chevron) was a start. So was throwing that corrupt nasty who for all intents and purposes ran the country's education system as the head of the teacher's union
FreeChavez said:Just out of curiosity, what is your reasoning for the lack of movement within the country? Corruption within cartels and government certainly contribute mightily, but can't be blamed for everything.
Is the infrastructure poorly planned out where intercontinental commerce is preventing growth?
What are mexico's main exports? Have they focused on bringing in various corporations to invest in the country? I know car manufacturers and some electronic companies have recently started movement in Mexico. I can't remember but I believe one of the TV companies manufacturers most of their TV's in the country. -
FreeChavez said:
Red herring.whatshouldicareabout said:
You really want to argue that the opiate trade, along with handing a pill out for just about any ailment isn't more damaging long term both financially and healthwise to our society?FreeChavez said:
Pharmaceutical drugs are far more damaging on American society today than what mexican cartels traffic.MikeDamone said:But how are they a bad culture?
CDC’s analysis shows that 38,329 people died from a drug overdose in the United States in 2010, up from 37,004 deaths in 2009. This continues the steady rise in overdose deaths seen over the past 11 years, starting with 16,849 deaths in 1999. Overdose deaths involving opioid analgesics have shown a similar increase. Starting with 4,030 deaths in 1999, the number of deaths increased to 15,597 in 2009 and 16,651 in 2010.
according to surveys by the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration, part of the Department of Health and Human Services. Annual overdose deaths attributed to heroin hit 3,094 in 2010
We all know weed is 0.
So 17k people are dying from pain pills, 3k from heroin. Yup, it's really not a pharm issue.
BTW, this is totally off topic and should be a different thread to argue this. Let's get back to the main mexico question of the original poster(and yes i know i went off in that direction first) -
Wait until Mexico gets their own guys in here.TierbsHsotBoobs said:Mexico just needs more time.
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Actually, I think the problem might be they do have their own guys in there.PurpleThrobber said:
Wait until Mexico gets their own guys in here.TierbsHsotBoobs said:Mexico just needs more time.
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¿Por qué dices que son una mala cultura? La mayoría de los estadounidenses ven de los mexicanos provienen de 2 cosas. Las drogas, y la retórica constante que rodea los ilegales en los EE.UU..FreeChavez said:
Why do you say they are a bad culture? Most americans view of mexicans come from 2 things. Drugs, and the constant rhetoric surrounding illegals in the USA.MikeDamone said:But how are they a bad culture?
The first is truly hilarious b/c of exactly what I posted above. Pharmaceutical drugs are far more damaging on American society today than what mexican cartels traffic. The difference is that they tend to kill a lot of people in mexico which again makes our news. If we actually posted how many deaths associated with opiate OD's every year as often as we see drug cartel snippets maybe we'd see change.
The second is that illegals are ruining our country. There are plenty of people with their hands out, but there is quite a lot of data to support illegals are nowhere near the reasoning for various budgetary issues. However, many Americans get news from Fox which completely stunts any real world knowledge or common sense.
I have been down to mexico many times, and been around quite a few wonderful people and communities. Surely they are not as developed as the US, but many of the smaller towns(away from tourists areas) are full of great people. Many have simple lives which aren't a country of consumption and the constant rat race.
I would argue that the US has helped keep them in a certain corner based on our "war on drugs". We have made cartels as powerful as they are, not the mexican communities. Had we legalized weed years ago, and even lessened the penalties for other hard drugs the market would be vastly diminished, and so would their power. Instead we have driven so much money into their pockets it has allowed the various cartels to run the country.
La primera es realmente hilarante b / c de exactamente lo que he publicado anteriormente. Los productos farmacéuticos son mucho más perjudicial en la sociedad estadounidense hoy en día que lo que el tráfico de los cárteles mexicanos. La diferencia es que tienden a matar a un montón de gente en México que a su vez hace que nuestras noticias. Si realmente hemos publicado cuántas muertes relacionadas con opiáceos de OD todos los años con la frecuencia que vemos fragmentos de carteles de las drogas tal vez verían cambio.
La segunda es que los ilegales están arruinando nuestro país. Hay un montón de gente con sus manos extendidas, pero hay un buen montón de datos para apoyar los ilegales son ni de lejos el razonamiento para diversas cuestiones presupuestarias. Sin embargo, muchos estadounidenses reciben noticias de Fox lo que frena por completo cualquier conocimiento del mundo real o el sentido común.
He ido a México muchas veces, y ha sido en torno a un buen número de gente maravillosa y comunidades. Seguro que ellos no son tan desarrollados como los EE.UU., pero muchas de las ciudades más pequeñas (lejos de las zonas turísticas) están llenos de grandes personas. Muchos tienen vidas sencillas que no son un país de consumo y de la carrera de ratas constante.
Yo diría que los EE.UU. han ayudado a mantener en una esquina determinada sobre la base de nuestra "guerra contra las drogas". Hemos hecho los carteles tan poderosos como son, no las comunidades mexicanas. Si hubiéramos legalizado maleza hace años, e incluso disminuido las penas por otras drogas duras el mercado se vería disminuido considerablemente, por lo que sería su poder. En lugar de ello hemos impulsado tanto dinero en sus bolsillos que ha permitido a los diferentes cárteles para gobernar el país. -
Mexico you say?
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It's getting to be like revenge of the nerds around here
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uw2010 said:It's getting to be like revenge of the nerds around here
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no estoy de acuerdomonroecougdad said:
¿Por qué dices que son una mala cultura? La mayoría de los estadounidenses ven de los mexicanos provienen de 2 cosas. Las drogas, y la retórica constante que rodea los ilegales en los EE.UU..FreeChavez said:
Why do you say they are a bad culture? Most americans view of mexicans come from 2 things. Drugs, and the constant rhetoric surrounding illegals in the USA.MikeDamone said:But how are they a bad culture?
The first is truly hilarious b/c of exactly what I posted above. Pharmaceutical drugs are far more damaging on American society today than what mexican cartels traffic. The difference is that they tend to kill a lot of people in mexico which again makes our news. If we actually posted how many deaths associated with opiate OD's every year as often as we see drug cartel snippets maybe we'd see change.
The second is that illegals are ruining our country. There are plenty of people with their hands out, but there is quite a lot of data to support illegals are nowhere near the reasoning for various budgetary issues. However, many Americans get news from Fox which completely stunts any real world knowledge or common sense.
I have been down to mexico many times, and been around quite a few wonderful people and communities. Surely they are not as developed as the US, but many of the smaller towns(away from tourists areas) are full of great people. Many have simple lives which aren't a country of consumption and the constant rat race.
I would argue that the US has helped keep them in a certain corner based on our "war on drugs". We have made cartels as powerful as they are, not the mexican communities. Had we legalized weed years ago, and even lessened the penalties for other hard drugs the market would be vastly diminished, and so would their power. Instead we have driven so much money into their pockets it has allowed the various cartels to run the country.
La primera es realmente hilarante b / c de exactamente lo que he publicado anteriormente. Los productos farmacéuticos son mucho más perjudicial en la sociedad estadounidense hoy en día que lo que el tráfico de los cárteles mexicanos. La diferencia es que tienden a matar a un montón de gente en México que a su vez hace que nuestras noticias. Si realmente hemos publicado cuántas muertes relacionadas con opiáceos de OD todos los años con la frecuencia que vemos fragmentos de carteles de las drogas tal vez verían cambio.
La segunda es que los ilegales están arruinando nuestro país. Hay un montón de gente con sus manos extendidas, pero hay un buen montón de datos para apoyar los ilegales son ni de lejos el razonamiento para diversas cuestiones presupuestarias. Sin embargo, muchos estadounidenses reciben noticias de Fox lo que frena por completo cualquier conocimiento del mundo real o el sentido común.
He ido a México muchas veces, y ha sido en torno a un buen número de gente maravillosa y comunidades. Seguro que ellos no son tan desarrollados como los EE.UU., pero muchas de las ciudades más pequeñas (lejos de las zonas turísticas) están llenos de grandes personas. Muchos tienen vidas sencillas que no son un país de consumo y de la carrera de ratas constante.
Yo diría que los EE.UU. han ayudado a mantener en una esquina determinada sobre la base de nuestra "guerra contra las drogas". Hemos hecho los carteles tan poderosos como son, no las comunidades mexicanas. Si hubiéramos legalizado maleza hace años, e incluso disminuido las penas por otras drogas duras el mercado se vería disminuido considerablemente, por lo que sería su poder. En lugar de ello hemos impulsado tanto dinero en sus bolsillos que ha permitido a los diferentes cárteles para gobernar el país. -
They still consider burros as cars.MikeDamone said:Why can't they get their shit together? Rich in natural resources, on two major oceans, decent universities, boarders the USA...
What the hell? Why are they so fucked up? -
Some good points.FreeChavez said:
Why do you say they are a bad culture? Most americans view of mexicans come from 2 things. Drugs, and the constant rhetoric surrounding illegals in the USA.MikeDamone said:But how are they a bad culture?
The first is truly hilarious b/c of exactly what I posted above. Pharmaceutical drugs are far more damaging on American society today than what mexican cartels traffic. The difference is that they tend to kill a lot of people in mexico which again makes our news. If we actually posted how many deaths associated with opiate OD's every year as often as we see drug cartel snippets maybe we'd see change.
The second is that illegals are ruining our country. There are plenty of people with their hands out, but there is quite a lot of data to support illegals are nowhere near the reasoning for various budgetary issues. However, many Americans get news from Fox which completely stunts any real world knowledge or common sense.
I have been down to mexico many times, and been around quite a few wonderful people and communities. Surely they are not as developed as the US, but many of the smaller towns(away from tourists areas) are full of great people. Many have simple lives which aren't a country of consumption and the constant rat race.
I would argue that the US has helped keep them in a certain corner based on our "war on drugs". We have made cartels as powerful as they are, not the mexican communities. Had we legalized weed years ago, and even lessened the penalties for other hard drugs the market would be vastly diminished, and so would their power. Instead we have driven so much money into their pockets it has allowed the various cartels to run the country.
Very ethnocentric for people in the US to sit in judgement of other cultures. That's why everyone loves us so much. -
