Is it time fire Scott Servais?
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Mariners gonna Mariner
DiPoto is an idiot for that entire presser …
But it all starts with ownership and their priorities … proof is in the pudding there -
In reference to "Old School" vs. analytics, an MLB.com writer posted that in Buck Showalter's exit interview after being tarmac'ed by the Mets, Buck referred the analytics department as, "a bunch of cymbal-clanging monkeys"...also, he was forced to play Vogelbach by the GM as they crashed and burned...strange tims we live in...
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NoWhat's Chinteresting is that the Met's GM just stepped down.
I do wonder if there is tension between Servais, Dipoto, and Stanton. Servais didn't do his best job this year and was 6-14 in extra inning games while Dipoto doesn't seem to have much margin for error from Stanton. I thought Dipoto had thread the needle by acquiring Teo Hernandez and not having to pay him too much while AJ Pollock has always mashed LHP and at $8 million to platoon with Kelenic in LF and part-time DH, a reasonable cost. Wong had a good year in 2022 and the Cards threw in some money to take the sting out of his salary. I wonder if Dipoto had wanted to a different position player or two but Stanton blocked him on money. Meanwhile, Stanton probably feels like Dipoto's budget is good enough and that he and Servais just didn't figure it out.
I am guessing Stanton is giving them each 1 more year and saying to use the money better (Pollock and Wong cost nearly $20 million) rather than increasing the budget. In an ideal world, he'd let Dipoto spend another $20 - $25 million but he probably won't which means Dipoto could make a QO to Teo Hernandez, lose him to FA, get the comp pick, and then trade for a very good 1B and / or DH with prospect capital. The big draft haul makes it more palatable to do it that way.
I'd love to see the M's make a trade with the White Sox by getting Andrew Vaughn at 1B and Eloy Jimenez at DH (and very occasional RF) for Ty France, Gabriel Gonzalez, Emerson Hancock, and Tyler Locklear.
I would love to see them go after Bellinger or Alonso but both are probably too expensive for ownership since each will want a 3 or 4 year deal and at least $22 million per. -
I don’t care too much about big ticket free agent moves. They are often overrated and most fail.
My main thing is the strikeouts. Suarez, Kelenic, Teo, Julio, and Raleigh. They all strike out at a high rate. None of them walk a ton either. It kills rallies. Let Teo go and I’m still trading Kelenic. If we were mashing HR’s like the Braves, the strikeouts would be fine, but we are not.
The starting pitching has the potential to win in the playoffs. Make minor changes, get more bullpen arms, and getting 4A type position players that have specific skill sets that are needed and are on the cusp.
Spending a bunch of money does not often work, but it does get the fans excited. I don’t see the impact free agents available this year. -
No
Ohtani. 'Nuff said on that.RoadDawg55 said:I don’t care too much about big ticket free agent moves. They are often overrated and most fail.
My main thing is the strikeouts. Suarez, Kelenic, Teo, Julio, and Raleigh. They all strike out at a high rate. None of them walk a ton either. It kills rallies. Let Teo go and I’m still trading Kelenic. If we were mashing HR’s like the Braves, the strikeouts would be fine, but we are not.
The starting pitching has the potential to win in the playoffs. Make minor changes, get more bullpen arms, and getting 4A type position players that have specific skill sets that are needed and are on the cusp.
Spending a bunch of money does not often work, but it does get the fans excited. I don’t see the impact free agents available this year. -
The disastrous presser, paired with Dip's walk-back, has forced their hand, IMO...The butts in the seats have been restless since 95, and they need to make a BIG splash here to keep the $$$ rolling. Dip's mistake was hammering on 'the Process"...that is "in house" talk, not public-facing. Nobody wants to hear about the labor pains, just show me the freaking baby...RoadDawg55 said:I don’t care too much about big ticket free agent moves. They are often overrated and most fail.
My main thing is the strikeouts. Suarez, Kelenic, Teo, Julio, and Raleigh. They all strike out at a high rate. None of them walk a ton either. It kills rallies. Let Teo go and I’m still trading Kelenic. If we were mashing HR’s like the Braves, the strikeouts would be fine, but we are not.
The starting pitching has the potential to win in the playoffs. Make minor changes, get more bullpen arms, and getting 4A type position players that have specific skill sets that are needed and are on the cusp.
Spending a bunch of money does not often work, but it does get the fans excited. I don’t see the impact free agents available this year.
Upon further review, this may be a calculated move by Dip to put pressure on ownership...wouldn't be the first time. He is a smart guy (despite his continued attempts to remind us), and he knows that his tenure has reached critical mass...
IF they can get Ohtani, re-sign Teo. If not, go after Bellinger, let Teo walk, and find a competent replacement for France.
For me, you aren't going to trade first-round tools under control and get equal value in return. Bellinger was a dead-ass out for 3 years, and apparently has figured it out, at age 28. I am not willing to trade Kelenic at age 24 for sub-optimal return, and risk seeing 2-3 years of Canzone and Marlowe flanking Julio...
Teo and Geno are living proof of the old adage that "You can't walk off the island"...(Yes, I do know that Venezuela is not an island, but still...). Cal is Cal, and I wouldn't trade 15 HR's for 75 less strike outs and a .240 average. JK hit 10 points above league average, and has ceiling. You could make a case that he was on pace for 20+ HR before his time out, and hit .259 against LHP.
Bottom line for me: they have to swing big, and make contact...
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NoThe Ms have a good core but they want to wait for someone or a couple of someones, like Kelenic for example, to really bust out and be the big add that puts it over the top. That would be amazing but it's the least likely way.
Their pitching staff has had two in house starters really bust out (Gilbert, Kirby) and they spent money on two guys (Ray, Castillo) to fill it out. They've been remarkably unwilling to add one good position player or a combo of two slightly cheaper ones at a similar cost to what they paid for pitching. I didn't want them to shell out $300mil for Trea Turner, but they should be willing to add $200mil over 5 years for two guys.
Ohtani only makes sense if you can get him and also make a significant upgrade at least one other position. This lineup needs another JP at a minimum...high on base, low strikeouts, .800 ops... plus Ohtani or it needs 2-3 significantly higher ops guys in place of France, Suarez and Teoscar.
If Kelenic can help bring a guy or two like that then I'm fine with moving him. If he can't then he's a fine player and he can stay for my part, but hoping for him to be something he hasn't yet been is dumb. Hope is not a strategy. Plus he's a high K% guy at his best and doesn't help raise the team OBP%. They need someone else. -
Yes
I believe they're the only club to never make a Whirled Series. They're the Lions and Cardinals of MLB.BleachedAnusDawg said:It's time to fire the Seattle Mariners. Should have let them move to Tampa. This franchise is a perpetual loser and will never be shit without a big dick owner. The team would be better off being owned by Bezos.
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That is the kit-and-kaboodle...The baseball business, summed up. You are evaluating players based on what you think they can be , not based on who they are. They are ALL going to suck, over periods of time. Julio sucked, Cal sucked, a lot of people wanted JP out of here last year. I get what you are saying, and refer back to the Adam Jones / Adrian Belte / Varitek HOF...no one knows when to fish or cut bait, and the M's history is to cut bait at the honey hole...chuck said:The Ms have a good core but they want to wait for someone or a couple of someones, like Kelenic for example, to really bust out and be the big add that puts it over the top. That would be amazing but it's the least likely way.
Their pitching staff has had two in house starters really bust out (Gilbert, Kirby) and they spent money on two guys (Ray, Castillo) to fill it out. They've been remarkably unwilling to add one good position player or a combo of two slightly cheaper ones at a similar cost to what they paid for pitching. I didn't want them to shell out $300mil for Trea Turner, but they should be willing to add $200mil over 5 years for two guys.
Ohtani only makes sense if you can get him and also make a significant upgrade at least one other position. This lineup needs another JP at a minimum...high on base, low strikeouts, .800 ops... plus Ohtani or it needs 2-3 significantly higher ops guys in place of France, Suarez and Teoscar.
If Kelenic can help bring a guy or two like that then I'm fine with moving him. If he can't then he's a fine player and he can stay for my part, but hoping for him to be something he hasn't yet been is dumb. Hope is not a strategy. Plus he's a high K% guy at his best and doesn't help raise the team OBP%. They need someone else. -
No
The point is that you can afford to keep guys like Kelenic based on what you think they can be, but putting too many eggs in that basket is a strategy that leads to more losing most of the time. Yes anyone can suck for any given time frame, but betting on guys who have realized their potential at some point gives you better odds of it working out than someone who hasn't done it yet but you think/hope is capable.Fishpo31 said:
That is the kit-and-kaboodle...The baseball business, summed up. You are evaluating players based on what you think they can be , not based on who they are. They are ALL going to suck, over periods of time. Julio sucked, Cal sucked, a lot of people wanted JP out of here last year. I get what you are saying, and refer back to the Adam Jones / Adrian Belte / Varitek HOF...no one knows when to fish or cut bait, and the M's history is to cut bait at the honey hole...chuck said:The Ms have a good core but they want to wait for someone or a couple of someones, like Kelenic for example, to really bust out and be the big add that puts it over the top. That would be amazing but it's the least likely way.
Their pitching staff has had two in house starters really bust out (Gilbert, Kirby) and they spent money on two guys (Ray, Castillo) to fill it out. They've been remarkably unwilling to add one good position player or a combo of two slightly cheaper ones at a similar cost to what they paid for pitching. I didn't want them to shell out $300mil for Trea Turner, but they should be willing to add $200mil over 5 years for two guys.
Ohtani only makes sense if you can get him and also make a significant upgrade at least one other position. This lineup needs another JP at a minimum...high on base, low strikeouts, .800 ops... plus Ohtani or it needs 2-3 significantly higher ops guys in place of France, Suarez and Teoscar.
If Kelenic can help bring a guy or two like that then I'm fine with moving him. If he can't then he's a fine player and he can stay for my part, but hoping for him to be something he hasn't yet been is dumb. Hope is not a strategy. Plus he's a high K% guy at his best and doesn't help raise the team OBP%. They need someone else.
And, again, Kelenic doesn't project to be the guy they're really missing. High K guys with power are not hard to find (even within their org) and that's what he is as a hitter.
