Is it time fire Scott Servais?
Is it time fire Scott Servais? 12 votes
4 votes
8 votes
Comments
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NoNo, but clearly need to make a major change about how to develop hitters in the minor league system, do a better job of evaluating and drafting hitters, make the investment to build the evaluation and development network structure for international players, and it would be a huge help to get proven hitters in free agency that don't fold up with the challenge of hitting in the home park environment ~ all of which says that identifying and going out and getting a big time Player Development / Assistant GM guy at the top in addition to the current GM, and then spending the money to fund the build out of improved infrastructure would be my priority. No problem, Right?
Switching managers for a proven big time guy that can attract big time hitters / players would be great (Piniella did that for Seattle, Baker has done that, Bochy has done that for Texas) would be great as well, but until we get more talent in the lineup and spend more resources within the development system, i don't think that is the current scenario difference maker. -
Yes
Then we will keep treading water and be in the same position next year. When the pressure is on this team folds. The only thing that has ever changed that was Piniella's presence and attitudeTheRoarOfTheCrowd said:No, but clearly need to make a major change about how to develop hitters in the minor league system, do a better job of evaluating and drafting hitters, make the investment to build the evaluation and development network structure for international players, and it would be a huge help to get proven hitters in free agency that don't fold up with the challenge of hitting in the home park environment ~ all of which says that identifying and going out and getting a big time Player Development / Assistant GM guy at the top in addition to the current GM, and then spending the money to fund the build out of improved infrastructure would be my priority. No problem, Right?
Switching managers for a proven big time guy that can attract big time hitters / players would be great (Piniella did that for Seattle, Baker has done that, Bochy has done that for Texas) would be great as well, but until we get more talent in the lineup and spend more resources within the development system, i don't think that is the current scenario difference maker. -
The switch to analytics has taken the game-management piece away from managers. He is a people manager, first and foremost. It takes the infamous “managing with your gut” out of the equation, which, IMO is a major negative, but it is what it is. Lou could not manage today, as well as a lot of others. I could manage today, because I would be told who to play and when to play them…not that I would want to.
It looks like he runs a good clubhouse, but it also has a shelf life. We revere Lou, but I remember the shots of Griffey an others laughing hysterically at Lou railing at umpires, defending them. Woodworth is very good with the pitchers, and Perry Hill is maybe second only to Ron Washington as an infield coach. -
NoI don't think it would help them. They need better hitters and for the pitchers to not give up so many long balls.
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Nogive him another year or two imo.
if they cant make a run in the next two years then its over regardless. fire everyone and blow the whole thing up. -
It's always time
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Yes
There's still the people element. Of course Lou could manage today.Fishpo31 said:The switch to analytics has taken the game-management piece away from managers. He is a people manager, first and foremost. It takes the infamous “managing with your gut” out of the equation, which, IMO is a major negative, but it is what it is. Lou could not manage today, as well as a lot of others. I could manage today, because I would be told who to play and when to play them…not that I would want to.
It looks like he runs a good clubhouse, but it also has a shelf life. We revere Lou, but I remember the shots of Griffey an others laughing hysterically at Lou railing at umpires, defending them. Woodworth is very good with the pitchers, and Perry Hill is maybe second only to Ron Washington as an infield coach. -
NoI have gone back and forth on this but @Fishpo31 made the good point that his surrounding staff is good.
I don't like that Servais is 6-14 in extra innings though 2024 is when ownership opens their wallets and lets Jerry get Servais 1 or 2 professional hitters to extend the line-up. Having France at 1B and Haggerty at DH when it's win or go home time (Saturday) is not a winning strategy.
I don't really know who to blame for the players brought in who should have done well enough but bombed. Wong cost the M's $8.25 million (Brewers paid $1.75 for the $10 million) and Pollock cost $8 million. Adding insult to injury is that Evan White will cost $7 million in 2024.
If the M's can spend that $16.25 million (from Pollock / Wong), they could get a hitter like Bellinger, assuming his shoulder checks out.
I'm not sure what they do with Marco and France as their combined contracts are over $10 million but neither of them seem to have a full-time spot with the M's for 2024. If they do, there is something wrong. -
I have the utmost respect for Lou Piniella, as a player, a coach, and as a baseball man. The game has changed, evolved for better or worse. Sure, he could manage, but would he?DerekJohnson said:
There's still the people element. Of course Lou could manage today.Fishpo31 said:The switch to analytics has taken the game-management piece away from managers. He is a people manager, first and foremost. It takes the infamous “managing with your gut” out of the equation, which, IMO is a major negative, but it is what it is. Lou could not manage today, as well as a lot of others. I could manage today, because I would be told who to play and when to play them…not that I would want to.
It looks like he runs a good clubhouse, but it also has a shelf life. We revere Lou, but I remember the shots of Griffey an others laughing hysterically at Lou railing at umpires, defending them. Woodworth is very good with the pitchers, and Perry Hill is maybe second only to Ron Washington as an infield coach.
I have found exclusive footage of Lou Piniella, in his triumphant return to the dug out, in his first strategy meeting with the analytics department, none of whom ever played professional baseball (or college, for that matter), with freshly-minted mathematics degrees from Ivy League schools...
https://youtu.be/YSPaLiTBL3E?si=Jj9J7teiklAgaiIS
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NoAnyone feel like a Cal Raleigh trade would be less than shocking?
I'm not suggesting it so don't twist.
He's disgruntled and spoke up about it. He's a Scott Boras client. He has a lot of value and is probably not going to resign with Seattle down the road (I don't remember if he's down to 1 or 2 arb years).
I hope not. Nobody is untouchable in my mind though. Not if you can make clear, overall upgrades. -
I think it would be shocking, especially since pretty much every current player has his back publicly, and he speaks the truth…the telling statement in his apology: “I’m not going to apologize for wanting to win”…chuck said:Anyone feel like a Cal Raleigh trade would be less than shocking?
I'm not suggesting it so don't twist.
He's disgruntled and spoke up about it. He's a Scott Boras client. He has a lot of value and is probably not going to resign with Seattle down the road (I don't remember if he's down to 1 or 2 arb years).
I hope not. Nobody is untouchable in my mind though. Not if you can make clear, overall upgrades. -
No
Agreed, but things can get messy when a guy speaks up and says his teammates as a whole weren't good enough. The players have his back, but I have to assume that everytime someone talks like that, most players spend a moment wondering if they're the ones that need to be upgraded on. France has to be in that boat right now. Geno too maybe, and probably Kelenic.Fishpo31 said:
I think it would be shocking, especially since pretty much every current player has his back publicly, and he speaks the truth…the telling statement in his apology: “I’m not going to apologize for wanting to win”…chuck said:Anyone feel like a Cal Raleigh trade would be less than shocking?
I'm not suggesting it so don't twist.
He's disgruntled and spoke up about it. He's a Scott Boras client. He has a lot of value and is probably not going to resign with Seattle down the road (I don't remember if he's down to 1 or 2 arb years).
I hope not. Nobody is untouchable in my mind though. Not if you can make clear, overall upgrades.
Plus the Boras factor... -
France yes, Kelenic no...He's 24 and has a chance to be a dude for years. First rounder, first round tools, if you do he will go into the Adam Jones / Variek / Lowe / C. Taylor / all the others Hall of Fame...He made a big jump for me this year, and proved he can hit left handers. He was a MLB average player this year, can play all three spots. Lots of upside still. All you will find to replace him is a .230 hitter who hits 25 bombs and punches out 180 times, and you have one of those in Geno. Sign a DH (Ohtani) and 1B (Bellinger?) and you can carry a borderline gold glove defender who hits 25-30, drives in 80,, and punches out 180.chuck said:
Agreed, but things can get messy when a guy speaks up and says his teammates as a whole weren't good enough. The players have his back, but I have to assume that everytime someone talks like that, most players spend a moment wondering if they're the ones that need to be upgraded on. France has to be in that boat right now. Geno too maybe, and probably Kelenic.Fishpo31 said:
I think it would be shocking, especially since pretty much every current player has his back publicly, and he speaks the truth…the telling statement in his apology: “I’m not going to apologize for wanting to win”…chuck said:Anyone feel like a Cal Raleigh trade would be less than shocking?
I'm not suggesting it so don't twist.
He's disgruntled and spoke up about it. He's a Scott Boras client. He has a lot of value and is probably not going to resign with Seattle down the road (I don't remember if he's down to 1 or 2 arb years).
I hope not. Nobody is untouchable in my mind though. Not if you can make clear, overall upgrades.
Plus the Boras factor...
Cal is 26, and spent part of last year in AAA. He is a centerpiece. It takes time, and it takes patience. Boras isn't going anywhere. Pay the man.
As for Cal, yeah, it was ugly, but it was in the heat of the moment. Nothing he said wasn't true. Maybe it will wake up Stanton, et al., and help the ownership realize that they are perceived (accurately) as cheap. They go as far as their pitching takes them, which is not far enough.
AAAAAND, if you are wondering if Cal was talking about you, it is you... -
No
Would you sign Bellinger to a 4 year, $75 million deal to play 1B and JD Martinez to be the DH at a 1 year, $12 million deal? I see ownership paying lip-service to Ohtani but not wanting to shell out $30 million (plus) as they would deem it too risky.Fishpo31 said:
France yes, Kelenic no...He's 24 and has a chance to be a dude for years. First rounder, first round tools, if you do he will go into the Adam Jones / Variek / Lowe / C. Taylor / all the others Hall of Fame...He made a big jump for me this year, and proved he can hit left handers. He was a MLB average player this year, can play all three spots. Lots of upside still. All you will find to replace him is a .230 hitter who hits 25 bombs and punches out 180 times, and you have one of those in Geno. Sign a DH (Ohtani) and 1B (Bellinger?) and you can carry a borderline gold glove defender who hits 25-30, drives in 80,, and punches out 180.chuck said:
Agreed, but things can get messy when a guy speaks up and says his teammates as a whole weren't good enough. The players have his back, but I have to assume that everytime someone talks like that, most players spend a moment wondering if they're the ones that need to be upgraded on. France has to be in that boat right now. Geno too maybe, and probably Kelenic.Fishpo31 said:
I think it would be shocking, especially since pretty much every current player has his back publicly, and he speaks the truth…the telling statement in his apology: “I’m not going to apologize for wanting to win”…chuck said:Anyone feel like a Cal Raleigh trade would be less than shocking?
I'm not suggesting it so don't twist.
He's disgruntled and spoke up about it. He's a Scott Boras client. He has a lot of value and is probably not going to resign with Seattle down the road (I don't remember if he's down to 1 or 2 arb years).
I hope not. Nobody is untouchable in my mind though. Not if you can make clear, overall upgrades.
Plus the Boras factor...
Cal is 26, and spent part of last year in AAA. He is a centerpiece. It takes time, and it takes patience. Boras isn't going anywhere. Pay the man.
As for Cal, yeah, it was ugly, but it was in the heat of the moment. Nothing he said wasn't true. Maybe it will wake up Stanton, et al., and help the ownership realize that they are perceived (accurately) as cheap. They go as far as their pitching takes them, which is not far enough.
AAAAAND, if you are wondering if Cal was talking about you, it is you... -
No
For the record I have no interest in moving Raleigh even for a massive haul. He's the heart and soul of the team to me and is crazy productive for a catcher. I'd be fucking pissed. I've just heard/seen a couple of people discussing the topic and thought I'd bring it up while playing a little devil's advocate.Fishpo31 said:
France yes, Kelenic no...He's 24 and has a chance to be a dude for years. First rounder, first round tools, if you do he will go into the Adam Jones / Variek / Lowe / C. Taylor / all the others Hall of Fame...He made a big jump for me this year, and proved he can hit left handers. He was a MLB average player this year, can play all three spots. Lots of upside still. All you will find to replace him is a .230 hitter who hits 25 bombs and punches out 180 times, and you have one of those in Geno. Sign a DH (Ohtani) and 1B (Bellinger?) and you can carry a borderline gold glove defender who hits 25-30, drives in 80,, and punches out 180.chuck said:
Agreed, but things can get messy when a guy speaks up and says his teammates as a whole weren't good enough. The players have his back, but I have to assume that everytime someone talks like that, most players spend a moment wondering if they're the ones that need to be upgraded on. France has to be in that boat right now. Geno too maybe, and probably Kelenic.Fishpo31 said:
I think it would be shocking, especially since pretty much every current player has his back publicly, and he speaks the truth…the telling statement in his apology: “I’m not going to apologize for wanting to win”…chuck said:Anyone feel like a Cal Raleigh trade would be less than shocking?
I'm not suggesting it so don't twist.
He's disgruntled and spoke up about it. He's a Scott Boras client. He has a lot of value and is probably not going to resign with Seattle down the road (I don't remember if he's down to 1 or 2 arb years).
I hope not. Nobody is untouchable in my mind though. Not if you can make clear, overall upgrades.
Plus the Boras factor...
Cal is 26, and spent part of last year in AAA. He is a centerpiece. It takes time, and it takes patience. Boras isn't going anywhere. Pay the man.
As for Cal, yeah, it was ugly, but it was in the heat of the moment. Nothing he said wasn't true. Maybe it will wake up Stanton, et al., and help the ownership realize that they are perceived (accurately) as cheap. They go as far as their pitching takes them, which is not far enough.
AAAAAND, if you are wondering if Cal was talking about you, it is you...
Kelenic made progress in some ways and is a good all round player who costs nothing and still has high potential. If he was a really sought after guy I'd be willing to listen but I think he's more valuable as a Mariner than he would be in a trade.
My wants are a couple of bats to upgrade at 1b and DH, and a high leverage relief arm. I think Seattle would be in the playoffs right now if they hadn't lost Sewald (but still added Rojas and Canzone) or had filled his spot appropriately. I also hope to never see Haggerty ever again, at least not getting crucial, late inning ABs because of matchups. Better bench bats are out there. -
No
hes gone the first chance he gets.chuck said:Anyone feel like a Cal Raleigh trade would be less than shocking?
I'm not suggesting it so don't twist.
He's disgruntled and spoke up about it. He's a Scott Boras client. He has a lot of value and is probably not going to resign with Seattle down the road (I don't remember if he's down to 1 or 2 arb years).
I hope not. Nobody is untouchable in my mind though. Not if you can make clear, overall upgrades.
and so is kirby.
not that i want them to go. but why would a winner want to stay with this loser franchise.
please stay. but i know youre gone. and i dont blame you. -
No
Well here's a (somewhat) realistic line-up that could get them back to the playoffs:phineas said:
hes gone the first chance he gets.chuck said:Anyone feel like a Cal Raleigh trade would be less than shocking?
I'm not suggesting it so don't twist.
He's disgruntled and spoke up about it. He's a Scott Boras client. He has a lot of value and is probably not going to resign with Seattle down the road (I don't remember if he's down to 1 or 2 arb years).
I hope not. Nobody is untouchable in my mind though. Not if you can make clear, overall upgrades.
and so is kirby.
not that i want them to go. but why would a winner want to stay with this loser franchise.
please stay. but i know youre gone. and i dont blame you.
SS: Crawford
CF: Julio
1B: Cody Bellinger (4 year, $96 million)
DH: JD Martinez (1 year, $14 million but be willing to go up to $17)
C: Cal
RF: Teo (ideally he's back on a 2 year, $34 million deal but he'll probably want 3 or 4...RF market is pretty weak)
LF: Kelenic
3B: Suarez (Matt Chapman isn't that much better so I see them rolling with Geno 1 more year)
2B: Rojas
If Marco is healthy, can the M's trade his $12.5 million salary for a lottery ticket if they through in $4 million? The M's can't trade Ray until after he is healthy and I don't see a team taking on his $22 million salary.
Another route the M's could go (depending on who they sign) is a package of Hancock, France, and Trammell or Zach DeLoach for a good / controllable RF who is cheaper than Teo (or JD Martinez and move Teo to DH). I am also optimistic on Canzone, I think he'll do pretty well against RHP next year and I want to see him on the roster.
I don't see the M's going all-in for Ohtani unless they run with Canzone at RF with Dylan Moore backing him up against some LHPs. They would save around $17 million by going cheaper there but Ohtani would take DH in 2024 while still needing to solve 1B (Bellinger with Ty backing him and Ohtani up as the RH 1B / DH)? -
if their people think Bellinger is fixed, yes. I think the situation for Bellinger is good, because he doesn't come in being "The Guy"...He brings length, and has some protection.HFNY said:
Would you sign Bellinger to a 4 year, $75 million deal to play 1B and JD Martinez to be the DH at a 1 year, $12 million deal? I see ownership paying lip-service to Ohtani but not wanting to shell out $30 million (plus) as they would deem it too risky.Fishpo31 said:
France yes, Kelenic no...He's 24 and has a chance to be a dude for years. First rounder, first round tools, if you do he will go into the Adam Jones / Variek / Lowe / C. Taylor / all the others Hall of Fame...He made a big jump for me this year, and proved he can hit left handers. He was a MLB average player this year, can play all three spots. Lots of upside still. All you will find to replace him is a .230 hitter who hits 25 bombs and punches out 180 times, and you have one of those in Geno. Sign a DH (Ohtani) and 1B (Bellinger?) and you can carry a borderline gold glove defender who hits 25-30, drives in 80,, and punches out 180.chuck said:
Agreed, but things can get messy when a guy speaks up and says his teammates as a whole weren't good enough. The players have his back, but I have to assume that everytime someone talks like that, most players spend a moment wondering if they're the ones that need to be upgraded on. France has to be in that boat right now. Geno too maybe, and probably Kelenic.Fishpo31 said:
I think it would be shocking, especially since pretty much every current player has his back publicly, and he speaks the truth…the telling statement in his apology: “I’m not going to apologize for wanting to win”…chuck said:Anyone feel like a Cal Raleigh trade would be less than shocking?
I'm not suggesting it so don't twist.
He's disgruntled and spoke up about it. He's a Scott Boras client. He has a lot of value and is probably not going to resign with Seattle down the road (I don't remember if he's down to 1 or 2 arb years).
I hope not. Nobody is untouchable in my mind though. Not if you can make clear, overall upgrades.
Plus the Boras factor...
Cal is 26, and spent part of last year in AAA. He is a centerpiece. It takes time, and it takes patience. Boras isn't going anywhere. Pay the man.
As for Cal, yeah, it was ugly, but it was in the heat of the moment. Nothing he said wasn't true. Maybe it will wake up Stanton, et al., and help the ownership realize that they are perceived (accurately) as cheap. They go as far as their pitching takes them, which is not far enough.
AAAAAND, if you are wondering if Cal was talking about you, it is you...
I heard that they were inquiring about Martinez last offseason, and were told he was not interested in Seattle. He's a Miami guy, and also heard that he can be a handful if not happy.
The question for me is, would you pay 35-40MM per for Ohtani's bat? I would. It will probably take somewhere north of 50MM per to sign him, and Stanton needs to do it. It's time to shit or get off the pot...
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No
I've gone back and forth especially after the injury, but I'm with you now. I'd pay whatever it took to get Ohtani. I think he puts butts in the seat, sells merch, and sells advertising enough to cover a pretty big chunk of his salary. Retiring that guy a mariner would be worth quite a bit for many years after too.Fishpo31 said:
if their people think Bellinger is fixed, yes. I think the situation for Bellinger is good, because he doesn't come in being "The Guy"...He brings length, and has some protection.HFNY said:
Would you sign Bellinger to a 4 year, $75 million deal to play 1B and JD Martinez to be the DH at a 1 year, $12 million deal? I see ownership paying lip-service to Ohtani but not wanting to shell out $30 million (plus) as they would deem it too risky.Fishpo31 said:
France yes, Kelenic no...He's 24 and has a chance to be a dude for years. First rounder, first round tools, if you do he will go into the Adam Jones / Variek / Lowe / C. Taylor / all the others Hall of Fame...He made a big jump for me this year, and proved he can hit left handers. He was a MLB average player this year, can play all three spots. Lots of upside still. All you will find to replace him is a .230 hitter who hits 25 bombs and punches out 180 times, and you have one of those in Geno. Sign a DH (Ohtani) and 1B (Bellinger?) and you can carry a borderline gold glove defender who hits 25-30, drives in 80,, and punches out 180.chuck said:
Agreed, but things can get messy when a guy speaks up and says his teammates as a whole weren't good enough. The players have his back, but I have to assume that everytime someone talks like that, most players spend a moment wondering if they're the ones that need to be upgraded on. France has to be in that boat right now. Geno too maybe, and probably Kelenic.Fishpo31 said:
I think it would be shocking, especially since pretty much every current player has his back publicly, and he speaks the truth…the telling statement in his apology: “I’m not going to apologize for wanting to win”…chuck said:Anyone feel like a Cal Raleigh trade would be less than shocking?
I'm not suggesting it so don't twist.
He's disgruntled and spoke up about it. He's a Scott Boras client. He has a lot of value and is probably not going to resign with Seattle down the road (I don't remember if he's down to 1 or 2 arb years).
I hope not. Nobody is untouchable in my mind though. Not if you can make clear, overall upgrades.
Plus the Boras factor...
Cal is 26, and spent part of last year in AAA. He is a centerpiece. It takes time, and it takes patience. Boras isn't going anywhere. Pay the man.
As for Cal, yeah, it was ugly, but it was in the heat of the moment. Nothing he said wasn't true. Maybe it will wake up Stanton, et al., and help the ownership realize that they are perceived (accurately) as cheap. They go as far as their pitching takes them, which is not far enough.
AAAAAND, if you are wondering if Cal was talking about you, it is you...
I heard that they were inquiring about Martinez last offseason, and were told he was not interested in Seattle. He's a Miami guy, and also heard that he can be a handful if not happy.
The question for me is, would you pay 35-40MM per for Ohtani's bat? I would. It will probably take somewhere north of 50MM per to sign him, and Stanton needs to do it. It's time to shit or get off the pot...
I really think any argument about him costing too much is short sighted. There should be two budgets. One that you think makes you a playoff team and WS contender, and the other should be for Ohtani. -
Yes
The "would he?" question is certainly validFishpo31 said:
I have the utmost respect for Lou Piniella, as a player, a coach, and as a baseball man. The game has changed, evolved for better or worse. Sure, he could manage, but would he?DerekJohnson said:
There's still the people element. Of course Lou could manage today.Fishpo31 said:The switch to analytics has taken the game-management piece away from managers. He is a people manager, first and foremost. It takes the infamous “managing with your gut” out of the equation, which, IMO is a major negative, but it is what it is. Lou could not manage today, as well as a lot of others. I could manage today, because I would be told who to play and when to play them…not that I would want to.
It looks like he runs a good clubhouse, but it also has a shelf life. We revere Lou, but I remember the shots of Griffey an others laughing hysterically at Lou railing at umpires, defending them. Woodworth is very good with the pitchers, and Perry Hill is maybe second only to Ron Washington as an infield coach.
I have found exclusive footage of Lou Piniella, in his triumphant return to the dug out, in his first strategy meeting with the analytics department, none of whom ever played professional baseball (or college, for that matter), with freshly-minted mathematics degrees from Ivy League schools...https://youtu.be/YSPaLiTBL3E?si=Jj9J7teiklAgaiIS -
YesThis turned into a very interesting thread
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No
The end-of-season press conference sure made it sound like they won't go after Ohtani since he is a "big name". He'd fit perfectly at DH for 2024 and then he could be the 4th or 5th starter in 2025, which would allow them to trade a starter to fill any hole that would open up.chuck said:
I've gone back and forth especially after the injury, but I'm with you now. I'd pay whatever it took to get Ohtani. I think he puts butts in the seat, sells merch, and sells advertising enough to cover a pretty big chunk of his salary. Retiring that guy a mariner would be worth quite a bit for many years after too.Fishpo31 said:
if their people think Bellinger is fixed, yes. I think the situation for Bellinger is good, because he doesn't come in being "The Guy"...He brings length, and has some protection.HFNY said:
Would you sign Bellinger to a 4 year, $75 million deal to play 1B and JD Martinez to be the DH at a 1 year, $12 million deal? I see ownership paying lip-service to Ohtani but not wanting to shell out $30 million (plus) as they would deem it too risky.Fishpo31 said:
France yes, Kelenic no...He's 24 and has a chance to be a dude for years. First rounder, first round tools, if you do he will go into the Adam Jones / Variek / Lowe / C. Taylor / all the others Hall of Fame...He made a big jump for me this year, and proved he can hit left handers. He was a MLB average player this year, can play all three spots. Lots of upside still. All you will find to replace him is a .230 hitter who hits 25 bombs and punches out 180 times, and you have one of those in Geno. Sign a DH (Ohtani) and 1B (Bellinger?) and you can carry a borderline gold glove defender who hits 25-30, drives in 80,, and punches out 180.chuck said:
Agreed, but things can get messy when a guy speaks up and says his teammates as a whole weren't good enough. The players have his back, but I have to assume that everytime someone talks like that, most players spend a moment wondering if they're the ones that need to be upgraded on. France has to be in that boat right now. Geno too maybe, and probably Kelenic.Fishpo31 said:
I think it would be shocking, especially since pretty much every current player has his back publicly, and he speaks the truth…the telling statement in his apology: “I’m not going to apologize for wanting to win”…chuck said:Anyone feel like a Cal Raleigh trade would be less than shocking?
I'm not suggesting it so don't twist.
He's disgruntled and spoke up about it. He's a Scott Boras client. He has a lot of value and is probably not going to resign with Seattle down the road (I don't remember if he's down to 1 or 2 arb years).
I hope not. Nobody is untouchable in my mind though. Not if you can make clear, overall upgrades.
Plus the Boras factor...
Cal is 26, and spent part of last year in AAA. He is a centerpiece. It takes time, and it takes patience. Boras isn't going anywhere. Pay the man.
As for Cal, yeah, it was ugly, but it was in the heat of the moment. Nothing he said wasn't true. Maybe it will wake up Stanton, et al., and help the ownership realize that they are perceived (accurately) as cheap. They go as far as their pitching takes them, which is not far enough.
AAAAAND, if you are wondering if Cal was talking about you, it is you...
I heard that they were inquiring about Martinez last offseason, and were told he was not interested in Seattle. He's a Miami guy, and also heard that he can be a handful if not happy.
The question for me is, would you pay 35-40MM per for Ohtani's bat? I would. It will probably take somewhere north of 50MM per to sign him, and Stanton needs to do it. It's time to shit or get off the pot...
I really think any argument about him costing too much is short sighted. There should be two budgets. One that you think makes you a playoff team and WS contender, and the other should be for Ohtani.
I'm not even sure if they'll go after Bellinger since he easily could be considered a big name. -
NoAnd if they go the trade route, who should they target? Andrew Vaughn of the White Sox would be a good fit but he would cost at least Hancock, a highly rated A or A+ level prospect, along with including France.
I would love Josh Naylor from the Indians but I doubt Cleveland will part with him unless it was a King's ransom (Hancock, Miller / Woo, a highly rated prospect, and France). -
NoIt's time to fire the Seattle Mariners. Should have let them move to Tampa. This franchise is a perpetual loser and will never be shit without a big dick owner. The team would be better off being owned by Bezos.
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No
I didn't watch or listen. I gleaned enough from watching part of the Locked On show and some headlines to know that I didn't want to hear it. It's no time to throw my remote through the TV when I have so much other shopping to do right now.HFNY said:
The end-of-season press conference sure made it sound like they won't go after Ohtani since he is a "big name". He'd fit perfectly at DH for 2024 and then he could be the 4th or 5th starter in 2025, which would allow them to trade a starter to fill any hole that would open up.chuck said:
I've gone back and forth especially after the injury, but I'm with you now. I'd pay whatever it took to get Ohtani. I think he puts butts in the seat, sells merch, and sells advertising enough to cover a pretty big chunk of his salary. Retiring that guy a mariner would be worth quite a bit for many years after too.Fishpo31 said:
if their people think Bellinger is fixed, yes. I think the situation for Bellinger is good, because he doesn't come in being "The Guy"...He brings length, and has some protection.HFNY said:
Would you sign Bellinger to a 4 year, $75 million deal to play 1B and JD Martinez to be the DH at a 1 year, $12 million deal? I see ownership paying lip-service to Ohtani but not wanting to shell out $30 million (plus) as they would deem it too risky.Fishpo31 said:
France yes, Kelenic no...He's 24 and has a chance to be a dude for years. First rounder, first round tools, if you do he will go into the Adam Jones / Variek / Lowe / C. Taylor / all the others Hall of Fame...He made a big jump for me this year, and proved he can hit left handers. He was a MLB average player this year, can play all three spots. Lots of upside still. All you will find to replace him is a .230 hitter who hits 25 bombs and punches out 180 times, and you have one of those in Geno. Sign a DH (Ohtani) and 1B (Bellinger?) and you can carry a borderline gold glove defender who hits 25-30, drives in 80,, and punches out 180.chuck said:
Agreed, but things can get messy when a guy speaks up and says his teammates as a whole weren't good enough. The players have his back, but I have to assume that everytime someone talks like that, most players spend a moment wondering if they're the ones that need to be upgraded on. France has to be in that boat right now. Geno too maybe, and probably Kelenic.Fishpo31 said:
I think it would be shocking, especially since pretty much every current player has his back publicly, and he speaks the truth…the telling statement in his apology: “I’m not going to apologize for wanting to win”…chuck said:Anyone feel like a Cal Raleigh trade would be less than shocking?
I'm not suggesting it so don't twist.
He's disgruntled and spoke up about it. He's a Scott Boras client. He has a lot of value and is probably not going to resign with Seattle down the road (I don't remember if he's down to 1 or 2 arb years).
I hope not. Nobody is untouchable in my mind though. Not if you can make clear, overall upgrades.
Plus the Boras factor...
Cal is 26, and spent part of last year in AAA. He is a centerpiece. It takes time, and it takes patience. Boras isn't going anywhere. Pay the man.
As for Cal, yeah, it was ugly, but it was in the heat of the moment. Nothing he said wasn't true. Maybe it will wake up Stanton, et al., and help the ownership realize that they are perceived (accurately) as cheap. They go as far as their pitching takes them, which is not far enough.
AAAAAND, if you are wondering if Cal was talking about you, it is you...
I heard that they were inquiring about Martinez last offseason, and were told he was not interested in Seattle. He's a Miami guy, and also heard that he can be a handful if not happy.
The question for me is, would you pay 35-40MM per for Ohtani's bat? I would. It will probably take somewhere north of 50MM per to sign him, and Stanton needs to do it. It's time to shit or get off the pot...
I really think any argument about him costing too much is short sighted. There should be two budgets. One that you think makes you a playoff team and WS contender, and the other should be for Ohtani.
I'm not even sure if they'll go after Bellinger since he easily could be considered a big name.
Dipoto didn't impress from what I gathered. -
It wasn't good, but they can't go in there and say "We fucked the whole thing up", or "The players that we are paid to acquire, evaluate and develop sucked". And most definitely NOT "Ownership has tied our hands on bringing in stud free-agents". They have to tip-toe around all of it, even if, in varying degrees, some or all of it is true.
I thought Dip danced around it pretty well, in that he referenced the big ticket guys they have brought in in the past. That they brought in the wrong guys at the right time, or the right guys at the wrong time is a given. Any urgency on his part in the kick-ass presser is a direct shot at ownership, which is not particularly conducive to job security, present or future.
The fact is, pitchers want to come here, for the same reason hitters don't. The weather is a deal, and the travel thing is a factor as well. I would guarantee none of the big 3 shortstops considered Seattle last year. They picked where they wanted to be, and they are all in the playoffs. Moogs (?) will say that they were wise to stay with JP, but flip him to 2B and bring in a big-time SS and whadda ya got then?
Once guys get here I think they like it, but getting them to sign on the line that is dotted is hard.
The line-up is set by analytics, not by Servais. So is the bullpen usage. Yes, there is discussion and push back, but that is why you see winning, successful managers get fired. Baseball guys will be happy winning with analytics, and will push back hard if it doesn't work. It is much more comfortable to explain failure with numbers than it is to say, "Well, Joe had a really strong gut feel for Bob in that situation"...
They had a competitive roster that was thinned on the back end because of injuries. Ray and Marco going down blew out the bullpen. Imagine Woo, Miller, Hancock, et al, in the pen this year. Losing Murfee (and Murphy) didn't help down the stretch. Murphy and Cal switching off catching and DH'ing was pretty good, for a while.
My wish list: DH, 1B, LH pen arm...
IMO, it comes down to ownership...do they want to win a title, or are they happy selling tickets? It is a question asked since 95, and the band plays on...
-
No
Maybe they'll trade for someone like Andrew Vaughn or Eloy Jimenez from the White Sox. Jimenez would make more sense from the White Sox side since he'd be a salary dump (due $13.3 million next year and a $3 million buyout after the 2024 season) and they could get back prospects like Hancock, Aidan Smith, along with a bat like Ty France.Fishpo31 said:It wasn't good, but they can't go in there and say "We fucked the whole thing up", or "The players that we are paid to acquire, evaluate and develop sucked". And most definitely NOT "Ownership has tied our hands on bringing in stud free-agents". They have to tip-toe around all of it, even if, in varying degrees, some or all of it is true.
I thought Dip danced around it pretty well, in that he referenced the big ticket guys they have brought in in the past. That they brought in the wrong guys at the right time, or the right guys at the wrong time is a given. Any urgency on his part in the kick-ass presser is a direct shot at ownership, which is not particularly conducive to job security, present or future.
The fact is, pitchers want to come here, for the same reason hitters don't. The weather is a deal, and the travel thing is a factor as well. I would guarantee none of the big 3 shortstops considered Seattle last year. They picked where they wanted to be, and they are all in the playoffs. Moogs (?) will say that they were wise to stay with JP, but flip him to 2B and bring in a big-time SS and whadda ya got then?
Once guys get here I think they like it, but getting them to sign on the line that is dotted is hard.
The line-up is set by analytics, not by Servais. So is the bullpen usage. Yes, there is discussion and push back, but that is why you see winning, successful managers get fired. Baseball guys will be happy winning with analytics, and will push back hard if it doesn't work. It is much more comfortable to explain failure with numbers than it is to say, "Well, Joe had a really strong gut feel for Bob in that situation"...
They had a competitive roster that was thinned on the back end because of injuries. Ray and Marco going down blew out the bullpen. Imagine Woo, Miller, Hancock, et al, in the pen this year. Losing Murfee (and Murphy) didn't help down the stretch. Murphy and Cal switching off catching and DH'ing was pretty good, for a while.
My wish list: DH, 1B, LH pen arm...
IMO, it comes down to ownership...do they want to win a title, or are they happy selling tickets? It is a question asked since 95, and the band plays on...
If they want Vaughn (cheaper and controllable for longer), they'd have to swap out Smith and include someone like Jonatan Clase. -
NoTo me, DiPoto comes off as a guy who would rather be able to tell you how smart he is by making a bunch of obscure trades for reclamation projects, versus signing a big ticket guy that takes no imagination to put together.
I recognize ownership has the final say, but he is an arrogant prick who says that the fans should be thanking him for not making the playoffs. -
No
That 54% shit sounded pretty dumb to me too. That pretty much means alternating between making and not making the playoffs. Yeah that should keep the stadium full.BleachedAnusDawg said:To me, DiPoto comes off as a guy who would rather be able to tell you how smart he is by making a bunch of obscure trades for reclamation projects, versus signing a big ticket guy that takes no imagination to put together.
I recognize ownership has the final say, but he is an arrogant prick who says that the fans should be thanking him for not making the playoffs. -
Yeah, I don’t see how anyone could think that this should be part of the message that you want to project…the nerds have taken over…chuck said:
That 54% shit sounded pretty dumb to me too. That pretty much means alternating between making and not making the playoffs. Yeah that should keep the stadium full.BleachedAnusDawg said:To me, DiPoto comes off as a guy who would rather be able to tell you how smart he is by making a bunch of obscure trades for reclamation projects, versus signing a big ticket guy that takes no imagination to put together.
I recognize ownership has the final say, but he is an arrogant prick who says that the fans should be thanking him for not making the playoffs.
“Tell your statistics to shut up”. -Charlie Brown
