ACLU

MikeDamone

oregonblitzkrieg said:

dnc said:

oregonblitzkrieg said:

My viewpoint is that if the presence of new immigrants adversely affects the economic situation of any group of American citizens (I know, you think it's ok to overlook the high school dropouts), they should be prevented from coming here.

This is basically unAmerican. Not just the willful disregard for America The Melting Pot, The Statue Of Liberty and all that. But our economy, watered down though it may be, is essentially founded on the principle that competition brings out best in people and that stifling competition brings out the worst. Immigration is good for the economy as a whole and competition is good for the high school dropouts. What's the problem?

Also last I checked dropping out of high school was a choice, with consequences. As the only high school graduate of four children in my family I have a real hard time feeling sorry for those who didn't give a fuck in school.

The idea that competition brings out the best in people is overrated. Sure it makes most people give their best effort. But it also breeds a cutthroat dog eat dog atmosphere. Why allow foreigners to compete for a slice of the American pie? They can do that in their own countries. America was founded by immigrants, blah, blah. True. But that's no longer very relevant in this day and age. We now have more than 300 million people. We don't need millions more people competing for the limited amount of resources and money available here. The economy is already stretched thin as it is. I wonder what China would think of your immigration stance.

You really don't get it. This all goes back to our previous discussions regarding your lack of basic knowledge of economics. You have some core options that have no basis in any model of prosperity that has ever existed.

Just as a start, your first lesson needs to be that the economy isn't a fixed pie. I know we have been over this economic fallacy and I provided some links for you to educate yourself on the basics, but for some reason you either do your homework. Or maybe you have read them and disagree. If that is the case, I would like to hear your position in why you think the economy is a fixed pie..with citations of course, not just what you think or heard somewhere.

TIA

MikeDamone

dnc said:

oregonblitzkrieg said:

dnc said:

oregonblitzkrieg said:

My viewpoint is that if the presence of new immigrants adversely affects the economic situation of any group of American citizens (I know, you think it's ok to overlook the high school dropouts), they should be prevented from coming here.

This is basically unAmerican. Not just the willful disregard for America The Melting Pot, The Statue Of Liberty and all that. But our economy, watered down though it may be, is essentially founded on the principle that competition brings out best in people and that stifling competition brings out the worst. Immigration is good for the economy as a whole and competition is good for the high school dropouts. What's the problem?

Also last I checked dropping out of high school was a choice, with consequences. As the only high school graduate of four children in my family I have a real hard time feeling sorry for those who didn't give a fuck in school.

The idea that competition brings out the best in people is overrated. Sure it makes most people give their best effort. But it also breeds a cutthroat dog eat dog atmosphere. Why allow foreigners to compete for a slice of the American pie? They can do that in their own countries. America was founded by immigrants, blah, blah. True. But that's no longer very relevant in this day and age. We now have more than 300 million people. We don't need millions more people competing for the limited amount of resources and money available here. The economy is already stretched thin as it is. I wonder what China would think of your immigration stance.

Fuck China. Why do you hate AMERICA, dammit?

OTOH, suggesting we should take our immigration policy ideas from a communist nation of over a billion seems extremely relevant, so kudos for that.

OBK just can't seem to make an argument without throwing out a logical fallacy. It's his M.O.

oregonblitzkrieg

An anti-American leach on the taxpayer that needs to DIAF

MikeDamone said:

oregonblitzkrieg said:

My viewpoint is that if the presence of new immigrants adversely affects the economic situation of any group of American citizens (I know, you think it's ok to overlook the high school dropouts), they should be prevented from coming here.

Are you saying that even though the overall economy and well being of the majority is increased, your basis for closing boarders is to protect high school drop outs? That's fine is you are, I just want to know if that's the foundation of your position.

Your utilitarian viewpoint that has some merit. But I don't agree that a vast horde of unskilled latinos will improve the well being of the overall economy and the majority. When Rome was at its height everyone wanted a piece of it. Their society gradually caved and caved to the point that eventually they even had emperors that were no longer Roman. It became too much of a melting pot and in time the barbarians overwhelmed it.

Even now Europe is undergoing a change. It's become infested with muslims/arabs. Walk around in Marseilles and you won't be able to tell if you're in France or Turkey. There are small towns in England that have been overrun. You really wonder if you're in England or Morocco. France experiences muslim/arab riots. Britain puts up with them calling for the destruction of their own nation.

Obviously latinos are a more peaceable people. I'm not racist. I have nothing against them. At the same time I'm not really eager to see them become the majority. I really doubt Europeans are eager to see arabs become the majority there either. Plenty of room in Mexico, Central America and South America for citizens in that area the world to live and flourish. They don't need to do it here. Also you will have to extend your logic to embrace hostile arabs/muslims that have no intention of assimilating as well, since your policy would be a completely open border.

oregonblitzkrieg

An anti-American leach on the taxpayer that needs to DIAF

dnc said:

oregonblitzkrieg said:

dnc said:

oregonblitzkrieg said:

My viewpoint is that if the presence of new immigrants adversely affects the economic situation of any group of American citizens (I know, you think it's ok to overlook the high school dropouts), they should be prevented from coming here.

This is basically unAmerican. Not just the willful disregard for America The Melting Pot, The Statue Of Liberty and all that. But our economy, watered down though it may be, is essentially founded on the principle that competition brings out best in people and that stifling competition brings out the worst. Immigration is good for the economy as a whole and competition is good for the high school dropouts. What's the problem?

Also last I checked dropping out of high school was a choice, with consequences. As the only high school graduate of four children in my family I have a real hard time feeling sorry for those who didn't give a fuck in school.

The idea that competition brings out the best in people is overrated. Sure it makes most people give their best effort. But it also breeds a cutthroat dog eat dog atmosphere. Why allow foreigners to compete for a slice of the American pie? They can do that in their own countries. America was founded by immigrants, blah, blah. True. But that's no longer very relevant in this day and age. We now have more than 300 million people. We don't need millions more people competing for the limited amount of resources and money available here. The economy is already stretched thin as it is. I wonder what China would think of your immigration stance.

Fuck China. Why do you hate AMERICA, dammit?

OTOH, suggesting we should take our immigration policy ideas from a communist nation of over a billion seems extremely relevant, so kudos for that.

If we want a billion new Americans in the near future we're following the correct path. Forget the paperwork. Forget the people who do it legally. Open border. Come one come all.

OZONE

Patriots

oregonblitzkrieg said:

and in time the barbarians overwhelmed it.
I'm not really eager to see them become the majority.

Who do you think was the majority before white people became the majority?

MikeDamone

oregonblitzkrieg said:

MikeDamone said:

oregonblitzkrieg said:

My viewpoint is that if the presence of new immigrants adversely affects the economic situation of any group of American citizens (I know, you think it's ok to overlook the high school dropouts), they should be prevented from coming here.

Are you saying that even though the overall economy and well being of the majority is increased, your basis for closing boarders is to protect high school drop outs? That's fine is you are, I just want to know if that's the foundation of your position.

Your utilitarian viewpoint that has some merit. But I don't agree that a vast horde of unskilled latinos will improve the well being of the overall economy and the majority. When Rome was at its height everyone wanted a piece of it. Their society gradually caved and caved to the point that eventually they even had emperors that were no longer Roman. It became too much of a melting pot and in time the barbarians overwhelmed it.

Even now Europe is undergoing a change. It's become infested with muslims/arabs. Walk around in Marseilles and you won't be able to tell if you're in France or Turkey. There are small towns in England that have been overrun. You really wonder if you're in England or Morocco. France experiences muslim/arab riots. Britain puts up with them calling for the destruction of their own nation.

Obviously latinos are a more peaceable people. I'm not racist. I have nothing against them. At the same time I'm not really eager to see them become the majority. I really doubt Europeans are eager to see arabs become the majority there either. Plenty of room in Mexico, Central America and South America for citizens in that area the world to live and flourish. They don't need to do it here. Also you will have to extend your logic to embrace hostile arabs/muslims that have no intention of assimilating as well, since your policy would be a completely open border.

Again with the red herring. Can you simply provide some facts and data rather than just disagreeing. The data is not on your side.

dnc

OZONE said:

oregonblitzkrieg said:

and in time the barbarians overwhelmed it.
I'm not really eager to see them become the majority.

Who do you think was the majority before white people became the majority?

forum.hardcorehusky.com/discussion/10848/iroquois-vs-canada-world-lax-semis-open-thread

PurpleJ

An anti-American leach on the taxpayer that needs to DIAF

OBK is still talking? When will he take the hint and LEAVE?!

oregonblitzkrieg

An anti-American leach on the taxpayer that needs to DIAF

PurpleJ said:

OBK is still talking? When will he take the hint and LEAVE?!

I like to piggy back ride on other posters instead of actually participating in discussions. I'm spineless like that.

PurpleJ

An anti-American leach on the taxpayer that needs to DIAF

oregonblitzkrieg said:

PurpleJ said:

OBK is still talking? When will he take the hint and LEAVE?!

I like to piggy back ride on other posters instead of actually participating in discussions. I'm spineless like that.

I already participated. It didn't go very well for you.

Fire_Marshall_Bill

dnc said:

oregonblitzkrieg said:

My viewpoint is that if the presence of new immigrants adversely affects the economic situation of any group of American citizens (I know, you think it's ok to overlook the high school dropouts), they should be prevented from coming here.

This is basically unAmerican. Not just the willful disregard for America The Melting Pot, The Statue Of Liberty and all that. But our economy, watered down though it may be, is essentially founded on the principle that competition brings out best in people and that stifling competition brings out the worst. Immigration is good for the economy as a whole and competition is good for the high school dropouts. What's the problem?

Also last I checked dropping out of high school was a choice, with consequences. As the only high school graduate of four children in my family I have a real hard time feeling sorry for those who didn't give a fuck in school.

It's not just high school dropouts that are competing. I don't know the exact numbers, but about 65% of the population didn't graduate from a four year university. Many of those people are competing with immigrants of different legalities. It doesn't take a PhD to figure out wages will level off for different industries when a flood of people who are willing to work for less compete for those jobs. This is especially true in a right to work state with weak unions. Personally I prefer having a strong middle class. I don't know about you.

it's worth noting that between World War II in the late 70's, the middle class was much stronger and immigration was not anything like it was between the early to mid 80's and 2008. There might just be a correlation...

For the record, I don't hate Hispanic people or anything like that. I might even know a few living in a city that's probably 45 Hispanic by now. The border situation as a joke though. Allowing millions of people to come through unchecked his totally unacceptable, and if nothing else think of national security concerns. You libertarians still care about that right?

oregonblitzkrieg

An anti-American leach on the taxpayer that needs to DIAF

PurpleJ said:

oregonblitzkrieg said:

PurpleJ said:

OBK is still talking? When will he take the hint and LEAVE?!

I like to piggy back ride on other posters instead of actually participating in discussions. I'm spineless like that.

I already participated. It didn't go very well for you.

I didn't feel a road bump while rolling through your vicinity.

oregonblitzkrieg

An anti-American leach on the taxpayer that needs to DIAF

Fire_Marshall_Bill said:

dnc said:

oregonblitzkrieg said:

My viewpoint is that if the presence of new immigrants adversely affects the economic situation of any group of American citizens (I know, you think it's ok to overlook the high school dropouts), they should be prevented from coming here.

This is basically unAmerican. Not just the willful disregard for America The Melting Pot, The Statue Of Liberty and all that. But our economy, watered down though it may be, is essentially founded on the principle that competition brings out best in people and that stifling competition brings out the worst. Immigration is good for the economy as a whole and competition is good for the high school dropouts. What's the problem?

Also last I checked dropping out of high school was a choice, with consequences. As the only high school graduate of four children in my family I have a real hard time feeling sorry for those who didn't give a fuck in school.

It's not just high school dropouts that are competing. I don't know the exact numbers, but about 65% of the population didn't graduate from a four year university. Many of those people are competing with immigrants of different legalities. It doesn't take a PhD to figure out wages will level off for different industries when a flood of people who are willing to work for less compete for those jobs. This is especially true in a right to work state with weak unions. Personally I prefer having a strong middle class. I don't know about you.

it's worth noting that between World War II in the late 70's, the middle class was much stronger and immigration was not anything like it was between the early to mid 80's and 2008. There might just be a correlation...

For the record, I don't hate Hispanic people or anything like that. I might even know a few living in a city that's probably 45 Hispanic by now. The border situation as a joke though. Allowing millions of people to come through unchecked his totally unacceptable, and if nothing else think of national security concerns. You libertarians still care about that right?

Exactly. This.

PurpleJ

An anti-American leach on the taxpayer that needs to DIAF

oregonblitzkrieg said:

PurpleJ said:

oregonblitzkrieg said:

PurpleJ said:

OBK is still talking? When will he take the hint and LEAVE?!

I like to piggy back ride on other posters instead of actually participating in discussions. I'm spineless like that.

I already participated. It didn't go very well for you.

I didn't feel a road bump while rolling through your vicinity.

You're so embarrassing. Not even worth my time.

oregonblitzkrieg

An anti-American leach on the taxpayer that needs to DIAF

MikeDamone said:

oregonblitzkrieg said:

dnc said:

oregonblitzkrieg said:

My viewpoint is that if the presence of new immigrants adversely affects the economic situation of any group of American citizens (I know, you think it's ok to overlook the high school dropouts), they should be prevented from coming here.

This is basically unAmerican. Not just the willful disregard for America The Melting Pot, The Statue Of Liberty and all that. But our economy, watered down though it may be, is essentially founded on the principle that competition brings out best in people and that stifling competition brings out the worst. Immigration is good for the economy as a whole and competition is good for the high school dropouts. What's the problem?

Also last I checked dropping out of high school was a choice, with consequences. As the only high school graduate of four children in my family I have a real hard time feeling sorry for those who didn't give a fuck in school.

The idea that competition brings out the best in people is overrated. Sure it makes most people give their best effort. But it also breeds a cutthroat dog eat dog atmosphere. Why allow foreigners to compete for a slice of the American pie? They can do that in their own countries. America was founded by immigrants, blah, blah. True. But that's no longer very relevant in this day and age. We now have more than 300 million people. We don't need millions more people competing for the limited amount of resources and money available here. The economy is already stretched thin as it is. I wonder what China would think of your immigration stance.

You really don't get it. This all goes back to our previous discussions regarding your lack of basic knowledge of economics. You have some core options that have no basis in any model of prosperity that has ever existed.

Just as a start, your first lesson needs to be that the economy isn't a fixed pie. I know we have been over this economic fallacy and I provided some links for you to educate yourself on the basics, but for some reason you either do your homework. Or maybe you have read them and disagree. If that is the case, I would like to hear your position in why you think the economy is a fixed pie..with citations of course, not just what you think or heard somewhere.

TIA

If you post the links again here that support your position on fixed pies, I'll do my "homework" and find out where you're coming from. Just so you know, I don't believe in fixed pies. They fluctuate and can get bigger or smaller. They're always changing. What doesn't change is the fact that each one is finite. If you're disputing the position that pies are finite, then I'll find facts to back it up. But it's not the first thing on my agenda. I have some weed to smoke and a walk to take.

MikeDamone

oregonblitzkrieg said:

MikeDamone said:

oregonblitzkrieg said:

dnc said:

oregonblitzkrieg said:

My viewpoint is that if the presence of new immigrants adversely affects the economic situation of any group of American citizens (I know, you think it's ok to overlook the high school dropouts), they should be prevented from coming here.

This is basically unAmerican. Not just the willful disregard for America The Melting Pot, The Statue Of Liberty and all that. But our economy, watered down though it may be, is essentially founded on the principle that competition brings out best in people and that stifling competition brings out the worst. Immigration is good for the economy as a whole and competition is good for the high school dropouts. What's the problem?

Also last I checked dropping out of high school was a choice, with consequences. As the only high school graduate of four children in my family I have a real hard time feeling sorry for those who didn't give a fuck in school.

The idea that competition brings out the best in people is overrated. Sure it makes most people give their best effort. But it also breeds a cutthroat dog eat dog atmosphere. Why allow foreigners to compete for a slice of the American pie? They can do that in their own countries. America was founded by immigrants, blah, blah. True. But that's no longer very relevant in this day and age. We now have more than 300 million people. We don't need millions more people competing for the limited amount of resources and money available here. The economy is already stretched thin as it is. I wonder what China would think of your immigration stance.

You really don't get it. This all goes back to our previous discussions regarding your lack of basic knowledge of economics. You have some core options that have no basis in any model of prosperity that has ever existed.

Just as a start, your first lesson needs to be that the economy isn't a fixed pie. I know we have been over this economic fallacy and I provided some links for you to educate yourself on the basics, but for some reason you either do your homework. Or maybe you have read them and disagree. If that is the case, I would like to hear your position in why you think the economy is a fixed pie..with citations of course, not just what you think or heard somewhere.

TIA

If you post the links again here that support your position on fixed pies, I'll do my "homework" and find out where you're coming from. Just so you know, I don't believe in fixed pies. They fluctuate and can get bigger or smaller. They're always changing. What doesn't change is the fact that each one is finite. If you're disputing the position that pies are finite, then I'll find facts to back it up. But it's not the first thing on my agenda. I have some weed to smoke and a walk to take.

If this makes sense to anyone, fill me in.

dnc

Fire_Marshall_Bill said:

dnc said:

oregonblitzkrieg said:

My viewpoint is that if the presence of new immigrants adversely affects the economic situation of any group of American citizens (I know, you think it's ok to overlook the high school dropouts), they should be prevented from coming here.

This is basically unAmerican. Not just the willful disregard for America The Melting Pot, The Statue Of Liberty and all that. But our economy, watered down though it may be, is essentially founded on the principle that competition brings out best in people and that stifling competition brings out the worst. Immigration is good for the economy as a whole and competition is good for the high school dropouts. What's the problem?

Also last I checked dropping out of high school was a choice, with consequences. As the only high school graduate of four children in my family I have a real hard time feeling sorry for those who didn't give a fuck in school.

It's not just high school dropouts that are competing. I don't know the exact numbers, but about 65% of the population didn't graduate from a four year university. Many of those people are competing with immigrants of different legalities. It doesn't take a PhD to figure out wages will level off for different industries when a flood of people who are willing to work for less compete for those jobs. This is especially true in a right to work state with weak unions. Personally I prefer having a strong middle class. I don't know about you.

it's worth noting that between World War II in the late 70's, the middle class was much stronger and immigration was not anything like it was between the early to mid 80's and 2008. There might just be a correlation...

For the record, I don't hate Hispanic people or anything like that. I might even know a few living in a city that's probably 45 Hispanic by now. The border situation as a joke though. Allowing millions of people to come through unchecked his totally unacceptable, and if nothing else think of national security concerns. You libertarians still care about that right?

Hi there.

I just like fucking with OBK.

hth

sarktastic

MikeDamone said:

oregonblitzkrieg said:

MikeDamone said:

oregonblitzkrieg said:

dnc said:

oregonblitzkrieg said:

My viewpoint is that if the presence of new immigrants adversely affects the economic situation of any group of American citizens (I know, you think it's ok to overlook the high school dropouts), they should be prevented from coming here.

This is basically unAmerican. Not just the willful disregard for America The Melting Pot, The Statue Of Liberty and all that. But our economy, watered down though it may be, is essentially founded on the principle that competition brings out best in people and that stifling competition brings out the worst. Immigration is good for the economy as a whole and competition is good for the high school dropouts. What's the problem?

Also last I checked dropping out of high school was a choice, with consequences. As the only high school graduate of four children in my family I have a real hard time feeling sorry for those who didn't give a fuck in school.

The idea that competition brings out the best in people is overrated. Sure it makes most people give their best effort. But it also breeds a cutthroat dog eat dog atmosphere. Why allow foreigners to compete for a slice of the American pie? They can do that in their own countries. America was founded by immigrants, blah, blah. True. But that's no longer very relevant in this day and age. We now have more than 300 million people. We don't need millions more people competing for the limited amount of resources and money available here. The economy is already stretched thin as it is. I wonder what China would think of your immigration stance.

You really don't get it. This all goes back to our previous discussions regarding your lack of basic knowledge of economics. You have some core options that have no basis in any model of prosperity that has ever existed.

Just as a start, your first lesson needs to be that the economy isn't a fixed pie. I know we have been over this economic fallacy and I provided some links for you to educate yourself on the basics, but for some reason you either do your homework. Or maybe you have read them and disagree. If that is the case, I would like to hear your position in why you think the economy is a fixed pie..with citations of course, not just what you think or heard somewhere.

TIA

If you post the links again here that support your position on fixed pies, I'll do my "homework" and find out where you're coming from. Just so you know, I don't believe in fixed pies. They fluctuate and can get bigger or smaller. They're always changing. What doesn't change is the fact that each one is finite. If you're disputing the position that pies are finite, then I'll find facts to back it up. But it's not the first thing on my agenda. I have some weed to smoke and a walk to take.

If this makes sense to anyone, fill me in.

He has weed to smoke... that wasn't clear?