If you don’t think AI will kill us all
Comments
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Rome was also complacent and didnt have better military tech than the competitioncreepycoug said:
Rome was always going to fall. If it wasn't that (and I'm not sure it was entirely or mostly that), it would have been something else. Rome was born of high stakes betrayal. Romulus killed Remus over an argument about where to begin the building of Rome. Even at its very beginning, one brother killed another to hold @Swaye over Rome. The city was constantly ebbing and flowing for the better and for the worse over political rivalry and skulduggery. Rome was doomed from the start. But what a fucking empire it was, eh?WestlinnDuck said:Rome had an idle population and how did that work out? At the end they didn't have the will to defend themselves. Sounds familiar. We will pay money we don't have to defend a border 4600 miles away, but won't even pretend to defend our own southern border. Then we are happy to provide bread and circuses to the invaders. Idle hands are the devil's workshop. If you won't work to earn a living but expect someone else to provide for you, you aren't living, you are just existing.
Legions were great. Then everyone else caught up.
Doesn't help when you have dozens of civil wars all the time, either.
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They are. It's inevitable. I just don't see how you put the genie back in the bottle. AI does, admittedly, have great potential for good and bad, but we've? struggled with progress since the dawn of time.RaceBannon said:
And how is America or any other empire that followed not doomed?creepycoug said:
Rome was always going to fall. If it wasn't that (and I'm not sure it was entirely or mostly that), it would have been something else. Rome was born of high stakes betrayal. Romulus killed Remus over an argument about where to begin the building of Rome. Even at its very beginning, one brother killed another to hold @Swaye over Rome. The city was constantly ebbing and flowing for the better and for the worse over political rivalry and skulduggery. Rome was doomed from the start. But what a fucking empire it was, eh?WestlinnDuck said:Rome had an idle population and how did that work out? At the end they didn't have the will to defend themselves. Sounds familiar. We will pay money we don't have to defend a border 4600 miles away, but won't even pretend to defend our own southern border. Then we are happy to provide bread and circuses to the invaders. Idle hands are the devil's workshop. If you won't work to earn a living but expect someone else to provide for you, you aren't living, you are just existing.
Repeating the same mistakes seems dumb but PGOS don't care bro
I'm not joking when I say that the thing you point out, which is valid and true, is a chunk of the Marx emphasis on capitalism just eating itself up. Sure, the existence of the Manifesto makes it seem as though he thought revolution and overthrow was the way to go. But his more in-depth works in Kapital and German Ideology make it pretty clear that he thought a good run through capitalism was a necessary predicate to making a real run at "true socialism", or whatever, and one of the reasons for that is he admired capitalism's inherent ability to raise the standard of living and deal with scarcity. He also thought, or dreamed when he was high maybe, that the technological advances that capitalism would give us would free us from scarcity and allow us to all self-actualize.
Where I'm sure you and he part company is on the idea that work and struggle give human beings purpose and thus it is the very struggle to work and create that makes us human. After all, we can't all sit around naval gazing and painting water lilies with all of our free time after being liberated from the fetters of labor. -
All empires are doomed. But they are doomed for a reason. “Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times.” When you won't defend yourself, but rely on other to defend you, then at some point there is going to be a fail. We are deep into the bread and circus phase with tens of millions bought off and unable to take care of themselves, let along family and country. A nation of dazzlers, mello and AOG can't stand.creepycoug said:
Rome was always going to fall. If it wasn't that (and I'm not sure it was entirely or mostly that), it would have been something else. Rome was born of high stakes betrayal. Romulus killed Remus over an argument about where to begin the building of Rome. Even at its very beginning, one brother killed another to hold @Swaye over Rome. The city was constantly ebbing and flowing for the better and for the worse over political rivalry and skulduggery. Rome was doomed from the start. But what a fucking empire it was, eh?WestlinnDuck said:Rome had an idle population and how did that work out? At the end they didn't have the will to defend themselves. Sounds familiar. We will pay money we don't have to defend a border 4600 miles away, but won't even pretend to defend our own southern border. Then we are happy to provide bread and circuses to the invaders. Idle hands are the devil's workshop. If you won't work to earn a living but expect someone else to provide for you, you aren't living, you are just existing.
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Sounds grim
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I like thiscreepycoug said:
They are. It's inevitable. I just don't see how you put the genie back in the bottle. AI does, admittedly, have great potential for good and bad, but we've? struggled with progress since the dawn of time.RaceBannon said:
And how is America or any other empire that followed not doomed?creepycoug said:
Rome was always going to fall. If it wasn't that (and I'm not sure it was entirely or mostly that), it would have been something else. Rome was born of high stakes betrayal. Romulus killed Remus over an argument about where to begin the building of Rome. Even at its very beginning, one brother killed another to hold @Swaye over Rome. The city was constantly ebbing and flowing for the better and for the worse over political rivalry and skulduggery. Rome was doomed from the start. But what a fucking empire it was, eh?WestlinnDuck said:Rome had an idle population and how did that work out? At the end they didn't have the will to defend themselves. Sounds familiar. We will pay money we don't have to defend a border 4600 miles away, but won't even pretend to defend our own southern border. Then we are happy to provide bread and circuses to the invaders. Idle hands are the devil's workshop. If you won't work to earn a living but expect someone else to provide for you, you aren't living, you are just existing.
Repeating the same mistakes seems dumb but PGOS don't care bro
I'm not joking when I say that the thing you point out, which is valid and true, is a chunk of the Marx emphasis on capitalism just eating itself up. Sure, the existence of the Manifesto makes it seem as though he thought revolution and overthrow was the way to go. But his more in-depth works in Kapital and German Ideology make it pretty clear that he thought a good run through capitalism was a necessary predicate to making a real run at "true socialism", or whatever, and one of the reasons for that is he admired capitalism's inherent ability to raise the standard of living and deal with scarcity. He also thought, or dreamed when he was high maybe, that the technological advances that capitalism would give us would free us from scarcity and allow us to all self-actualize.
Where I'm sure you and he part company is on the idea that work and struggle give human beings purpose and thus it is the very struggle to work and create that makes us human. After all, we can't all sit around naval gazing and painting water lilies with all of our free time after being liberated from the fetters of labor. -
Another description for having skin in the game. A majority of people need purpose and a sense of accomplishment. Socialists don't seem to learn that handouts don't work, whether it's housing, stimmy checks, loan forgiveness, etc.RaceBannon said:
I like thiscreepycoug said:
They are. It's inevitable. I just don't see how you put the genie back in the bottle. AI does, admittedly, have great potential for good and bad, but we've? struggled with progress since the dawn of time.RaceBannon said:
And how is America or any other empire that followed not doomed?creepycoug said:
Rome was always going to fall. If it wasn't that (and I'm not sure it was entirely or mostly that), it would have been something else. Rome was born of high stakes betrayal. Romulus killed Remus over an argument about where to begin the building of Rome. Even at its very beginning, one brother killed another to hold @Swaye over Rome. The city was constantly ebbing and flowing for the better and for the worse over political rivalry and skulduggery. Rome was doomed from the start. But what a fucking empire it was, eh?WestlinnDuck said:Rome had an idle population and how did that work out? At the end they didn't have the will to defend themselves. Sounds familiar. We will pay money we don't have to defend a border 4600 miles away, but won't even pretend to defend our own southern border. Then we are happy to provide bread and circuses to the invaders. Idle hands are the devil's workshop. If you won't work to earn a living but expect someone else to provide for you, you aren't living, you are just existing.
Repeating the same mistakes seems dumb but PGOS don't care bro
I'm not joking when I say that the thing you point out, which is valid and true, is a chunk of the Marx emphasis on capitalism just eating itself up. Sure, the existence of the Manifesto makes it seem as though he thought revolution and overthrow was the way to go. But his more in-depth works in Kapital and German Ideology make it pretty clear that he thought a good run through capitalism was a necessary predicate to making a real run at "true socialism", or whatever, and one of the reasons for that is he admired capitalism's inherent ability to raise the standard of living and deal with scarcity. He also thought, or dreamed when he was high maybe, that the technological advances that capitalism would give us would free us from scarcity and allow us to all self-actualize.
Where I'm sure you and he part company is on the idea that work and struggle give human beings purpose and thus it is the very struggle to work and create that makes us human. After all, we can't all sit around naval gazing and painting water lilies with all of our free time after being liberated from the fetters of labor.
Cue the 'but true socialism hasn't been tried yet' crowd -
That's basically my point. One argument for Rome's fall was it tried to be too much, and the expansion to the east killed "real Rome." Who the fuck really knows. When they were at their best, they were off conquering and building an economy that exploited the resources of the empire as far as it stretched. Rather than scorched earth, they converted the locals to the Roman way and convinced them of the bennies of being a Roman citizen, a status which they freely conferred to those whom they just bent over. This lead of course to a standard of living previously unimagined in the ancient world.WestlinnDuck said:
All empires are doomed. But they are doomed for a reason. “Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times.” When you won't defend yourself, but rely on other to defend you, then at some point there is going to be a fail. We are deep into the bread and circus phase with tens of millions bought off and unable to take care of themselves, let along family and country. A nation of dazzlers, mello and AOG can't stand.creepycoug said:
Rome was always going to fall. If it wasn't that (and I'm not sure it was entirely or mostly that), it would have been something else. Rome was born of high stakes betrayal. Romulus killed Remus over an argument about where to begin the building of Rome. Even at its very beginning, one brother killed another to hold @Swaye over Rome. The city was constantly ebbing and flowing for the better and for the worse over political rivalry and skulduggery. Rome was doomed from the start. But what a fucking empire it was, eh?WestlinnDuck said:Rome had an idle population and how did that work out? At the end they didn't have the will to defend themselves. Sounds familiar. We will pay money we don't have to defend a border 4600 miles away, but won't even pretend to defend our own southern border. Then we are happy to provide bread and circuses to the invaders. Idle hands are the devil's workshop. If you won't work to earn a living but expect someone else to provide for you, you aren't living, you are just existing.
I guess what I'm saying is that it's a parallel to us and our system of economy. Whether a public company reporting to Wall Street or a PE play answering to its limited partners, you are never done growing and expanding and creating value. You can't grow a company into profitability and say, "Ok, that's enough. It's sustainable. We're stopping here." America is great because of private property and the freedom to do well and the demand in our system that to succeed you have to create value. There is nothing in the soil, divine provenance is a stupid notion, and we don't have a better gene pool ... it's just those things. We adopted the British idea of capitalism, pumped it full of steroids consisting of the natural resources and undeveloped markets of the new world, and other shit I don't understand, and were lucky enough to devise a political system that helped all that along. Now we have yet another example of American ingenuity and value creation. The car displaced all the people connected with horses and carriages, the lamplighter lost his job with electricity, etc. etc.
When is too much too much? Nobody really knows. But human beings are never going to say no to anything that makes life easier. -
Im hearing America is like Rome and the machines are gonna kill us all. Bodies stacked like cordwood.RaceBannon said:
And how is America or any other empire that followed not doomed?creepycoug said:
Rome was always going to fall. If it wasn't that (and I'm not sure it was entirely or mostly that), it would have been something else. Rome was born of high stakes betrayal. Romulus killed Remus over an argument about where to begin the building of Rome. Even at its very beginning, one brother killed another to hold @Swaye over Rome. The city was constantly ebbing and flowing for the better and for the worse over political rivalry and skulduggery. Rome was doomed from the start. But what a fucking empire it was, eh?WestlinnDuck said:Rome had an idle population and how did that work out? At the end they didn't have the will to defend themselves. Sounds familiar. We will pay money we don't have to defend a border 4600 miles away, but won't even pretend to defend our own southern border. Then we are happy to provide bread and circuses to the invaders. Idle hands are the devil's workshop. If you won't work to earn a living but expect someone else to provide for you, you aren't living, you are just existing.
Repeating the same mistakes seems dumb but PGOS don't care bro
Maybe the machines will do us a solid and stack the bodies at Lumen Field
Robots 1, Covid 0 -
Channeling your inner mello isn't quite the statement you seem to think it is.PostGameOrangeSlices said:Sounds grim
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And try to expand the empire into the east as far as they did.PostGameOrangeSlices said:
Rome was also complacent and didnt have better military tech than the competitioncreepycoug said:
Rome was always going to fall. If it wasn't that (and I'm not sure it was entirely or mostly that), it would have been something else. Rome was born of high stakes betrayal. Romulus killed Remus over an argument about where to begin the building of Rome. Even at its very beginning, one brother killed another to hold @Swaye over Rome. The city was constantly ebbing and flowing for the better and for the worse over political rivalry and skulduggery. Rome was doomed from the start. But what a fucking empire it was, eh?WestlinnDuck said:Rome had an idle population and how did that work out? At the end they didn't have the will to defend themselves. Sounds familiar. We will pay money we don't have to defend a border 4600 miles away, but won't even pretend to defend our own southern border. Then we are happy to provide bread and circuses to the invaders. Idle hands are the devil's workshop. If you won't work to earn a living but expect someone else to provide for you, you aren't living, you are just existing.
Legions were great. Then everyone else caught up.
Doesn't help when you have dozens of civil wars all the time, either.
