Indiana's Done ...

Tequilla

Stick a fork in them ...

Major offseason changes ...

They could very easily go the route of the '02 Kings ... although I would expect that they will continue to build around Paul George.

dhdawg

they were done before the series started...

Tequilla

I think that entire roster is subject to turnover other than Paul George. David West might be the only other on the roster that you keep.

Frank Vogel FS gets fired within a week of the season being over.

[Deleted User]

Uhhhh we said they were done before this series started. As usual you are late to the ball game.

haie

Yeah Indiana in terms of scoring is not championship calibre and Paul George may be a very good player but you need Hibbert to be your best player and holy shit, not to go all Skip Bayless but he just looks mentally soft.

Tequilla

You don't need Hibbert to be your best player, but he can't disappear either.

They don't have a PG that can create shots for others and their best creator makes Russell Westbrook look like he's a voice of reason.

What's been exposed in this series is that 1) Indiana lacks the ability to effectively get themselves into advantageous positions offensively (interior scoring opportunities are there in this series w/ Miami going small) and 2) Frank Vogel is getting woefully outcoached in this series and is seemingly incapable of making adjustments. It was obvious by the 2nd quarter tonight that the best shot Indiana would have would be to go to a big combo of West/Scola and yet you didn't see that until the 4th quarter.

It will be very interesting to see what Larry Bird does this offseason. He's probably hurt the roster a bit in trying to give them little pieces to get them over the hump only to see Vogel fail to grow on the job and the team turn from a mentally tough group to a mentally fragile group seemingly overnight. It's a squad screaming of a break-up.

haie

Tequilla said:

You don't need Hibbert to be your best player, but he can't disappear either.

They don't have a PG that can create shots for others and their best creator makes Russell Westbrook look like he's a voice of reason.

What's been exposed in this series is that 1) Indiana lacks the ability to effectively get themselves into advantageous positions offensively (interior scoring opportunities are there in this series w/ Miami going small) and 2) Frank Vogel is getting woefully outcoached in this series and is seemingly incapable of making adjustments. It was obvious by the 2nd quarter tonight that the best shot Indiana would have would be to go to a big combo of West/Scola and yet you didn't see that until the 4th quarter.

It will be very interesting to see what Larry Bird does this offseason. He's probably hurt the roster a bit in trying to give them little pieces to get them over the hump only to see Vogel fail to grow on the job and the team turn from a mentally tough group to a mentally fragile group seemingly overnight. It's a squad screaming of a break-up.

Step 1 - Pass it in to Hibbert or West, preferably Hibbert
Step 2 - Hibbert doesn't suck cock and posts up on a smaller team.
Step 3 - Easy bucket.

When Hibbert wasn't a piece of shit last year the series was actually competitive. IMO you're not winning a championship if you're relying on George, but if Hibbert had improved from last year you might have something. I agree that they need someone to drive it more to create better offense though.

RoadDawg55

Hibbert just got his contract a year or two ago. I don't know how smart it would be to trade him. I doubt you get a sufficient return that would make it worth it.

They don't need to make big changes. Getting a PG who can create easy buckets would be huge for the Pacers. I think they should at least try to make a move for Rondo. They have Stevenson to dangle in a sign in trade to get the necessary assets. They need anther scorer off the bench too. They tried with Turner, but it didn't work out.

Tequilla

I was thinking of Rondo as well.

I agree that you would be selling low on Hibbert, but I think you have to move on from him at this point. The hope would be that you could potentially trade a bad contract for another bad contract where guys need a change in scenery.

They need more tempo and energy out of their team - it's very low right now.

They should be able to find some better pieces for the bench. Looking to Europe might also help.

Tequilla

haie said:

Tequilla said:

You don't need Hibbert to be your best player, but he can't disappear either.

They don't have a PG that can create shots for others and their best creator makes Russell Westbrook look like he's a voice of reason.

What's been exposed in this series is that 1) Indiana lacks the ability to effectively get themselves into advantageous positions offensively (interior scoring opportunities are there in this series w/ Miami going small) and 2) Frank Vogel is getting woefully outcoached in this series and is seemingly incapable of making adjustments. It was obvious by the 2nd quarter tonight that the best shot Indiana would have would be to go to a big combo of West/Scola and yet you didn't see that until the 4th quarter.

It will be very interesting to see what Larry Bird does this offseason. He's probably hurt the roster a bit in trying to give them little pieces to get them over the hump only to see Vogel fail to grow on the job and the team turn from a mentally tough group to a mentally fragile group seemingly overnight. It's a squad screaming of a break-up.

Step 1 - Pass it in to Hibbert or West, preferably Hibbert
Step 2 - Hibbert doesn't suck cock and posts up on a smaller team.
Step 3 - Easy bucket.

When Hibbert wasn't a piece of shit last year the series was actually competitive. IMO you're not winning a championship if you're relying on George, but if Hibbert had improved from last year you might have something. I agree that they need someone to drive it more to create better offense though.

George is still only 24 so I don't think you can write him off for what his ceiling is at this point. It is clear though that he's not in a position where he's going to outplay LBJ in a series. So he needs some help in other spots while trying to hold his own battle down to as close of a wash as possible.

Hibbert's gotten very disengaged and who knows why. He's got to figure out what he wants out of his career. He's got the ability but does he have the drive?

doogsinparadise

I'm going to guess that Lance StephensonFS regrets his trash talk after tonight. (GRAA, your welcome)

[Deleted User]

I don't know what Indiana can do? Teams like them don't win titles.

Only team to win a title without a super star in last 30 years is 2004 Pistons.

Paul George is an all-star, good young player but he's no super star.

Since 1980 this has and will always be a stars league. Before he died of AIDS race bannon said they had no shot in October.

Only APAG and yourself believed in them because you haven't learned the NBA script.

Tequilla

Right now George is a 3rd team all NBA kind of player. I think he can get up to a 2nd team all NBA player. I don't think he's a future 1st team player.

You CAN win without a 1st team player if you surround yourself with a great supporting cast. That was what Indiana tried to do here. That's blown up in smoke.

They haven't announced the 1st - 3rd teams this year, I'd be surprised if anybody from San Antonio makes it. If so, it will be Parker as a 3rd team member.

[Deleted User]

Tequilla said:

Right now George is a 3rd team all NBA kind of player. I think he can get up to a 2nd team all NBA player. I don't think he's a future 1st team player.

You CAN win without a 1st team player if you surround yourself with a great supporting cast. That was what Indiana tried to do here. That's blown up in smoke.

They haven't announced the 1st - 3rd teams this year, I'd be surprised if anybody from San Antonio makes it. If so, it will be Parker as a 3rd team member.

Do you realize since 1991 only THREE teams have ever won an NBA title without a first team player? THREE teams in 23 seasons.

The teams? 2011 Dallas which had Dirk a former MVP, 2004 Pistons, and 1995 Houston which had Olajuwon who was a top 5 player coming off an MVP year prior plus had Drexler.

So three times out of the last 23 champions is a nice 13%. Sure it CAN happen but it's very unlikely. Two of those teams also had a former MVP as well who was easily the best player in that particular postseason.

[Deleted User]

Tequilla said:

Right now George is a 3rd team all NBA kind of player. I think he can get up to a 2nd team all NBA player. I don't think he's a future 1st team player.

You CAN win without a 1st team player if you surround yourself with a great supporting cast. That was what Indiana tried to do here. That's blown up in smoke.

They haven't announced the 1st - 3rd teams this year, I'd be surprised if anybody from San Antonio makes it. If so, it will be Parker as a 3rd team member.

What about Duncan at center like last year? I think Duncan at center has a shot. Same with Parker as a guard. Paul, Durant, Lebron are the locks. Parker is battling Harden for two guard. I think Ducan wins center given Gasol was hurt a bulk of the year.

GulagDawg

dhdawg said:

they were done before the season series started...

dnc

He_Needs_More_Time said:

Tequilla said:

Right now George is a 3rd team all NBA kind of player. I think he can get up to a 2nd team all NBA player. I don't think he's a future 1st team player.

You CAN win without a 1st team player if you surround yourself with a great supporting cast. That was what Indiana tried to do here. That's blown up in smoke.

They haven't announced the 1st - 3rd teams this year, I'd be surprised if anybody from San Antonio makes it. If so, it will be Parker as a 3rd team member.

Do you realize since 1991 only THREE teams have ever won an NBA title without a first team player? THREE teams in 23 seasons.

The teams? 2011 Dallas which had Dirk a former MVP, 2004 Pistons, and 1995 Houston which had Olajuwon who was a top 5 player coming off an MVP year prior plus had Drexler.

So three times out of the last 23 champions is a nice 13%. Sure it CAN happen but it's very unlikely. Two of those teams also had a former MVP as well who was easily the best player in that particular postseason.

This is where I have to interject correlation does not equal causation. It's quite possible that championship caliber teams get their best player recognized on such teams rather than the other way around. I don't believe that All NBA always = best 5 players in the league. Subjective awards usually suck.

I do think you need a top 10 caliber player, at the very least, to win an NBA championship.

[Deleted User]

dnc said:

He_Needs_More_Time said:

Tequilla said:

Right now George is a 3rd team all NBA kind of player. I think he can get up to a 2nd team all NBA player. I don't think he's a future 1st team player.

You CAN win without a 1st team player if you surround yourself with a great supporting cast. That was what Indiana tried to do here. That's blown up in smoke.

They haven't announced the 1st - 3rd teams this year, I'd be surprised if anybody from San Antonio makes it. If so, it will be Parker as a 3rd team member.

Do you realize since 1991 only THREE teams have ever won an NBA title without a first team player? THREE teams in 23 seasons.

The teams? 2011 Dallas which had Dirk a former MVP, 2004 Pistons, and 1995 Houston which had Olajuwon who was a top 5 player coming off an MVP year prior plus had Drexler.

So three times out of the last 23 champions is a nice 13%. Sure it CAN happen but it's very unlikely. Two of those teams also had a former MVP as well who was easily the best player in that particular postseason.

This is where I have to interject correlation does not equal causation. It's quite possible that championship caliber teams get their best player recognized on such teams rather than the other way around. I don't believe that All NBA always = best 5 players in the league. Subjective awards usually suck.

I do think you need a top 10 caliber player, at the very least, to win an NBA championship.

Yes Lebron, Kobe, Garnett, Duncan, Shaq, Jordan were all products of being on recognized because they were on great teams.

Perhaps you should sit this discussion out........

RoadDawg55

George is still young. If he keeps developing, he can be a top 10 player. His offensive game should keep improving. He's a damn good player. It's pretty hard to make All NBA at forward with LeBron and Durant there.

dnc

He_Needs_More_Time said:

dnc said:

He_Needs_More_Time said:

Tequilla said:

Right now George is a 3rd team all NBA kind of player. I think he can get up to a 2nd team all NBA player. I don't think he's a future 1st team player.

You CAN win without a 1st team player if you surround yourself with a great supporting cast. That was what Indiana tried to do here. That's blown up in smoke.

They haven't announced the 1st - 3rd teams this year, I'd be surprised if anybody from San Antonio makes it. If so, it will be Parker as a 3rd team member.

Do you realize since 1991 only THREE teams have ever won an NBA title without a first team player? THREE teams in 23 seasons.

The teams? 2011 Dallas which had Dirk a former MVP, 2004 Pistons, and 1995 Houston which had Olajuwon who was a top 5 player coming off an MVP year prior plus had Drexler.

So three times out of the last 23 champions is a nice 13%. Sure it CAN happen but it's very unlikely. Two of those teams also had a former MVP as well who was easily the best player in that particular postseason.

This is where I have to interject correlation does not equal causation. It's quite possible that championship caliber teams get their best player recognized on such teams rather than the other way around. I don't believe that All NBA always = best 5 players in the league. Subjective awards usually suck.

I do think you need a top 10 caliber player, at the very least, to win an NBA championship.

Yes Lebron, Kobe, Garnett, Duncan, Shaq, Jordan were all products of being on recognized because they were on great teams.

Perhaps you should sit this discussion out........

Impressive list. For the most part those were all top 3 guys in the league which would make the argument stronger IMO.

The exception is Garnett. I don't think KG was a top 5 player in 2008. Boston won anyway, because they had 3 top 20 guys in Garnett, Pierce and Allen (and probably two top 10 guys in Garnett in Pierce).

[Deleted User]

dnc said:

He_Needs_More_Time said:

dnc said:

He_Needs_More_Time said:

Tequilla said:

Right now George is a 3rd team all NBA kind of player. I think he can get up to a 2nd team all NBA player. I don't think he's a future 1st team player.

You CAN win without a 1st team player if you surround yourself with a great supporting cast. That was what Indiana tried to do here. That's blown up in smoke.

They haven't announced the 1st - 3rd teams this year, I'd be surprised if anybody from San Antonio makes it. If so, it will be Parker as a 3rd team member.

Do you realize since 1991 only THREE teams have ever won an NBA title without a first team player? THREE teams in 23 seasons.

The teams? 2011 Dallas which had Dirk a former MVP, 2004 Pistons, and 1995 Houston which had Olajuwon who was a top 5 player coming off an MVP year prior plus had Drexler.

So three times out of the last 23 champions is a nice 13%. Sure it CAN happen but it's very unlikely. Two of those teams also had a former MVP as well who was easily the best player in that particular postseason.

This is where I have to interject correlation does not equal causation. It's quite possible that championship caliber teams get their best player recognized on such teams rather than the other way around. I don't believe that All NBA always = best 5 players in the league. Subjective awards usually suck.

I do think you need a top 10 caliber player, at the very least, to win an NBA championship.

Yes Lebron, Kobe, Garnett, Duncan, Shaq, Jordan were all products of being on recognized because they were on great teams.

Perhaps you should sit this discussion out........

Impressive list. For the most part those were all top 3 guys in the league which would make the argument stronger IMO.

The exception is Garnett. I don't think KG was a top 5 player in 2008. Boston won anyway, because they had 3 top 20 guys in Garnett, Pierce and Allen (and probably two top 10 guys in Garnett in Pierce).

KG was amazing that year defensively. He was considered a top 5 player in the NBA at that point as well. Also posted a 25 PER which was higher than Duncan and Dirk that year so his All-NBA was earned.

Also you picked out one questionable guy in the 20 teams who won a title with a first team all league. IMO he wasn't even questionable. I'm dying to hear of an example where an NBA champion got a bullshit first team all NBA player to complete my stat.

Not surprised you point out one tiny little difference and make a point. Stick to mocking Doogman and let those who actually know the NBA discuss it. This obviously isn't your wheelhouse.