Cavaliers and Celtics discussing a deal involving Kyrie Irving, Isaiah Thomas, Crowder and Ante Ziz

Apparently the deal is done

The Celtics and Cavs have reportedly engaged in "finalized" discussions regarding a trade that would send Kyrie Irving to Boston in a package that would include Isaiah Thomas and draft picks.

The teams are still fine tuning the deal, but initial reports indicate that Jae Crowder and Ante Zizic would also be included in the package that Boston would send to Cleveland in exchange for Irving. In terms of fantasy hoops, Thomas wouldn't be quite the same usage monster he was with the Celtics as a member of the Cavs, and Derrick Rose would somewhat complicate the equation, so he'd likely see a slight dip in value in Cleveland. Crowder might not even start with the Cavs, so his value would take a fairly large hit.

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RaceBannon

I have games 5,6,and 7 saved. They don't win without Irving. They weren't as far away this year as people think.

Cleveland found the one guy that's a worse defender and traded for him.

Boston traded a leader for a guy who apparently hates to win

I feel like I was the big loser in this trade

allpurpleallgold

So I was listening to an NBA podcast and had to turn it off because this doofus was talking about how Kyrie and the Brooklyn pick have the same value. Is that what you guys think? Do you know why you want high draft picks? It's so you can draft Kyrie fucking Irving. A pick where you have a chance at getting a Kyrie Irving is not worth the same as the actual player.

Boston skipped the risk that comes with the draft and skipped the 6 year development process and cashed in for a guy that's their now.

The Warriors are a great defensive team and they could not stop Kyrie. Is that draft pick going to be unstoppable against one of the best teams of all time? What are the chances of that? What are the chances you get a player that will be better than Kyrie? Well, let's take a look.

2016 NBA draft
1. Ben Simmons- incomplete we have no clue what he is.
2. Brandon Ingram- never going to be unstoppable against one the best teams of all time.
3. Jaylon Brown- nope.

2015
1. KAT- definitely could be, 4 picks in and this is the first guy we've seen play with a chance to be better than Kyrie.
2. De'Angelo Russell- gtfo
3. Jahlil Okafor- I said get the fuck out.

2014
1. Andrew Wiggins- nice player but no.
2. Jabari Parker- had a lot of injuries but no one is expecting him to be better than Kyrie at this point.
3. Joel Embiid- ok even with the injuries I wouldn't trade Embiid for Kyrie but he still will most likely never realize his potential. I'll give a win on this one though.

2013
1. Anthony Bennett
2. Victor Oladipo
3. Otto Porter
Lol

2012
1. Anthony Davis- ok he's better.
2. Michael Kidd-Gilchrist- fuck no
3. Bradley Beal- very good player but you're high if you're taking him over Kyrie.

Those are the 5 drafts since Kyrie was drafted. I'd take 3 guys right now over Kyrie out of 15. And I'm being nice and only counting top 3 picks which is not guaranteed from that pick.

They traded IT for a younger better version and avoided having to pay Thomas into his 30's and it cost them a draft pick which will most likely not be as good as Kyrie. Crowder is just a guy. This is dumb.

Sincerely,
Tequila
I don't think the pick is as valuable as Kyrie.

I don't think IT is as valuable as Kyrie.

I think IT plus the pick would have been a great haul for Kyrie if he still wanted to be in Cleveland. For a guy who doesn't want to be in Cleveland anymore it's an amazing haul. Getting them plus Crowder plus unknown big Euro dude is a ridiculous return for Cleveland.

And your analysis is pretty good but I'd take Wiggins over Kyrie. Very good offense plus great defense > Great offense and shit defense.

And Kyrie hasn't shown that level of unstoppability against anybody else and certainly hasn't shown it when he's not playing alongside LeBron. If I thought Kyrie was as good as he's looked against GS I'd agree with you on this deal. I don't.

We have very different evaluations on Irving if you think Wiggins is even close.

I've got Lebron, Steph, Draymond, Kawhi, Harden, Russ and Giannis as players better than Kyrie. That's it.

dnc

So I was listening to an NBA podcast and had to turn it off because this doofus was talking about how Kyrie and the Brooklyn pick have the same value. Is that what you guys think? Do you know why you want high draft picks? It's so you can draft Kyrie fucking Irving. A pick where you have a chance at getting a Kyrie Irving is not worth the same as the actual player.

Boston skipped the risk that comes with the draft and skipped the 6 year development process and cashed in for a guy that's their now.

The Warriors are a great defensive team and they could not stop Kyrie. Is that draft pick going to be unstoppable against one of the best teams of all time? What are the chances of that? What are the chances you get a player that will be better than Kyrie? Well, let's take a look.

2016 NBA draft
1. Ben Simmons- incomplete we have no clue what he is.
2. Brandon Ingram- never going to be unstoppable against one the best teams of all time.
3. Jaylon Brown- nope.

2015
1. KAT- definitely could be, 4 picks in and this is the first guy we've seen play with a chance to be better than Kyrie.
2. De'Angelo Russell- gtfo
3. Jahlil Okafor- I said get the fuck out.

2014
1. Andrew Wiggins- nice player but no.
2. Jabari Parker- had a lot of injuries but no one is expecting him to be better than Kyrie at this point.
3. Joel Embiid- ok even with the injuries I wouldn't trade Embiid for Kyrie but he still will most likely never realize his potential. I'll give a win on this one though.

2013
1. Anthony Bennett
2. Victor Oladipo
3. Otto Porter
Lol

2012
1. Anthony Davis- ok he's better.
2. Michael Kidd-Gilchrist- fuck no
3. Bradley Beal- very good player but you're high if you're taking him over Kyrie.

Those are the 5 drafts since Kyrie was drafted. I'd take 3 guys right now over Kyrie out of 15. And I'm being nice and only counting top 3 picks which is not guaranteed from that pick.

They traded IT for a younger better version and avoided having to pay Thomas into his 30's and it cost them a draft pick which will most likely not be as good as Kyrie. Crowder is just a guy. This is dumb.

Sincerely,
Tequila
I don't think the pick is as valuable as Kyrie.

I don't think IT is as valuable as Kyrie.

I think IT plus the pick would have been a great haul for Kyrie if he still wanted to be in Cleveland. For a guy who doesn't want to be in Cleveland anymore it's an amazing haul. Getting them plus Crowder plus unknown big Euro dude is a ridiculous return for Cleveland.

And your analysis is pretty good but I'd take Wiggins over Kyrie. Very good offense plus great defense > Great offense and shit defense.

And Kyrie hasn't shown that level of unstoppability against anybody else and certainly hasn't shown it when he's not playing alongside LeBron. If I thought Kyrie was as good as he's looked against GS I'd agree with you on this deal. I don't.
We have very different evaluations on Irving if you think Wiggins is even close.

I've got Lebron, Steph, Draymond, Kawhi, Harden, Russ and Giannis as players better than Kyrie. That's it.

Yeah I think that's insane.

But LOL at not including KD. Funny is good.

PurpleThrobber

Wiggins?!? Da Fuq?!?

Seriously?

dnc

Wiggins?!? Da Fuq?!?

Seriously?

Context of the conversation. APAG was listing players drafted in recent years who one could expect to be better than Irving. I'm not arguing Wiggins is better now, he's not. I do think Wiggins at 25 will be better than Kyrie at 25. But I'm biased towards defense so take that for what it's worth.

RoadDawg55

The biggest difference between Kyrie and IT, Lillard is LeBron. The Cavs sucked before LeBron and every time he's sat out.

I understand and agree with preferring Kyrie with the young core, but when IT is screaming and flexing on them (because LeBron) this year, it's going to be tough for a Celtics fan to swallow.

CuntWaffle

Dumb trade for Cleveland. Why would you make the only team who has a chance to be competitive with you in the East better?

Kaepsknee

Saw they're getting Brookly's =pick next year too. If so that's an insane for Cleveland.

Irving isn't worth all that.

And Cleveland will need it as Bron Bron bye bye after '18.

The Celts are goin all in and they should make the Finals, rather easily. No sure who the future flop number one that they would lose for next draft is but odds are, not a huge loss.

Kaepsknee

I have games 5,6,and 7 saved. They don't win without Irving. They weren't as far away this year as people think.

Cleveland found the one guy that's a worse defender and traded for him.

Boston traded a leader for a guy who apparently hates to win

I feel like I was the big loser in this trade

Agreed, Crowder was a huge leader in that locker room.

dnc

Saw they're getting Brookly's =pick next year too. If so that's an insane for Cleveland.

Irving isn't worth all that.
And Cleveland will need it as Bron Bron bye bye after '18.

The Celts are goin all in and they should make the Finals, rather easily. No sure who the future flop number one that they would lose for next draft is but odds are, not a huge loss.

The #1 pick next year is going to be the best top pick since Towns at least, Marvin Bagley III. And the #2 pick is going to be pretty damn good too, Seattle basketball community stupidity aside. Chances are this won't be a top 2 pick, but if it is it's a superstar.

RaceBannon

I have games 5,6,and 7 saved. They don't win without Irving. They weren't as far away this year as people think.

Cleveland found the one guy that's a worse defender and traded for him.

Boston traded a leader for a guy who apparently hates to win

I feel like I was the big loser in this trade
Agreed, Crowder was a huge leader in that locker room.

I see what you CPOTD did there

Kaepsknee

Saw they're getting Brookly's =pick next year too. If so that's an insane for Cleveland.

Irving isn't worth all that.
And Cleveland will need it as Bron Bron bye bye after '18.

The Celts are goin all in and they should make the Finals, rather easily. No sure who the future flop number one that they would lose for next draft is but odds are, not a huge loss.
The #1 pick next year is going to be the best top pick since Towns at least, Marvin Bagley III. And the #2 pick is going to be pretty damn good too, Seattle basketball community stupidity aside. Chances are this won't be a top 2 pick, but if it is it's a superstar.

So I can bump this in say, like 3 years???

allpurpleallgold

Saw they're getting Brookly's =pick next year too. If so that's an insane for Cleveland.

Irving isn't worth all that.
And Cleveland will need it as Bron Bron bye bye after '18.

The Celts are goin all in and they should make the Finals, rather easily. No sure who the future flop number one that they would lose for next draft is but odds are, not a huge loss.
The #1 pick next year is going to be the best top pick since Towns at least, Marvin Bagley III. And the #2 pick is going to be pretty damn good too, Seattle basketball community stupidity aside. Chances are this won't be a top 2 pick, but if it is it's a superstar.

There have been 2 drafts since Towns. "Since Towns" isn't saying much. I also remember when Harrison Barnes was the next Kobe Bryant so I'll wait to actually see them play before assuming anything.

dnc

Saw they're getting Brookly's =pick next year too. If so that's an insane for Cleveland.

Irving isn't worth all that.
And Cleveland will need it as Bron Bron bye bye after '18.

The Celts are goin all in and they should make the Finals, rather easily. No sure who the future flop number one that they would lose for next draft is but odds are, not a huge loss.
The #1 pick next year is going to be the best top pick since Towns at least, Marvin Bagley III. And the #2 pick is going to be pretty damn good too, Seattle basketball community stupidity aside. Chances are this won't be a top 2 pick, but if it is it's a superstar.
There have been 2 drafts since Towns. "Since Towns" isn't saying much. I also remember when Harrison Barnes was the next Kobe Bryant so I'll wait to actually see them play before assuming anything.

LOL poont on the Towns thing. Bagley's the best prospect at this point since probably Derek Rose and maybe since the Durant/Oden class. Now, Rose and Oden both blew out their knees and became worthless, Bagley could too. He's going to be damn good baring injury though.

Gladstone

can't wait for flat-earther kyrie's first interview with the boston fuckin globe

hopefully they ask him how eclipses work

Tequilla

So I was listening to an NBA podcast and had to turn it off because this doofus was talking about how Kyrie and the Brooklyn pick have the same value. Is that what you guys think? Do you know why you want high draft picks? It's so you can draft Kyrie fucking Irving. A pick where you have a chance at getting a Kyrie Irving is not worth the same as the actual player.

Boston skipped the risk that comes with the draft and skipped the 6 year development process and cashed in for a guy that's their now.

The Warriors are a great defensive team and they could not stop Kyrie. Is that draft pick going to be unstoppable against one of the best teams of all time? What are the chances of that? What are the chances you get a player that will be better than Kyrie? Well, let's take a look.

2016 NBA draft
1. Ben Simmons- incomplete we have no clue what he is.
2. Brandon Ingram- never going to be unstoppable against one the best teams of all time.
3. Jaylon Brown- nope.

2015
1. KAT- definitely could be, 4 picks in and this is the first guy we've seen play with a chance to be better than Kyrie.
2. De'Angelo Russell- gtfo
3. Jahlil Okafor- I said get the fuck out.

2014
1. Andrew Wiggins- nice player but no.
2. Jabari Parker- had a lot of injuries but no one is expecting him to be better than Kyrie at this point.
3. Joel Embiid- ok even with the injuries I wouldn't trade Embiid for Kyrie but he still will most likely never realize his potential. I'll give a win on this one though.

2013
1. Anthony Bennett
2. Victor Oladipo
3. Otto Porter
Lol

2012
1. Anthony Davis- ok he's better.
2. Michael Kidd-Gilchrist- fuck no
3. Bradley Beal- very good player but you're high if you're taking him over Kyrie.

Those are the 5 drafts since Kyrie was drafted. I'd take 3 guys right now over Kyrie out of 15. And I'm being nice and only counting top 3 picks which is not guaranteed from that pick.

They traded IT for a younger better version and avoided having to pay Thomas into his 30's and it cost them a draft pick which will most likely not be as good as Kyrie. Crowder is just a guy. This is dumb.

Sincerely,
Tequila

Couldn't say it any better

Kyrie's an elite offensive talent ... and Stevens is by far the best coach that he will have played for.

The Brooklyn pick is great but it's not guaranteed to be anything ... the pick they got back from Philly arguably is as valuable

And with Brown/Tatum they have young players that have the potential to keep the window open for a while

And as I took a ton of shit for ... paying IT a max contract if you are Boston was a non-starter if you want to be a title contender ... that max will be an albatross contract for a title contending kind of team

FreeChavez

Until anyone beats lebron in the east, all we're doing is pissing in the wind. KI hasn't done shit on his own and lebron isn't shaking in his boots about gordon fucking heyward. danny ainge is starting to get the billy beane edit where everything he's supposed to do is somehow going to work out and he's incredibly smart. Build, build, build, build vomit.

He let his best defender go, he let their leader go, let other roll players go all for gordon heyward and KI. I don't think they are outrageously worse, but I would't call them incredibly better either. KI seems like a bit of a pussy mentally and now will have the boston media in his jock strap. He also has to come out from behind King James massive shadow to take the heat when things don't work out. I haven't seen much recently that makes me think that he has the huevos to be that guy nightly.

At the end of the day, they both likely make the east coast finals and who in their right mind is betting against lebron, and on the celtics? Lebron will go play defense on KI and get angry while IT scores 45. Lots of hype, same old story for nba. Cavs warriors in June, warriors in 5.

allpurpleallgold

If Lebron guards Kyrie the same way he guarded Durant in the Finals then Kyrie will average 40 a game.

NeGgaPlEaSe

If Lebron guards Kyrie the same way he guarded Durant in the Finals then Kyrie will average 40 a game.

Especially if Kyrie grows another foot taller

RoadDawg55

Crowder is a bigger pick up than most of you think. The Cavs need 3 and D guys. Crowder is a needed tough guy.

IT's health is the wild card. If he's healthy, this year's Cavs team will be better.