Cavaliers and Celtics discussing a deal involving Kyrie Irving, Isaiah Thomas, Crowder and Ante Ziz
The Celtics and Cavs have reportedly engaged in "finalized" discussions regarding a trade that would send Kyrie Irving to Boston in a package that would include Isaiah Thomas and draft picks.
The teams are still fine tuning the deal, but initial reports indicate that Jae Crowder and Ante Zizic would also be included in the package that Boston would send to Cleveland in exchange for Irving. In terms of fantasy hoops, Thomas wouldn't be quite the same usage monster he was with the Celtics as a member of the Cavs, and Derrick Rose would somewhat complicate the equation, so he'd likely see a slight dip in value in Cleveland. Crowder might not even start with the Cavs, so his value would take a fairly large hit.
Comments
-
ha -
First game of the NBA season: Kyrie Irving and the Celtics at Cleveland. Oct. 17.
-
Saw they're getting Brookly's =pick next year too. If so that's an insane for Cleveland.
Irving isn't worth all that. -
Great deal for both sides
-
Warriors in 3.
-
If I was James I'd sit out the year to be fresh for the Lakers
I understand Cleveland needing to have something when he goes but that's a fucking stupid trade -
Cleveland got fleeced. Kyrie is the shit.RaceBannon said:If I was James I'd sit out the year to be fresh for the Lakers
I understand Cleveland needing to have something when he goes but that's a fucking stupid trade
-
You're a known Kyrie hater. And that Brooklyn pick, while still good, probably doesn't have top 3 value. They have actual players now and the east is so bad they could win 25 games and be the fifth worst team in conference.dnc said:Saw they're getting Brookly's =pick next year too. If so that's an insane for Cleveland.
Irving isn't worth all that. -
I hope u guys are being sarcastic.... No chance Boston beats them this year in playoffs. Also apparently they are trying to get DWade back with LeBron to entice him to stay. Crowder gives them someone to at least pester KD and let LeBron rest a lil on D.
-
I actually like the trade for both teams.
Clevelands only chance at winning the title was if the Warriors lose Draymond, Steph or Durant to injury. I think this team is still good enough to beat the Warriors with an injury. And if it doesn't work out and Lebron bolts they get a nice pick.
Boston gets one of the 5 best offensive players in the league, Kyrie finally gets a good coach and he doesn't have to carry the team which is what he hasn't proven he can do. -
Warriors in 5
-
Blazers in 6
-
Cavs fleeced them. Sets them up to contend one more year and the Brooklyn pick jump starts the rebuild when LeBron and Isaiah leave after this year.
-
Known Kyrie hater? I'm a Duke fan. I've won my fantasy hoops championship two of the last three years with a team named Uncle Drew. I like Kyrie. A lot. I'd consider myself a fan. He's got my favorite handles this side of When he hit that shot in Game 7 I was legitimately happy for him even though I was bummed for the Warriors.allpurpleallgold said:I actually like the trade for both teams.
Clevelands only chance at winning the title was if the Warriors lose Draymond, Steph or Durant to injury. I think this team is still good enough to beat the Warriors with an injury. And if it doesn't work out and Lebron bolts they get a nice pick.
Boston gets one of the 5 best offensive players in the league, Kyrie finally gets a good coach and he doesn't have to carry the team which is what he hasn't proven he can do.
I don't think he's without his warts though. He's a ball dominant PG who doesn't especially make his teammates better and thinks he's too good to play defense.
He could be a great player (definitely a higher upside than IT), I'm not sure he's willing to become one though. -
Duke/Warriors fan.dnc said:
Known Kyrie hater? I'm a Duke fan. I've won my fantasy hoops championship two of the last three years with a team named Uncle Drew. I like Kyrie. A lot. I'd consider myself a fan. He's got my favorite handles this side of When he hit that shot in Game 7 I was legitimately happy for him even though I was bummed for the Warriors.allpurpleallgold said:I actually like the trade for both teams.
Clevelands only chance at winning the title was if the Warriors lose Draymond, Steph or Durant to injury. I think this team is still good enough to beat the Warriors with an injury. And if it doesn't work out and Lebron bolts they get a nice pick.
Boston gets one of the 5 best offensive players in the league, Kyrie finally gets a good coach and he doesn't have to carry the team which is what he hasn't proven he can do.
I don't think he's without his warts though. He's a ball dominant PG who doesn't especially make his teammates better and thinks he's too good to play defense.
He could be a great player (definitely a higher upside than IT), I'm not sure he's willing to become one though. -
People forget how bad the Cavs have been anytime LeBron hasn't played.
Crowder will help a lot. The Cavs needed 3 and D swingmen to have a prayer against the Warriors.
Boston just turned over half their team this offseason. IT, Bradley, Crowder, and Olynyk.
The Cavs got way too much for Kyrie. And if it doesn't work, they will have a top 3 pick to start the rebuild.
Cavs won this trade rather easily. -
Kyrie is 25 and as 2 years left on his deal... will be playing in his prime during his next max contract. IT is 28 and has 1 year left... much greater risk that he'll fall off towards the back end of his next big contract.
So it's much smarter for the Celtics to invest in a future built around Kyrie, Hayward, and Tatum than it is to build with IT as part of that core. The Brooklyn pick could turn into an amazing player, but the Celtics still own 4 other team's 1st round picks between the 2018/19 drafts... it's not like they're giving up their entire future by trading that one (albeit good) pick.
From Cavs perspective... probably the best possible return they could get for Kyrie. With LeBron likely gone after next season, they get both good talent in return and a building block for life after LeBron. IT's offensive skillset is exactly the kind that complements LeBron well, and Crowder is an upgrade over a lot of the Cavs other role players like Shumpert. -
If Brooklyn wins 0 games next season it's still not guaranteed to be a top 3 pick. Then you look at Chicago, Indiana, Atlanta and Orlando who are all terrible teams with incentive to tank. That's not even counting the west where Phoenix and LA will lose a shit ton of games. That pick could end up 6th or 7th very easily and that's a huge drop off.RoadDawg55 said:People forget how bad the Cavs have been anytime LeBron hasn't played.
Crowder will help a lot. The Cavs needed 3 and D swingmen to have a prayer against the Warriors.
Boston just turned over half their team this offseason. IT, Bradley, Crowder, and Olynyk.
The Cavs got way too much for Kyrie. And if it doesn't work, they will have a top 3 pick to start the rebuild.
Cavs won this trade rather easily. -
So I was listening to an NBA podcast and had to turn it off because this doofus was talking about how Kyrie and the Brooklyn pick have the same value. Is that what you guys think? Do you know why you want high draft picks? It's so you can draft Kyrie fucking Irving. A pick where you have a chance at getting a Kyrie Irving is not worth the same as the actual player.
Boston skipped the risk that comes with the draft and skipped the 6 year development process and cashed in for a guy that's their now.
The Warriors are a great defensive team and they could not stop Kyrie. Is that draft pick going to be unstoppable against one of the best teams of all time? What are the chances of that? What are the chances you get a player that will be better than Kyrie? Well, let's take a look.
2016 NBA draft
1. Ben Simmons- incomplete we have no clue what he is.
2. Brandon Ingram- never going to be unstoppable against one the best teams of all time.
3. Jaylon Brown- nope.
2015
1. KAT- definitely could be, 4 picks in and this is the first guy we've seen play with a chance to be better than Kyrie.
2. De'Angelo Russell- gtfo
3. Jahlil Okafor- I said get the fuck out.
2014
1. Andrew Wiggins- nice player but no.
2. Jabari Parker- had a lot of injuries but no one is expecting him to be better than Kyrie at this point.
3. Joel Embiid- ok even with the injuries I wouldn't trade Embiid for Kyrie but he still will most likely never realize his potential. I'll give a win on this one though.
2013
1. Anthony Bennett
2. Victor Oladipo
3. Otto Porter
Lol
2012
1. Anthony Davis- ok he's better.
2. Michael Kidd-Gilchrist- fuck no
3. Bradley Beal- very good player but you're high if you're taking him over Kyrie.
Those are the 5 drafts since Kyrie was drafted. I'd take 3 guys right now over Kyrie out of 15. And I'm being nice and only counting top 3 picks which is not guaranteed from that pick.
They traded IT for a younger better version and avoided having to pay Thomas into his 30's and it cost them a draft pick which will most likely not be as good as Kyrie. Crowder is just a guy. This is dumb.
Sincerely,
Tequila -
Flagged for playing fantasy hoops.dnc said:
Known Kyrie hater? I'm a Duke fan. I've won my fantasy hoops championship two of the last three years with a team named Uncle Drew. I like Kyrie. A lot. I'd consider myself a fan. He's got my favorite handles this side of When he hit that shot in Game 7 I was legitimately happy for him even though I was bummed for the Warriors.allpurpleallgold said:I actually like the trade for both teams.
Clevelands only chance at winning the title was if the Warriors lose Draymond, Steph or Durant to injury. I think this team is still good enough to beat the Warriors with an injury. And if it doesn't work out and Lebron bolts they get a nice pick.
Boston gets one of the 5 best offensive players in the league, Kyrie finally gets a good coach and he doesn't have to carry the team which is what he hasn't proven he can do.
I don't think he's without his warts though. He's a ball dominant PG who doesn't especially make his teammates better and thinks he's too good to play defense.
He could be a great player (definitely a higher upside than IT), I'm not sure he's willing to become one though. -
I don't think the pick is as valuable as Kyrie.allpurpleallgold said:So I was listening to an NBA podcast and had to turn it off because this doofus was talking about how Kyrie and the Brooklyn pick have the same value. Is that what you guys think? Do you know why you want high draft picks? It's so you can draft Kyrie fucking Irving. A pick where you have a chance at getting a Kyrie Irving is not worth the same as the actual player.
Boston skipped the risk that comes with the draft and skipped the 6 year development process and cashed in for a guy that's their now.
The Warriors are a great defensive team and they could not stop Kyrie. Is that draft pick going to be unstoppable against one of the best teams of all time? What are the chances of that? What are the chances you get a player that will be better than Kyrie? Well, let's take a look.
2016 NBA draft
1. Ben Simmons- incomplete we have no clue what he is.
2. Brandon Ingram- never going to be unstoppable against one the best teams of all time.
3. Jaylon Brown- nope.
2015
1. KAT- definitely could be, 4 picks in and this is the first guy we've seen play with a chance to be better than Kyrie.
2. De'Angelo Russell- gtfo
3. Jahlil Okafor- I said get the fuck out.
2014
1. Andrew Wiggins- nice player but no.
2. Jabari Parker- had a lot of injuries but no one is expecting him to be better than Kyrie at this point.
3. Joel Embiid- ok even with the injuries I wouldn't trade Embiid for Kyrie but he still will most likely never realize his potential. I'll give a win on this one though.
2013
1. Anthony Bennett
2. Victor Oladipo
3. Otto Porter
Lol
2012
1. Anthony Davis- ok he's better.
2. Michael Kidd-Gilchrist- fuck no
3. Bradley Beal- very good player but you're high if you're taking him over Kyrie.
Those are the 5 drafts since Kyrie was drafted. I'd take 3 guys right now over Kyrie out of 15. And I'm being nice and only counting top 3 picks which is not guaranteed from that pick.
They traded IT for a younger better version and avoided having to pay Thomas into his 30's and it cost them a draft pick which will most likely not be as good as Kyrie. Crowder is just a guy. This is dumb.
Sincerely,
Tequila
I don't think IT is as valuable as Kyrie.
I think IT plus the pick would have been a great haul for Kyrie if he still wanted to be in Cleveland. For a guy who doesn't want to be in Cleveland anymore it's an amazing haul. Getting them plus Crowder plus unknown big Euro dude is a ridiculous return for Cleveland.
And your analysis is pretty good but I'd take Wiggins over Kyrie. Very good offense plus great defense > Great offense and shit defense.
And Kyrie hasn't shown that level of unstoppability against anybody else and certainly hasn't shown it when he's not playing alongside LeBron. If I thought Kyrie was as good as he's looked against GS I'd agree with you on this deal. I don't. -
I have games 5,6,and 7 saved. They don't win without Irving. They weren't as far away this year as people think.
Cleveland found the one guy that's a worse defender and traded for him.
Boston traded a leader for a guy who apparently hates to win
I feel like I was the big loser in this trade -
We have very different evaluations on Irving if you think Wiggins is even close.dnc said:
I don't think the pick is as valuable as Kyrie.allpurpleallgold said:So I was listening to an NBA podcast and had to turn it off because this doofus was talking about how Kyrie and the Brooklyn pick have the same value. Is that what you guys think? Do you know why you want high draft picks? It's so you can draft Kyrie fucking Irving. A pick where you have a chance at getting a Kyrie Irving is not worth the same as the actual player.
Boston skipped the risk that comes with the draft and skipped the 6 year development process and cashed in for a guy that's their now.
The Warriors are a great defensive team and they could not stop Kyrie. Is that draft pick going to be unstoppable against one of the best teams of all time? What are the chances of that? What are the chances you get a player that will be better than Kyrie? Well, let's take a look.
2016 NBA draft
1. Ben Simmons- incomplete we have no clue what he is.
2. Brandon Ingram- never going to be unstoppable against one the best teams of all time.
3. Jaylon Brown- nope.
2015
1. KAT- definitely could be, 4 picks in and this is the first guy we've seen play with a chance to be better than Kyrie.
2. De'Angelo Russell- gtfo
3. Jahlil Okafor- I said get the fuck out.
2014
1. Andrew Wiggins- nice player but no.
2. Jabari Parker- had a lot of injuries but no one is expecting him to be better than Kyrie at this point.
3. Joel Embiid- ok even with the injuries I wouldn't trade Embiid for Kyrie but he still will most likely never realize his potential. I'll give a win on this one though.
2013
1. Anthony Bennett
2. Victor Oladipo
3. Otto Porter
Lol
2012
1. Anthony Davis- ok he's better.
2. Michael Kidd-Gilchrist- fuck no
3. Bradley Beal- very good player but you're high if you're taking him over Kyrie.
Those are the 5 drafts since Kyrie was drafted. I'd take 3 guys right now over Kyrie out of 15. And I'm being nice and only counting top 3 picks which is not guaranteed from that pick.
They traded IT for a younger better version and avoided having to pay Thomas into his 30's and it cost them a draft pick which will most likely not be as good as Kyrie. Crowder is just a guy. This is dumb.
Sincerely,
Tequila
I don't think IT is as valuable as Kyrie.
I think IT plus the pick would have been a great haul for Kyrie if he still wanted to be in Cleveland. For a guy who doesn't want to be in Cleveland anymore it's an amazing haul. Getting them plus Crowder plus unknown big Euro dude is a ridiculous return for Cleveland.
And your analysis is pretty good but I'd take Wiggins over Kyrie. Very good offense plus great defense > Great offense and shit defense.
And Kyrie hasn't shown that level of unstoppability against anybody else and certainly hasn't shown it when he's not playing alongside LeBron. If I thought Kyrie was as good as he's looked against GS I'd agree with you on this deal. I don't.
I've got Lebron, Steph, Draymond, Kawhi, Harden, Russ and Giannis as players better than Kyrie. That's it. -
Yeah I think that's insane.allpurpleallgold said:
We have very different evaluations on Irving if you think Wiggins is even close.dnc said:
I don't think the pick is as valuable as Kyrie.allpurpleallgold said:So I was listening to an NBA podcast and had to turn it off because this doofus was talking about how Kyrie and the Brooklyn pick have the same value. Is that what you guys think? Do you know why you want high draft picks? It's so you can draft Kyrie fucking Irving. A pick where you have a chance at getting a Kyrie Irving is not worth the same as the actual player.
Boston skipped the risk that comes with the draft and skipped the 6 year development process and cashed in for a guy that's their now.
The Warriors are a great defensive team and they could not stop Kyrie. Is that draft pick going to be unstoppable against one of the best teams of all time? What are the chances of that? What are the chances you get a player that will be better than Kyrie? Well, let's take a look.
2016 NBA draft
1. Ben Simmons- incomplete we have no clue what he is.
2. Brandon Ingram- never going to be unstoppable against one the best teams of all time.
3. Jaylon Brown- nope.
2015
1. KAT- definitely could be, 4 picks in and this is the first guy we've seen play with a chance to be better than Kyrie.
2. De'Angelo Russell- gtfo
3. Jahlil Okafor- I said get the fuck out.
2014
1. Andrew Wiggins- nice player but no.
2. Jabari Parker- had a lot of injuries but no one is expecting him to be better than Kyrie at this point.
3. Joel Embiid- ok even with the injuries I wouldn't trade Embiid for Kyrie but he still will most likely never realize his potential. I'll give a win on this one though.
2013
1. Anthony Bennett
2. Victor Oladipo
3. Otto Porter
Lol
2012
1. Anthony Davis- ok he's better.
2. Michael Kidd-Gilchrist- fuck no
3. Bradley Beal- very good player but you're high if you're taking him over Kyrie.
Those are the 5 drafts since Kyrie was drafted. I'd take 3 guys right now over Kyrie out of 15. And I'm being nice and only counting top 3 picks which is not guaranteed from that pick.
They traded IT for a younger better version and avoided having to pay Thomas into his 30's and it cost them a draft pick which will most likely not be as good as Kyrie. Crowder is just a guy. This is dumb.
Sincerely,
Tequila
I don't think IT is as valuable as Kyrie.
I think IT plus the pick would have been a great haul for Kyrie if he still wanted to be in Cleveland. For a guy who doesn't want to be in Cleveland anymore it's an amazing haul. Getting them plus Crowder plus unknown big Euro dude is a ridiculous return for Cleveland.
And your analysis is pretty good but I'd take Wiggins over Kyrie. Very good offense plus great defense > Great offense and shit defense.
And Kyrie hasn't shown that level of unstoppability against anybody else and certainly hasn't shown it when he's not playing alongside LeBron. If I thought Kyrie was as good as he's looked against GS I'd agree with you on this deal. I don't.
I've got Lebron, Steph, Draymond, Kawhi, Harden, Russ and Giannis as players better than Kyrie. That's it.
But LOL at not including KD. Funny is good. -
Wiggins?!? Da Fuq?!?
Seriously?
-
Context of the conversation. APAG was listing players drafted in recent years who one could expect to be better than Irving. I'm not arguing Wiggins is better now, he's not. I do think Wiggins at 25 will be better than Kyrie at 25. But I'm biased towards defense so take that for what it's worth.PurpleThrobber said:Wiggins?!? Da Fuq?!?
Seriously? -
The biggest difference between Kyrie and IT, Lillard is LeBron. The Cavs sucked before LeBron and every time he's sat out.
I understand and agree with preferring Kyrie with the young core, but when IT is screaming and flexing on them (because LeBron) this year, it's going to be tough for a Celtics fan to swallow. -
Dumb trade for Cleveland. Why would you make the only team who has a chance to be competitive with you in the East better?
-
And Cleveland will need it as Bron Bron bye bye after '18.dnc said:Saw they're getting Brookly's =pick next year too. If so that's an insane for Cleveland.
Irving isn't worth all that.
The Celts are goin all in and they should make the Finals, rather easily. No sure who the future flop number one that they would lose for next draft is but odds are, not a huge loss. -
Agreed, Crowder was a huge leader in that locker room.RaceBannon said:I have games 5,6,and 7 saved. They don't win without Irving. They weren't as far away this year as people think.
Cleveland found the one guy that's a worse defender and traded for him.
Boston traded a leader for a guy who apparently hates to win
I feel like I was the big loser in this trade -
The #1 pick next year is going to be the best top pick since Towns at least, Marvin Bagley III. And the #2 pick is going to be pretty damn good too, Seattle basketball community stupidity aside. Chances are this won't be a top 2 pick, but if it is it's a superstar.salemcoog said:
And Cleveland will need it as Bron Bron bye bye after '18.dnc said:Saw they're getting Brookly's =pick next year too. If so that's an insane for Cleveland.
Irving isn't worth all that.
The Celts are goin all in and they should make the Finals, rather easily. No sure who the future flop number one that they would lose for next draft is but odds are, not a huge loss.
