Let me ask a question...
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We do a really piss poor job of understanding and teaching context anymore. It's all facts, dates, and the politically correct conclusion for any given event. Bad people sometimes do amazingly good things, and good people sometimes do amazing bad things. And it looks a hell of a lot different 20, 50 or 100 years after the period when it was "normal" for the times. We don't ask "why or how did something like human bondage become normal in the idealistic New World?" Instead we condemn all those involved, naively concluding we would have done things completely differently had it been "us" back then versus "them." This oversight has plagued human history since the beginning of time and unfortunately, sanitizing or ignoring history dooms us to misunderstanding, and frequently repeating it. And we are repeating the fuck out of things today with Identity Politics and Group Think that we experienced almost a century ago and should all be the wiser for, but aren't.
Chew on that Boobs! -
I'm glad I started this thread. I have no answers. Just wondering what others think. This shit is complicated. I should probably just stay drunk. All this thinking hurts.
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Yes.Swaye said:I should probably just stay drunk. All this thinking hurts.
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When we have something important to actually fight against
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I actually agree with this.TurdBuffer said:We do a really piss poor job of understanding and teaching context anymore. It's all facts, dates, and the politically correct conclusion for any given event. Bad people sometimes do amazingly good things, and good people sometimes do amazing bad things. And it looks a hell of a lot different 20, 50 or 100 years after the period when it was "normal" for the times. We don't ask "why or how did something like human bondage become normal in the idealistic New World?" Instead we condemn all those involved, naively concluding we would have done things completely differently had it been "us" back then versus "them." This oversight has plagued human history since the beginning of time and unfortunately, sanitizing or ignoring history dooms us to misunderstanding, and frequently repeating it. And we are repeating the fuck out of things today with Identity Politics and Group Think that we experienced almost a century ago and should all be the wiser for, but aren't.
Chew on that Boobs!
On the other hand, it's fucked up to try to recreate the failed legacies of 150 years ago. -
Good answer. The "beaten those that harmed you" is a great point. When whites are enslaved by blacks, I am moving onto the res.Doog_de_Jour said:An excellent question sir. History seems divided on the subject as some groups bounce back pretty quickly while others keep holding onto the pain for a.very.long.time. - even when they forget what brought about their feelings in the first place.
Without debating if these feelings are justified, the common thread I see between groups that don't recover as quickly is they make their suffering part of (if not their entire) identity. Let's face it, that can happen pretty easily if you continue to experience prejudice and/or have people saying, "well, you aren't making it because of THIS" to you constantly.
And not unlike @BearsWiin 's UW-Oregon example, in some cases it doesn't go away until you've beaten those that previously oppressed you.
So unfortunately I don't have a time-based answer. I guess it just depends. -
It would depend on the reproduction ratio of educated vs. dumb people.
For instance a smart person will tell their kids that this is America and you make it on your work ethic.
A dumb person tells their kids they struggle to make it because they are paying for all of those worthless naggers to lay around all day and the Messicans are taking all the jobs.
People are taught both hate and acceptance. The more smart people there are the quicker the population moves on from bad things and vice versa.
There are a metric fuckton of dumb people in this country and they fuck like rabbits. So, to answer your question this race thing will end once everyone is brown in 200 years. -
Individuals from every race and background have persevered and succeeded throughout some of the most harrowing personal backgrounds and experiences.
Some, in every race and background, have chosen to be mired victimhood and seek no escape. -
The Idiocracy thesis. I can get behind that. I love that movie.Mosster47 said:It would depend on the reproduction ratio of educated vs. dumb people.
For instance a smart person will tell their kids that this is America and you make it on your work ethic.
A dumb person tells their kids they struggle to make it because they are paying for all of those worthless naggers to lay around all day and the Messicans are taking all the jobs.
People are taught both hate and acceptance. The more smart people there are the quicker the population moves on from bad things and vice versa.
There are a metric fuckton of dumb people in this country and they fuck like rabbits. So, to answer your question this race thing will end once everyone is brown in 200 years.
fortunately for us, the data doesn't actually bear that out.
What the data shows is that intelligence (as reflected in IQ scores) has increased dramatically over the past 75 years, but that gains on an generation-over-generation basis have slowed down, but are still occurring. A person scoring 100 (average intelligence) on an IQ test in 1932 would score 80 (deficient intelligence) today. But underdeveloped countries are closing the gap with developed countries, and relationships have been linked to increases in nutrition and education. -
When I approach this debate, I tend to start from Jared Diamond “Guns, Germs, and Steel” sort of perspective, which is to say that history has favored some tribes and dealt a shitty hand to others. And that most of this was due to random accidents of history, geography, etc.- e.g., the Land of China, Europe, Fertile Crescent, etc., were all more suitable to civilization building than say Sub Saharan Africa or the Americas (pre Columbus). Hell, it’s relatively recent construct in human history that it is immoral for one tribe to fuck over another and take their land. I’m not saying we? should all have “white privilege” guilt or what have you so don’t twist, but we do have to acknowledge that fact the black tribes along the West Coast of Africa got fucked pretty bad by history in the past 500 years or so and we’re still living with the repercussions to this day.
In my view, the time to start rectifying the wrongs of history done to black Americans was in 1865, but this never really happened (politically it was probably impossible given the attitudes at the time). Slavery ended but was followed by another 100 years of 2nd class citizenship. On this subject: I think Daniel Patrick Monynihan’s controversial paper from 1965 “The Negro Family: The Case For National Action” is still relevant to this day, some 50 plus years after it was released. Here’s a link if you haven’t read it before and it’s annotated for this of you that struggle with TL;DR: https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/09/the-moynihan-report-an-annotated-edition/404632/#Chapter III .
Consider that by the time that we? as a country started trying to undo the injustices of the previous 300 years or so with the Civil Rights Legislation of the mid 1960’s the breakdown of family structure in black America had already reached a critical juncture. The out of wedlock birth rate in 1965 amongst African Americans in 1965 was 26% (for Whites it was 3% in that year); today the number is 73% and for non-Hispanic Whites it’s grown to 29%. Keep in mind that there isn’t an example in human history of a culture suffering this level of breakdown in family structures and still having good results.
As it relates to Swaye’s OP, I don’t know the answer other than to say we as a country didn’t rectify wrongs of the past soon enough. And Race Bannon is right that a lot of that is on the Democratic Party of 1865 to 1965, and it can certainly be argued that Great Society Programs starting in the 1960’s haven’t yielded the hoped for results. What is clear it that a different approach is needed and I don’t think it’s just throwing money around- e.g., reparations.
