Next Don James
Comments
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Was James a seemingly middling coach? I honestly don't know. I'm looking at Wulff as the polar opposite. I throw out that's not all science in doing this but I don't fucking Poolboy to make the right decision and want to limit his potential to fuck this up.ApostleofGrief said:
re: #3. How do you explain that you could turn an ordinary seeming Kent State coach into the most successful Husky coach in modern history? It's pretty much given here that Sark will be gone soon enough. Fine. His next job will be as an OC somewhere. Maybe even UW. There are two routes that can be taken for hiring the next coach: Marinerization OR Risk. With marinerization, the goal is to find somebody that will win enough games to keep fans interested, and will guarantee that, but there is no real attempt at creating a contender. Risk you find the next seemingly middling coach at somewhere like Kent State and roll the dice.CFetters_Nacho_Lover said:A couple points in this argument.
#1 I wouldn't refer to guys like Saban, Holtz and Spurrier as failed NFL coaches who were then successful in college. Those guys were successful in college, tried and failed (to varying degrees) in the NFL and then went back to college. Besides, Mora and Carroll, what other coaches went from middling success in the NFL to the heights that Carroll reached and Mora is on pace for? Al Groh and Dave Wandestadt come to mind as mediocre pro coaches who then sucked as a college coaches.
#2. Offensive vs. Defensive coaches. Give me a fucking head coach. Don James was a college QB. Harbaugh was a college and pro QB. Both were football coaches. The problem with Sark isn't just that's he's an offensive coach but that he doesn't know enough or care enough about the other phases.
#3. If you're going to hire a lower-level coach, make sure it's a guy who is crushing the competition at his current level. The couple guys linked on the first page meet that criteria. Sounds like the guy at NDSU does as well. Don't go out and get a WULFF who I seem to remember wasn't exactly dominating the competition at EWU - he seemed to be a decent coach at that level but didn't have a 74-7 record either.
#4. If you're getting a guy with head coaching experience at a large school, don't pull another UW and hire guys who've already proven themselves to be incompetent like Gibly and Ty.
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1971 Kent State 3–8 0–5 6th
1972 Kent State 6–5–1 4–1 1st L Tangerine
1973 Kent State 9–2 4–1 2nd
1974 Kent State 7–4 2–3 T–4th
Kent State: 25–19–1 10–10
His record was middling but he was on the way up as you can see there was significant improvement from his last two years vs his first two years.
While Paul Wulff here was his record at Eastern.
2000 Eastern Washington 6–5 5–2 5th
2001 Eastern Washington 7–4 3–4 5th
2002 Eastern Washington 6–5 3–4 4th
2003 Eastern Washington 6–5 3–4 6th
2004 Eastern Washington 9–4 6–1 T–1st L Div. I-AA Quarterfinals
2005 Eastern Washington 7–5 5–2 T–1st L Div. I-AA 1st round
2006 Eastern Washington 3–8 2–5 T–6th
2007 Eastern Washington 9–4 5–2 2nd L Div. I FCS Quarterfinals
Eastern Washington: 53–40 32–24
He was there for a while and was pretty average including going 3-8 in his 7th season. I'd say the situations were different. -
Kent State went to their second bowl game ever last year. James had the first
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Tressel had 14 years at Youngstown St, I wouldn't be looking at any existing HC w/ less than 5 years.
Still there are some serious diamonds in the rough out there. Risky yes, but reward high -
Agree ideally I'd like UW to hire a proven winner. Meaning this guy has won for over five years whether it be a BCS concerence, WAC/MWC, D-1AA, or D-2.unfrozencaveman said:Tressel had 14 years at Youngstown St, I wouldn't be looking at any existing HC w/ less than 5 years.
Still there are some serious diamonds in the rough out there. Risky yes, but reward high
I think hiring a Pat Hill, Ty, Gilby type would be the worst possible move. Hiring a guy with a "track record" but it's average say a Gary Pinkel type. -
The more I think about it, the more I like Craig Bohl. Defensive minded coach who has seen a BCS championship program first hand (so has Sark, but still). The difference is Bohl has won 2 national championships as a head coach, and is ranked #1 right now. The only negative with him is one 3-8 season, but Tressell had a couple losing season at Youngstown State as well. The most points Bohl has given up the past 3 years is 27. I'm surprised a Big 10 or Big 12 school has not snatched this guy up yet.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craig_Bohl -
I like this guy:
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Hudspeth
Largely because it would be fun to hang out with his wife: -
I think people are scared that he's already 55 so at most you are getting 20 years out of him. More likely to only get 10 years.RoadDawg55 said:The more I think about it, the more I like Craig Bohl. Defensive minded coach who has seen a BCS championship program first hand (so has Sark, but still). The difference is Bohl has won 2 national championships as a head coach, and is ranked #1 right now. The only negative with him is one 3-8 season, but Tressell had a couple losing season at Youngstown State as well. The most points Bohl has given up the past 3 years is 27. I'm surprised a Big 10 or Big 12 school has not snatched this guy up yet.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craig_Bohl
However, I think given his track record and recent upset of K-State someone will snatch him up. -
Fuck, 10 years of good coaching would be great. I understand the point, but this isn't a huge rebuild. This is a situation where championships would be expected in year one.He_Needs_More_Time said:
I think people are scared that he's already 55 so at most you are getting 20 years out of him. More likely to only get 10 years.RoadDawg55 said:The more I think about it, the more I like Craig Bohl. Defensive minded coach who has seen a BCS championship program first hand (so has Sark, but still). The difference is Bohl has won 2 national championships as a head coach, and is ranked #1 right now. The only negative with him is one 3-8 season, but Tressell had a couple losing season at Youngstown State as well. The most points Bohl has given up the past 3 years is 27. I'm surprised a Big 10 or Big 12 school has not snatched this guy up yet.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craig_Bohl
However, I think given his track record and recent upset of K-State someone will snatch him up.
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I don't know who this guy is, but this is the right idea. The problem is that montlake will go with a journeyman with a proper pedigree for D-1 ball. The doctrine of marinerization is money-first, and as long as you can get a pretty fair team, say a 7-6 team for example, year after year, in a fancy stadium with lots of crap on the jumbotron to keep the sheep's minds of how mediocre things are, but maybe next year, you are, going to be making money.RoadDawg55 said:The more I think about it, the more I like Craig Bohl. Defensive minded coach who has seen a BCS championship program first hand (so has Sark, but still). The difference is Bohl has won 2 national championships as a head coach, and is ranked #1 right now. The only negative with him is one 3-8 season, but Tressell had a couple losing season at Youngstown State as well. The most points Bohl has given up the past 3 years is 27. I'm surprised a Big 10 or Big 12 school has not snatched this guy up yet.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craig_Bohl -
If I could sign up for Rick Neuheisel's four years again I would in a second. So yes him only being able to coach 10 years wouldn't scare me.RoadDawg55 said:
Fuck, 10 years of good coaching would be great. I understand the point, but this isn't a huge rebuild. This is a situation where championships would be expected in year one.He_Needs_More_Time said:
I think people are scared that he's already 55 so at most you are getting 20 years out of him. More likely to only get 10 years.RoadDawg55 said:The more I think about it, the more I like Craig Bohl. Defensive minded coach who has seen a BCS championship program first hand (so has Sark, but still). The difference is Bohl has won 2 national championships as a head coach, and is ranked #1 right now. The only negative with him is one 3-8 season, but Tressell had a couple losing season at Youngstown State as well. The most points Bohl has given up the past 3 years is 27. I'm surprised a Big 10 or Big 12 school has not snatched this guy up yet.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craig_Bohl
However, I think given his track record and recent upset of K-State someone will snatch him up.
However, I'm not an A.D or a school president. I think his age is a big reason why nobody has snatched him up.
Unfortunately, a lot of schools(UW especially) put a lot of emphasis on KICK ASS! pressers, how you energize your fan base, recruiting, being "cool" with social media, etc.
When it should be strictly about winning games. -
James at Kent St requires a little bit of digging. What was their history like before James arrived? Are we acting like the National Guard never happened?He_Needs_More_Time said:
1971 Kent State 3–8 0–5 6th
1972 Kent State 6–5–1 4–1 1st L Tangerine
1973 Kent State 9–2 4–1 2nd
1974 Kent State 7–4 2–3 T–4th
Kent State: 25–19–1 10–10
His record was middling but he was on the way up as you can see there was significant improvement from his last two years vs his first two years.
While Paul Wulff here was his record at Eastern.
2000 Eastern Washington 6–5 5–2 5th
2001 Eastern Washington 7–4 3–4 5th
2002 Eastern Washington 6–5 3–4 4th
2003 Eastern Washington 6–5 3–4 6th
2004 Eastern Washington 9–4 6–1 T–1st L Div. I-AA Quarterfinals
2005 Eastern Washington 7–5 5–2 T–1st L Div. I-AA 1st round
2006 Eastern Washington 3–8 2–5 T–6th
2007 Eastern Washington 9–4 5–2 2nd L Div. I FCS Quarterfinals
Eastern Washington: 53–40 32–24
He was there for a while and was pretty average including going 3-8 in his 7th season. I'd say the situations were different.
Seriously though, you can see where he was trending upward and building upon his results.
Wulff's record at EWU looks very similar to Sark's ceiling. Lots of mediocrity with a special 9 win season sprinkled in often enough to excite the doogs. -
Kent State has never had history like Race pointed out they only went to their second bowl game ever last year. The first being with James. James had the ship going upward as you can see.CFetters_Nacho_Lover said:
James at Kent St requires a little bit of digging. What was their history like before James arrived? Are we acting like the National Guard never happened?He_Needs_More_Time said:
1971 Kent State 3–8 0–5 6th
1972 Kent State 6–5–1 4–1 1st L Tangerine
1973 Kent State 9–2 4–1 2nd
1974 Kent State 7–4 2–3 T–4th
Kent State: 25–19–1 10–10
His record was middling but he was on the way up as you can see there was significant improvement from his last two years vs his first two years.
While Paul Wulff here was his record at Eastern.
2000 Eastern Washington 6–5 5–2 5th
2001 Eastern Washington 7–4 3–4 5th
2002 Eastern Washington 6–5 3–4 4th
2003 Eastern Washington 6–5 3–4 6th
2004 Eastern Washington 9–4 6–1 T–1st L Div. I-AA Quarterfinals
2005 Eastern Washington 7–5 5–2 T–1st L Div. I-AA 1st round
2006 Eastern Washington 3–8 2–5 T–6th
2007 Eastern Washington 9–4 5–2 2nd L Div. I FCS Quarterfinals
Eastern Washington: 53–40 32–24
He was there for a while and was pretty average including going 3-8 in his 7th season. I'd say the situations were different.
Seriously though, you can see where he was trending upward and building upon his results.
Wulff's record at EWU looks very similar to Sark's ceiling. Lots of mediocrity with a special 9 win season sprinkled in often enough to excite the doogs.
While Wulff was the Sark of the Big Sky. Very average and finished outside the top 3 in five of his eight years there. Was 5th or worse in 50% of his seasons.
I'm all for hiring a lower level coach but if he's been there as long as Wulff! was I would have liked to have seen him start dominating opponents. -
This part is very important to me if you're going after a lower-level guy.He_Needs_More_Time said:
Kent State has never had history like Race pointed out they only went to their second bowl game ever last year. The first being with James. James had the ship going upward as you can see.CFetters_Nacho_Lover said:
James at Kent St requires a little bit of digging. What was their history like before James arrived? Are we acting like the National Guard never happened?He_Needs_More_Time said:
1971 Kent State 3–8 0–5 6th
1972 Kent State 6–5–1 4–1 1st L Tangerine
1973 Kent State 9–2 4–1 2nd
1974 Kent State 7–4 2–3 T–4th
Kent State: 25–19–1 10–10
His record was middling but he was on the way up as you can see there was significant improvement from his last two years vs his first two years.
While Paul Wulff here was his record at Eastern.
2000 Eastern Washington 6–5 5–2 5th
2001 Eastern Washington 7–4 3–4 5th
2002 Eastern Washington 6–5 3–4 4th
2003 Eastern Washington 6–5 3–4 6th
2004 Eastern Washington 9–4 6–1 T–1st L Div. I-AA Quarterfinals
2005 Eastern Washington 7–5 5–2 T–1st L Div. I-AA 1st round
2006 Eastern Washington 3–8 2–5 T–6th
2007 Eastern Washington 9–4 5–2 2nd L Div. I FCS Quarterfinals
Eastern Washington: 53–40 32–24
He was there for a while and was pretty average including going 3-8 in his 7th season. I'd say the situations were different.
Seriously though, you can see where he was trending upward and building upon his results.
Wulff's record at EWU looks very similar to Sark's ceiling. Lots of mediocrity with a special 9 win season sprinkled in often enough to excite the doogs.
While Wulff was the Sark of the Big Sky. Very average and finished outside the top 3 in five of his eight years there. Was 5th or worse in 50% of his seasons.
I'm all for hiring a lower level coach but if he's been there as long as Wulff! was I would have liked to have seen him start dominating opponents. -
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Good call on DeRuyter.
My short list in order, all reasonable:
Tim DeRuyter
Kyle Whittingham
Rod Carey -
That's been my favorite for a while. I remember a certain banned LOSER giving me shit for bringing him up.TommySQC said: -
Pass on wittingham. He has gotten his ass kicked by sark multiple times. I have seen him make brutal hires for assistants too.
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No to Whittingham
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1971 Kent State 3–8 0–5 6th
1972 Kent State 6–5–1 4–1 1st L Tangerine
Coaches that went to the Tangerine Bowl in their second year turned out pretty well. Here's a nice old interview, who would of known at the time
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDebAiNgEAM
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It's impossible to find another Don James, but I think if you look @ his early career, along with other highly successful HCs today (Meyer, Saban, etc.), there are some similarities:
1) Worked their way up, extensive assistant coaching experience before appointed HC
- James: 15 yrs
- Meyer: 15 yrs
- Saban: 18 yrs
2) Coached @ Big Time programs as assistants
- James: Florida St., Michigan, Colorado
- Meyer: Ohio St., Notre Dame
- Saban: Ohio St., Michigan St.
3) Previous HC experience where they showed immediate (w/in 2 seasons), dramatic improvement compared to before they arrived
- James: Took Kent St. to their only bowl game in program history in 2nd year as HC
- Meyer: Took over a Bowling Green team that went 2-9 in 2000; went 8-3 & 9-3 in his 2 seasons as HC
- Saban: Took over a 6-5 Toledo team, went 9-2 his 1st and only season
Current HCs that I found to have these similarities or @ least some of them:
1) Tim DeRuyter
- Extensive assistant coaching experience before becoming HC: 21 yrs
- Coached @ Big Time programs as assistant: Texas A&M
- Immediate, dramatic improvement: Went 9-4 in his 1st season, Fresno St. was 4-9 the previous season
2) Craig Bohl
- Extensive assistant coaching experience before becoming HC: 19 yrs
- Coached @ Big Time programs as assistant: Wisconsin, Nebraska
- Immediate, dramatic improvement: Went 8-3 in his 1st season, NDSU was 2-8 the previous season
3) James Franklin
- Extensive assistant coaching experience before becoming HC: 16 yrs
- Coached @ Big Time programs as assistant: Maryland, Kansas St.
- Immediate, dramatic improvement: Went 6-7 and 9-4 in 1st 2 seasons, Vanderbilt was 2-10 the previous season
I think any of these 3 HCs would do well @ UW. But digging deeper, James Franklin is doing a tremendous job @ Vanderbilt, especially considering:
1) Vanderbilt had never previously played in a bowl game in consecutive seasons
2) The 9-4 campaign in 2012 was only the 3rd 9 win season in program history
3) They beat Georgia last Saturday for the 1st time in 22 seasons!
4) It's the SEC
My order goes Franklin, DeRuyter, then Bohl.
Am I reaching here or what do y'all think?
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