#1 I wouldn't refer to guys like Saban, Holtz and Spurrier as failed NFL coaches who were then successful in college. Those guys were successful in college, tried and failed (to varying degrees) in the NFL and then went back to college. Besides, Mora and Carroll, what other coaches went from middling success in the NFL to the heights that Carroll reached and Mora is on pace for? Al Groh and Dave Wandestadt come to mind as mediocre pro coaches who then sucked as a college coaches.
#2. Offensive vs. Defensive coaches. Give me a fucking head coach. Don James was a college QB. Harbaugh was a college and pro QB. Both were football coaches. The problem with Sark isn't just that's he's an offensive coach but that he doesn't know enough or care enough about the other phases.
#3. If you're going to hire a lower-level coach, make sure it's a guy who is crushing the competition at his current level. The couple guys linked on the first page meet that criteria. Sounds like the guy at NDSU does as well. Don't go out and get a WULFF who I seem to remember wasn't exactly dominating the competition at EWU - he seemed to be a decent coach at that level but didn't have a 74-7 record either.
#4. If you're getting a guy with head coaching experience at a large school, don't pull another UW and hire guys who've already proven themselves to be incompetent like Gibly and Ty.
re: #3. How do you explain that you could turn an ordinary seeming Kent State coach into the most successful Husky coach in modern history? It's pretty much given here that Sark will be gone soon enough. Fine. His next job will be as an OC somewhere. Maybe even UW. There are two routes that can be taken for hiring the next coach: Marinerization OR Risk. With marinerization, the goal is to find somebody that will win enough games to keep fans interested, and will guarantee that, but there is no real attempt at creating a contender. Risk you find the next seemingly middling coach at somewhere like Kent State and roll the dice.
Was James a seemingly middling coach? I honestly don't know. I'm looking at Wulff as the polar opposite. I throw out that's not all science in doing this but I don't fucking Poolboy to make the right decision and want to limit his potential to fuck this up.
1971 Kent State 3–8 0–5 6th 1972 Kent State 6–5–1 4–1 1st L Tangerine 1973 Kent State 9–2 4–1 2nd 1974 Kent State 7–4 2–3 T–4th Kent State: 25–19–1 10–10
His record was middling but he was on the way up as you can see there was significant improvement from his last two years vs his first two years.
While Paul Wulff here was his record at Eastern.
2000 Eastern Washington 6–5 5–2 5th 2001 Eastern Washington 7–4 3–4 5th 2002 Eastern Washington 6–5 3–4 4th 2003 Eastern Washington 6–5 3–4 6th 2004 Eastern Washington 9–4 6–1 T–1st L Div. I-AA Quarterfinals 2005 Eastern Washington 7–5 5–2 T–1st L Div. I-AA 1st round 2006 Eastern Washington 3–8 2–5 T–6th 2007 Eastern Washington 9–4 5–2 2nd L Div. I FCS Quarterfinals Eastern Washington: 53–40 32–24
He was there for a while and was pretty average including going 3-8 in his 7th season. I'd say the situations were different.
Tressel had 14 years at Youngstown St, I wouldn't be looking at any existing HC w/ less than 5 years.
Still there are some serious diamonds in the rough out there. Risky yes, but reward high
Agree ideally I'd like UW to hire a proven winner. Meaning this guy has won for over five years whether it be a BCS concerence, WAC/MWC, D-1AA, or D-2.
I think hiring a Pat Hill, Ty, Gilby type would be the worst possible move. Hiring a guy with a "track record" but it's average say a Gary Pinkel type.
The more I think about it, the more I like Craig Bohl. Defensive minded coach who has seen a BCS championship program first hand (so has Sark, but still). The difference is Bohl has won 2 national championships as a head coach, and is ranked #1 right now. The only negative with him is one 3-8 season, but Tressell had a couple losing season at Youngstown State as well. The most points Bohl has given up the past 3 years is 27. I'm surprised a Big 10 or Big 12 school has not snatched this guy up yet.
The more I think about it, the more I like Craig Bohl. Defensive minded coach who has seen a BCS championship program first hand (so has Sark, but still). The difference is Bohl has won 2 national championships as a head coach, and is ranked #1 right now. The only negative with him is one 3-8 season, but Tressell had a couple losing season at Youngstown State as well. The most points Bohl has given up the past 3 years is 27. I'm surprised a Big 10 or Big 12 school has not snatched this guy up yet.
The more I think about it, the more I like Craig Bohl. Defensive minded coach who has seen a BCS championship program first hand (so has Sark, but still). The difference is Bohl has won 2 national championships as a head coach, and is ranked #1 right now. The only negative with him is one 3-8 season, but Tressell had a couple losing season at Youngstown State as well. The most points Bohl has given up the past 3 years is 27. I'm surprised a Big 10 or Big 12 school has not snatched this guy up yet.
I think people are scared that he's already 55 so at most you are getting 20 years out of him. More likely to only get 10 years.
However, I think given his track record and recent upset of K-State someone will snatch him up.
Fuck, 10 years of good coaching would be great. I understand the point, but this isn't a huge rebuild. This is a situation where championships would be expected in year one.
The more I think about it, the more I like Craig Bohl. Defensive minded coach who has seen a BCS championship program first hand (so has Sark, but still). The difference is Bohl has won 2 national championships as a head coach, and is ranked #1 right now. The only negative with him is one 3-8 season, but Tressell had a couple losing season at Youngstown State as well. The most points Bohl has given up the past 3 years is 27. I'm surprised a Big 10 or Big 12 school has not snatched this guy up yet.
I don't know who this guy is, but this is the right idea. The problem is that montlake will go with a journeyman with a proper pedigree for D-1 ball. The doctrine of marinerization is money-first, and as long as you can get a pretty fair team, say a 7-6 team for example, year after year, in a fancy stadium with lots of crap on the jumbotron to keep the sheep's minds of how mediocre things are, but maybe next year, you are, going to be making money.
The more I think about it, the more I like Craig Bohl. Defensive minded coach who has seen a BCS championship program first hand (so has Sark, but still). The difference is Bohl has won 2 national championships as a head coach, and is ranked #1 right now. The only negative with him is one 3-8 season, but Tressell had a couple losing season at Youngstown State as well. The most points Bohl has given up the past 3 years is 27. I'm surprised a Big 10 or Big 12 school has not snatched this guy up yet.
I think people are scared that he's already 55 so at most you are getting 20 years out of him. More likely to only get 10 years.
However, I think given his track record and recent upset of K-State someone will snatch him up.
Fuck, 10 years of good coaching would be great. I understand the point, but this isn't a huge rebuild. This is a situation where championships would be expected in year one.
If I could sign up for Rick Neuheisel's four years again I would in a second. So yes him only being able to coach 10 years wouldn't scare me.
However, I'm not an A.D or a school president. I think his age is a big reason why nobody has snatched him up.
Unfortunately, a lot of schools(UW especially) put a lot of emphasis on KICK ASS! pressers, how you energize your fan base, recruiting, being "cool" with social media, etc.
1971 Kent State 3–8 0–5 6th 1972 Kent State 6–5–1 4–1 1st L Tangerine 1973 Kent State 9–2 4–1 2nd 1974 Kent State 7–4 2–3 T–4th Kent State: 25–19–1 10–10
His record was middling but he was on the way up as you can see there was significant improvement from his last two years vs his first two years.
While Paul Wulff here was his record at Eastern.
2000 Eastern Washington 6–5 5–2 5th 2001 Eastern Washington 7–4 3–4 5th 2002 Eastern Washington 6–5 3–4 4th 2003 Eastern Washington 6–5 3–4 6th 2004 Eastern Washington 9–4 6–1 T–1st L Div. I-AA Quarterfinals 2005 Eastern Washington 7–5 5–2 T–1st L Div. I-AA 1st round 2006 Eastern Washington 3–8 2–5 T–6th 2007 Eastern Washington 9–4 5–2 2nd L Div. I FCS Quarterfinals Eastern Washington: 53–40 32–24
He was there for a while and was pretty average including going 3-8 in his 7th season. I'd say the situations were different.
James at Kent St requires a little bit of digging. What was their history like before James arrived? Are we acting like the National Guard never happened?
Seriously though, you can see where he was trending upward and building upon his results.
Wulff's record at EWU looks very similar to Sark's ceiling. Lots of mediocrity with a special 9 win season sprinkled in often enough to excite the doogs.
1971 Kent State 3–8 0–5 6th 1972 Kent State 6–5–1 4–1 1st L Tangerine 1973 Kent State 9–2 4–1 2nd 1974 Kent State 7–4 2–3 T–4th Kent State: 25–19–1 10–10
His record was middling but he was on the way up as you can see there was significant improvement from his last two years vs his first two years.
While Paul Wulff here was his record at Eastern.
2000 Eastern Washington 6–5 5–2 5th 2001 Eastern Washington 7–4 3–4 5th 2002 Eastern Washington 6–5 3–4 4th 2003 Eastern Washington 6–5 3–4 6th 2004 Eastern Washington 9–4 6–1 T–1st L Div. I-AA Quarterfinals 2005 Eastern Washington 7–5 5–2 T–1st L Div. I-AA 1st round 2006 Eastern Washington 3–8 2–5 T–6th 2007 Eastern Washington 9–4 5–2 2nd L Div. I FCS Quarterfinals Eastern Washington: 53–40 32–24
He was there for a while and was pretty average including going 3-8 in his 7th season. I'd say the situations were different.
James at Kent St requires a little bit of digging. What was their history like before James arrived? Are we acting like the National Guard never happened?
Seriously though, you can see where he was trending upward and building upon his results.
Wulff's record at EWU looks very similar to Sark's ceiling. Lots of mediocrity with a special 9 win season sprinkled in often enough to excite the doogs.
Kent State has never had history like Race pointed out they only went to their second bowl game ever last year. The first being with James. James had the ship going upward as you can see.
While Wulff was the Sark of the Big Sky. Very average and finished outside the top 3 in five of his eight years there. Was 5th or worse in 50% of his seasons.
I'm all for hiring a lower level coach but if he's been there as long as Wulff! was I would have liked to have seen him start dominating opponents.
1971 Kent State 3–8 0–5 6th 1972 Kent State 6–5–1 4–1 1st L Tangerine 1973 Kent State 9–2 4–1 2nd 1974 Kent State 7–4 2–3 T–4th Kent State: 25–19–1 10–10
His record was middling but he was on the way up as you can see there was significant improvement from his last two years vs his first two years.
While Paul Wulff here was his record at Eastern.
2000 Eastern Washington 6–5 5–2 5th 2001 Eastern Washington 7–4 3–4 5th 2002 Eastern Washington 6–5 3–4 4th 2003 Eastern Washington 6–5 3–4 6th 2004 Eastern Washington 9–4 6–1 T–1st L Div. I-AA Quarterfinals 2005 Eastern Washington 7–5 5–2 T–1st L Div. I-AA 1st round 2006 Eastern Washington 3–8 2–5 T–6th 2007 Eastern Washington 9–4 5–2 2nd L Div. I FCS Quarterfinals Eastern Washington: 53–40 32–24
He was there for a while and was pretty average including going 3-8 in his 7th season. I'd say the situations were different.
James at Kent St requires a little bit of digging. What was their history like before James arrived? Are we acting like the National Guard never happened?
Seriously though, you can see where he was trending upward and building upon his results.
Wulff's record at EWU looks very similar to Sark's ceiling. Lots of mediocrity with a special 9 win season sprinkled in often enough to excite the doogs.
Kent State has never had history like Race pointed out they only went to their second bowl game ever last year. The first being with James. James had the ship going upward as you can see.
While Wulff was the Sark of the Big Sky. Very average and finished outside the top 3 in five of his eight years there. Was 5th or worse in 50% of his seasons.
I'm all for hiring a lower level coach but if he's been there as long as Wulff! was I would have liked to have seen him start dominating opponents.
This part is very important to me if you're going after a lower-level guy.
Comments
1972 Kent State 6–5–1 4–1 1st L Tangerine
1973 Kent State 9–2 4–1 2nd
1974 Kent State 7–4 2–3 T–4th
Kent State: 25–19–1 10–10
His record was middling but he was on the way up as you can see there was significant improvement from his last two years vs his first two years.
While Paul Wulff here was his record at Eastern.
2000 Eastern Washington 6–5 5–2 5th
2001 Eastern Washington 7–4 3–4 5th
2002 Eastern Washington 6–5 3–4 4th
2003 Eastern Washington 6–5 3–4 6th
2004 Eastern Washington 9–4 6–1 T–1st L Div. I-AA Quarterfinals
2005 Eastern Washington 7–5 5–2 T–1st L Div. I-AA 1st round
2006 Eastern Washington 3–8 2–5 T–6th
2007 Eastern Washington 9–4 5–2 2nd L Div. I FCS Quarterfinals
Eastern Washington: 53–40 32–24
He was there for a while and was pretty average including going 3-8 in his 7th season. I'd say the situations were different.
Still there are some serious diamonds in the rough out there. Risky yes, but reward high
I think hiring a Pat Hill, Ty, Gilby type would be the worst possible move. Hiring a guy with a "track record" but it's average say a Gary Pinkel type.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craig_Bohl
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Hudspeth
Largely because it would be fun to hang out with his wife:
However, I think given his track record and recent upset of K-State someone will snatch him up.
However, I'm not an A.D or a school president. I think his age is a big reason why nobody has snatched him up.
Unfortunately, a lot of schools(UW especially) put a lot of emphasis on KICK ASS! pressers, how you energize your fan base, recruiting, being "cool" with social media, etc.
When it should be strictly about winning games.
Seriously though, you can see where he was trending upward and building upon his results.
Wulff's record at EWU looks very similar to Sark's ceiling. Lots of mediocrity with a special 9 win season sprinkled in often enough to excite the doogs.
While Wulff was the Sark of the Big Sky. Very average and finished outside the top 3 in five of his eight years there. Was 5th or worse in 50% of his seasons.
I'm all for hiring a lower level coach but if he's been there as long as Wulff! was I would have liked to have seen him start dominating opponents.
My short list in order, all reasonable:
Tim DeRuyter
Kyle Whittingham
Rod Carey
1972 Kent State 6–5–1 4–1 1st L Tangerine
Coaches that went to the Tangerine Bowl in their second year turned out pretty well. Here's a nice old interview, who would of known at the time