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Carlos Johnson (2016 SG) commits
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q2
Well said. Lots of variables in that argument. The PAC wasn't absolute dreck that year. Six 20 win teams. Maybe that happens, maybe not. Dentmon was nails to start the year and Pondexter found something near the end so they could have limped in that year, me thinks not. 26-9 with Thomas in 2009, 16-17 without him in 2008 with almost the same roster. Me thinks the scoring became easier with a bonafide future NBA all star slashing to the cup at will. Don't you?dnc said:
Dentmon scored basically as much as IT did with much better percentages. No IT means Dentmon's percentages go down but his scoring goes up. Defense would have definitely been better too because no IT would have meant more Pimperton. I think it would have been enough to make the tourney along with Pondexter finally emerging the last two months of the year. Definitely could be wrong on that one though.theknowledge said:
Disagree that the IT frosh team makes the tourney without him. He was our only for sure scoring threat as Brockman was a 6'6" power forward who had his shot blocked as much as it went in and Pondexter still had not come into his own. The #1 seed team I will concede.dnc said:
Somewhat lazy analysis. The #1 seed makes the tourney without Roy and IT's frosh team make it without him. The other four years, agree.theknowledge said:Roy made three tourneys and IT made three tourneys. Without an NBA all star on the roster Romar and this team are fucked. WWJC do? Make sure this team is fucked as long as Romar feels like collecting a paycheck. Thanks beeeyatch!
Irregardless, Jenn hearts Romar's 5 inches of slippery black thunder, so it's a mute poont. -
I might be giving IT too much credit, but Dentmon was shit before Isaiah. Isaiah was a program changer from day one especially from a mindset perspective. He had some struggles, but they were shitty the two seasons before he got there.dnc said:
Dentmon scored basically as much as IT did with much better percentages. No IT means Dentmon's percentages go down but his scoring goes up. Defense would have definitely been better too because no IT would have meant more Pimperton. I think it would have been enough to make the tourney along with Pondexter finally emerging the last two months of the year. Definitely could be wrong on that one though.theknowledge said:
Disagree that the IT frosh team makes the tourney without him. He was our only for sure scoring threat as Brockman was a 6'6" power forward who had his shot blocked as much as it went in and Pondexter still had not come into his own. The #1 seed team I will concede.dnc said:
Somewhat lazy analysis. The #1 seed makes the tourney without Roy and IT's frosh team make it without him. The other four years, agree.theknowledge said:Roy made three tourneys and IT made three tourneys. Without an NBA all star on the roster Romar and this team are fucked. WWJC do? Make sure this team is fucked as long as Romar feels like collecting a paycheck. Thanks beeeyatch!
Irregardless, Jenn hearts Romar's 5 inches of slippery black thunder, so it's a mute poont. -
That 2008-2009 was the exact same lineup as the sub-500 2007-2008 one, with the addition of IT. His impact cannot be understate.
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Dentmon was a lot slimmer his senior year than the two years before, and his shooting was astronomically better. IT was not a good passer as a frosh (he became one by his junior year) and he wasn't the type of much hyped 5 star/burger boy frosh that defenses plan around coming in. Sometimes players just get better, see Andrews this year, or Pondexter's senior season. There's no reason to credit a frosh who was a bad passer and took bad shots for Dentmon's senior development.RoadDawg55 said:
I might be giving IT too much credit, but Dentmon was shit before Isaiah. Isaiah was a program changer from day one especially from a mindset perspective. He had some struggles, but they were shitty the two seasons before he got there.dnc said:
Dentmon scored basically as much as IT did with much better percentages. No IT means Dentmon's percentages go down but his scoring goes up. Defense would have definitely been better too because no IT would have meant more Pimperton. I think it would have been enough to make the tourney along with Pondexter finally emerging the last two months of the year. Definitely could be wrong on that one though.theknowledge said:
Disagree that the IT frosh team makes the tourney without him. He was our only for sure scoring threat as Brockman was a 6'6" power forward who had his shot blocked as much as it went in and Pondexter still had not come into his own. The #1 seed team I will concede.dnc said:
Somewhat lazy analysis. The #1 seed makes the tourney without Roy and IT's frosh team make it without him. The other four years, agree.theknowledge said:Roy made three tourneys and IT made three tourneys. Without an NBA all star on the roster Romar and this team are fucked. WWJC do? Make sure this team is fucked as long as Romar feels like collecting a paycheck. Thanks beeeyatch!
Irregardless, Jenn hearts Romar's 5 inches of slippery black thunder, so it's a mute poont.
IT was a badass before he left UW. He wasn't a game changer as a freshman. -
And the subtraction of Appleby - probably my least favorite Husky hoopster ever. I hate him worse than Jensen (fuck white people!)Gladstone said:That 2008-2009 was the exact same lineup as the sub-500 2007-2008 one, with the addition of IT. His impact cannot be understate.
Both helped the team significantly. They don't win the conference (which was very good at that point as @theknowledge poonted out) or a good seed without IT, no question. I still think they would have made the NCAAs. -
***************************Warning: PLSS Triple Poast***************************
I think Brockman was the one irreplaceable player on that team. They had nothing else inside. I think they could have still made the tourney if they lost one of IT, Dentmon or QP, but not without the good guy down low breaking noses. -
Calling IT a bad passer who took bad shots as a freshman is some serious pressing. He was a first team all league player. Lots of good college guards have low FG%'s. Guys like Westbrook in the NBA have never shot great either. You are missing the big picture. IT was 2nd in the Pac 10 in FT attempts his freshman year behind James Harden.dnc said:
Dentmon was a lot slimmer his senior year than the two years before, and his shooting was astronomically better. IT was not a good passer as a frosh (he became one by his junior year) and he wasn't the type of much hyped 5 star/burger boy frosh that defenses plan around coming in. Sometimes players just get better, see Andrews this year, or Pondexter's senior season. There's no reason to credit a frosh who was a bad passer and took bad shots for Dentmon's senior development.RoadDawg55 said:
I might be giving IT too much credit, but Dentmon was shit before Isaiah. Isaiah was a program changer from day one especially from a mindset perspective. He had some struggles, but they were shitty the two seasons before he got there.dnc said:
Dentmon scored basically as much as IT did with much better percentages. No IT means Dentmon's percentages go down but his scoring goes up. Defense would have definitely been better too because no IT would have meant more Pimperton. I think it would have been enough to make the tourney along with Pondexter finally emerging the last two months of the year. Definitely could be wrong on that one though.theknowledge said:
Disagree that the IT frosh team makes the tourney without him. He was our only for sure scoring threat as Brockman was a 6'6" power forward who had his shot blocked as much as it went in and Pondexter still had not come into his own. The #1 seed team I will concede.dnc said:
Somewhat lazy analysis. The #1 seed makes the tourney without Roy and IT's frosh team make it without him. The other four years, agree.theknowledge said:Roy made three tourneys and IT made three tourneys. Without an NBA all star on the roster Romar and this team are fucked. WWJC do? Make sure this team is fucked as long as Romar feels like collecting a paycheck. Thanks beeeyatch!
Irregardless, Jenn hearts Romar's 5 inches of slippery black thunder, so it's a mute poont.
IT was a badass before he left UW. He wasn't a game changer as a freshman.
I agree Dentmon got better. That can't be disputed, but maybe, just maybe the game got a little easier having a guard who could get ito the key and make plays. That team would have been a lot worse without IT. IT and to a lesser extent, Venoy (I know he came in the year before) changed the program. Before them, they were nice kids. Isaiah brought a fuck you attitude that was a program changer. -
No it's not. He was absolutely a bad passer. He had a negative assist to turnover ratio. And he was either a bad shooter or he took bad shots.RoadDawg55 said:dnc said:
Dentmon was a lot slimmer his senior year than the two years before, and his shooting was astronomically better. IT was not a good passer as a frosh (he became one by his junior year) and he wasn't the type of much hyped 5 star/burger boy frosh that defenses plan around coming in. Sometimes players just get better, see Andrews this year, or Pondexter's senior season. There's no reason to credit a frosh who was a bad passer and took bad shots for Dentmon's senior development.RoadDawg55 said:
I might be giving IT too much credit, but Dentmon was shit before Isaiah. Isaiah was a program changer from day one especially from a mindset perspective. He had some struggles, but they were shitty the two seasons before he got there.dnc said:
Dentmon scored basically as much as IT did with much better percentages. No IT means Dentmon's percentages go down but his scoring goes up. Defense would have definitely been better too because no IT would have meant more Pimperton. I think it would have been enough to make the tourney along with Pondexter finally emerging the last two months of the year. Definitely could be wrong on that one though.theknowledge said:
Disagree that the IT frosh team makes the tourney without him. He was our only for sure scoring threat as Brockman was a 6'6" power forward who had his shot blocked as much as it went in and Pondexter still had not come into his own. The #1 seed team I will concede.dnc said:
Somewhat lazy analysis. The #1 seed makes the tourney without Roy and IT's frosh team make it without him. The other four years, agree.theknowledge said:Roy made three tourneys and IT made three tourneys. Without an NBA all star on the roster Romar and this team are fucked. WWJC do? Make sure this team is fucked as long as Romar feels like collecting a paycheck. Thanks beeeyatch!
Irregardless, Jenn hearts Romar's 5 inches of slippery black thunder, so it's a mute poont.
IT was a badass before he left UW. He wasn't a game changer as a freshman.
Calling IT a bad passer who took bad shots as a freshman is some serious pressing. He was a first team all league player. Lots of good college guards have low FG%'s. Guys like Westbrook in the NBA have never shot great either. You are missing the big picture. IT was 2nd in the Pac 10 in FT attempts his freshman year behind James Harden.
I agree Dentmon got better. That can't be disputed, but maybe, just maybe the game got a little easier having a guard who could get ito the key and make plays. That team would have been a lot worse without IT. IT and to a lesser extent, Venoy (I know he came in the year before) changed the program. Before them, they were nice kids. Isaiah brought a fuck you attitude that was a program changer.
Westbrook made 45% of his shots this year. That's a big jump from the 41% that IT made as a frosh. When Westbrook was making 41% of his shots he was a bad shooter.
I agree IT's attitude (along with Venoy) was a big benefit. I agree IT made the team better. I don't think he made Dentmon better though, not significantly. -
He made everyone better. You're hanging onto your opinion from back than. You weren't as bad as AntiDuckDawg, but you weren't a huge IT fan. He wasn't a true PG yet. That team always had 2 PG's on the floor. He got to the line at will. Collapsing defenses lead to more open shots.dnc said:
No it's not. He was absolutely a bad passer. He had a negative assist to turnover ratio. And he was either a bad shooter or he took bad shots.RoadDawg55 said:dnc said:
Dentmon was a lot slimmer his senior year than the two years before, and his shooting was astronomically better. IT was not a good passer as a frosh (he became one by his junior year) and he wasn't the type of much hyped 5 star/burger boy frosh that defenses plan around coming in. Sometimes players just get better, see Andrews this year, or Pondexter's senior season. There's no reason to credit a frosh who was a bad passer and took bad shots for Dentmon's senior development.RoadDawg55 said:
I might be giving IT too much credit, but Dentmon was shit before Isaiah. Isaiah was a program changer from day one especially from a mindset perspective. He had some struggles, but they were shitty the two seasons before he got there.dnc said:
Dentmon scored basically as much as IT did with much better percentages. No IT means Dentmon's percentages go down but his scoring goes up. Defense would have definitely been better too because no IT would have meant more Pimperton. I think it would have been enough to make the tourney along with Pondexter finally emerging the last two months of the year. Definitely could be wrong on that one though.theknowledge said:
Disagree that the IT frosh team makes the tourney without him. He was our only for sure scoring threat as Brockman was a 6'6" power forward who had his shot blocked as much as it went in and Pondexter still had not come into his own. The #1 seed team I will concede.dnc said:
Somewhat lazy analysis. The #1 seed makes the tourney without Roy and IT's frosh team make it without him. The other four years, agree.theknowledge said:Roy made three tourneys and IT made three tourneys. Without an NBA all star on the roster Romar and this team are fucked. WWJC do? Make sure this team is fucked as long as Romar feels like collecting a paycheck. Thanks beeeyatch!
Irregardless, Jenn hearts Romar's 5 inches of slippery black thunder, so it's a mute poont.
IT was a badass before he left UW. He wasn't a game changer as a freshman.
Calling IT a bad passer who took bad shots as a freshman is some serious pressing. He was a first team all league player. Lots of good college guards have low FG%'s. Guys like Westbrook in the NBA have never shot great either. You are missing the big picture. IT was 2nd in the Pac 10 in FT attempts his freshman year behind James Harden.
I agree Dentmon got better. That can't be disputed, but maybe, just maybe the game got a little easier having a guard who could get ito the key and make plays. That team would have been a lot worse without IT. IT and to a lesser extent, Venoy (I know he came in the year before) changed the program. Before them, they were nice kids. Isaiah brought a fuck you attitude that was a program changer.
Westbrook made 45% of his shots this year. That's a big jump from the 41% that IT made as a frosh. When Westbrook was making 41% of his shots he was a bad shooter.
I agree IT's attitude (along with Venoy) was a big benefit. I agree IT made the team better. I don't think he made Dentmon better though, not significantly.
Dentmon got better, especially as a shooter, but it's foolish to pretend like IT didn't play a big part. -
You're right, I wasn't a huge IT fan as a frosh. Because he wasn't very good as a frosh. He improved by a ton in his time at UW (and obviously since then).RoadDawg55 said:
He made everyone better. You're hanging onto your opinion from back than. You weren't as bad as AntiDuckDawg, but you weren't a huge IT fan. He wasn't a true PG yet. That team always had 2 PG's on the floor. He got to the line at will. Collapsing defenses lead to more open shots.dnc said:
No it's not. He was absolutely a bad passer. He had a negative assist to turnover ratio. And he was either a bad shooter or he took bad shots.RoadDawg55 said:dnc said:
Dentmon was a lot slimmer his senior year than the two years before, and his shooting was astronomically better. IT was not a good passer as a frosh (he became one by his junior year) and he wasn't the type of much hyped 5 star/burger boy frosh that defenses plan around coming in. Sometimes players just get better, see Andrews this year, or Pondexter's senior season. There's no reason to credit a frosh who was a bad passer and took bad shots for Dentmon's senior development.RoadDawg55 said:
I might be giving IT too much credit, but Dentmon was shit before Isaiah. Isaiah was a program changer from day one especially from a mindset perspective. He had some struggles, but they were shitty the two seasons before he got there.dnc said:
Dentmon scored basically as much as IT did with much better percentages. No IT means Dentmon's percentages go down but his scoring goes up. Defense would have definitely been better too because no IT would have meant more Pimperton. I think it would have been enough to make the tourney along with Pondexter finally emerging the last two months of the year. Definitely could be wrong on that one though.theknowledge said:
Disagree that the IT frosh team makes the tourney without him. He was our only for sure scoring threat as Brockman was a 6'6" power forward who had his shot blocked as much as it went in and Pondexter still had not come into his own. The #1 seed team I will concede.dnc said:
Somewhat lazy analysis. The #1 seed makes the tourney without Roy and IT's frosh team make it without him. The other four years, agree.theknowledge said:Roy made three tourneys and IT made three tourneys. Without an NBA all star on the roster Romar and this team are fucked. WWJC do? Make sure this team is fucked as long as Romar feels like collecting a paycheck. Thanks beeeyatch!
Irregardless, Jenn hearts Romar's 5 inches of slippery black thunder, so it's a mute poont.
IT was a badass before he left UW. He wasn't a game changer as a freshman.
Calling IT a bad passer who took bad shots as a freshman is some serious pressing. He was a first team all league player. Lots of good college guards have low FG%'s. Guys like Westbrook in the NBA have never shot great either. You are missing the big picture. IT was 2nd in the Pac 10 in FT attempts his freshman year behind James Harden.
I agree Dentmon got better. That can't be disputed, but maybe, just maybe the game got a little easier having a guard who could get ito the key and make plays. That team would have been a lot worse without IT. IT and to a lesser extent, Venoy (I know he came in the year before) changed the program. Before them, they were nice kids. Isaiah brought a fuck you attitude that was a program changer.
Westbrook made 45% of his shots this year. That's a big jump from the 41% that IT made as a frosh. When Westbrook was making 41% of his shots he was a bad shooter.
I agree IT's attitude (along with Venoy) was a big benefit. I agree IT made the team better. I don't think he made Dentmon better though, not significantly.
Dentmon got better, especially as a shooter, but it's foolish to pretend like IT didn't play a big part.
