Are you guys scared of Bernie yet?
Comments
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The wolf! Are you a pilot and, if so, have you blown shit up in one of those? Fuck that would be so much fun. I like what you and crazy8 are talking about here. A lot of the more talented carpenters, electricians, mechanics, plumbers etc. can make a really good living in their respective careers. How do the Brits determine whether a kid can go onto college? If you don't test well enough are you screwed and forced to go into the trades? How would you guys suggest we do this here in the states because I agree with you that college isn't for the vast majority of people who waste their time and money trying to get that degree.
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I definitely fly fictional helicopters, but it's a hobby, not a vocation.DuckHHunterisafag said:The wolf! Are you a pilot and, if so, have you blown shit up in one of those? Fuck that would be so much fun. I like what you and crazy8 are talking about here. A lot of the more talented carpenters, electricians, mechanics, plumbers etc. can make a really good living in their respective careers. How do the Brits determine whether a kid can go onto college? If you don't test well enough are you screwed and forced to go into the trades? How would you guys suggest we do this here in the states because I agree with you that college isn't for the vast majority of people who waste their time and money trying to get that degree.
From what I know, many European countries start channelling kids into vocational tracks from the time they are maybe mid-way through high school. From what I can tell, it is somewhat of an involuntary thing. I don't like that aspect of the European system at all. But Europeans care a lot less about personal freedoms than real Americans do, in general.
But better vocational training should be available in American public high schools. And public high schools shouldn't be captive to the foolish notion that everybody should go to college. Nor should they perpetuate it.
Even today, there are a lot of good opportunities out there for people that have skills in the trades. Many of those jobs are incredibly difficult to fill, because of the lack of qualified applicants. Yet we have an abundance of Millenial Occupy Wall Street shit-stains whining about their inability to service their student debt because their Womens' Studies and/or French Lit degrees are worthless. What a world. -
A lot of people have already touched on this, but I'll chime in as well.allpurpleallgold said:
And people that feel that way are making it very clear that they don't give a fuck about this country. It's only about your bank account.dhdawg said:
I don't necessarily disagree. I'm Just not sure he's the answer. His free college bullshit is what turns me off thoughFire_Marshall_Bill said:
We had wealth redistribution to the top for decades.PurpleJ said:I'm not worried about Bernie. I'm worried about the idiots that believe his policies will make thing better. Wealth redistribution will not make us better off as a nation.
And here we are
Making college free is two things. The first is it makes it high school 2.0. Which it fucking is. College isn't what people use to talk about. Everyone goes. It's the new high school diploma. Second, is it saves the people a shit load of money. YES, you'll have to pay for people to go to college and that sucks. But every future generation will save a fucking assload because they won't be paying off debt they'll be paying back the money they got to go college without interest.
If college is free, what is a students incentive to excel? There is no fear of dropping out or majoring in subjects like underwater basket weaving. The college loan is their consequence for treating college irresponsibly. Also, just like any other program the government sinks it's teeth into, the costs will skyrocket.
We live in the greatest country in the world. We are one of a handful of countries that give people the freedom to succeed. The natural consequence of this, is that they also have the freedom to fail. Would you rather live in a country that prevents you from failing, but holds you back from accomplishing personal wealth, or would you want to live in a country that lets you fail, but provides the framework for you to reach your highest potential? I don't think there's much debate.
You can't have your cake and eat it to. Entitlements always come with a price. You look at countries like Russia, China, etc. Their citizens get what they need to survive, but not much else. That cost is personal freedom.
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Sincerely,2001400ex said:
Actually Hillary is a good campaigner. You can disagree with her politics. But the Clinton machine is powerful in politics. And right now she's doing what she needs to, basically lie low and not do or say much.Southerndawg said:The Bern is garnering media interest because he's climbing in the polls. However, he is still way behind Clinton according to some polling such as this:
http://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/poll-clinton-holds-25-point-national-lead-over-sanders-n498071
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She is a contemptible person. Not only that, she is particularly transparent in her lack of any real convictions. While I have no doubt she is generally liberal-ish, the only specific thing I am sure she believes in is that she absolutely deserves to be be POTUS. And in this case, I mean deserves in the sense that it is something she is entitled to.salemcoog said:
Sincerely,2001400ex said:
Actually Hillary is a good campaigner. You can disagree with her politics. But the Clinton machine is powerful in politics. And right now she's doing what she needs to, basically lie low and not do or say much.Southerndawg said:The Bern is garnering media interest because he's climbing in the polls. However, he is still way behind Clinton according to some polling such as this:
http://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/poll-clinton-holds-25-point-national-lead-over-sanders-n498071
2008 -
This is Hillary to fucking tee. Spot on.AIRWOLF said:
She is a contemptible person. Not only that, she is particularly transparent in her lack of any real convictions. While I have no doubt she is generally liberal-ish, the only specific thing I am sure she believes in is that she absolutely deserves to be be POTUS. And in this case, I mean deserves in the sense that it is something she is entitled to.salemcoog said:
Sincerely,2001400ex said:
Actually Hillary is a good campaigner. You can disagree with her politics. But the Clinton machine is powerful in politics. And right now she's doing what she needs to, basically lie low and not do or say much.Southerndawg said:The Bern is garnering media interest because he's climbing in the polls. However, he is still way behind Clinton according to some polling such as this:
http://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/poll-clinton-holds-25-point-national-lead-over-sanders-n498071
2008
As I've said multiple times, Bernie's politics scare me a lot worse than Hillary, but he's he's one of the rare politicians who tells you the truth about what he wants to accomplish. Hillary's lack of integrity stands out, even for a politician. -
This. I've always believed that the US should adopt a more European-style of educating their children. Unfortunately I don't see that happening anytime soon because:AIRWOLF said:From what I know, many European countries start channelling kids into vocational tracks from the time they are maybe mid-way through high school. From what I can tell, it is somewhat of an involuntary thing. I don't like that aspect of the European system at all. But Europeans care a lot less about personal freedoms than real Americans do, in general.
But better vocational training should be available in American public high schools. And public high schools shouldn't be captive to the foolish notion that everybody should go to college. Nor should they perpetuate it.
Even today, there are a lot of good opportunities out there for people that have skills in the trades. Many of those jobs are incredibly difficult to fill, because of the lack of qualified applicants. Yet we have an abundance of Millenial Occupy Wall Street shit-stains whining about their inability to service their student debt because their Womens' Studies and/or French Lit degrees are worthless. What a world.
1) some believe funneling off kids to certain tracks damages their self esteem (which is a joke, since kids are bright enough to spot who among their peers excels at sports, reading, etc. as early as grade school - in fact, I think shoehorning them into ill fitting courses of study messes up their self worth far more than anything)
2) sadly going into a trade is still stigmatized in certain circles - back when I was in high school if you were put in Advanced Placement/Honors classes you were praised, and anyone who took auto shop or anything of a vocational nature were stereotyped as being less intelligent or ambitious
3) colleges and universities are (let's call them what they are) huge business - I'm sure the people that run them will do anything to belittle if not quash anyone who tries to take away their future customers -
Some of you don't realize:
1) vocational school actually exists in America.
2) high school isn't geared toward college. It's geared towards babysitting high school kids while trying to keep funding up.
3) some kids don't give a shit about any school, let alone vocational.
4) trying to convince kids based on a test that they don't belong in high school, but in a separate vocational school, is some straight up communist bullshit right out of Russia. -
It would have really helped you out.2001400ex said:4) trying to convince kids based on a test that they don't belong in high school, but in a separate vocational school, is some straight up communist bullshit right out of Russia.
#ditchdigger
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Pushpin this bitch. I actually agree with Honda on a couple points here.2001400ex said:Some of you don't realize:
1) vocational school actually exists in America.
2) high school isn't geared toward college. It's geared towards babysitting high school kids while trying to keep funding up.
3) some kids don't give a shit about any school, let alone vocational.
4) trying to convince kids based on a test that they don't belong in high school, but in a separate vocational school, is some straight up communist bullshit right out of Russia.
