71 Percent of MSNBC Viewers Think Rachel Dolezal is Black...
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RaceBannon said:
I think we need to be sure we are using actual psychiatry on the whole gender thing and not allowing it to be political. Before we allow someone to mutilate themselves we should be sure. Does it effect me? No. But I care about people other than rich celebs who are struggling with these things.
We don't let an anorexic starve because they identify as fat when they are thin as a rail. We don't let schizophrenics loose, If the transgender thing is an illness it should be treated as such. If it is shown that surgery treats it and the person lives a good life after, then go for it.
Where is the data on post surgery? Probably on the internet but I don't care that much
"We" should not be allowed to dictate whether or not someone else is "allowed" to do something to their body so long as they are lucid and capable of making decisions for themselves. "We" have no intrinsic right to make these decisions for others. It doesn't matter whether or not they psychiatrically "self identify" as something they're not or if they simply wish to be different from what they are. The only issue should be (and generally is) whether or not the decision and its consequences are understood. Along these lines, the ultimate personal decision is suicide and to that end, right to die laws for the terminally ill have been passed in four states, including Oregon and Washington.
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The irony of all of this if that is transgender and transracial are widely accepted, affirmative action, college admissions, etc will go out the window. Anyone wanting a job or college acceptance will simply check "female" or "african-american" on the related forms.
Oh, the unintended consequences...... -
Jiffy Lube will probably fire me when I no longer count on their redskin quota. Fuck.HuskyInAZ said:The irony of all of this if that is transgender and transracial are widely accepted, affirmative action, college admissions, etc will go out the window. Anyone wanting a job or college acceptance will simply check "female" or "african-american" on the related forms.
Oh, the unintended consequences...... -
Perhaps *we* should not, but *we* should be able to pass laws about what is decent for someone to do someone else. Some german freak advertised on the interwebs that he wanted to eat someone and someone answered the ad. He killed and ate the dude, who voluntarily signed up for this. linkSoutherndawg said:RaceBannon said:I think we need to be sure we are using actual psychiatry on the whole gender thing and not allowing it to be political. Before we allow someone to mutilate themselves we should be sure. Does it effect me? No. But I care about people other than rich celebs who are struggling with these things.
We don't let an anorexic starve because they identify as fat when they are thin as a rail. We don't let schizophrenics loose, If the transgender thing is an illness it should be treated as such. If it is shown that surgery treats it and the person lives a good life after, then go for it.
Where is the data on post surgery? Probably on the internet but I don't care that much
"We" should not be allowed to dictate whether or not someone else is "allowed" to do something to their body so long as they are lucid and capable of making decisions for themselves. "We" have no intrinsic right to make these decisions for others. It doesn't matter whether or not they psychiatrically "self identify" as something they're not or if they simply wish to be different from what they are. The only issue should be (and generally is) whether or not the decision and its consequences are understood. Along these lines, the ultimate personal decision is suicide and to that end, right to die laws for the terminally ill have been passed in four states, including Oregon and Washington.
A responsible society holds dude accountable for mutilation, cannibalism and murder, whether or not his victim agreed to be mutilated or not. No one had any issue with the government saying that heline.
It's not our right to say "you need to dress like a man". I think it can at least be argued that we have the right to say "you're not allowed to cut off a man's penis, even if he asks you to".
The earliest studies on gender reassignment surgery found it's success rate of treating gender dysphoria was very low. I have not seen the data on more recent surgeries, it's certainly possible it has improved. But if it has not, and at some point it's agreed upon in the scientific (rather than political world) that this experiment has been a failure and the surgery does not help people, I would argue we would have a responsibility to ban it. -
I was born a poor black womenHuskyInAZ said:The irony of all of this if that is transgender and transracial are widely accepted, affirmative action, college admissions, etc will go out the window. Anyone wanting a job or college acceptance will simply check "female" or "african-american" on the related forms.
Oh, the unintended consequences...... -
There’s weapons-grade stupid walking around in here. D2D nailed it when he said that there was weapons-grade stupid walking around where he is.RaceBannon said:That's not what that means. They are still stupid but they think she is white but black. A reverse oreo
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The real issue with Dolezal is her trumped up claims of hate
Her issue is not whether she is black or white or green or purple.allpurpleallgold said:
Here's a pretty good article about it.dnc said:
I actually agree with you. I think gender dysphoria is a real thing, though I imagine we have different thoughts on how to treat it. I also think this women is full of shit.allpurpleallgold said:God fucking dammit. This is so embarrassing. I hate the left as much as anyone when shit like this happens.
DNC said "if the same form holds" but that's the thing the same form shouldn't hold because it's not the same fucking thing. Caitlyn Jenner is going through something real. This bitch is just making shit up.
Caitlyn Jenner isn't ok because everything should be ok. We can't just accept everything. That's literally the slippery slope. We have to be discerning. And this racist cunt and anyone that supports her are clueless fucking clowns.
It does raise the question though, if we accept that one can have a different mental gender than physical gender, what precludes the possibility of someone having a different mental race than physical race? If someone says they *feel* like a women therefore we decide to treat them as a woman, why does someone *feeling* black or white or young or old or anything else preclude us from embracing them as such?
It's definitely a slippery slope, I'm just curious what type of standard do we set to keep trasnidentiies from popping up all over?
http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2015/06/17/3670801/transracial-adoption-rachel-dolezal-caitlyn-jenner/
We shouldn't accept anything just because that's how someone "feels". That's a pretty good place to start the standard. A feeling isn't enough. You should be able to demonstrate how it is you feel that way and defend why you feel that way. Psychologists should be able to identify it. There should be some amount of science behind it, the majority of which should back up your claim.
Dolezal pulled this out of thin air. She can't demonstrate it, she can't defend it. She uses empty phrases like "identify with the black experience". And there's certainly no science to back up what she's saying.
Her real problem is going to be dealing with all the false hate crime accusations. She ran the cops around (and they probably knew they were getting run around but had to 'investigate' because she was 'black' and a squeaky wheel). Now that public sentiment has turned on her, those old boys are going to come after her with a vengeance.
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In the absence of coercion, these two gentlemen should absolutely be allowed to agree to and engage in this disgusting arrangement.dnc said:
Perhaps *we* should not, but *we* should be able to pass laws about what is decent for someone to do someone else. Some german freak advertised on the interwebs that he wanted to eat someone and someone answered the ad. He killed and ate the dude, who voluntarily signed up for this. linkSoutherndawg said:RaceBannon said:I think we need to be sure we are using actual psychiatry on the whole gender thing and not allowing it to be political. Before we allow someone to mutilate themselves we should be sure. Does it effect me? No. But I care about people other than rich celebs who are struggling with these things.
We don't let an anorexic starve because they identify as fat when they are thin as a rail. We don't let schizophrenics loose, If the transgender thing is an illness it should be treated as such. If it is shown that surgery treats it and the person lives a good life after, then go for it.
Where is the data on post surgery? Probably on the internet but I don't care that much
"We" should not be allowed to dictate whether or not someone else is "allowed" to do something to their body so long as they are lucid and capable of making decisions for themselves. "We" have no intrinsic right to make these decisions for others. It doesn't matter whether or not they psychiatrically "self identify" as something they're not or if they simply wish to be different from what they are. The only issue should be (and generally is) whether or not the decision and its consequences are understood. Along these lines, the ultimate personal decision is suicide and to that end, right to die laws for the terminally ill have been passed in four states, including Oregon and Washington.
A responsible society holds dude accountable for mutilation, cannibalism and murder, whether or not his victim agreed to be mutilated or not. No one had any issue with the government saying that heline. -
I think kids at school should have to use the restroom that matches their sexual organs.dnc said:
Good response, haven't had time to read the article but I'm interested. As I said before I think gender dystopia is a thing, I don't think racial dystopia is a thing. That said, where do you stand on handling gender dystopia with kids? Do you think a child should be allowed to use whichever bathroom at school he/she/insert gender neutral term here prefers based on their professed identity? Or do you think that's too early to conclude that the kid actually has gender dystopia/transgender and it is wiser to wait until it's fully identifiable?allpurpleallgold said:
Here's a pretty good article about it.dnc said:
I actually agree with you. I think gender dysphoria is a real thing, though I imagine we have different thoughts on how to treat it. I also think this women is full of shit.allpurpleallgold said:God fucking dammit. This is so embarrassing. I hate the left as much as anyone when shit like this happens.
DNC said "if the same form holds" but that's the thing the same form shouldn't hold because it's not the same fucking thing. Caitlyn Jenner is going through something real. This bitch is just making shit up.
Caitlyn Jenner isn't ok because everything should be ok. We can't just accept everything. That's literally the slippery slope. We have to be discerning. And this racist cunt and anyone that supports her are clueless fucking clowns.
It does raise the question though, if we accept that one can have a different mental gender than physical gender, what precludes the possibility of someone having a different mental race than physical race? If someone says they *feel* like a women therefore we decide to treat them as a woman, why does someone *feeling* black or white or young or old or anything else preclude us from embracing them as such?
It's definitely a slippery slope, I'm just curious what type of standard do we set to keep trasnidentiies from popping up all over?
http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2015/06/17/3670801/transracial-adoption-rachel-dolezal-caitlyn-jenner/
We shouldn't accept anything just because that's how someone "feels". That's a pretty good place to start the standard. A feeling isn't enough. You should be able to demonstrate how it is you feel that way and defend why you feel that way. Psychologists should be able to identify it. There should be some amount of science behind it, the majority of which should back up your claim.
Dolezal pulled this out of thin air. She can't demonstrate it, she can't defend it. She uses empty phrases like "identify with the black experience". And there's certainly no science to back up what she's saying.
I'm not pretending to have these answers, I'm just genuinely curious to hear your (and others') opinions on this.
I can see the other side of the argument and I think it has valid points. I think honestly in the long run it would probably be good for kids to deal with that at a young age. But this comes down to why we seperate the restrooms. At this point you can't say it's for sexual reasons. We don't make gay people use a different restroom. So it's for function. One has a urinal for people with a penis. The other doesn't. We should probably stop labeling them men and women and start labeling them penis and vagina. -
I'm pretty libertarian but I can't get myself to go that far.Blackie said:
In the absence of coercion, these two gentlemen should absolutely be allowed to agree to and engage in this disgusting arrangement.dnc said:
Perhaps *we* should not, but *we* should be able to pass laws about what is decent for someone to do someone else. Some german freak advertised on the interwebs that he wanted to eat someone and someone answered the ad. He killed and ate the dude, who voluntarily signed up for this. linkSoutherndawg said:RaceBannon said:I think we need to be sure we are using actual psychiatry on the whole gender thing and not allowing it to be political. Before we allow someone to mutilate themselves we should be sure. Does it effect me? No. But I care about people other than rich celebs who are struggling with these things.
We don't let an anorexic starve because they identify as fat when they are thin as a rail. We don't let schizophrenics loose, If the transgender thing is an illness it should be treated as such. If it is shown that surgery treats it and the person lives a good life after, then go for it.
Where is the data on post surgery? Probably on the internet but I don't care that much
"We" should not be allowed to dictate whether or not someone else is "allowed" to do something to their body so long as they are lucid and capable of making decisions for themselves. "We" have no intrinsic right to make these decisions for others. It doesn't matter whether or not they psychiatrically "self identify" as something they're not or if they simply wish to be different from what they are. The only issue should be (and generally is) whether or not the decision and its consequences are understood. Along these lines, the ultimate personal decision is suicide and to that end, right to die laws for the terminally ill have been passed in four states, including Oregon and Washington.
A responsible society holds dude accountable for mutilation, cannibalism and murder, whether or not his victim agreed to be mutilated or not. No one had any issue with the government saying that heline. -
I'm a penis
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The next time you find yourself about to type "D2D nailed it" you should go kill yourself instead.EwaDawg said:
There’s weapons-grade stupid walking around in here. D2D nailed it when he said that there was weapons-grade stupid walking around where he is.RaceBannon said:That's not what that means. They are still stupid but they think she is white but black. A reverse oreo
