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Thomas Fremont: Regarding Upshaw
RoadDawg55
Member Posts: 30,334 
Comments
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Yeah at this points the odds of him returning are 0.
Goss should stay and improve his jumper, right now he's a mid 2nd round pick at best -
NWG returns. No question.
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Upshaw is going lottery and is the best big guy of the Romar era.
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Draft express is your source?
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FREE PUB!!!
I have always been much more critical of NWG than Upshaw. I maintain that I'd rather have Brockman, mostly because I don't give a fuck what these guys go on to do in the NBA. Brockman is a better college player. -
No he's not. Brockman is a better rebounder. That's it.ThomasFremont said:FREE PUB!!!
I have always been much more critical of NWG than Upshaw. I maintain that I'd rather have Brockman, mostly because I don't give a fuck what these guys go on to do in the NBA. Brockman is a better college player. -
Brockman is better at everything except for blocking shots. You can't even argue otherwise.RoadDawg55 said:
No he's not. Brockman is a better rebounder. That's it. -
Free throws. Brockman had a more advanced offensive game, but Upshaw is a much better finisher around the rim.ThomasFremont said:
Brockman is better at everything except for blocking shots. You can't even argue otherwise.
And the shot blocking is a pretty big deal. Upshaw changes games defensively. Brockman was a pretty limited defender although he was a good team defender. I don't think it's even close to who is/was better. -
FT % : Brockman = 61.2%, Upshaw = 44.2%...so, what's your point?RoadDawg55 said:
Free throws. Brockman had a more advanced offensive game, but Upshaw is a much better finisher around the rim.
And the shot blocking is a pretty big deal. Upshaw changes games defensively. Brockman was a pretty limited defender although he was a good team defender. I don't think it's even close to who is/was better.
FG% : Brockman = 53.4%, Upshaw = 50.6%...and Brockman took more outside shots that Upshaw doesn't even have in his arsenal. Again, what's your point?
Brockman scored more points, and pulled down more rebounds (which are more valuable than a blocked shot). Upshaw is his prison bitch. -
Just stop.ThomasFremont said:
FT % : Brockman = 61.2%, Upshaw = 44.2%...so, what's your point?
FG% : Brockman = 53.4%, Upshaw = 50.6%...and Brockman took more outside shots that Upshaw doesn't even have in his arsenal. Again, what's your point?
Brockman scored more points, and pulled down more rebounds (which are more valuable than a blocked shot). Upshaw is his prison bitch. -
I was with you until this.ThomasFremont said:
FT % : Brockman = 61.2%, Upshaw = 44.2%...so, what's your point?
FG% : Brockman = 53.4%, Upshaw = 50.6%...and Brockman took more outside shots that Upshaw doesn't even have in his arsenal. Again, what's your point?
Brockman scored more points, and pulled down more rebounds (which are more valuable than a blocked shot). Upshaw is his prison bitch.
W. JW.
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Upshaw is getting 12 and 10 with 4.5 blocks since PAC 12 play began. He has more blocks alone than any other PAC 12 team. I love Brockman and I liked Hawes, but it's come on.
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A defensive rebound is a stop, a sure thing. A block ends up in the stands or up in the air for a 50/50 jump ball more often than not.dnc said:
How is this even a debate? -
Stop making shit up and I will.RoadDawg55 said:
Just stop.
You are out of your fucking element here. -
PLSS triple post, bitchez!
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You were growing on me Fremont, but you've gone full fucktard in this thread.
A rim protecting, shot altering 7 footer is more valuable than a 6'7" rebounder. Upshaw is averaging 10 boards himself in PAC 12 play and over 8 in 25 minutes for the season. -
But do noses get broken when Upshaw plays? That's what I thought
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That 6'7" rebounder is also better at everything else EXCEPT for blocking shots.RoadDawg55 said:You were growing on me Fremont, but you've gone full fucktard in this thread.
A rim protecting, shot altering 7 footer is more valuable than a 6'7" rebounder. Upshaw is averaging 10 boards himself in PAC 12 play and over 8 in 25 minutes for the season.
Fuck off with your 7 game sample size.
When's your next date with Cyler? -
Upshaw is better. Easy call.ThomasFremont said:
That 6'7" rebounder is also better at everything else EXCEPT for blocking shots.
Fuck off with your 7 game sample size.
When's your next date with Cyler? -
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Defensive rebounds are more likely to be rebounded by another defender than they are the offensive player. If Brockman doesn't get those defensive boards UW still gets at least 75% of them.ThomasFremont said:
A defensive rebound is a stop, a sure thing. A block ends up in the stands or up in the air for a 50/50 jump ball more often than not.
How is this even a debate?
UW corrals the majority of Upshaw's blocked shots.
And that's without getting into the intimidation/demoralization factor of a blocked shot. There's a reason even bystanders start talking mess on the playground when someone tosses your shit. Nobody except maybe the rebounder runs up to tell you "you got boarded on, son". The mental aspect of hoops is ginormous.
Now, if you want to argue the value of the offensive rebounds Brockman had, that's a better debate. I'd still rather have an elite shotblocker than an elite rebounder. Romar's teams have always rebounded exceptionally well. Upshaw's our first real shotblocker. -
Let's just say that one is the kind of guy you'd want your daughter to date, and the other isn't.RaceBannon said:But do noses get broken when Upshaw plays? That's what I thought
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OK, but that's not the debate here.dnc said:
Defensive rebounds are more likely to be rebounded by another defender than they are the offensive player. If Brockman doesn't get those defensive boards UW still gets at least 75% of them.
UW corrals the majority of Upshaw's blocked shots.
And that's without getting into the intimidation/demoralization factor of a blocked shot. There's a reason even bystanders start talking mess on the playground when someone tosses your shit. Nobody except maybe the rebounder runs up to tell you "you got boarded on, son". The mental aspect of hoops is ginormous.
Now, if you want to argue the value of the offensive rebounds Brockman had, that's a better debate. I'd still rather have an elite shotblocker than an elite rebounder. Romar's teams have always rebounded exceptionally well. Upshaw's our first real shotblocker. -
Like I said I'm with you on Brockman's game versus Upshaw's game. My dispute was with the idea that a single rebound is worth more than a single blocked shot. Brockman's ability to be so effective offensively without ever needing the ball to go through him made him the superior player for me. Pondexter and Dentmon and IT could split all the shots and Brockman would not only get their misses but still convert them into points. He was the best player on that team, IMO.ThomasFremont said:
OK, but that's not the debate here. -
For this team, with this coach, I'd take Brockness Monster over Upshaw 100 times out of 100. RD continuing his Fetters smug/condescending tear of the past few weeks. And you're a Cyler defender and gleefully try to lower expectations for next year. Boo you, sir.
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I agree that getting stuffed can be demoralizing on a personal level. However, giving up 2-3 offensive rebounds on the same possession and having to play defense for 3 straight possessions is demoralizing for the entire team. Same goes for getting out worked and never getting any second chance points.dnc said:
Like I said I'm with you on Brockman's game versus Upshaw's game. My dispute was with the idea that a single rebound is worth more than a single blocked shot. Brockman's ability to be so effective offensively without ever needing the ball to go through him made him the superior player for me. Pondexter and Dentmon and IT could split all the shots and Brockman would not only get their misses but still convert them into points. He was the best player on that team, IMO.
I'd also like to see stats about UW recovering "most" of Upshaw's blocks. Not saying you are wrong, but that seems questionable. -
Huh?Gladstone said:For this team, with this coach, I'd take Brockness Monster over Upshaw 100 times out of 100. RD continuing his Fetters smug/condescending tear of the past few weeks. And you're a Cyler defender and gleefully try to lower expectations for next year. Boo you, sir.
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I'm hearing that Upshaw may not last long with this team.
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well, i wasted about 45kb typing that response
TSIO -
Upshaw is a game changer defensively. Brockman never was. I would love to see what the guy they guarded shot against them. Upshaw rarely gets scored on inside. Every game he's blocking a ton of shots and making the opponent nervous about entering the key. If you put him on a team with Justin Holliday and Overton.... Fahget about it!ThomasFremont said:
I agree that getting stuffed can be demoralizing on a personal level. However, giving up 2-3 offensive rebounds on the same possession and having to play defense for 3 straight possessions is demoralizing for the entire team. Same goes for getting out worked and never getting any second chance points.
I'd also like to see stats about UW recovering "most" of Upshaw's blocks. Not saying you are wrong, but that seems questionable.
Upshaw is rebounding at a pretty good rate himself. I agree that Brockman has a better overall game, but let's be real. Brockman wasn't that polished himself. His game was rebounding and hustling. He did it very well. He had one move on the post, the quick spin. He wasn't a very good shooter, he wasn't a passer, and he didn't have a handle. His free throws were in the low 60's on his best season and only 51% his junior year.
There were ton of guys with better overall games than Shaq. It doesn't make them better. Not a comparison at all so don't twist. Upshaw's strengths are so great it makes him a better player than Brockman.
You also act like Upshaw is Aziz on offense. He's not. He catches the ball and has nice touch around the hoop. Dare I say he's a better finisher than Brockman, mainly because of his size.
