Cavs look great

RoadDawg55 said:

Tequilla said:

RoadDawg55 said:

Tequilla said:

RoadDawg55 said:

They have been good on defense every year. The criticism is their offense (especially halfcourt) sucks considering they have Durant and Westbrook.

The reason that their halfcourt offense sucks is because the ball sticks in the hands of Durant and Westbrook.

Now, you can put some blame on Scott Brooks for that because he doesn't do a good job of demanding ball movement and holding KD and Westbrook accountable for when they just start jacking up shots (more of a Westbrook issue IMO).

But if you can't see that Durant and in particular Westbrook play a lot of 1 on 1 ball, then I don't know what to tell you. Westbrook is averaging 31 minutes per game so far on the season and he's shooting the ball on average 20 times per game.

Durant's the best pure scorer in the game, but until he cleans up some major weaknesses in his offensive game, he'll never reach the high levels that he COULD reach as being the most influential offensive player in the game.

I think Durant is a better Karl Malone, Barkley, etc. Part of the reason those guys didn't win titles was bad timing and luck, but they were also lacking something.

They don't win when Westbrook is out or plays shitty. The narrative has become stupid. Most analysts even seem to realize that. Memphis made quick work out of the Thunder when Westbrook got hurt in the playoffs. He's a legitimate star. Who is the last star pure PG to win anything? The game has changed.

Agree that Durant is better than Malone. I'd like to see Durant get to Barkley's level as a passer.

I'm not saying that Westbrook isn't a good player.

My criticism of KD and Westbrook is that the ball movement isn't there. Forget about PGs or Bigs in today's game ... ball movement is the most important attribute IMO of good teams as bigs don't dominate the game anymore. Last year, the Spurs made the Heat dizzy with their ball movement. The Heat teams that won titles had strong ball movement. The Mavs had strong ball movement. That's the game today.

I can agree with that. With Lopez and Waiters/Morrow, there will be no excuse for the ball to stick.

But the ball will stick ... both you and I know that.

RaceBannon said:

I can go with the Knicks and Pacers as worse than the Heat but they didn't win. No loser was worse than the Cavs. Hard to find a winner worse than the Heat winners. We aren't talking about Lebron losing every Finals, he has two rings.

As for where he ranks, Kareem is the best by far. Magic never won a ring without him. Give Lebron Kareem and he has at least 5 rings. Magic lost 4 finals too. Lebron would kill Larry and Larry would admit that. Jordan is better and second only to Kareem. Lebron is top 5.

The Heat dream team wasn't nearly as talented as the Lakers ad Celtics in the 80's or the Lakers in the 2000's. The Heat had no center. Their defense was Lebron. To say he isn't smart or only relies on DNA is TQFS.

Lebron's peers and guys like Barkley know how great he is. Haters gonna hate

Haha ... Magic never won a ring without Kareem.

You do realize that by the time the Lakers won the titles in '87 and '88 The Big Nitty was a role player on that team with Magic as the lead with Big Game James and Byron Scott carrying more of the load? Or the fact that the title the Lakers won in '80 was because of the performance that Magic turned in once Kareem got hurt?

As for losing however many title series that the Lakers lost, let's also remember that the West during that time period was about as weak as the East has been during LBJ's tenure. Not only did Magic win at a higher rate, but when he lost in the Finals, it was to all-time great teams in the '83 Sixers, the '84 Celtics, the '89 Pistons, and the '91 Bulls. No shame in losing to ANY of those teams. Particularly when you consider that the Lakers beat the Sixers in 2 out of 3 Finals series in that era, the Celtics 2 of 3, and split with the Pistons.

Bird would say that because he's Indiana humble like that. Magic said it best when he said that there will never be another Larry Bird. Bird had a gear that he could get to that LBJ can only get to in rare moments. Bird did that time after time after time.

Kareem isn't Russell ... he's not the best big to ever play the game. And in all honesty, Kareem's record without Magic isn't that good either. He won exactly 1 title and made it to 2 Finals before he had Magic. So it goes both ways.

My personal list would have Jordan, Russell, Magic, Kareem, and Bird. Those are the 5 best players to ever play the game. You have to be a damn good player to get into that pantheon ... and LBJ isn't that player IMO.

RaceBannon said:

Bird lol. If he was black he'd be just another guy

I like to say the guy that beat the Pistons in Game 7 for the back to back in 1988 wasn't a factor. Kareem was the man on the Lakers. He was the Captain, not Magic.

I'm not saying the Lakers sucked, with 4 hall of famers they better not. Lebron had one aging crippled hall of famer on his two title teams and he's not done. It's no shame to lose to the Spurs either. The Dallas series is Lebron's anchor but that is a better team than most give them credit for.

He's easily top 5

Race is out of his element here.

Kareem scored a grand total of 4 points in Game 7 of the '88 Finals.

The Lakers won because Big Game James earned his nickname by posting his only career Triple Double and Magic was Magic with a 19-5-14 performance on only 9 shots from the field.