Thoughts on Jonathan Smith
I agree there's a chance that Smith is a problem and in over his head. I do find it to be a puzzling hire given his resume. It also doesn't help matters that he doesn't look like a commanding leader, to say the least.
But my position of not completely rushing to judgment is based on two main factors. First, the decisions about which personal to use stems from Petersen's philosophy of OKG's and Smith has to adhere to that. Second, as the Huskies were running the ball down UCLA's throat and got inside the red zone, how do we know that Smith didn't have another off tackle play dialed up for Shaq, when Petersen intervened and told him it seemed like a grand time to run consecutive fly sweeps? We don't know what is going on there. For all we know, Petersen might have been the problem there.
When I was a teenager I used to get mad at Gary Pinkel for being so conservative, not understanding until later it was the Don James philosophy that led Pinkel to be that way. It's in that spirit that I'm trying to LIPO a bit before seeing if these disturbing offensive trends we are seeing stem from the OC or head coach. And at the end of the day, the head coach is the one who hired the OC.
So I guess that's all I have to say on the matter.
Comments
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That's your big announcement?
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Not that I watched much of the game, but I'm pretty sure UW got its ass kicked in all three phases by UCLA.
Let's all blame the OC for that. -
You don't win over 80% of your games for being stupid.
However,
It is starting to appear as if Peterman forgot how to coach. -
A thoughtful, reasoned (yet technically unsound) post.
It won't do very well in this forum. -
Petersen said way back that he doesn't like to interfere with the coordinators during the game. Maybe he should reevaluate that stance.
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Lost in all this is that Shaq and the block by Clay on the Ross return were the only two instances where UW looked as tough or tougher than UCLA.TierbsHsotBoobs said:Not that I watched much of the game, but I'm pretty sure UW got its ass kicked in all three phases by UCLA.
Let's all blame the OC for that. -
Here are some quotes from Petersen on his assistants and personnel. It's pretty clear that in the past his assistants have chosen which players to play. One could assume his philosophy is consistent on the play calling as well. But, of course, we don't know for sure unless a media member asks the question and he answers it.DerekJohnson said:I realize that I'm the only one in the Western Hemisphere defending Jonathan Smith at all, and that my words are bound to be misunderstood by some.
I agree there's a chance that Smith is a problem and in over his head. I do find it to be a puzzling hire given his resume. It also doesn't help matters that he doesn't look like a commanding leader, to say the least.
But my position of not completely rushing to judgment is based on two main factors. First, the decisions about which personal to use stems from Petersen's philosophy of OKG's and Smith has to adhere to that. Second, as the Huskies were running the ball down UCLA's throat and got inside the red zone, how do we know that Smith didn't have another off tackle play dialed up for Shaq, when Petersen intervened and told him it seemed like a grand time to run consecutive fly sweeps? We don't know what is going on there. For all we know, Petersen might have been the problem there.
When I was a teenager I used to get mad at Gary Pinkel for being so conservative, not understanding until later it was the Don James philosophy that led Pinkel to be that way. It's in that spirit that I'm trying to LIPO a bit before seeing if these disturbing offensive trends we are seeing stem from the OC or head coach. And at the end of the day, the head coach is the one who hired the OC.
So I guess that's all I have to say on the matter.
Where did philosophy come from of allowing assistants so much freedom?
“Maybe me being an assistant. I think we’ve got really good assistants that know what they’re doing. I trust them as much as anybody in the world. And if they want my opinion, which some of them do, I’ll give them my two cents. But these guys are great coaches and I trust them. If they think that guy should play, and he should play a little more than him, that’s what we do.”
Do you ever intervene?
“I don’t think since I’ve been a head coach I’ve ever had a disagreement with an assistant on who should play. I think we see things – we’re all trying to get the best guys on the field, I think we see things pretty clearly.”
Read more here: http://blog.thenewstribune.com/uwsports/2014/08/27/quoting-chris-petersen-on-hawaii-recruiting-and-autonomy-among-assistants/#storylink=cpy
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While I don't think Smith has done a great or even good job at OC this year, I'm not going to trash him to no end like many are doing. With the clusrerfuck at OL, RB, and QB that he was left with I'll give him the benefit of the doubt at this point and LIPO. I don't think he's coaching Cyler to be slow and dumb. I don't think he's coaching DiAndre Campbell to drop the ball, and I don't think he's coaching Mickens to run backwards. In a way, he's playing Texas Hold 'em and keeps getting dealt 2s and 7s non-suited. I'll give him another year or two to get his system in place and to get the Sark stink off.
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Boise use to make unconventional, seemingly high risk play calls on a regular basis when their offense was rolling. I'm not talking about specific, high profile ones that have gotten all the publicity (hook and ladder, statue of liberty) but routine play calls mixed into routine drives. They would pull strange plays out of nowhere and pull them off more often than not.
I don't think Petersen is involved in specific play calls, but I think it's a reflection of his offensive philosophy. I'm personally not concerned about it anymore. When the personnel and the training match the philosophy it will start working. I'm still confident that it will eventually match even though the process of getting there is more painful than I was prepared for. -
Smith is just the most visible part of the problem...the entire offensive staff is a bit of a head-scratcher:
- Strausser (OL) - seems legit...no problems there.
- PaoPao (TE) - brand new coach and hold-over from Sark...not saying he's a bad coach but a newbie.
- Pease (WR) - Experience coach with a really checkered history, including his 2 year pissing match at UK as the OC and his 2 year failure as Florida's OC. Suppose to be a good recruiter, but not sure on his coaching or his personality.
kentucky.com/2012/09/19/2342968/john-clay-hefty-lefty-still-throwing.html
cbssports.com/collegefootball/eye-on-college-football/24310386/ap-florida-coach-will-muschamp-fires-offensive-coordinator-brent-pease
- Bhonaphala (RBs) - College DB who's coached with Peterson and been his recruiting guy...my guess is a decent coach (assuming someone other that Shaq learns how to run) but one focused mostly on recruiting
and finally Smith (QBs/OC) -
Its not just that Smith is inexperienced and doesn't seem to know how to adapt his people to what he wants to do (still amazed in a driving rain and 30mph winds they gave TW his first start instead of starting Lundquist and running the read-option Swede 50 times...difference between inflexibility and trying to find any way to win). The entire offensive staff doesn't have a lot of history/experience with the exception of Pease, and his is pretty checkered with his time and UK and UF. He also seems to be a pretty strong personality, so not sure how he and Smith work together especially as the offensive gets more inept week-to-week (and I'm assuming the others aren't really focused on overall strategy).
Just a weird group of folks together...you'd think Peterman would be hands on and would get involved with the offense more to right the ship but can't say I've seen that. -
Nice post Derek. I still think Smith is a fucking idiot and I would celebrate him getting axed, but you raise some valid points. Ultimately, Petersen is responsible for this dreckfest offense.
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IMO, the talent level left to Pete is way below what most people believed at the beginning of the year. Pete is trying to figure out who's going to stay with the team in the future and who isn't at this point. Everything I'm seeing on the field is experimentation to see who's worth a shit and who isn't.
And do you really think Sark would have left if he thought he'd stock piled a team with PAC 12 championship caliber players?!?! What fucking coach has EVER done that???
Fuck people, let the foundation be built before you decide the house is going to fall down! Too many fucking chicken littles around here. -
18 - 20 games......vadawg said:IMO, the talent level left to Pete is way below what most people believed at the beginning of the year. Pete is trying to figure out who's going to stay with the team in the future and who isn't at this point. Everything I'm seeing on the field is experimentation to see who's worth a shit and who isn't.
And do you really think Sark would have left if he thought he'd stock piled a team with PAC 12 championship caliber players?!?! What fucking coach has EVER done that???
Fuck people, let the foundation be built before you decide the house is going to fall down! Too many fucking chicken littles around here. -
USC is a better job to 99% of people who follow college football. And he got a raise. And he's from the greater LA area. That is why Sark left.vadawg said:IMO, the talent level left to Pete is way below what most people believed at the beginning of the year. Pete is trying to figure out who's going to stay with the team in the future and who isn't at this point. Everything I'm seeing on the field is experimentation to see who's worth a shit and who isn't.
And do you really think Sark would have left if he thought he'd stock piled a team with PAC 12 championship caliber players?!?! What fucking coach has EVER done that???
Fuck people, let the foundation be built before you decide the house is going to fall down! Too many fucking chicken littles around here.
I agree about the experimentation. It's at least true to some extent. It doesn't make the struggles any less maddening. Or maybe it's a precursor of how it is going to be. If it is a problem, axe Smith now instead of going through another year or two of this shit.
It's not being a chicken little. This all in or all out shit with coaches is fucking stupid. Why can't we just be all in on winning? Nobody is calling for him to be fired, but right now, Petersen sucks. If/when he wins, he's great. The dig a little deeper and wait for the foundation or for Petersen to get his own guys is the same shit we heard with the last couple coaches. The only difference is Petersen has a far superior resume. -
I actually agree with a lot of what you said, but the bolded part is a big fucking deal.RoadDawg55 said:
USC is a better job to 99% of people who follow college football. And he got a raise. And he's from the greater LA area. That is why Sark left.vadawg said:IMO, the talent level left to Pete is way below what most people believed at the beginning of the year. Pete is trying to figure out who's going to stay with the team in the future and who isn't at this point. Everything I'm seeing on the field is experimentation to see who's worth a shit and who isn't.
And do you really think Sark would have left if he thought he'd stock piled a team with PAC 12 championship caliber players?!?! What fucking coach has EVER done that???
Fuck people, let the foundation be built before you decide the house is going to fall down! Too many fucking chicken littles around here.
I agree about the experimentation. It's at least true to some extent. It doesn't make the struggles any less maddening. Or maybe it's a precursor of how it is going to be. If it is a problem, axe Smith now instead of going through another year or two of this shit.
It's not being a chicken little. This all in or all out shit with coaches is fucking stupid. Why can't we just be all in on winning? Nobody is calling for him to be fired, but right now, Petersen sucks. If/when he wins, he's great. The dig a little deeper and wait for the foundation or for Petersen to get his own guys is the same shit we heard with the last couple coaches. The only difference is Petersen has a far superior resume. -
This post smells a lot like the 0-12 talent argument. There is not a huge talent gap between UW, Stanford, UCLA and ASU. Stanford and ASU came down to a couple of brain dead play calls at key times. And IF you play UCLA with Peters and Hau'oli the entire game, I think talent wise it is a very close game.vadawg said:IMO, the talent level left to Pete is way below what most people believed at the beginning of the year. Pete is trying to figure out who's going to stay with the team in the future and who isn't at this point. Everything I'm seeing on the field is experimentation to see who's worth a shit and who isn't.
And do you really think Sark would have left if he thought he'd stock piled a team with PAC 12 championship caliber players?!?! What fucking coach has EVER done that???
Fuck people, let the foundation be built before you decide the house is going to fall down! Too many fucking chicken littles around here.
TSHBO for some time now, so I guess we get to wait until next year to see if Coach Pete can live up to his reputation of a "great" coach, or if the Boise St "Big Boy" curse is alive and well. -
Smith needs to get the QB and WRs timing corrected.
Go watch some of Baylor's offense, they have their timing down correct. UW has better athletes than Baylor. -
I like to AuburnDoog the goal poasts away from 15 games. I do that.MikeDamone said:
18 - 20 games......vadawg said:IMO, the talent level left to Pete is way below what most people believed at the beginning of the year. Pete is trying to figure out who's going to stay with the team in the future and who isn't at this point. Everything I'm seeing on the field is experimentation to see who's worth a shit and who isn't.
And do you really think Sark would have left if he thought he'd stock piled a team with PAC 12 championship caliber players?!?! What fucking coach has EVER done that???
Fuck people, let the foundation be built before you decide the house is going to fall down! Too many fucking chicken littles around here. -
As for the Smith, he is over his head. His first year at Boise St, his offense avg. 30 pts/ game, by far their lowest output in recent memory(I went back to 03'). They raised it up to 38 pts/ game in 12' bolstered by scoring 60+ against UT-Martin & So. Miss (1-11 that year).
6 years prior to Smith, Boise avg. 39+ pts/game for 6 straight years.
All you need to know about Smith is he obviously thinks Mickens > Ross & Washington > Cooper
and after pounding down ASU's throat down the middle, you run a pitch to Shaq (with him lined up on that side of QB) on a key 3rd down at their 2. -
The talent problem is that the talent of the team is very concentrated. Certain guys had to stay healthy so that the team as a whole could make progress. Against UCLA there was no Kikaha, Peters, Riva or Charles. Take away these guys and the team looks worse in any scenario even though some young guys are probably getting better.
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Smith wasn't the OC at Boise, he was the QB coach there.IrishDawg22 said:As for the Smith, he is over his head. His first year at Boise St, his offense avg. 30 pts/ game, by far their lowest output in recent memory(I went back to 03'). They raised it up to 38 pts/ game in 12' bolstered by scoring 60+ against UT-Martin & So. Miss (1-11 that year).
6 years prior to Smith, Boise avg. 39+ pts/game for 6 straight years.
All you need to know about Smith is he obviously thinks Mickens > Ross & Washington > Cooper
and after pounding down ASU's throat down the middle, you run a pitch to Shaq (with him lined up on that side of QB) on a key 3rd down at their 2.
Robert Prince was the dreck OC in 2012, 2013. -
I think there is arguments on both sides. The talent isn't there to flat out win games, but the coaching isn't there at times to win the close ones.
The thing with talent is that we get a fresh batch each year to mold and configure how we see fit. The coaches, however, are paid and expected to be here for quite some time.
Sure, had we had the likes of KP, Sankey, ASJ, we may have outright won a couple more, but we had talent that kept us in the games and had us competing. We need more talent, yes, as it will help us not worry about close games. However, our coaching has shot ourselves in the foot on numerous occasions.
I do not feel the sky is falling, though the clouds are dropping and I think the gods need to claim Smith to the unemployment line.
He was a QB coach at Boise... not an OC. I'm not a fan of that little experience at the highest assistant level. -
15 games wants to know why you're not returning her calls.MikeDamone said:
18 - 20 games......vadawg said:IMO, the talent level left to Pete is way below what most people believed at the beginning of the year. Pete is trying to figure out who's going to stay with the team in the future and who isn't at this point. Everything I'm seeing on the field is experimentation to see who's worth a shit and who isn't.
And do you really think Sark would have left if he thought he'd stock piled a team with PAC 12 championship caliber players?!?! What fucking coach has EVER done that???
Fuck people, let the foundation be built before you decide the house is going to fall down! Too many fucking chicken littles around here.
Not the case.priapism said:Smith needs to get the QB and WRs timing corrected.
Go watch some of Baylor's offense, they have their timing down correct. UW has better athletes than Baylor. -
Solid poonts DJ. I'm not ready to join the lynch mob outside the stadium calling for Smith's head yet. He has been far from perfect this year, but I believe he just doesn't have the talent necessary to compete against the better Pac 12 defenses, the most glaring deficiency being at the QB position. Miles just isn't the guy, and I don't think he ever will be. It's hard to make an accurate judgement of the WR without a QB that can even throw consistently to them. I suspect there is talent there, most recently with Pettis coming on, it's just they aren't getting the consistent looks on the short / intermediate passing game.
So in short, LIPO, see how KJ Karta-Hymen-Samuals and possibly Browning pan out next year. If Smith has a competent QB to work with and can't implement a gameplan that will succeed, then I'll join the mob. -
Thinking about Smith's handling of Ross, one of the most explosive playmakers in the country, makes me want to break something. Unbelievable.
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The one play he was in on he quit on the play.... Not hard to see why they don't trust the guy.Gladstone said:Thinking about Smith's handling of Ross, one of the most explosive playmakers in the country, makes me want to break something. Unbelievable.
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I have this octuple reverse we need you to run. I know it's the only play you get on offense, but it's going to be SUPER cool and totally catch the defense off guard. Oh, and don't mind that Cyler won't sell the fake.
CokeGreaterThanPepsi said:
The one play he was in on he quit on the play.... Not hard to see why they don't trust the guy.Gladstone said:Thinking about Smith's handling of Ross, one of the most explosive playmakers in the country, makes me want to break something. Unbelievable.
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The "process" detailed in the blewprints has too much Mike Riley design influence in it.vadawg said:IMO, the talent level left to Pete is way below what most people believed at the beginning of the year. Pete is trying to figure out who's going to stay with the team in the future and who isn't at this point. Everything I'm seeing on the field is experimentation to see who's worth a shit and who isn't.
And do you really think Sark would have left if he thought he'd stock piled a team with PAC 12 championship caliber players?!?! What fucking coach has EVER done that???
Fuck people, let the foundation be built before you decide the house is going to fall down! Too many fucking chicken littles around here. -
Ross' only offensive asset is his speed ... nothing else about playing WR he does very well.Gladstone said:Thinking about Smith's handling of Ross, one of the most explosive playmakers in the country, makes me want to break something. Unbelievable.
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Manning's only offensive asset is his arm ... nothing else about playing QB he does very well.
