The Program & Fanbase Needs to Take a Long Walk for Perspective
Tequilla
Member Posts: 19,886
The results of the last 2 games over the prior 3 weeks has led to a proverbial wet fart in church to be let out all over Husky Nation.
I see a lot of opinions back and forth ranging from the conclusion that Fisch isn't the guy to constant criticism over play-calling to the thread here that longs for Kalen DeBoer.
Let's be very clear about DeBoer …
- DeBoer was NEVER staying here long-term and he viewed this as a stepping stone job
- His hiring of Sexton AT MINIMUM indicated that he was looking to break the bank on his next contract
- As @HFNY pointed out, Sexton's coaching roster resides primarily in the SEC … you're fooling yourself if you think DeBoer's hiring of Sexton was coincidental OR if you think St. Nick just randomly decided that he was done at Alabama after the season
- I had a conversation with someone within the Athletic Department at around this time last year about the program and that person indicated to me at that time that there was concern about getting a contract extension done with DeBoer …
- This idea that UW low balled DeBoer is also foolish … the original offer PRIOR to UW winning the conference or making the CFP or making it to the Natty was low in hindsight in consideration of what transpired as the year progressed. That said, I have no issue with DeBoer not signing that initial deal and betting on himself or on UW for offering a contract up front that offered security and certainty but could turn into a good deal for them. That's contract negotiation and happens throughout sports on a regular basis.
- The bigger issue is that there's literally ZERO indication that DeBoer was ever seriously considering signing a contract at UW
The timing of when DeBoer left was absolutely disastrous as it pertained to the 2024 UW roster (and beyond). With the move AFTER the closing of the initial transfer portal period, there was absolutely zero opportunity for UW to properly replace the type of attrition that comes with this type of coaching turnover. The choice to hire Fisch was absolutely the best option that was realistically available at the time (can't wait to hear the additional names that made sense). His work at Arizona allowed him to build a recruiting class that he was able to largely bring with him to UW to replace a chunk of the class that followed DeBoer. He had mixed results bringing in the talent that was at Arizona in large part due to threats and commitments made by large Arizona boosters (you can debate how much UW boosters could or should have stepped up better).
Those that look at this UW roster and think that this was some 8+ win team was fooling themselves. By my count, UW has 14 OL on the roster this year. Of those 14, 8 of them are either RS Freshman or true Freshman that are/should be redshirting. It's a little better on the DL but there's a definite lack of difference making talent there. Big picture, that's not a recipe for success.
So let's talking about play calling for a second … where does a below average OL really show up the most? Short yardage and red zone situations where the field is condensed and the ability to win at the LOS is at its most important. Then add into it that in total the roster has 5 TEs on the roster and that includes 1 that was hurt in the 1st game of the season and hasn't played since, 1 that hasn't played all year due to injury, and a 3rd that hasn't played as a true freshman and is redshirting. Again … that's not great. I can go on … but when you're criticizing the production and the play calling, it's probably a good idea to re-read the above a few times … 14 OL and 8 of them are RS or true freshman and of the 5 TEs only 2 of them are effectively healthy and able to play. Good luck with that …
I'll go into this more in a different thread but as it currently stands 2/3 of the roster next year will be sophomores or younger next year. That's going to translate to a lot of youth and uneven play. It's also going to give plenty of opportunity for the players to define which of them are part of the solution and which of them likely won't make it at this level. That's not a bad thing.
But then again, there are a number of people that want to go put a loose fitting band aid on the problem and dramatically hit the transfer portal this offseason … what does that look like? Where would you target? Are there implications to the development of the young players on your roster that makes up 2/3 of it at present?
Lastly, let's say that UW is 6-2 instead of 4-4 … does that change the future at all? Sure, it makes you feel better today and you could definitely argue that the Wazzu and Rutgers game could (or should) have been easily won. In my opinion, that doesn't change what 2025 looks like. It doesn't change that 2026 is most likely the year where UW makes its way back into the CFP discussion.
This was always going to be a 2-3 year rebuild given the circumstances around the coaching change and the limitations on how this roster was built. No matter what happens over the next 4 games and the 6+ weeks until the early signing period of the 2025 class … that isn't changing. The reality is that what happens with the end of the recruiting season and what we do in the transfer portal is more important than anything that happens over the next 4 games.
Comments
This reminds me of some Gilby era posts
Let's not and say we did
I basically agree and in short, it’s 2014 again. Many of us were beyond ready to tarmac Peterman at this point in that season.
Also…I didn’t watch the Iowa or Indiana games (maybe a couple plays each) and I’m in a pretty good mood.👌👌
I clicked expecting an AOG post since he posted last in the thread. Of course it turned out to be Tequilla long (didn;t read in entirety).
Agreed. The UW should have offered deBoer $15 million crowd has LESS than ZERO facts to support their RIDICULOUS claim.
Further, they have offered ABSOLUTELY ZERO PROOF that deBOER would have done ANY better at UW (in 2024) than Fisch has. In fact, you could point to him losing 2 games in the first half of 'Bama schedule (with their roster) is NO BETTTER (likely MUCH WORSE) than Fisch has done at UW with UW's depleted roster.
Year two with Fisch will be better as he has pointed to year two from day one. This is my biggest criticism.
It is what it is.
Despite an old fucker (or two) sitting around in shitty depends opining for the long gone great days of 2023 their pipe dream was NEVER A POSSIBILITY. NEVER.EVER.EVER,
Disagree that it is a three year job. In today's environment, year two or GTFO. PERIOD.
It's a lot easier to just default to blame the Athletic Department and Upper Campus …
You're a broken record like that
Your track record of defending them is embarrassing
Easy to say but it doesn't change the reality of the current situation
There's plenty of area to be critical and there's plenty of area to question the differing strategies that UW can take to get back to being a CFP type contender
Ultimately that's the goal is to get back to the level that we were at 12 months ago …
Whatever quick fix there is to get there is going to cost money and only put a band-aid on some of the underlying fundamental problems
The reality is that the program has largely been gutted by some poor recruiting outcomes under the Lake and DeBoer eras … the balance of recruiting successes under DeBoer followed him to Alabama
So you can be like many of the others that only know bitching and moaning …
I'm far more interested in figuring out the right solution and whatever path to that solution is taken allowing it to have the opportunity to be successful.
Where have I defended the Athletic Department here?
Few were as critical of Jen to the point that many thought I was too harsh on her …
Many claim that Dannen was an ass (he very well may have been) … but I also think that there's a large segment of the Athletic Department that was loyal to Jen and revolted against any kind of change
When Dannen left and they hired Coug Chun I'd argue that that's the definition of a lazy hire and I'm not sure that I've seen anything yet from Chun that suggests he's any less lazy than Jen was
I'll believe that UW is committed to playing in the NIL world when it happens …
I think that when they have the players like they did from 2022 to 2023 they'll pay for it …
I don't think that they understand that paying for recruiting is akin to a company paying for R&D - some will pan out and some won't
There's plenty of low hanging fruit to go after …
But going after what this roster is for this year and trashing Fisch (at this point) ain't the answer
"When Dannen left and they hired Coug Chun I'd argue that that's the definition of a lazy hire and I'm not sure that I've seen anything yet from Chun that suggests he's any less lazy than Jen was"
This.
Also, let us not forget Cuog Chun thought it was a good idea to hire this guy, which should tell you everything you need to know:
You where warning about systemic problems last year while UW stacked 15 wins. Fleenor vibes.
There are ways to win every game.
Fisch has objectively fucked up this year with weird ass play calls.
If Indiana can be hot shit this year, so can UW next year.
DeBoer really screwed UW but there's no use in crying over spilled milk. With the 3 returning OL going into the portal soon after DeBoer left, UW returned 0 starters from the 9 positions on the OL / DL from the 2023. How often does that happen?
What's a known unknown is how the NIL game will change once the $22 million cap comes in next year. Fisch and staff have a few holes in the roster to fill (terrible OL, DL, and LB recruiting for the 2021 and 2022 classes) but the appetite to mimic programs that happen to have a school attached (Ohio State, Oregon, Florida State, etc etc) doesn't seem to be strong.
Jimmy Lake and Deboner were terrible recruiters. Both contributed to this bad year. Deboner will get fired next year after Bama misses the playoffs again. Deboner belongs in the Big 12.
I don't like Brennan Carroll's offense. Teams are clogging up the WR routes, because they already know the route that will be run. That's why the passing game is starting to break. Carroll needs to slightly alter the WR routes every game.
Fisch's special teams are absolutely terrible, this is the most obvious sign of a bad HC. This crap needs to be fixed now.
Rolo is better than Fisch.
Both are shit as fuck, and I wasn't comparing the two. Reading is hard.
You want to take the gloves off Race? You want to get down in a pissing match? Let’s do it. Let’s roll.
I’m getting completely fed up with your hate, negativity, and throwing people under the bus.
Quite frankly Race, I’m very, VERY happy that I don’t know you. I’m quite happy that I don’t lead what appears to be such a pathetic life that is faced with looking for the negativity in every situation. You need to go find something to smile at. Last I checked, it’s summertime. The weather in Seattle seems to be pretty damn good right now – why don’t you go check that out.
You are pretty damn wrong about things. You may think that the amount of time that you keep spewing your views that that you’ve now heard it enough times that you are right. Doesn’t make you right.
You talk about 12-47 like that happened out of the blue sky. I’ve never seen you once suggest that the process of the downfall of this program began well before Emmert arrived.
You want facts? You want truth? Here’s your truth.
Emmert came to the UW prior to the GLORIOUS 1-10 season under Gilby. The year before that (2003) Gilby managed to do enough to get us to 6-6, but that included the debacle at Cal where we gave up 700 yards (or thereabouts). It was an indifferent team that pretty much was at best mediocre. We lost 5 of our last 8, including the blowout to Cal, the blowout to UCLA, and a home loss to NEVADA. Yep, the program was heading in the right direction.
The 2002 season under Slick was another sterling season example that is most remembered for the “Northwest Championship.” That was great. But it hid the fact that going into the “Northwest Championship” we were a 4-5 football team that was pretty much a joke at 1-4 in the conference. In both 2002 and 2003, we finished the season with a 4-4 conference record.
These weren’t good football teams. The trend was heading downhill.
Emmert comes on board and immediately gets sadled with the Gilby 1-10 debacle.
Prior to Emmert coming on board, Babs jumps ship after a decade of mis-management, including allowing the stadium to begin the erosion process.
Throughout 2003, we’re faced with Slick leaving and the subsequent lawsuit(s), Dr. Feelgood, and a whole mess with the softball program and Teresa Wilson.
Now keep in mind the following: ALL THIS HAPPENED BEFORE EMMERT WAS ANYWHERE NEAR BEING THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNIVERSITY OF WASHINGTON.
Things were not in great shape. I think just about everybody knew that.
A search committee is formed to replace Babs. The BOR, upper campus, and the big donor supporters of the school are sick of the egg showing up on their face. They are sick of the country club that Babs ran and the loose way she ran the department – particularly in light of what went on with Slick. They wanted someone prim, proper, and who they could count on would not sully the University name. ENTER TODD TURNER.
Now, this pretty much gets you up to the point where Emmert was hired. Did he have to sign off on the hiring of Turner? Most likely. But whatever.
At this point, Emmert isn’t responsible for the on-field performance of the football program. There is a coach in place. It’s not Emmert’s job to oversee the football program or any other program in the athletic department. That job belongs to Todd Turner. It’s Emmert’s job to monitor the job performance of Todd Turner.
So 1-10 happens. Gilby is canned by Turner (rightfully so). Yes, the program went 1-10. But the actions of those charged with overseeing the program were correct. Turner fired the coach for poor performance. If I’m in Emmert’s shoes, I can’t complain.
Coaching search takes place and Turner has his heart set on Tyrone Willingham. It’s Turner’s hire. It’s not Emmert’s hire. Surely Emmert had to sign off on the hire. That’s fine. You want to throw some blame on him for not having the foresight to negate the hire. That’s fine. But the hire isn’t Emmert’s responsibility. It’s Turner’s responsibility. It’s Emmert’s responsibility to hold Turner accountable for the hire (which he did 3 years later when it was obvious that Tyrone wasn’t the answer).
So Tyrone goes 2-9 the first year after a 1-10 year. Not great. Warning signs start going off, particularly with some poor performance to close games. But it’s the first year of the regime and really hard to get too critical.
The next year the program goes 5-7 and has 2 significant events. The first significant event is the loss of the QB to injury. I think many could argue that without the loss of Isaiah that year, we go 6-6. The second event that was significant was the “suddenly senior” day and the unexplicable loss to Stanford with the most emotionless football team anybody had ever seen. Again, there’s not enough there to fire Tyrone at that point. There are warning signs. There is ground to pretty much tell Tyrone that the following year is an action year where something needs to happen. He’s on a short leash at this point in my opinion.
The following year we lose games in ways that are unexplainable. Blow a huge loss to Arizona – a game we should have never lost. The most ridiculous ending to an Apple Cup I’ve ever seen where a guy was open by 20 yards coming out of a timeout. Blowing a pair of 21 point leads to Hawai’i. It was pretty obvious at this point that things weren’t working. Coaching change was in order. Perhaps an AD change was also in order. The coaching change was blocked and complicated. The AD’s head fell – and rightfully so due to some other issues that he had and such a terrible hire of a head coach.
Prior to the decision to fire Tyrone after 2007, it’s really hard to argue with ANYTHING that Emmert had done with respect to the football program.
I will say that bringing Tyrone back for 2008 was a disasterous mistake. It should have never happened. You want to throw 0-12 on Emmert – I’m all for it. I think if you caught Emmert in a reflective, truthful moment, he would tell you in hindsight that he should have made the move and that it wasn’t worth the carnage of 0-12.
Throw Emmert under the bus for 2008. That’s his responsibility. 2004-2007? Not so much. By all means, please, please tell me where he has responsibility for 2004 and 2007 other than the fact that he’s the University President. Please tell me what specific actions that he did to undermine the program. You aren’t going to find them – they aren’t there.
Your criticism of Emmert is ridiculous. Your criticism of Woodward is just downright comical.
Where has Woodward screwed this program? He has only been responsible for this program in the summer of 2008 in a full-time role. Are you going to hold him to the fire for being the interim AD for the first half of 2008? How is he responsible for anything from 2004-2007 when he wasn’t even involved with the Athletic Department? Talk about conspiracy theories. This may be one of the greatest conspiracy theories I’ve ever seen.
I don’t like losing. I don’t like what I’ve seen the last 5 years. It’s made me sick to my stomach many times over. But unlike you, I can at least take a step back and realize that the genesis of this problem began well before Mark Emmert became President of the University of Washington.
If I spent my time being a “mindless Race Bannon minion,” then I’d be convinced that the only logical explanation for our failures have been Mark Emmert and Scott Woodward.
Quite frankly, that opinion is one of the most idiotic insanely stupid opinions that I’ve ever seen in my life.
I don’t defend the “wrong targets.” There is blame to be thrown Emmert’s way. I readily acknowledge that. But it isn’t his full blame. Babs deserves blame. Gerberding deserves blame. McCormick deserves some blame. Slick deserves some blame. Gilby deserves some blame. Turner deserves some blame. Tyrone deserves some blame. Of the names I’ve listed, only 3 of those names have any timeline that extends into any portion of Emmert’s tenure. That’s less than half of those names.
Quite frankly Race, you are a world class donkey. When I hear people bitch and moan about the people in the State of Washington – you are a crystal example of why people bitch about the State of Washington. When I hear people that bitch about the fans of the University of Washington and what their complaints are, you represent what those complaints are.
In my opinion, you are not good for the University of Washington. You aren’t helping the program. You aren’t helping the University. You are entirely self-serving and a pompous, egotistical jerk.
You are barking up the wrong tree if you are going after me. I’m not naive enough to shove my head so far up my arse to ignore what I am seeing. I don’t think that there is anybody that knows me that would say that I wouldn’t call a spade a spade.
All that paying for and attending games longer than I’ve been alive has done for you is given you a perceived ability to go be a bitter old man. Congrats on that.
Thanks for showing those of us in a younger generation how not to act in 20-30 years when we are in your shoes.
Hmmmmm did UW Oline not bully meat chickens NFL d lineman? Why is UW winning at home (including this weekend) but looks terrible on the road? Why does every position have good players but they get beat by average Buttgers and Coogs?
Fisch doesn't have his reads down.
Oline isn't very good probably but thats the only position that is bottom half of the conference so the idea that Fisch simply can't win with this roster is so soft
TITTT
Fisch built good lines at Arizona in year 3 and the good players got drafted or transfered
I’m not reading all that