They Don’t Make Em Like They Used To

thechatch said:

creepycoug said:

RaceBannon said:

Wouldn't you consider Brady?

I'm a big Elway fan but he wasn't that good in the big ones

Bart Starr too. 5 rings

People forget that Elway won SBs at a time when he was no longer really winning them. At the time he was truly carrying the team, the SB wasn't kind to him.

Agree, tippy top arm talent and mobile and tuff and athletic as all get out. He carried them and was a clutch player. No dispute. But getting it done when it needs to get done? How purely talented were all of Brady's and Montana's teams? I know the latter 49er teams were ridiculous, but I'd argue in '82 Montana was the man and for the rest of them, even with Rice, he was the straw that stirred the drink. Every single player who played with him, Lott included, will tell you the same thing.

The thing that changed Elway's life was Terrell Davis. It is amazing what a legitimate running game can do for a passing game.

These are different players anyway. A lot of football people will tell you that Elway wasn't an elite reader of defenses and that the Bronco offense had to be simplified for him during his first several years in the league. The running around part was in part due to how he played. He settled down later, but there have been other guys who could throw darts and surgically cut you to pieces arguably better than him.

But, yeah, for the big swinging dick QB who can just physically take over a game with his arm and feet and overwhelm you with his jock strap, he was the the top of the mountain IMO and I loved watching him play.

Also has Grays Harbor roots. That's where the Tuff comes from IMO.

Elway played in 1970s era offenses until he had Jim Fassell as his OC in 1993, and he put up his best offensive season ever in year 11.

The offenses he played in the 80s weren’t dumbed down. They were just pretty dumb. By the time he had a line and a cast of weapons around him(Davis, Sharpe, Smith, McCaffrey, Zimmerman, Nalen). He was 35 years old in a league and at a time where surviving past 30 was an accomplishment for any QB.

If Elway had Montana’s offense around him and Bill Walsh calling plays, he would have put up better numbers than anyone not named Marino and pocketed multiple rings before the decade was out.

But the discussion is whether or not he’s the greatest physical QB prospect of all time and the answer is yes.

thechatch said:

creepycoug said:

RaceBannon said:

Wouldn't you consider Brady?

I'm a big Elway fan but he wasn't that good in the big ones

Bart Starr too. 5 rings

People forget that Elway won SBs at a time when he was no longer really winning them. At the time he was truly carrying the team, the SB wasn't kind to him.

Agree, tippy top arm talent and mobile and tuff and athletic as all get out. He carried them and was a clutch player. No dispute. But getting it done when it needs to get done? How purely talented were all of Brady's and Montana's teams? I know the latter 49er teams were ridiculous, but I'd argue in '82 Montana was the man and for the rest of them, even with Rice, he was the straw that stirred the drink. Every single player who played with him, Lott included, will tell you the same thing.

The thing that changed Elway's life was Terrell Davis. It is amazing what a legitimate running game can do for a passing game.

These are different players anyway. A lot of football people will tell you that Elway wasn't an elite reader of defenses and that the Bronco offense had to be simplified for him during his first several years in the league. The running around part was in part due to how he played. He settled down later, but there have been other guys who could throw darts and surgically cut you to pieces arguably better than him.

But, yeah, for the big swinging dick QB who can just physically take over a game with his arm and feet and overwhelm you with his jock strap, he was the the top of the mountain IMO and I loved watching him play.

Also has Grays Harbor roots. That's where the Tuff comes from IMO.

Elway played in 1970s era offenses until he had Jim Fassell as his OC in 1993, and he put up his best offensive season ever in year 11.

The offenses he played in the 80s weren’t dumbed down. They were just pretty dumb. By the time he had a line and a cast of weapons around him(Davis, Sharpe, Smith, McCaffrey, Zimmerman, Nalen). He was 35 years old in a league and at a time where surviving past 30 was an accomplishment for any QB.

If Elway had Montana’s offense around him and Bill Walsh calling plays, he would have put up better numbers than anyone not named Marino and pocketed multiple rings before the decade was out.

But the discussion is whether or not he’s the greatest physical QB prospect of all time and the answer is yes.

thechatch said:

dnc said:

thechatch said:

creepycoug said:

RaceBannon said:

Wouldn't you consider Brady?

I'm a big Elway fan but he wasn't that good in the big ones

Bart Starr too. 5 rings

People forget that Elway won SBs at a time when he was no longer really winning them. At the time he was truly carrying the team, the SB wasn't kind to him.

Agree, tippy top arm talent and mobile and tuff and athletic as all get out. He carried them and was a clutch player. No dispute. But getting it done when it needs to get done? How purely talented were all of Brady's and Montana's teams? I know the latter 49er teams were ridiculous, but I'd argue in '82 Montana was the man and for the rest of them, even with Rice, he was the straw that stirred the drink. Every single player who played with him, Lott included, will tell you the same thing.

The thing that changed Elway's life was Terrell Davis. It is amazing what a legitimate running game can do for a passing game.

These are different players anyway. A lot of football people will tell you that Elway wasn't an elite reader of defenses and that the Bronco offense had to be simplified for him during his first several years in the league. The running around part was in part due to how he played. He settled down later, but there have been other guys who could throw darts and surgically cut you to pieces arguably better than him.

But, yeah, for the big swinging dick QB who can just physically take over a game with his arm and feet and overwhelm you with his jock strap, he was the the top of the mountain IMO and I loved watching him play.

Also has Grays Harbor roots. That's where the Tuff comes from IMO.

Elway played in 1970s era offenses until he had Jim Fassell as his OC in 1993, and he put up his best offensive season ever in year 11.

The offenses he played in the 80s weren’t dumbed down. They were just pretty dumb. By the time he had a line and a cast of weapons around him(Davis, Sharpe, Smith, McCaffrey, Zimmerman, Nalen). He was 35 years old in a league and at a time where surviving past 30 was an accomplishment for any QB.

If Elway had Montana’s offense around him and Bill Walsh calling plays, he would have put up better numbers than anyone not named Marino and pocketed multiple rings before the decade was out.

But the discussion is whether or not he’s the greatest physical QB prospect of all time and the answer is yes.

Hard no, he never had the accuracy to run the West Coast offense like Montana did.

Accuracy is less important than timing in a WCO.

80% of your throws are 5-15 yards downfield.

chuck said:

dnc said:

thechatch said:

dnc said:

thechatch said:

creepycoug said:

RaceBannon said:

Wouldn't you consider Brady?

I'm a big Elway fan but he wasn't that good in the big ones

Bart Starr too. 5 rings

People forget that Elway won SBs at a time when he was no longer really winning them. At the time he was truly carrying the team, the SB wasn't kind to him.

Agree, tippy top arm talent and mobile and tuff and athletic as all get out. He carried them and was a clutch player. No dispute. But getting it done when it needs to get done? How purely talented were all of Brady's and Montana's teams? I know the latter 49er teams were ridiculous, but I'd argue in '82 Montana was the man and for the rest of them, even with Rice, he was the straw that stirred the drink. Every single player who played with him, Lott included, will tell you the same thing.

The thing that changed Elway's life was Terrell Davis. It is amazing what a legitimate running game can do for a passing game.

These are different players anyway. A lot of football people will tell you that Elway wasn't an elite reader of defenses and that the Bronco offense had to be simplified for him during his first several years in the league. The running around part was in part due to how he played. He settled down later, but there have been other guys who could throw darts and surgically cut you to pieces arguably better than him.

But, yeah, for the big swinging dick QB who can just physically take over a game with his arm and feet and overwhelm you with his jock strap, he was the the top of the mountain IMO and I loved watching him play.

Also has Grays Harbor roots. That's where the Tuff comes from IMO.

Elway played in 1970s era offenses until he had Jim Fassell as his OC in 1993, and he put up his best offensive season ever in year 11.

The offenses he played in the 80s weren’t dumbed down. They were just pretty dumb. By the time he had a line and a cast of weapons around him(Davis, Sharpe, Smith, McCaffrey, Zimmerman, Nalen). He was 35 years old in a league and at a time where surviving past 30 was an accomplishment for any QB.

If Elway had Montana’s offense around him and Bill Walsh calling plays, he would have put up better numbers than anyone not named Marino and pocketed multiple rings before the decade was out.

But the discussion is whether or not he’s the greatest physical QB prospect of all time and the answer is yes.

Hard no, he never had the accuracy to run the West Coast offense like Montana did.

Accuracy is less important than timing in a WCO.

80% of your throws are 5-15 yards downfield.

Yes, and because they are close to the LOS they are often in tighter windows, fitting them in between two defenders, etc. Hence accuracy is key.

But you're right, Elway probably didn't have the timing to run the WCO either.

He'd be good in the spread.