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Mariners Baby!
Comments
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Nice 0-7 start for Jarred Kelenic. I almost feel bad for him. I would be desperately hoping to get traded if I were him.
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I'm a fairweather Mariners fan. If they're doing well, I'll get into them. If not, I'm not wasting 650+ hours watching their games.
But every time it looks like they might have a chance to make the playoffs, are on a big win streak, etc... I'll start to pay attention and then they take a huge dump. Every single time going back to my childhood. This year is starting to look the same. -
I am much the same way, but I will say this...Once they are done with the Yanks, they have a very comfortable schedule ahead. They got some complimentary pieces at the deadline, and they got the top available starting pitcher on the market.Fenderbender123 said:I'm a fairweather Mariners fan. If they're doing well, I'll get into them. If not, I'm not wasting 650+ hours watching their games.
But every time it looks like they might have a chance to make the playoffs, are on a big win streak, etc... I'll start to pay attention and then they take a huge dump. Every single time going back to my childhood. This year is starting to look the same.
They aren't as good as the Yankees or Astros, but they don't have to be. They've got 3 big time starters now, and that's what wins in the playoffs.
The season starts September 1st.
Get healthy, get it done...
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Great road trip. Take 3 of 7 from the 2 best teams in the AL and lose Julio and Ty halfway through. Castillo was fucking dominant today.
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He's filthy. The Ms have a glut of nasty, hard throwing right handers.CuntWaffle said:Great road trip. Take 3 of 7 from the 2 best teams in the AL and lose Julio and Ty halfway through. Castillo was fucking dominant today.
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Did it all with Torrens catching, who couldn’t frame a fucking pitch to save his life and CB Bucknor one of the worst home player umpires in the history of the MLB. Look at this “walk” from yesterday:chuck said:
He's filthy. The Ms have a glut of nasty, hard throwing right handers.CuntWaffle said:Great road trip. Take 3 of 7 from the 2 best teams in the AL and lose Julio and Ty halfway through. Castillo was fucking dominant today.
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Even more great stuff by CB
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Yanks seemed to be getting every close call on balls and strikes. Imagine that. Even a guy who NY desperately wanted to trade for, who was the best pitcher available, can't get any respect from the umps against them.
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Heard some duck math. The Mariners have the best record since June 20
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Major league baseball was invented on June 20, 2022.RaceBannon said:Heard some duck math. The Mariners have the best record since June 20
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Hang the banner already!RaceBannon said:Heard some duck math. The Mariners have the best record since June 20
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Castillo is a fucking dog. A couple of gritty wins the past couple days. The September collapse is going to suck!
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He's not a real Mariner.CuntWaffle said:Castillo is a fucking dog. A couple of gritty wins the past couple days. The September collapse is going to suck!
He looks like he should be carrying the Rays to a WS 7 game extra innings loss or something. -
Agreed. Yet here he is dealing.haie said:
He's not a real Mariner.CuntWaffle said:Castillo is a fucking dog. A couple of gritty wins the past couple days. The September collapse is going to suck!
He looks like he should be carrying the Rays to a WS 7 game extra innings loss or something. -
What do you guys think about Haggerty? With Julio out he's been their best player and it hasn't been close. Is he good enough to keep hitting somewhere close to his season numbers? He's like the Adam Frazier we thought we'd get on the good roids. Or is he just the guy @Fishpo31 was talking about who comes out of nowhere, and helps carry the team down the stretch?
Or is he just a nobody on a career hot streak who can only be counted on to eventually quiet down and be forgotten? -
I wouldn't say he's a nobody, he is a lunch-pail journeyman that is taking advantage of hitting down low in the order, and in a line-up where there is virtually no focus on him at all. He is a complimentary player that is right now on fire, and they should (will) ride him for all he's worth.chuck said:What do you guys think about Haggerty? With Julio out he's been their best player and it hasn't been close. Is he good enough to keep hitting somewhere close to his season numbers? He's like the Adam Frazier we thought we'd get on the good roids. Or is he just the guy @Fishpo31 was talking about who comes out of nowhere, and helps carry the team down the stretch?
Or is he just a nobody on a career hot streak who can only be counted on to eventually quiet down and be forgotten?
My question long-term is that he is listed as a SS / 2B / 3B, and he has played 2B / 3B in eight MLB games (out of 84 in his career), none at SS. Also, (I did some research, because I like him), he has not committed an error in the 77 non-DH games in MLB, which is a red flag, defensively, for me. That tells me that he may not have the twitch and/or range to play INF, especially with Frazier struggling early, they never put him in there. He catches what he can get to, but with no errors, that likely means he doesn't get to much.
He doesn't profile as an outfielder power-wise, and maybe defensively, although he has yet to be exposed. IF my observations are accurate, he's not a true "Super Utility" candidate if he can't play short for an extended time (Moore can), and if he can't play short as a fill-in, he's not going to be able to play the other two INF spots. He is plus-plus on the bases, which is big, as long as he gets on base. He's got a great approach for his tools at the plate (line drive-ground ball), but guys like that play in line-ups that mash 1 through 8, and they can carry that, in the world of "Three True Outcomes" that we live in.
I'm pulling for him (I had him for several years at a Christmas camp in Phoenix), and I think he is a very good "Baseball Player", a grinder, but there are reasons that those guys don't become everyday players. He is an "extra" player, and could stick in a PH/PR/defensive replacement role.
I hope I'm wrong, but he's on a helluva run right now...
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After re-reading the above post, let me elaborate on Mr. Haggerty...in putting him in the category of "Baseball Player", for me it means that he has a very high level of baseball intelligence, ie; he knows his skill set, knows situations as far as what is needed in the moment, can execute it, plays multiple positions, and is very athletic.
He has bat-to-ball skills, with below-average power. The game has shifted from valuing high contact, to power (Captain Obvious potd)
He is fast, and knows how and when to run. A lot of guys are fast, and a lot of fast guys are shitty base runners,
He makes good decisions on offense (re: doesn't give away at-bats) and defense (plays hard), and uses his athleticism to his advantage.
There is value to this skill set, to a point...his best tool is the whole package
You can't build a team around these guys...He's a try-hard guy because he has to be. A balls-to-the wall "college guy", max effort. These guys can't take a day off mentally or physically, and over-exposure grinds them down. The hard-90's, SBs,infield hits, diving for everything is his game, and it's not sustainable over 162. The key phrase in talent evaluation is "Does he makes it look easy", which is what the tools guys do (Julio, et.al).
The game isn't built for guys scratching out hits and stealing bases, it is now all about good pitching and 3-run homers. They will put up with 0-20 stretches from guys that can change a game with one swing.
You can comp him to Marco generally (although Marco was a 1st rounder)...he has to be "on" to be successful, if he's off a little, it doesn't end well. Ray, Castillo, Gilbert, Kirby all can miss spots and get guys out, because 96-99...Marco can't.
He doesn't wilt under pressure, and doesn't try to hit "6-run homers", or over-try. There is most definitely a spot on a contending club for a guy like this, but he can't make you go from pretender-to-contender... -
I never meant to suggest that Haggarty was a cornerstone player nor was that what I was asking.
I see him hitting over .300 with decent pn base and power numbers that aren't bad for a second baseman. I see, offense Shively at keast, what seattle needed Adam Frazier to be but with more power and more speed.
So my questions really were: 1) do you think what he's done this season is sustainable over 500 at bats? Has a light bulb come on? 2) is he good enough defensively to be am every day second baseman, given the (probably false) assumption he can produce on offense like he has?
That's really what I meant to ask your opinion on. I recognize that you don't build around. 300 hitters that hit 5 home runs a season. I do think one or two guys like that in your lineup is good to have though. -
I think that if he is a legit 2B candidate, we would have already seen him there, with the early struggles of Frazier and Toro. He could sustain it over 500 ABs, but it’s highly unlikely. Just my opinion, there are a helluva lot more guys that flash and fade, than flash and stick. I’d need to see him at 2B for an extended time to make that call. I will say that if Perry Hill (inf coach) can’t get him out there, it’s not in the cards. Hill is one of the top 2-3 inf guys in the business…
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I will also say this, Chuck...with my background, I am hyper-critical and super conservative on evals of guys. Scouts, in general are the O.G.'s of the "they all suck until they don't" mindset...
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It's by far the hardest sport to scout. Every now and then I look at the first round draft picks. Very few turn out to be anything special. It's a game of failure in every way.Fishpo31 said:I will also say this, Chuck...with my background, I am hyper-critical and super conservative on evals of guys. Scouts, in general are the O.G.'s of the "they all suck until they don't" mindset...
I do think there is some cliche in baseball scouting. A 1B has to hit 30 HR's and stuff along those lines. This has nothing to do with Haggerty, but someone that hits .300 with 10-15 HR is valuable, regardless of position. Obviously, a .300 hitter at catcher is more rare (and valuable) than a LF. -
Haggerty should play everyday on nearly everyday (like he's been doing) until proven otherwise.
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^^^^THIS^^^^. And they will…
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I saw the auto correct or typing disasters in my post and all I could think was how much I appreciated anyone willing to read it. Jesus.Fishpo31 said:I will also say this, Chuck...with my background, I am hyper-critical and super conservative on evals of guys. Scouts, in general are the O.G.'s of the "they all suck until they don't" mindset...
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I think that a lot (if not all) of the profile stuff has gone by the wayside, for the most-part. It used to be power on the corners (INF and OF), speed and defense in the middle. Now, everybody swings out of their ass, and if you can roll the pole, nogaf if you can't run, short-game, or defend.RoadDawg55 said:
It's by far the hardest sport to scout. Every now and then I look at the first round draft picks. Very few turn out to be anything special. It's a game of failure in every way.Fishpo31 said:I will also say this, Chuck...with my background, I am hyper-critical and super conservative on evals of guys. Scouts, in general are the O.G.'s of the "they all suck until they don't" mindset...
I do think there is some cliche in baseball scouting. A 1B has to hit 30 HR's and stuff along those lines. This has nothing to do with Haggerty, but someone that hits .300 with 10-15 HR is valuable, regardless of position. Obviously, a .300 hitter at catcher is more rare (and valuable) than a LF.
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RoadDawg55 said:
It's by far the hardest sport to scout. Every now and then I look at the first round draft picks. Very few turn out to be anything special. It's a game of failure in every way.Fishpo31 said:I will also say this, Chuck...with my background, I am hyper-critical and super conservative on evals of guys. Scouts, in general are the O.G.'s of the "they all suck until they don't" mindset...
I do think there is some cliche in baseball scouting. A 1B has to hit 30 HR's and stuff along those lines. This has nothing to do with Haggerty, but someone that hits .300 with 10-15 HR is valuable, regardless of position. Obviously, a .300 hitter at catcher is more rare (and valuable) than a LF.
Johnny Bench is the gold standard...there are guys as good defensively, but couldn't hit; there are guys as good offensively, that couldn't catch. Piazza was a horrible catcher, but a HOF hitter...Pudge could have been a great catcher if he worked at it, but HOF bat. I know it's nit-picky, but Piazza was a three-hole hitter looking for a position, and Pudge showed greatness with the hand cannon, but he was lazy, wouldn't block and was a shit game caller (Not my opinion, I heard it from multiple sources directly). Receiving and running the game is where they earn their keep.
In the past, they were taking catchers that could hit and moving them to protect the bat. Dale Murphy, Craig Biggio, Joe Mauer, off the top of my head. Now, they are taking middle/corner infielders and teaching them to catch (Will Smith, Austin Barnes, Posey, Realmuto, Nola...).
Good stuff, I love talking about this shit...
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@Fishpo31, speaking of all-time greats, tell us your best Bob Kearney story. Aka "Sarge".Fishpo31 said:RoadDawg55 said:
It's by far the hardest sport to scout. Every now and then I look at the first round draft picks. Very few turn out to be anything special. It's a game of failure in every way.Fishpo31 said:I will also say this, Chuck...with my background, I am hyper-critical and super conservative on evals of guys. Scouts, in general are the O.G.'s of the "they all suck until they don't" mindset...
I do think there is some cliche in baseball scouting. A 1B has to hit 30 HR's and stuff along those lines. This has nothing to do with Haggerty, but someone that hits .300 with 10-15 HR is valuable, regardless of position. Obviously, a .300 hitter at catcher is more rare (and valuable) than a LF.
Johnny Bench is the gold standard...there are guys as good defensively, but couldn't hit; there are guys as good offensively, that couldn't catch. Piazza was a horrible catcher, but a HOF hitter...Pudge could have been a great catcher if he worked at it, but HOF bat. I know it's nit-picky, but Piazza was a three-hole hitter looking for a position, and Pudge showed greatness with the hand cannon, but he was lazy, wouldn't block and was a shit game caller (Not my opinion, I heard it from multiple sources directly). Receiving and running the game is where they earn their keep.
In the past, they were taking catchers that could hit and moving them to protect the bat. Dale Murphy, Craig Biggio, Joe Mauer, off the top of my head. Now, they are taking middle/corner infielders and teaching them to catch (Will Smith, Austin Barnes, Posey, Realmuto, Nola...).
Good stuff, I love talking about this shit... -
Sarge does not make my list of "all-time greats", LOL...from memory: no hit, shit game caller / receiver, plus-plus arm. The classic example of the statement that "The fastest way to the big leagues is behind the plate"...met him once or twice, seemed like a good guy. One of my scout buddies played with him in Seattle and Oakland, and told me "He's a great guy to have a beer with, but nobody wanted to throw to him". Today, with that skill set, they would probably turn him into a pitcher.DerekJohnson said:
@Fishpo31, speaking of all-time greats, tell us your best Bob Kearney story. Aka "Sarge".Fishpo31 said:RoadDawg55 said:
It's by far the hardest sport to scout. Every now and then I look at the first round draft picks. Very few turn out to be anything special. It's a game of failure in every way.Fishpo31 said:I will also say this, Chuck...with my background, I am hyper-critical and super conservative on evals of guys. Scouts, in general are the O.G.'s of the "they all suck until they don't" mindset...
I do think there is some cliche in baseball scouting. A 1B has to hit 30 HR's and stuff along those lines. This has nothing to do with Haggerty, but someone that hits .300 with 10-15 HR is valuable, regardless of position. Obviously, a .300 hitter at catcher is more rare (and valuable) than a LF.
Johnny Bench is the gold standard...there are guys as good defensively, but couldn't hit; there are guys as good offensively, that couldn't catch. Piazza was a horrible catcher, but a HOF hitter...Pudge could have been a great catcher if he worked at it, but HOF bat. I know it's nit-picky, but Piazza was a three-hole hitter looking for a position, and Pudge showed greatness with the hand cannon, but he was lazy, wouldn't block and was a shit game caller (Not my opinion, I heard it from multiple sources directly). Receiving and running the game is where they earn their keep.
In the past, they were taking catchers that could hit and moving them to protect the bat. Dale Murphy, Craig Biggio, Joe Mauer, off the top of my head. Now, they are taking middle/corner infielders and teaching them to catch (Will Smith, Austin Barnes, Posey, Realmuto, Nola...).
Good stuff, I love talking about this shit... -
Fishpo, do the yips really exist or is every guy that has had those type of incidents a mentally weak pussy?
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They are real, and they are NOT spectacular...they come out of nowhere, and either eventually leave, or not. There are two methods to deal with them, neither of which work...talk about it, or don't talk about it. Try to "work" on it, or be silent...If I had a cure, I'd be responding to this from a palatial estate or private island...RoadDawg55 said:Fishpo, do the yips really exist or is every guy that has had those type of incidents a mentally weak pussy?
The worst one I've been a part of was about 15 years ago...I had a JUCO catcher that had a plus-plus arm, very good bat, receiver, everything you look for. Certainly D1, and a probable draft pick. He could not throw the ball back to the pitcher...Throw to the bases, he was great. We tried everything we knew, and it didn't work. I would show up at 7AM, and he'd have hopped the fence with a bucket, put a screen with target up on the mound, and spent a lot of time in CF recovering balls.
Mike Ivey (google him) was the first pick in the draft IIRC, in the late 60's, for the Padres. I was told that in extended spring training, after signing, he was catching a coach who was throwing live BP, behind an L-Screen. A couple of his throwbacks hit the screen, and the coach went off on him, in front of everyone, and it was over. Never recovered, played some 1B / DH in the big leagues, and never caught again.
IDK if mentally weak is correct, but it could be just not trusting yourself, which some may classify as being mentally weak...
