Libtards are retarded and live in their own fantasy world
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The problem with public education isn't anything to do with teacher salaries. It's the fact that we dumb things down to the point that everybody can get a degree just by showing up to class and turning a couple things in. There is no accountability. There is no one there to push the students who need/want to be pushed (the smart ones). It's slowed down to the C student's level. Always. It's like that from kindergarten all the way through college.
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The problems is more to do with pensions (guaranteed benefits rather than 401k guaranteed contributions) and expensive health care benefits. Throw in that it's very difficult to fire bad teachers due to union rules and that seniority first and foremost decides how much they are paid, and we have a very rotten system.
But yes, I agree that the dumbing down and lack of accountability is also a problem.PurpleJ said:The problem with public education isn't anything to do with teacher salaries. It's the fact that we dumb things down to the point that everybody can get a degree just by showing up to class and turning a couple things in. There is no accountability. There is no one there to push the students who need/want to be pushed (the smart ones). It's slowed down to the C student's level. Always. It's like that from kindergarten all the way through college.
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I agree.
All I'm saying is that you can change the unions, the pensions, and the pay all you want. That won't change the fundamental flaw in our way of thinking about education. We teach students that as long as they hand in their work, they will succeed. We teach them to be workers, not thinkers. We teach them to follow rules, rather than question the logic behind them. The value is placed on the ability to memorize facts, when we live in a world where those facts can be found at the press of a button. Critical thinking is an afterthought. That's the crux of the issue, in my opinion. -
I agree as well. But the unions don't mind the kids being workers and not thinkers because they look better when their students move through the system. Most simply don't give a fuck as long as they follow the rules.
Of course, if there weren't so many children born out of wedlock and raised by single mothers, there would be more two parent households who have the time to help them with their homework and make them think critically and logically.
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Causation?HFNY said:I agree as well. But the unions don't mind the kids being workers and not thinkers because they look better when their students move through the system. Most simply don't give a fuck as long as they follow the rules.
Of course, if there weren't so many children born out of wedlock and raised by single mothers, there would be more two parent households who have the time to help them with their homework and make them think critically and logically.
I'll bet you born again Christians have the lowest percentage of single parents among any group of Americans. And I'll bet you they have the worst critical thinking skills. Other than that great point. -
It's not a required government function.TierbsHsotBoobs said:
When it's a required government function, you can't use the free market alone to determine their salaries.CheersWestDawg said:Maybe teachers should get paid what the free market says they ought to be paid.
You know, rather than by some bullshit government chart.
The fact that schools can pay teachers what they do does indicate that there are plenty of teachers available and no need to pay them more though.
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They are paid pretty close to market rate. Maybe a bit more because of the unions.
He's what people who think teachers should be paid a lot more fail to realize, if teachers could make 200k a year, most current teachers would be out of a job because much better applicants who are currently making 200k in other professions, would take their jobs. They supply of better qualified applicants would increase, and the social studies teacher who was a C student and choose teaching because it was an easier degree than engineering or business would not hired as a teacher at that pay rate.
Teaching pays what it does because it is comparatively and easy job, it doesn't take a particularly bright or skilled person to get through the schooling, and there is a large labor supply of people willing to do the job at the current rates.
I actually had someone get pissed off at me at a party. They were going on about teacher salaries and I said two things 1) what were teacher salaries when you made the choice to become one? You knew what you were signing up for. 2) be careful what you wish for because if the salaries get high enough, people like me will take your job. They weren't amused at hearing the truth. -
I hope you don't call yourself a Christian with that commentallpurpleallgold said:
Causation?HFNY said:I agree as well. But the unions don't mind the kids being workers and not thinkers because they look better when their students move through the system. Most simply don't give a fuck as long as they follow the rules.
Of course, if there weren't so many children born out of wedlock and raised by single mothers, there would be more two parent households who have the time to help them with their homework and make them think critically and logically.
I'll bet you born again Christians have the lowest percentage of single parents among any group of Americans. And I'll bet you they have the worst critical thinking skills. Other than that great point. -
That's the whole point, to get better qualified applicants. Of course that doesn't jibe with the teaching union line, but most reformers are willing to overlook that in order to get better teachers in the schools.MikeDamone said:They are paid pretty close to market rate. Maybe a bit more because of the unions.
He's what people who think teachers should be paid a lot more fail to realize, if teachers could make 200k a year, most current teachers would be out of a job because much better applicants who are currently making 200k in other professions, would take their jobs. They supply of better qualified applicants would increase, and the social studies teacher who was a C student and choose teaching because it was an easier degree than engineering or business would not hired as a teacher at that pay rate.
Teaching pays what it does because it is comparatively and easy job, it doesn't take a particularly bright or skilled person to get through the schooling, and there is a large labor supply of people willing to do the job at the current rates.
I actually had someone get pissed off at me at a party. They were going on about teacher salaries and I said two things 1) what were teacher salaries when you made the choice to become one? You knew what you were signing up for. 2) be careful what you wish for because if the salaries get high enough, people like me will take your job. They weren't amused at hearing the truth.
What would happen though is that current teachers could also go back to school in order to become better qualified, rising seas lifts all boats and all that. -
You pay more, you get more. As it's stated, you aren't going to have an elite group of applicants running to make 35k a year. They could do that managing mcdonalds. A few in this thread are completely retarded if you think that teachers "have no skills". Just as any job, there are incredibly bad individuals in the profession. There are also quite a few brilliant teachers. It's not a job anyone would do for 100k b/c some people(myself included) couldn't handle dealing with kids all day. I would want to shoot myself.
Read a few studies on the difference a good teacher makes in a childs development vs a poor teacher and then spout off. You know, a few places like harvard and stanford do such studies and are easily accessible for your reading pleasure.
One of the biggest problems with teaching and student development is still the parents. People take their kids to class and assume they will somehow learn everything in a short amount of time without any further work. Sadly, many families don't prioritize reading, learning and anything else at home and merely toss their kid a xbox controller. Nor do many people want to admit that not all kids have the capacity to be rock stars no matter what the learning environment.
If you want a competitive field to drive out some of the idiots, then pay a good wage. It actually does help society when highly qualified and motivated employees are driving youth in the proper direction. I highly doubt some of you would pay for your suit at Old navy and expect $3k suit quality. 5 million is ridiculous, but paying people 30k is equally comical.
