General Bidness Etiquette Query

This is a good reminder that I probably need to respond faster. Of course it goes both ways, where I can go a week or more without receiving a response. I don't always expect one due to timezones, different work schedules, unknown holidays, people working reduced hours due to Vid.

In all seriousness, though, this has been going on for some time. I'm just a lowly grunt at a big company, so not sure about the degradation of etiquette in high level business settings, but I can speak a LOT to dealing with construction/service trades, as I've been doing an awful lot of that since buying my crumbling-to-pieces house and rebuilding my burned-down shop.

It absolutely amazes me how rarely a contractor will even call back at all, let alone be prompt. Rarely will somebody show up on time and be professional. And a lot of times, when they do show up, the bid is stupid high. It's a seller's market right now for construction/industrial services, and the amount of respect paid to you, the customer, reflects this. They'll get to you when they get to you, and you'll be as thankful for their benevolence as you would if they were Kirk Herbstreit. And you'll take their $6500 bid for eight man-hours of plumbing and $100 in materials and you'll like it.

More recently, I've been hunting auctions, trying to pick the carcass of a newly deceased machine shop for a cheap VMC. As recently as a couple of years ago, even a 15 year old machine like this would typically sell for at least $20K. Now they can be found at auction for under half that. The problem? Rigging and transporting 11,000 lbs. of cast iron and sensitive electronics isn't cheap. As in, costs more than the machine "not cheap" in some cases. I've requested rigging quotes from six different outfits in the last month. ONE has gotten back to me, and with that one it's been three days and counting waiting for a simple bid. What do they care, though, when the gal tells me right there on the phone that they're so busy moving shit around from dead shops right now that they can get to it when they get to it and charge whatever they want?

Not to ramble on like a woman at a board meeting, but my theory is that we're seeing the delayed effect of the transition from phone to text/email communication finally hitting. People are now used to a lack of immediacy in communication. It's normal. In the days when you had to pick up the phone or meet face to face, people were used to communicating in real time. Now, it's a text message or email, and you can get to it when you get to it. This has finally trickled up to business, as businesses are increasingly staffed/owned by people who grew up knowing nothing else. I have a distant millennial friend with whom I communicate only via IM. He gives me shit all the time for typing things like, "I'm sorry it took so long to get back to you" or, "I'm busy right now, but I'll get back to you in a bit." Or even, "I've gotta run, I'll catch you later."

The response is always something like, "Dude: you don't have to say that. It's IM. I'm not sitting here waiting for your response or something."

I think that's the business-to-customer or even business-to-business relationship in a nutshell these days.

A fuck-off and a NYBE from DDJ? That's the kind of sacrifice one must make in the pursuit of shitposting gold.

creepycoug said:

1to392831weretaken said:

In all seriousness, though, this has been going on for some time. I'm just a lowly grunt at a big company, so not sure about the degradation of etiquette in high level business settings, but I can speak a LOT to dealing with construction/service trades, as I've been doing an awful lot of that since buying my crumbling-to-pieces house and rebuilding my burned-down shop.

It absolutely amazes me how rarely a contractor will even call back at all, let alone be prompt. Rarely will somebody show up on time and be professional. And a lot of times, when they do show up, the bid is stupid high. It's a seller's market right now for construction/industrial services, and the amount of respect paid to you, the customer, reflects this. They'll get to you when they get to you, and you'll be as thankful for their benevolence as you would if they were Kirk Herbstreit. And you'll take their $6500 bid for eight man-hours of plumbing and $100 in materials and you'll like it.

More recently, I've been hunting auctions, trying to pick the carcass of a newly deceased machine shop for a cheap VMC. As recently as a couple of years ago, even a 15 year old machine like this would typically sell for at least $20K. Now they can be found at auction for under half that. The problem? Rigging and transporting 11,000 lbs. of cast iron and sensitive electronics isn't cheap. As in, costs more than the machine "not cheap" in some cases. I've requested rigging quotes from six different outfits in the last month. ONE has gotten back to me, and with that one it's been three days and counting waiting for a simple bid. What do they care, though, when the gal tells me right there on the phone that they're so busy moving shit around from dead shops right now that they can get to it when they get to it and charge whatever they want?

Not to ramble on like a woman at a board meeting, but my theory is that we're seeing the delayed effect of the transition from phone to text/email communication finally hitting. People are now used to a lack of immediacy in communication. It's normal. In the days when you had to pick up the phone or meet face to face, people were used to communicating in real time. Now, it's a text message or email, and you can get to it when you get to it. This has finally trickled up to business, as businesses are increasingly staffed/owned by people who grew up knowing nothing else. I have a distant millennial friend with whom I communicate only via IM. He gives me shit all the time for typing things like, "I'm sorry it took so long to get back to you" or, "I'm busy right now, but I'll get back to you in a bit." Or even, "I've gotta run, I'll catch you later."

The response is always something like, "Dude: you don't have to say that. It's IM. I'm not sitting here waiting for your response or something."

I think that's the business-to-customer or even business-to-business relationship in a nutshell these days.

The interesting thing about this is the other side of the coin: with millenials, ie, my kids, they've spent a lifetime with their Gen X or Boomer parents telling them to "get you fucking nose out of that fucking phone!"

So, now, my oldest daughter makes me proud when I text or e-mail her and she doesn't immediately respond, because she's a grown-up and doesn't stare are her phone all day.

And when I'm not the one trying to get a hold of her, I'm actually happy about this.

I'm old school: There's still a microphone and a speaker on my phone, and I use them all the time. Particularly when calling my dad. Then again, with how I'm prone to bloviate, I think my thumbs would permanently be in splints if I tried keeping it all to text.

creepycoug said:

1to392831weretaken said:

creepycoug said:

1to392831weretaken said:

In all seriousness, though, this has been going on for some time. I'm just a lowly grunt at a big company, so not sure about the degradation of etiquette in high level business settings, but I can speak a LOT to dealing with construction/service trades, as I've been doing an awful lot of that since buying my crumbling-to-pieces house and rebuilding my burned-down shop.

It absolutely amazes me how rarely a contractor will even call back at all, let alone be prompt. Rarely will somebody show up on time and be professional. And a lot of times, when they do show up, the bid is stupid high. It's a seller's market right now for construction/industrial services, and the amount of respect paid to you, the customer, reflects this. They'll get to you when they get to you, and you'll be as thankful for their benevolence as you would if they were Kirk Herbstreit. And you'll take their $6500 bid for eight man-hours of plumbing and $100 in materials and you'll like it.

More recently, I've been hunting auctions, trying to pick the carcass of a newly deceased machine shop for a cheap VMC. As recently as a couple of years ago, even a 15 year old machine like this would typically sell for at least $20K. Now they can be found at auction for under half that. The problem? Rigging and transporting 11,000 lbs. of cast iron and sensitive electronics isn't cheap. As in, costs more than the machine "not cheap" in some cases. I've requested rigging quotes from six different outfits in the last month. ONE has gotten back to me, and with that one it's been three days and counting waiting for a simple bid. What do they care, though, when the gal tells me right there on the phone that they're so busy moving shit around from dead shops right now that they can get to it when they get to it and charge whatever they want?

Not to ramble on like a woman at a board meeting, but my theory is that we're seeing the delayed effect of the transition from phone to text/email communication finally hitting. People are now used to a lack of immediacy in communication. It's normal. In the days when you had to pick up the phone or meet face to face, people were used to communicating in real time. Now, it's a text message or email, and you can get to it when you get to it. This has finally trickled up to business, as businesses are increasingly staffed/owned by people who grew up knowing nothing else. I have a distant millennial friend with whom I communicate only via IM. He gives me shit all the time for typing things like, "I'm sorry it took so long to get back to you" or, "I'm busy right now, but I'll get back to you in a bit." Or even, "I've gotta run, I'll catch you later."

The response is always something like, "Dude: you don't have to say that. It's IM. I'm not sitting here waiting for your response or something."

I think that's the business-to-customer or even business-to-business relationship in a nutshell these days.

The interesting thing about this is the other side of the coin: with millenials, ie, my kids, they've spent a lifetime with their Gen X or Boomer parents telling them to "get you fucking nose out of that fucking phone!"

So, now, my oldest daughter makes me proud when I text or e-mail her and she doesn't immediately respond, because she's a grown-up and doesn't stare are her phone all day.

And when I'm not the one trying to get a hold of her, I'm actually happy about this.

I'm old school: There's still a microphone and a speaker on my phone, and I use them all the time. Particularly when calling my dad. Then again, with how I'm prone to bloviate, I think my thumbs would permanently be in splints if I tried keeping it all to text.

with millenials, answering the phone is about as natural to them as working in the same place your whole life. it's just not what they do.

I struggled with this for quite a while. I call people, and they email or text responses. I call them again, same thing. It drove me nuts, when I call someone, I'm looking for a response (or the prep for one) NOW, not on "their time". I once counted the days between having face-to-face / phone convo with my boss...a little over six weeks...his office was 100 feet from mine.

Doog_de_Jour said:

I’m about to go on a rant here...

This is more than a business issue. Our whole society has normalized bad manners.

My company a year ago filled a position (and this isn’t just some low level job either) and DAY ONE the candidate doesn’t show. No call, no email, no text - nothing. We assume something tragic has happened (car accident, death in family, etc.). Multiple attempts to reach him to offer support, etc. go unanswered. A few days later a colleague who had added him on LinkedIn saw he had updated his profile to another position with another company.

We were ghosted.

Apparently this type behavior is becoming more common, and it has financial repercussions. For example, a supplier takes their time confirming receipt of your purchase order and estimated delivery date, it could have a big ripple effect.

People seem to think manners are some stuffy relic of the Victorian era, but in reality it’s the glue that holds this shit show together.

I say 24 hours/one business day is a reasonable expectation for a response, even in the COVID era. If they don’t get back right away and you’ve tried reaching out to them and STILL get crickets, well, that’s the professional equivalent of “he’s just not that into you” and start planning your exit strategy. In most cases you’ll be able to find a suitable replacement.

My primary goal of automating most of our shit was because finding like low level office workers is about the worst thing in the world.

I feel like a bit of a dick because I left a position open for like two weeks even after I hired this guy and he'd been there for a week. But just in case he didn't show up lol

Fishpo31 said:

creepycoug said:

1to392831weretaken said:

creepycoug said:

1to392831weretaken said:

In all seriousness, though, this has been going on for some time. I'm just a lowly grunt at a big company, so not sure about the degradation of etiquette in high level business settings, but I can speak a LOT to dealing with construction/service trades, as I've been doing an awful lot of that since buying my crumbling-to-pieces house and rebuilding my burned-down shop.

It absolutely amazes me how rarely a contractor will even call back at all, let alone be prompt. Rarely will somebody show up on time and be professional. And a lot of times, when they do show up, the bid is stupid high. It's a seller's market right now for construction/industrial services, and the amount of respect paid to you, the customer, reflects this. They'll get to you when they get to you, and you'll be as thankful for their benevolence as you would if they were Kirk Herbstreit. And you'll take their $6500 bid for eight man-hours of plumbing and $100 in materials and you'll like it.

More recently, I've been hunting auctions, trying to pick the carcass of a newly deceased machine shop for a cheap VMC. As recently as a couple of years ago, even a 15 year old machine like this would typically sell for at least $20K. Now they can be found at auction for under half that. The problem? Rigging and transporting 11,000 lbs. of cast iron and sensitive electronics isn't cheap. As in, costs more than the machine "not cheap" in some cases. I've requested rigging quotes from six different outfits in the last month. ONE has gotten back to me, and with that one it's been three days and counting waiting for a simple bid. What do they care, though, when the gal tells me right there on the phone that they're so busy moving shit around from dead shops right now that they can get to it when they get to it and charge whatever they want?

Not to ramble on like a woman at a board meeting, but my theory is that we're seeing the delayed effect of the transition from phone to text/email communication finally hitting. People are now used to a lack of immediacy in communication. It's normal. In the days when you had to pick up the phone or meet face to face, people were used to communicating in real time. Now, it's a text message or email, and you can get to it when you get to it. This has finally trickled up to business, as businesses are increasingly staffed/owned by people who grew up knowing nothing else. I have a distant millennial friend with whom I communicate only via IM. He gives me shit all the time for typing things like, "I'm sorry it took so long to get back to you" or, "I'm busy right now, but I'll get back to you in a bit." Or even, "I've gotta run, I'll catch you later."

The response is always something like, "Dude: you don't have to say that. It's IM. I'm not sitting here waiting for your response or something."

I think that's the business-to-customer or even business-to-business relationship in a nutshell these days.

The interesting thing about this is the other side of the coin: with millenials, ie, my kids, they've spent a lifetime with their Gen X or Boomer parents telling them to "get you fucking nose out of that fucking phone!"

So, now, my oldest daughter makes me proud when I text or e-mail her and she doesn't immediately respond, because she's a grown-up and doesn't stare are her phone all day.

And when I'm not the one trying to get a hold of her, I'm actually happy about this.

I'm old school: There's still a microphone and a speaker on my phone, and I use them all the time. Particularly when calling my dad. Then again, with how I'm prone to bloviate, I think my thumbs would permanently be in splints if I tried keeping it all to text.

with millenials, answering the phone is about as natural to them as working in the same place your whole life. it's just not what they do.

I struggled with this for quite a while. I call people, and they email or text responses. I call them again, same thing. It drove me nuts, when I call someone, I'm looking for a response (or the prep for one) NOW, not on "their time". I once counted the days between having face-to-face / phone convo with my boss...a little over six weeks...his office was 100 feet from mine.

See, I think the pandering society has done for Millennials has to stop. Not calling someone back is rude, end of story. Your story is a perfect example as to why. I’m a Xennial, so I’m not unsympathetic as to why younger generations prefer texts or email, but you lose so many vital parts of communication (tone, facial expressions, body language, vocal cues like laughter).

It’s OK that we all have different ways of communicating, but it has to be a two way street. I rarely hear about Millenials/Gen Z’ers trying to figure out the expectations for their older counterparts.

I was taught at some point 10 or 15 years ago the 24 hour rule. I try to adhere by it.

I'm tired of these faggots who take 3-5 business days to respond and use the China Virus as an excuse. DIAF.

Pitchfork51 said:

Doog_de_Jour said:

Fishpo31 said:

creepycoug said:

1to392831weretaken said:

creepycoug said:

1to392831weretaken said:

In all seriousness, though, this has been going on for some time. I'm just a lowly grunt at a big company, so not sure about the degradation of etiquette in high level business settings, but I can speak a LOT to dealing with construction/service trades, as I've been doing an awful lot of that since buying my crumbling-to-pieces house and rebuilding my burned-down shop.

It absolutely amazes me how rarely a contractor will even call back at all, let alone be prompt. Rarely will somebody show up on time and be professional. And a lot of times, when they do show up, the bid is stupid high. It's a seller's market right now for construction/industrial services, and the amount of respect paid to you, the customer, reflects this. They'll get to you when they get to you, and you'll be as thankful for their benevolence as you would if they were Kirk Herbstreit. And you'll take their $6500 bid for eight man-hours of plumbing and $100 in materials and you'll like it.

More recently, I've been hunting auctions, trying to pick the carcass of a newly deceased machine shop for a cheap VMC. As recently as a couple of years ago, even a 15 year old machine like this would typically sell for at least $20K. Now they can be found at auction for under half that. The problem? Rigging and transporting 11,000 lbs. of cast iron and sensitive electronics isn't cheap. As in, costs more than the machine "not cheap" in some cases. I've requested rigging quotes from six different outfits in the last month. ONE has gotten back to me, and with that one it's been three days and counting waiting for a simple bid. What do they care, though, when the gal tells me right there on the phone that they're so busy moving shit around from dead shops right now that they can get to it when they get to it and charge whatever they want?

Not to ramble on like a woman at a board meeting, but my theory is that we're seeing the delayed effect of the transition from phone to text/email communication finally hitting. People are now used to a lack of immediacy in communication. It's normal. In the days when you had to pick up the phone or meet face to face, people were used to communicating in real time. Now, it's a text message or email, and you can get to it when you get to it. This has finally trickled up to business, as businesses are increasingly staffed/owned by people who grew up knowing nothing else. I have a distant millennial friend with whom I communicate only via IM. He gives me shit all the time for typing things like, "I'm sorry it took so long to get back to you" or, "I'm busy right now, but I'll get back to you in a bit." Or even, "I've gotta run, I'll catch you later."

The response is always something like, "Dude: you don't have to say that. It's IM. I'm not sitting here waiting for your response or something."

I think that's the business-to-customer or even business-to-business relationship in a nutshell these days.

The interesting thing about this is the other side of the coin: with millenials, ie, my kids, they've spent a lifetime with their Gen X or Boomer parents telling them to "get you fucking nose out of that fucking phone!"

So, now, my oldest daughter makes me proud when I text or e-mail her and she doesn't immediately respond, because she's a grown-up and doesn't stare are her phone all day.

And when I'm not the one trying to get a hold of her, I'm actually happy about this.

I'm old school: There's still a microphone and a speaker on my phone, and I use them all the time. Particularly when calling my dad. Then again, with how I'm prone to bloviate, I think my thumbs would permanently be in splints if I tried keeping it all to text.

with millenials, answering the phone is about as natural to them as working in the same place your whole life. it's just not what they do.

I struggled with this for quite a while. I call people, and they email or text responses. I call them again, same thing. It drove me nuts, when I call someone, I'm looking for a response (or the prep for one) NOW, not on "their time". I once counted the days between having face-to-face / phone convo with my boss...a little over six weeks...his office was 100 feet from mine.

See, I think the pandering society has done for Millennials has to stop. Not calling someone back is rude, end of story. Your story is a perfect example as to why. I’m a Xennial, so I’m not unsympathetic as to why younger generations prefer texts or email, but you lose so many vital parts of communication (tone, facial expressions, body language, vocal cues like laughter).

It’s OK that we all have different ways of communicating, but it has to be a two way street. I rarely hear about Millenials/Gen Z’ers trying to figure out the expectations for their older counterparts.

To be honest most corporations can absolutely suck it. Before china and the Dems unleashed the plague the workers finally had the leverage and I found it quite funny that employers complained about getting ghosted.

I'm also a big fan of people leaving with no notice if they are in a job that underpays.

Millennials have been brutalized economically so the boomers can suck it when they complain about this shit imo.
(This isn't specifically about you and your point just overall I'm just thinking about the employer/employee contract lately )

Employers broke the contract of respect and loyalty long ago so they get to experience the consequences.

I get that. Many of the articles I read about this phenomenon made the similar points. How many of us have tried to follow up with HR about a pending job application only to not hear anything back? So yeah, what goes around comes around.

dflea said:

Pitchfork51 said:

Doog_de_Jour said:

Fishpo31 said:

creepycoug said:

1to392831weretaken said:

creepycoug said:

1to392831weretaken said:

In all seriousness, though, this has been going on for some time. I'm just a lowly grunt at a big company, so not sure about the degradation of etiquette in high level business settings, but I can speak a LOT to dealing with construction/service trades, as I've been doing an awful lot of that since buying my crumbling-to-pieces house and rebuilding my burned-down shop.

It absolutely amazes me how rarely a contractor will even call back at all, let alone be prompt. Rarely will somebody show up on time and be professional. And a lot of times, when they do show up, the bid is stupid high. It's a seller's market right now for construction/industrial services, and the amount of respect paid to you, the customer, reflects this. They'll get to you when they get to you, and you'll be as thankful for their benevolence as you would if they were Kirk Herbstreit. And you'll take their $6500 bid for eight man-hours of plumbing and $100 in materials and you'll like it.

More recently, I've been hunting auctions, trying to pick the carcass of a newly deceased machine shop for a cheap VMC. As recently as a couple of years ago, even a 15 year old machine like this would typically sell for at least $20K. Now they can be found at auction for under half that. The problem? Rigging and transporting 11,000 lbs. of cast iron and sensitive electronics isn't cheap. As in, costs more than the machine "not cheap" in some cases. I've requested rigging quotes from six different outfits in the last month. ONE has gotten back to me, and with that one it's been three days and counting waiting for a simple bid. What do they care, though, when the gal tells me right there on the phone that they're so busy moving shit around from dead shops right now that they can get to it when they get to it and charge whatever they want?

Not to ramble on like a woman at a board meeting, but my theory is that we're seeing the delayed effect of the transition from phone to text/email communication finally hitting. People are now used to a lack of immediacy in communication. It's normal. In the days when you had to pick up the phone or meet face to face, people were used to communicating in real time. Now, it's a text message or email, and you can get to it when you get to it. This has finally trickled up to business, as businesses are increasingly staffed/owned by people who grew up knowing nothing else. I have a distant millennial friend with whom I communicate only via IM. He gives me shit all the time for typing things like, "I'm sorry it took so long to get back to you" or, "I'm busy right now, but I'll get back to you in a bit." Or even, "I've gotta run, I'll catch you later."

The response is always something like, "Dude: you don't have to say that. It's IM. I'm not sitting here waiting for your response or something."

I think that's the business-to-customer or even business-to-business relationship in a nutshell these days.

The interesting thing about this is the other side of the coin: with millenials, ie, my kids, they've spent a lifetime with their Gen X or Boomer parents telling them to "get you fucking nose out of that fucking phone!"

So, now, my oldest daughter makes me proud when I text or e-mail her and she doesn't immediately respond, because she's a grown-up and doesn't stare are her phone all day.

And when I'm not the one trying to get a hold of her, I'm actually happy about this.

I'm old school: There's still a microphone and a speaker on my phone, and I use them all the time. Particularly when calling my dad. Then again, with how I'm prone to bloviate, I think my thumbs would permanently be in splints if I tried keeping it all to text.

with millenials, answering the phone is about as natural to them as working in the same place your whole life. it's just not what they do.

I struggled with this for quite a while. I call people, and they email or text responses. I call them again, same thing. It drove me nuts, when I call someone, I'm looking for a response (or the prep for one) NOW, not on "their time". I once counted the days between having face-to-face / phone convo with my boss...a little over six weeks...his office was 100 feet from mine.

See, I think the pandering society has done for Millennials has to stop. Not calling someone back is rude, end of story. Your story is a perfect example as to why. I’m a Xennial, so I’m not unsympathetic as to why younger generations prefer texts or email, but you lose so many vital parts of communication (tone, facial expressions, body language, vocal cues like laughter).

It’s OK that we all have different ways of communicating, but it has to be a two way street. I rarely hear about Millenials/Gen Z’ers trying to figure out the expectations for their older counterparts.

To be honest most corporations can absolutely suck it. Before china and the Dems unleashed the plague the workers finally had the leverage and I found it quite funny that employers complained about getting ghosted.

I'm also a big fan of people leaving with no notice if they are in a job that underpays.

Millennials have been brutalized economically so the boomers can suck it when they complain about this shit imo.
(This isn't specifically about you and your point just overall I'm just thinking about the employer/employee contract lately )

Employers broke the contract of respect and loyalty long ago so they get to experience the consequences.

The problem with this is if you work in an industry like I do, you're probably going to see these people you ghosted again. You may even be standing in front of them again when companies change hands or personnel changes are made. You ghost a place and your name is going to be known - and not for the reasons you want it known.

That's why you don't want to set your reputation aside for a deal, either. Another deal can get made, another reputation can't.

Nobody wants to deliver bad news, but the news isn't changing by you not calling back. Now, you're just going to deal with someone who's more torqued off than they were already. I'll use a text to reply to a call - but only to tell them I'm tied up and will call back. I get the communication phobia, though - some people just won't shut the fuck up, or they're just needy and will wind up eating into your day. People you don't call back just get more needy though - and mad - so you might as well just pull that Band-Aid off fast instead of doing the slow pull.

Yes. I always remember people who blow me off, if nothing else because it’s usually a pretty good indicator of other more serious shortcomings.

Again, as I am on the Gen X/Millennials cusp so I do sympathize with many of their world views, but take the example of the client/co-worker that drones on for too long. Use your emotional intelligence to still have the conversation but end it quickly:

- “Hey Bob, sorry to be a bit rushed, but I have a hard cut off of 15 minutes. Gotta go xxxxx”
- “Hmmmmmm. Sounds like we need to schedule a separate meeting about this to give it the attention it deserves”

Whatever. Tailor it to your audience.

But yeah, not calling back or not having that conversation definitely makes things worse.

dflea said:

Pitchfork51 said:

Doog_de_Jour said:

Fishpo31 said:

creepycoug said:

1to392831weretaken said:

creepycoug said:

1to392831weretaken said:

In all seriousness, though, this has been going on for some time. I'm just a lowly grunt at a big company, so not sure about the degradation of etiquette in high level business settings, but I can speak a LOT to dealing with construction/service trades, as I've been doing an awful lot of that since buying my crumbling-to-pieces house and rebuilding my burned-down shop.

It absolutely amazes me how rarely a contractor will even call back at all, let alone be prompt. Rarely will somebody show up on time and be professional. And a lot of times, when they do show up, the bid is stupid high. It's a seller's market right now for construction/industrial services, and the amount of respect paid to you, the customer, reflects this. They'll get to you when they get to you, and you'll be as thankful for their benevolence as you would if they were Kirk Herbstreit. And you'll take their $6500 bid for eight man-hours of plumbing and $100 in materials and you'll like it.

More recently, I've been hunting auctions, trying to pick the carcass of a newly deceased machine shop for a cheap VMC. As recently as a couple of years ago, even a 15 year old machine like this would typically sell for at least $20K. Now they can be found at auction for under half that. The problem? Rigging and transporting 11,000 lbs. of cast iron and sensitive electronics isn't cheap. As in, costs more than the machine "not cheap" in some cases. I've requested rigging quotes from six different outfits in the last month. ONE has gotten back to me, and with that one it's been three days and counting waiting for a simple bid. What do they care, though, when the gal tells me right there on the phone that they're so busy moving shit around from dead shops right now that they can get to it when they get to it and charge whatever they want?

Not to ramble on like a woman at a board meeting, but my theory is that we're seeing the delayed effect of the transition from phone to text/email communication finally hitting. People are now used to a lack of immediacy in communication. It's normal. In the days when you had to pick up the phone or meet face to face, people were used to communicating in real time. Now, it's a text message or email, and you can get to it when you get to it. This has finally trickled up to business, as businesses are increasingly staffed/owned by people who grew up knowing nothing else. I have a distant millennial friend with whom I communicate only via IM. He gives me shit all the time for typing things like, "I'm sorry it took so long to get back to you" or, "I'm busy right now, but I'll get back to you in a bit." Or even, "I've gotta run, I'll catch you later."

The response is always something like, "Dude: you don't have to say that. It's IM. I'm not sitting here waiting for your response or something."

I think that's the business-to-customer or even business-to-business relationship in a nutshell these days.

The interesting thing about this is the other side of the coin: with millenials, ie, my kids, they've spent a lifetime with their Gen X or Boomer parents telling them to "get you fucking nose out of that fucking phone!"

So, now, my oldest daughter makes me proud when I text or e-mail her and she doesn't immediately respond, because she's a grown-up and doesn't stare are her phone all day.

And when I'm not the one trying to get a hold of her, I'm actually happy about this.

I'm old school: There's still a microphone and a speaker on my phone, and I use them all the time. Particularly when calling my dad. Then again, with how I'm prone to bloviate, I think my thumbs would permanently be in splints if I tried keeping it all to text.

with millenials, answering the phone is about as natural to them as working in the same place your whole life. it's just not what they do.

I struggled with this for quite a while. I call people, and they email or text responses. I call them again, same thing. It drove me nuts, when I call someone, I'm looking for a response (or the prep for one) NOW, not on "their time". I once counted the days between having face-to-face / phone convo with my boss...a little over six weeks...his office was 100 feet from mine.

See, I think the pandering society has done for Millennials has to stop. Not calling someone back is rude, end of story. Your story is a perfect example as to why. I’m a Xennial, so I’m not unsympathetic as to why younger generations prefer texts or email, but you lose so many vital parts of communication (tone, facial expressions, body language, vocal cues like laughter).

It’s OK that we all have different ways of communicating, but it has to be a two way street. I rarely hear about Millenials/Gen Z’ers trying to figure out the expectations for their older counterparts.

To be honest most corporations can absolutely suck it. Before china and the Dems unleashed the plague the workers finally had the leverage and I found it quite funny that employers complained about getting ghosted.

I'm also a big fan of people leaving with no notice if they are in a job that underpays.

Millennials have been brutalized economically so the boomers can suck it when they complain about this shit imo.
(This isn't specifically about you and your point just overall I'm just thinking about the employer/employee contract lately )

Employers broke the contract of respect and loyalty long ago so they get to experience the consequences.

The problem with this is if you work in an industry like I do, you're probably going to see these people you ghosted again. You may even be standing in front of them again when companies change hands or personnel changes are made. You ghost a place and your name is going to be known - and not for the reasons you want it known.

That's why you don't want to set your reputation aside for a deal, either. Another deal can get made, another reputation can't.

Nobody wants to deliver bad news, but the news isn't changing by you not calling back. Now, you're just going to deal with someone who's more torqued off than they were already. I'll use a text to reply to a call - but only to tell them I'm tied up and will call back. I get the communication phobia, though - some people just won't shut the fuck up, or they're just needy and will wind up eating into your day. People you don't call back just get more needy though - and mad - so you might as well just pull that Band-Aid off fast instead of doing the slow pull.

Yeah I'm mostly referring to like your nameless office workers