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Academis questions for Creep

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  • creepycougcreepycoug Member Posts: 24,008
    edited January 2021

    I actually think the system that failed me is being slowly fixed now...I remember reading somewhere half of the degrees in science fields and engineering are being awarded to women (computer science is still way behind...I think it’s closer to 20% there). The next hurdle of getting these women hired, promoted, and retained is what needs to happen next.
    Over and over, we see that these things are not helped with one simple change, like affirmative action or diversity programs aimed at clearing that first hurdle. It's a combination of things and, as I've learned raising 3 daughters, girls are different than boys. So you can't say, as maybe some of our friends in the Tug would, "Well, shit. The schools recruit them and give them an advantage in admissions, so what's the problem?" Well, the problem was never admissions. The problem is the messages girls get along the way, and if they manage to get there, the messages they continue to receive. We know it's not because they can't do the work. So you have to keep asking the question and finding solutions.

    On the sports side, one of my girl's coaches used to say something to the effect that if you yell at them and try and coerce them into doing something, they'll do the minimum and they won't give you everything they've got. But if, after you've earned their trust, you ask them to do something for you, they'll run through a brick wall to get it done..

    I think there may be something to that. But then again, that same kid's premier soccer coach was a Texas All American who was a ball buster, and my kid never played for anyone like she played for her. That includes college.

    I have no answers, but I know it's not as simple as recruiting. It takes a multi-factor approach.
  • Doog_de_JourDoog_de_Jour Member Posts: 8,041 Standard Supporter

    See when I did pro sales (at a good company with high level sales) they promoted and we're crazy about promoting women. Not in a bad way. I just think that in certain fields where you have to hire grinders sometimes women can get in the door better. It really depends on industry but it was about 80 percent really sharp girls.
    Yeah. Sales is a little bit different animal. You’re absolutely right, that’s one area (depending on the industry) where women crush it.

    I’m curious though, how long do these women last? Are they promoted?
  • creepycougcreepycoug Member Posts: 24,008

    Although I'm not gonna lie and I know this sounds bad. But I'll never work for a woman.

    My boss lost 30 lbs and got veneers and all I wanted to do was get down. It was bad.

    lolz.
  • YellowSnowYellowSnow Moderator, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 37,182 Founders Club

    lolz.
    *lulz
  • Pitchfork51Pitchfork51 Member Posts: 27,631

    Yeah. Sales is a little bit different animal. You’re absolutely right, that’s one area (depending on the industry) where women crush it.

    I’m curious though, how long do these women last? Are they promoted?
    Yeah. If I had to give a solid guess I'd assume about 80 percent of the main area managers are women. But they were pretty hardcore about hiring and all these chicks are super sharp.

    It kind of taught me that it's like 70 percent hiring 30 percent teaching.
  • Pitchfork51Pitchfork51 Member Posts: 27,631

    Over and over, we see that these things are not helped with one simple change, like affirmative action or diversity programs aimed at clearing that first hurdle. It's a combination of things and, as I've learned raising 3 daughters, girls are different than boys. So you can't say, as maybe some of our friends in the Tug would, "Well, shit. The schools recruit them and give them an advantage in admissions, so what's the problem?" Well, the problem was never admissions. The problem is the messages girls get along the way, and if they manage to get there, the messages they continue to receive. We know it's not because they can't do the work. So you have to keep asking the question and finding solutions.

    On the sports side, one of my girl's coaches used to say something to the effect that if you yell at them and try and coerce them into doing something, they'll do the minimum and they won't give you everything they've got. But if, after you've earned their trust, you ask them to do something for you, they'll run through a brick wall to get it done..

    I think there may be something to that. But then again, that same kid's premier soccer coach was a Texas All American who was a ball buster, and my kid never played for anyone like she played for her. That includes college.

    I have no answers, but I know it's not as simple as recruiting. It takes a multi-factor approach.
    Agreed. It might shock you guys that one of the things I think is important is to get more women in the industry. Not out of social justice bullshit reasons it's just I think women are equally capable as men in office type jobs and I think the industry is full of dudes who cannot advance because they have no social skills.

    Its like being in a frat for years with no parties. Its like dick measuring bullshit for no reason.
  • creepycougcreepycoug Member Posts: 24,008

    Agreed. It might shock you guys that one of the things I think is important is to get more women in the industry. Not out of social justice bullshit reasons it's just I think women are equally capable as men in office type jobs and I think the industry is full of dudes who cannot advance because they have no social skills.

    Its like being in a frat for years with no parties. Its like dick measuring bullshit for no reason.
    You make a really good point. I have worked with and for a lot of men who aren't worth a shit at their jobs, but have figured out how to play the club game. I know few women who have mastered that game, which does not favor them.
  • Doog_de_JourDoog_de_Jour Member Posts: 8,041 Standard Supporter

    You make a really good point. I have worked with and for a lot of men who aren't worth a shit at their jobs, but have figured out how to play the club game. I know few women who have mastered that game, which does not favor them.
    I’ve found that to be a huge barrier in my career. I’m trying to work on it. I’m also shit at negotiating / promoting *myself*, which is another thing lots of women struggle with. You have to be your own advocate.
  • Doog_de_JourDoog_de_Jour Member Posts: 8,041 Standard Supporter

    Although I'm not gonna lie and I know this sounds bad. But I'll never work for a woman.

    My boss lost 30 lbs and got veneers and all I wanted to do was get down. It was bad.

    Pics? 😅
  • creepycougcreepycoug Member Posts: 24,008
    edited January 2021

    I’ve found that to be a huge barrier in my career. I’m trying to work on it. I’m also shit at negotiating / promoting *myself*, which is another thing lots of women struggle with. You have to be your own advocate.
    You do. There is a subtle art to it. As with many things, it isn't a strength for me either. In women, I have found it to be more of black and white thing (generalizing massively here). Those who are bent on doing it often come off like it's over-the-top. But then again, would I perceive it that way if a man were doing exactly the same thing? I often think that Hilary gets a little of her shit because she's a woman ... said another way, would she we quite as despised if she were a man with the exact same behavior and personality? And then, there are those who just suffer in obscurity and work their asses off and are taken for granted.

    It's quite a thing you're talking about here. It's real. I see it, and because I have girls, I pay attention to it and have tried to be empathetic and help where I can. My view is that if you can the work you should be treated accordingly.

    Also, big of you to be aware of it, own it and work on it.

    My unsolicited advice? Find a good mentor ... man or woman, who will champion you. If you have the resources, or if your company HR will pay for it, consider an executive coach. This will be a PhD in psychology who has organizational behavior expertise. Changed my life. Makes you see all kinds of things about yourself and you learn how others see you. Very important. PM me and I can give you a reference if you are interested. They're not cheap; but they're cheaper than lawyers.
  • Fishpo31Fishpo31 Member Posts: 2,604
    Was talking with my wife last night about the maff thing, and she completely agreed. She said that she was drifting away from math in about 8th grade, and the one thing that saved her was a really good teacher (whom she is still in touch with). She considered going into the FBI, but by the time she figured out what she needed, she was married and moving around with her ex. She is in sales, and crushes it. She's a nerd, but she's my nerd...

    She has gone thru the "promotion to management" phase, and was shocked at how generally incompetent her work force was, and how upper managers "old boy-ed" the men, and pressed the women until many broke. She earned roughly half of what she was making selling, with huge headaches every day, not of her making. It really opened my eyes when she would talk of all the bullshit she has seen in the workplace over the years, being talked down to by higher-ups that couldn't run a lemonade stand in the Mojave desert.

  • WoofWoof Member Posts: 770
    There are no shortage of shitty executives out there who have coasted their way into their jobs by being good at glad handing and fun to get a drink with. I've had the pleasure of firing some of them. I look forward to shit canning more of them in the future.

    I completely agree with the multi-factor thing when it comes to affirmative action, women in the workplace, or almost any other long-standing societal problem. Dare I say there are some structural or even systemic problems in society that need to be addressed to fix the problems? Shit is getting better, but it's not going to change overnight.

    One other big factor in this is just general inertia. Humans enjoy doing the same thing, or the easy thing, over and over, even if it comes with mixed (or poor) results. Do managers and executives really want to go to colleges and interview lots of people and find a top quality candidate and then train the hell out of them? Hell no. It's way easier to have HR put out a job post, and hire the first 6.5 out of 10 that you come across that has some related skills, even if there is a 0% chance they're going to become a superstar. Males typically end up benefitting the most from this arrangement.

    One of my main rules in life is not to expect too much out of other humans. That doesn't mean everyone is shitty and is out to get you, just that most people are pretty lazy and have plenty room to improve, even if they're great to have a beer and play golf with.
  • FireCohenFireCohen Member Posts: 21,823

    I'm not gonna lie I'm really enjoying the creep board. Its good stuff. I like hearing about you guys and all this crap.

    Much better than the tug

    Trying to score some free blow from creep??
  • FireCohenFireCohen Member Posts: 21,823

    Over and over, we see that these things are not helped with one simple change, like affirmative action or diversity programs aimed at clearing that first hurdle. It's a combination of things and, as I've learned raising 3 daughters, girls are different than boys. So you can't say, as maybe some of our friends in the Tug would, "Well, shit. The schools recruit them and give them an advantage in admissions, so what's the problem?" Well, the problem was never admissions. The problem is the messages girls get along the way, and if they manage to get there, the messages they continue to receive. We know it's not because they can't do the work. So you have to keep asking the question and finding solutions.

    On the sports side, one of my girl's coaches used to say something to the effect that if you yell at them and try and coerce them into doing something, they'll do the minimum and they won't give you everything they've got. But if, after you've earned their trust, you ask them to do something for you, they'll run through a brick wall to get it done..

    I think there may be something to that. But then again, that same kid's premier soccer coach was a Texas All American who was a ball buster, and my kid never played for anyone like she played for her. That includes college.

    I have no answers, but I know it's not as simple as recruiting. It takes a multi-factor approach.
    If they don’t have daddy issues and stay off the pole. You deserve a medal sir
  • creepycougcreepycoug Member Posts: 24,008
    FireCohen said:

    If they don’t have daddy issues and stay off the pole. You deserve a medal sir
    Check. Is the medal in the mail?
  • creepycougcreepycoug Member Posts: 24,008
    Fishpo31 said:

    Was talking with my wife last night about the maff thing, and she completely agreed. She said that she was drifting away from math in about 8th grade, and the one thing that saved her was a really good teacher (whom she is still in touch with). She considered going into the FBI, but by the time she figured out what she needed, she was married and moving around with her ex. She is in sales, and crushes it. She's a nerd, but she's my nerd...

    She has gone thru the "promotion to management" phase, and was shocked at how generally incompetent her work force was, and how upper managers "old boy-ed" the men, and pressed the women until many broke. She earned roughly half of what she was making selling, with huge headaches every day, not of her making. It really opened my eyes when she would talk of all the bullshit she has seen in the workplace over the years, being talked down to by higher-ups that couldn't run a lemonade stand in the Mojave desert.

    None of that surprises me in the least to read. Seriously. No hyperbole. It's absolutely typical. And anyone who argues that the old boys clubs aren't operating anymore isn't paying attention or doesn't have access to the view you need to see it.
  • creepycougcreepycoug Member Posts: 24,008
    dflea said:

    We used to lose to Oly High. So I bet those fuckers wanted to punch your face in when you dropped that shit in them.

    lol
    I remember when Tumwater ran that shit in the BHL. Then they got split up.
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