LeBron
Comments
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If you command the ship and the lion's share of attention on your team, you can expect to be the first one criticized when the ship sinks due to your lack of leadership. HTH.He_Needs_More_Time said:It's classic First Take narrative let's be lazy and blame the super star and act like Magic, Bird, MJ and Kobe(In my opinion doesn't belong with those three yet his fans constantly insist that he does) never ever had a bad moment.
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This is the problem. I don't think Lebron's a great leader but I don't think leadership was the problem here. They got beat by a better team. Yes, if you swap out Jordan I think they win, but that's the only player in history I'd say that about. If only one player in history would have gotten them the victory, you just tip your cap and admit the Spurs were a better coached, developed, rested and staffed team.oregonblitzkrieg said:
If you command the ship and the lion's share of attention on your team, you can expect to be the first one criticized when the ship sinks due to your lack of leadership. HTH.He_Needs_More_Time said:It's classic First Take narrative let's be lazy and blame the super star and act like Magic, Bird, MJ and Kobe(In my opinion doesn't belong with those three yet his fans constantly insist that he does) never ever had a bad moment.
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I'm using the Hugh Millen eye test when I say this Spurs team is better than that Jazz team.dnc said:
The Jazz were a 7.97 SRS team in 97 and got knocked out in six games. You're putting a hell of a lot of weight in 0.03 points of SRS. 4-2 against 7.97 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1-4 against 8.00.He_Needs_More_Time said:When Jordan retired Pippen was probably the 3rd best player in the game behind Olajuwon and Ewing. Pippen often gets downplayed by the Jordan dick riders I noticed.
I also don't think if you switch Jordan in his prime they win this series. Lebron had his best Finals offensively so what more could have MJ done? I feel like this thread needs to re-watch this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAkVnlA9CJo
You guys are pulling a Bayless with this shit of "Jordan would have willed his team, he would have wanted it more".
This Spurs team is better than any team Jordan has ever defeated in his career. That's a fact. They had an 8.0 SRS rating for this year which is pretty fucking good.
Jordan you all forget before Pippen got good couldn't get past great teams on his own and was 1-9 in the first round before Pippen was drafted.
Also I think Jordan had a better supporting cast than this current Heat team. Pippen in any of those 6 titles was better than this years Wade. Ron Harper although on the downside was better than Chalmers/Cole. Grant/Rodman vs Bosh is whatever you prefer. Bosh better offensively but those two were better defenders/rebounders. Cartwright/Longley sadly are better than any big man Miami has currently.
Bench? Kukoc in 1996-98 is better than 2014 Ray Allen. Steve Kerr this current Heat team doesn't even have a Steve Kerr(I guess Cole?).
You guys are reminding me of Doogman with this shit. It's classic First Take narrative let's be lazy and blame the super star and act like Magic, Bird, MJ and Kobe(In my opinion doesn't belong with those three yet his fans constantly insist that he does) never ever had a bad moment. Magic never got swept in the finals in 1983 and 1989, never lost in the playoffs in 5 games in 1985, 1990 or 1991. Bird never repeated as a champion but that is ignored same with his first title someone else won Finals MVP.
You're right there's too much criticism being heaped at Lebron, but if you insist on comparing him to Jordan he's going to continue to look like shit. Jordan >>>>>>>>>>> Lebron.
Also I think Jordan is better than Lebron. I don't think Jordan in his prime on this Heat they win the series against the Spurs. Just my opinion as I think Lebron played a good series I really do. In 2011 he didn't and I was there to throw stones towards him.
I really don't think that. These Spurs are too deep, too team oriented, too focused, well coached and they spent 12 months wanting Miami. They looked like a team wanting revenge, while Miami looked like a tired ass team who just played four straight finals.
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Also it's been said in here but let's recap Duncan for a minute. He wins a title in 1999 and then had his own chance to take his talents elsewhere. If you guys remember the big rumor was he was going to leave the aging Spurs team for the Magic who cleared out cap space to get him, Grant Hill and Tracy McGrady. He shocked everyone by staying.
Then as the Spurs were looking over the hill like in 2009 and 2010 going into 2011 Popovich sat Duncan and Parker down. He said we need to scrap what we were(boring ass slow pace team, half court, grind it out) and go to a run and gun team. This will be Tony Parker's team now. Duncan unlike Lebron or Kobe accepted what was best for the team. In 2011 they have the best record but Ginoboli is hurt so they lose to DNC's Grizz. 2012 best record again only to blow a 2-0 to OKC. In 2013 we all remember how that went down.
The Spurs have re-tooled their team going from a slow pace, half court team to a run and gun team who unlike those Phoenix teams can play great defense when needed. Pop has built up guys like Boris Diaw who Charlotte two years ago let go, traded for Leonard who fell to the 15th pick, Patty Mills was a cast off from Portland, I believe Danny Green was in the NBDL just last year at some point.
Duncan like RoadDawg or DNC said accepted 10 million a year as did Parker. Both could have easily gone max. I mean Kobe just signed a 2/48 based on what he's done, Wade has 2/40 left on his deal too.
Now speaking of Wade what does he do? Does he pull a Duncan and opt out of his deal and sign for a deal that is more what he's worth now so the Heat can improve their roster? or does he opt in and collect the pay check? Not my money so I won't fault him either way. -
That's why I think Jordan could have made the difference. I agree Lebron didn't play poorly, but he's a nice guy. Nice guys are fun to play with, which is why Wade and Bosh are with Lebron to begin with. But Bron's not giving people death stares for half assing out there. Jordan would have gotten his team up for this by sheer intimidation. The only other player I'd say was close to that was Kobe, but people hated playing with Kobe whereas they were just in awe/reverence of MJ. I think Wade, for instance, has a much better series playing alongside Jordan, Jordan would have found a way to pull it out of him.He_Needs_More_Time said:
I'm using the Hugh Millen eye test when I say this Spurs team is better than that Jazz team.dnc said:
The Jazz were a 7.97 SRS team in 97 and got knocked out in six games. You're putting a hell of a lot of weight in 0.03 points of SRS. 4-2 against 7.97 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1-4 against 8.00.He_Needs_More_Time said:When Jordan retired Pippen was probably the 3rd best player in the game behind Olajuwon and Ewing. Pippen often gets downplayed by the Jordan dick riders I noticed.
I also don't think if you switch Jordan in his prime they win this series. Lebron had his best Finals offensively so what more could have MJ done? I feel like this thread needs to re-watch this videohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAkVnlA9CJo
You guys are pulling a Bayless with this shit of "Jordan would have willed his team, he would have wanted it more".
This Spurs team is better than any team Jordan has ever defeated in his career. That's a fact. They had an 8.0 SRS rating for this year which is pretty fucking good.
Jordan you all forget before Pippen got good couldn't get past great teams on his own and was 1-9 in the first round before Pippen was drafted.
Also I think Jordan had a better supporting cast than this current Heat team. Pippen in any of those 6 titles was better than this years Wade. Ron Harper although on the downside was better than Chalmers/Cole. Grant/Rodman vs Bosh is whatever you prefer. Bosh better offensively but those two were better defenders/rebounders. Cartwright/Longley sadly are better than any big man Miami has currently.
Bench? Kukoc in 1996-98 is better than 2014 Ray Allen. Steve Kerr this current Heat team doesn't even have a Steve Kerr(I guess Cole?).
You guys are reminding me of Doogman with this shit. It's classic First Take narrative let's be lazy and blame the super star and act like Magic, Bird, MJ and Kobe(In my opinion doesn't belong with those three yet his fans constantly insist that he does) never ever had a bad moment. Magic never got swept in the finals in 1983 and 1989, never lost in the playoffs in 5 games in 1985, 1990 or 1991. Bird never repeated as a champion but that is ignored same with his first title someone else won Finals MVP.
You're right there's too much criticism being heaped at Lebron, but if you insist on comparing him to Jordan he's going to continue to look like shit. Jordan >>>>>>>>>>> Lebron.
Also I think Jordan is better than Lebron. I don't think Jordan in his prime on this Heat they win the series against the Spurs. Just my opinion as I think Lebron played a good series I really do. In 2011 he didn't and I was there to throw stones towards him.
I really don't think that. These Spurs are too deep, too team oriented, too focused, well coached and they spent 12 months wanting Miami. They looked like a team wanting revenge, while Miami looked like a tired ass team who just played four straight finals.
The part that's hard for me to decode is how much of it was Jordan and how much of it was Phil's mastery. I lean towards giving Jordan the credit but I may be underrating PJ's contribution. I don't think Spoelstra is a bad coach at all, but I don't think he's Phil Jackson either. -
Great post. How smart does Duncan look for not teaming up with Hill and McGrady now? That could have been a career killer.He_Needs_More_Time said:Also it's been said in here but let's recap Duncan for a minute. He wins a title in 1999 and then had his own chance to take his talents elsewhere. If you guys remember the big rumor was he was going to leave the aging Spurs team for the Magic who cleared out cap space to get him, Grant Hill and Tracy McGrady. He shocked everyone by staying.
Then as the Spurs were looking over the hill like in 2009 and 2010 going into 2011 Popovich sat Duncan and Parker down. He said we need to scrap what we were(boring ass slow pace team, half court, grind it out) and go to a run and gun team. This will be Tony Parker's team now. Duncan unlike Lebron or Kobe accepted what was best for the team. In 2011 they have the best record but Ginoboli is hurt so they lose to DNC's Grizz. 2012 best record again only to blow a 2-0 to OKC. In 2013 we all remember how that went down.
The Spurs have re-tooled their team going from a slow pace, half court team to a run and gun team who unlike those Phoenix teams can play great defense when needed. Pop has built up guys like Boris Diaw who Charlotte two years ago let go, traded for Leonard who fell to the 15th pick, Patty Mills was a cast off from Portland, I believe Danny Green was in the NBDL just last year at some point.
Duncan like RoadDawg or DNC said accepted 10 million a year as did Parker. Both could have easily gone max. I mean Kobe just signed a 2/48 based on what he's done, Wade has 2/40 left on his deal too.
Now speaking of Wade what does he do? Does he pull a Duncan and opt out of his deal and sign for a deal that is more what he's worth now so the Heat can improve their roster? or does he opt in and collect the pay check? Not my money so I won't fault him either way.
Duncan is the teammate the Hooks want to believe Russell Wilson is. -
The defense of Lebron has become as ridiculous as the hate. For 10 of the final 12 quarters of this series he was terrible. You can bullshit all you want about supporting cast. He didn't play well enough to win.
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He immediately looked smart too as Hill played just 7 games that first year and was never the same.dnc said:
Great post. How smart does Duncan look for not teaming up with Hill and McGrady now? That could have been a career killer.He_Needs_More_Time said:Also it's been said in here but let's recap Duncan for a minute. He wins a title in 1999 and then had his own chance to take his talents elsewhere. If you guys remember the big rumor was he was going to leave the aging Spurs team for the Magic who cleared out cap space to get him, Grant Hill and Tracy McGrady. He shocked everyone by staying.
Then as the Spurs were looking over the hill like in 2009 and 2010 going into 2011 Popovich sat Duncan and Parker down. He said we need to scrap what we were(boring ass slow pace team, half court, grind it out) and go to a run and gun team. This will be Tony Parker's team now. Duncan unlike Lebron or Kobe accepted what was best for the team. In 2011 they have the best record but Ginoboli is hurt so they lose to DNC's Grizz. 2012 best record again only to blow a 2-0 to OKC. In 2013 we all remember how that went down.
The Spurs have re-tooled their team going from a slow pace, half court team to a run and gun team who unlike those Phoenix teams can play great defense when needed. Pop has built up guys like Boris Diaw who Charlotte two years ago let go, traded for Leonard who fell to the 15th pick, Patty Mills was a cast off from Portland, I believe Danny Green was in the NBDL just last year at some point.
Duncan like RoadDawg or DNC said accepted 10 million a year as did Parker. Both could have easily gone max. I mean Kobe just signed a 2/48 based on what he's done, Wade has 2/40 left on his deal too.
Now speaking of Wade what does he do? Does he pull a Duncan and opt out of his deal and sign for a deal that is more what he's worth now so the Heat can improve their roster? or does he opt in and collect the pay check? Not my money so I won't fault him either way.
Duncan is the teammate the Hooks want to believe Russell Wilson is.
I remember he was killed nationally for staying loyal. It was a lot of backhanded "Duncan being a loyal great guy is going to be his undoing as Orlando was the smart move" I think Peter Vecesy(remember that cock sucker for NBC?) killed him for it.
I thought he was nuts as Shaq-Kobe proved the next three years that nobody was stopping them except for Shaq-Kobe.
Duncan is a great player who is always forgotten. I mean you see so many who is better Lebron or Kobe debates but never mind you are probably arguing for 2nd and 3rd as Duncan played in that same era.
Lebron is 29 so he has plenty of time to add to his legacy. However, historically I think it's time to put Duncan ahead of Kobe and for now ahead of Lebron. -
He averaged 28.2 PPG with a true shooting percentage of 68% for the series. Your bias take against Lebron has been documented so I'm not surprised with this.allpurpleallgold said:The defense of Lebron has become as ridiculous as the hate. For 10 of the final 12 quarters of this series he was terrible. You can bullshit all you want about supporting cast. He didn't play well enough to win.
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fucking a not this supporting cast. In 2011 and 2012, and maybe 2013 I think lebron's was better, just my opinion. Wade is now a shell of himselfHe_Needs_More_Time said:
Is Wade in his prime now? Talking about Jordan's cast being better than this current Heat squad.dhdawg said:I don't think he's definitively better than wade was in his prime
Also Wade won a title in 2006 then was headed towards Tracy Mcgrady territory.
2007- swept 1st round
2008- 15-67 record
2009- first round exit
2010- first round exit
If Lebron doesn't take his talents to Miami I think we are all viewing Wade's career a lot differently.
By no means am I dismissing Wade but I think to think he's better than Pippen career wise I don't know about that. I think in their prime for one game I probably take Wade but I'd take Pippen's career over Wade's. -
Get some more servers, DJ.
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Not 2011 that team literally had Lebron, Wade, and Bosh and nobody else. Granted Wade was still in his prime.dhdawg said:
fucking a not this supporting cast. In 2011 and 2012, and maybe 2013 I think lebron's was better, just my opinion. Wade is now a shell of himselfHe_Needs_More_Time said:
Is Wade in his prime now? Talking about Jordan's cast being better than this current Heat squad.dhdawg said:I don't think he's definitively better than wade was in his prime
Also Wade won a title in 2006 then was headed towards Tracy Mcgrady territory.
2007- swept 1st round
2008- 15-67 record
2009- first round exit
2010- first round exit
If Lebron doesn't take his talents to Miami I think we are all viewing Wade's career a lot differently.
By no means am I dismissing Wade but I think to think he's better than Pippen career wise I don't know about that. I think in their prime for one game I probably take Wade but I'd take Pippen's career over Wade's.
In 2012 and 2013 that cast is comparable to the Bulls cast but Lebron won titles both those years.
This year let's be real if they were in the West some of those guys would have been exposed a lot sooner. The Heat had the easiest path to the Finals this year I can ever remember. The Pacers were supposed to be a threat but they self destructed and everyone outside of Tequilla knew they were no match for Miami.
In some ways the way Miami lost is better than had they barely lost. Now they will blow it up a bit, perhaps Lebron/Wade/Bosh take even less money to bring in a Melo(mistake IMO).
I think Melo would help them with taking the scoring load off Lebron. However, it's a mistake because they lost due to lack of defense, no size in the middle and poor PG play which last I saw Melo doesn't help at all with that.
Riley is a mastermind but he had a bad last offseason with the Oden/Beasley signings neither helped this team. They were hoping both could add some size but both were flops. -
My mistake was thinking that the Pacers could piece themselves together long enough to expose the holes that I saw in Miami.He_Needs_More_Time said:
This year let's be real if they were in the West some of those guys would have been exposed a lot sooner. The Heat had the easiest path to the Finals this year I can ever remember. The Pacers were supposed to be a threat but they self destructed and everyone outside of Tequilla knew they were no match for Miami.dhdawg said:
fucking a not this supporting cast. In 2011 and 2012, and maybe 2013 I think lebron's was better, just my opinion. Wade is now a shell of himselfHe_Needs_More_Time said:
Is Wade in his prime now? Talking about Jordan's cast being better than this current Heat squad.dhdawg said:I don't think he's definitively better than wade was in his prime
Also Wade won a title in 2006 then was headed towards Tracy Mcgrady territory.
2007- swept 1st round
2008- 15-67 record
2009- first round exit
2010- first round exit
If Lebron doesn't take his talents to Miami I think we are all viewing Wade's career a lot differently.
By no means am I dismissing Wade but I think to think he's better than Pippen career wise I don't know about that. I think in their prime for one game I probably take Wade but I'd take Pippen's career over Wade's.
The holes that I saw in Miami were plenty exposed by San Antonio.
The one thing I was sure of more than anything else this year was that Miami wasn't going to win the title. -
I specifically said 10 of the last 12 quarters. So you can throw out all the hollow stats you'd like. I bet his true shooting percentage was pretty good in game 3. He scored 22 whole points on 14 shots. Pretty damn efficient. But Kawhi Leonard still whooped his ass up and down the court.He_Needs_More_Time said:
He averaged 28.2 PPG with a true shooting percentage of 68% for the series. Your bias take against Lebron has been documented so I'm not surprised with this.allpurpleallgold said:The defense of Lebron has become as ridiculous as the hate. For 10 of the final 12 quarters of this series he was terrible. You can bullshit all you want about supporting cast. He didn't play well enough to win.
He was great in the first quarter tonight. He was great in the third quarter of game 4. He was great in game 2. He was great in game 1 before the cramps. But in 10 of the last 12 quarters he was not great. His team didn't need brilliant quarters. They needed brilliant games. And he didn't deliver. -
This is a good point. Looking at the stats, LeBron played well. However when watching, he didn't play well. He was good in the first two games, the cramps were unfortunate. He wasn't good in game 3 with 7 TO's and getting vastly outplayed by Leonard. Game 4, he scored 19 of his 28 in the third quarter when the game was essentially over, and he played great in the first quarter today. Very empty stats and he was terrible in the third quarter today and way too passive.allpurpleallgold said:The defense of Lebron has become as ridiculous as the hate. For 10 of the final 12 quarters of this series he was terrible. You can bullshit all you want about supporting cast. He didn't play well enough to win.
The whole Heat team sucked the whole series, but he didn't play well. His defense was really bad too and pretty uncharacteristic. Patty Mills blowing by LeBron for a lay in is inexcusable. Same with having your hand down on Leonard and Green 3's. That Cuban video is fine, but can you really say it looked like LeBron was dialed in and ready to compete every possession. I can't excuse coasting in the Finals by somebody that talented, and his effort on defense was shitty. -
No way would MJ have won the series. No fucking way. Miami wouldn't have made west finals. They were exposed. MJ wins the series with Pippen instead of Wade.
Clearly, Lebron will never reach MJ heights. He lacks that killer instinct and he also has had a terrible supporting cast his entire career. It fucking sucked in Cleveland, who completely fell apart when he was gone. Pippen was also way better than anyone on Miami the last few years. (Not Wade 8 years ago though).
The big nock on Lebron is the 2011 loss. He'd be 3/5 instead of 2/5 and in good position to get 5. The 2 losses his teams were overmatched. It will be hard for him to win 3 more from here. I'd bet he ends up with 4.
Miami's supporting cast is terrible and getting worse. Wade is clearly over the hill. Bosh is great but being marginalized as the 3rd option. He might be better as the #2 guy. Lebron should opt out because Wade is fucking done and Miami doesn't have one other player who is good on both ends. And Carmelo would be the wrong move. -
Finally some sanity to this thread.HeretoBeatmyChest said:No way would MJ have won the series. No fucking way. Miami wouldn't have made west finals. They were exposed. MJ wins the series with Pippen instead of Wade.
Clearly, Lebron will never reach MJ heights. He lacks that killer instinct and he also has had a terrible supporting cast his entire career. It fucking sucked in Cleveland, who completely fell apart when he was gone. Pippen was also way better than anyone on Miami the last few years. (Not Wade 8 years ago though).
The big nock on Lebron is the 2011 loss. He'd be 3/5 instead of 2/5 and in good position to get 5. The 2 losses his teams were overmatched. It will be hard for him to win 3 more from here. I'd bet he ends up with 4.
Miami's supporting cast is terrible and getting worse. Wade is clearly over the hill. Bosh is great but being marginalized as the 3rd option. He might be better as the #2 guy. Lebron should opt out because Wade is fucking done and Miami doesn't have one other player who is good on both ends. And Carmelo would be the wrong move.
Was starting to resemble first take a little too much. -
LeBron has never appeared in the Western Conference playoffs.He_Needs_More_Time said:
He's had his fair share of blow out losses in the playoffs too where his team was dominated.TierbsHsotBoobs said:
Kobe is 2-1 in Finals without Shaq. Last I checked, 2-1 is better than 2-3.PurpleJ said:
Flagged for saying Kobe > LeBron. Shaq says hi.TierbsHsotBoobs said:
It's not LeBron's fault Miami lost.He_Needs_More_Time said:So this board is really going to do this huh? Act like Skip Bayless and blame this on Lebron.
He played better this series than he did last year against the Spurs. He shot incredible. The Heat aren't this dream team I've been saying that all year about this supporting cast. Was mocked for saying Wade is washed up.
Parker was 0-10 shooting and the Spurs best player IMO. They were up 20 you think OKC, Miami, Clippers or any championship contender in the last 20 years could have their best player have a game like that and still kick ass? Fuck no!
Pop is the G.O.A.T for coaches IMO.
This series did confirm beyond the shadow of a doubt that LeBron is inferior to Jordan, Kobe, and Duncan though.
Also in his prime couldn't get out of the first round 2005-07.
Lebron has never lost in the first round btw.
Making the Finals from the East is a joke. -
For the LeBron fellaters out there, get back to me when he has more rings than Adam Morrison.
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Hugh Millen's eye test picks a Utah team every time.He_Needs_More_Time said:
I'm using the Hugh Millen eye test when I say this Spurs team is better than that Jazz team.dnc said:
The Jazz were a 7.97 SRS team in 97 and got knocked out in six games. You're putting a hell of a lot of weight in 0.03 points of SRS. 4-2 against 7.97 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1-4 against 8.00.He_Needs_More_Time said:When Jordan retired Pippen was probably the 3rd best player in the game behind Olajuwon and Ewing. Pippen often gets downplayed by the Jordan dick riders I noticed.
I also don't think if you switch Jordan in his prime they win this series. Lebron had his best Finals offensively so what more could have MJ done? I feel like this thread needs to re-watch this videohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAkVnlA9CJo
You guys are pulling a Bayless with this shit of "Jordan would have willed his team, he would have wanted it more".
This Spurs team is better than any team Jordan has ever defeated in his career. That's a fact. They had an 8.0 SRS rating for this year which is pretty fucking good.
Jordan you all forget before Pippen got good couldn't get past great teams on his own and was 1-9 in the first round before Pippen was drafted.
Also I think Jordan had a better supporting cast than this current Heat team. Pippen in any of those 6 titles was better than this years Wade. Ron Harper although on the downside was better than Chalmers/Cole. Grant/Rodman vs Bosh is whatever you prefer. Bosh better offensively but those two were better defenders/rebounders. Cartwright/Longley sadly are better than any big man Miami has currently.
Bench? Kukoc in 1996-98 is better than 2014 Ray Allen. Steve Kerr this current Heat team doesn't even have a Steve Kerr(I guess Cole?).
You guys are reminding me of Doogman with this shit. It's classic First Take narrative let's be lazy and blame the super star and act like Magic, Bird, MJ and Kobe(In my opinion doesn't belong with those three yet his fans constantly insist that he does) never ever had a bad moment. Magic never got swept in the finals in 1983 and 1989, never lost in the playoffs in 5 games in 1985, 1990 or 1991. Bird never repeated as a champion but that is ignored same with his first title someone else won Finals MVP.
You're right there's too much criticism being heaped at Lebron, but if you insist on comparing him to Jordan he's going to continue to look like shit. Jordan >>>>>>>>>>> Lebron.
Also I think Jordan is better than Lebron. I don't think Jordan in his prime on this Heat they win the series against the Spurs. Just my opinion as I think Lebron played a good series I really do. In 2011 he didn't and I was there to throw stones towards him.
I really don't think that. These Spurs are too deep, too team oriented, too focused, well coached and they spent 12 months wanting Miami. They looked like a team wanting revenge, while Miami looked like a tired ass team who just played four straight finals.
whitey -
For what it's worth, Miami played five games this season that mattered and lost four of them.
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The defense is a really good point. He was lazy on defense all year. His second team all defense this year was a Derek Jeter Gold Glove level joke. Everyone just assumed he would turn it on at some point but he never did.RoadDawg55 said:
This is a good point. Looking at the stats, LeBron played well. However when watching, he didn't play well. He was good in the first two games, the cramps were unfortunate. He wasn't good in game 3 with 7 TO's and getting vastly outplayed by Leonard. Game 4, he scored 19 of his 28 in the third quarter when the game was essentially over, and he played great in the first quarter today. Very empty stats and he was terrible in the third quarter today and way too passive.allpurpleallgold said:The defense of Lebron has become as ridiculous as the hate. For 10 of the final 12 quarters of this series he was terrible. You can bullshit all you want about supporting cast. He didn't play well enough to win.
The whole Heat team sucked the whole series, but he didn't play well. His defense was really bad too and pretty uncharacteristic. Patty Mills blowing by LeBron for a lay in is inexcusable. Same with having your hand down on Leonard and Green 3's. That Cuban video is fine, but can you really say it looked like LeBron was dialed in and ready to compete every possession. I can't excuse coasting in the Finals by somebody that talented, and his effort on defense was shitty. -
We should all be embarrassed of not have picked up on that.TierbsHsotBoobs said:
Hugh Millen's eye test picks a Utah team every time.He_Needs_More_Time said:
I'm using the Hugh Millen eye test when I say this Spurs team is better than that Jazz team.dnc said:
The Jazz were a 7.97 SRS team in 97 and got knocked out in six games. You're putting a hell of a lot of weight in 0.03 points of SRS. 4-2 against 7.97 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1-4 against 8.00.He_Needs_More_Time said:When Jordan retired Pippen was probably the 3rd best player in the game behind Olajuwon and Ewing. Pippen often gets downplayed by the Jordan dick riders I noticed.
I also don't think if you switch Jordan in his prime they win this series. Lebron had his best Finals offensively so what more could have MJ done? I feel like this thread needs to re-watch this videohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAkVnlA9CJo
You guys are pulling a Bayless with this shit of "Jordan would have willed his team, he would have wanted it more".
This Spurs team is better than any team Jordan has ever defeated in his career. That's a fact. They had an 8.0 SRS rating for this year which is pretty fucking good.
Jordan you all forget before Pippen got good couldn't get past great teams on his own and was 1-9 in the first round before Pippen was drafted.
Also I think Jordan had a better supporting cast than this current Heat team. Pippen in any of those 6 titles was better than this years Wade. Ron Harper although on the downside was better than Chalmers/Cole. Grant/Rodman vs Bosh is whatever you prefer. Bosh better offensively but those two were better defenders/rebounders. Cartwright/Longley sadly are better than any big man Miami has currently.
Bench? Kukoc in 1996-98 is better than 2014 Ray Allen. Steve Kerr this current Heat team doesn't even have a Steve Kerr(I guess Cole?).
You guys are reminding me of Doogman with this shit. It's classic First Take narrative let's be lazy and blame the super star and act like Magic, Bird, MJ and Kobe(In my opinion doesn't belong with those three yet his fans constantly insist that he does) never ever had a bad moment. Magic never got swept in the finals in 1983 and 1989, never lost in the playoffs in 5 games in 1985, 1990 or 1991. Bird never repeated as a champion but that is ignored same with his first title someone else won Finals MVP.
You're right there's too much criticism being heaped at Lebron, but if you insist on comparing him to Jordan he's going to continue to look like shit. Jordan >>>>>>>>>>> Lebron.
Also I think Jordan is better than Lebron. I don't think Jordan in his prime on this Heat they win the series against the Spurs. Just my opinion as I think Lebron played a good series I really do. In 2011 he didn't and I was there to throw stones towards him.
I really don't think that. These Spurs are too deep, too team oriented, too focused, well coached and they spent 12 months wanting Miami. They looked like a team wanting revenge, while Miami looked like a tired ass team who just played four straight finals.
whitey -
If Miami's supporting cast is so bad, how did they win the past two championships? Before this series, the narrative was that Wade looked his best in 3 years. Then he has a couple bad games and he's completely washed up. He averaged 19 a game on 55% shooting this season. He's not Dwayne Wade from 2006, but he's still a good player. Last year Ginobili was washed up after playing shitty in the Finals, this year he's somehow better. That's the fickle nature of sports.
Chris Bosh isn't worth his contract, but he's a good player. Hits open jumpers, plays solid defense, isn't selfish. Ray Allen will always hit open 3's. He's a liability on defense, but he was last year too. I couldn't believe how well Lewis played against Indiana and he played decent early in this series. Battier went from being useful last year to completely washed up this year. He hit 6 3's in game 7 last year. Birdman is a solid back up big guy who sometimes changes games with his effort and hustle.
Chalmers and Cole aren't good, but people were praising Cole's defense before this series. Chalmers has been a key component to their championship teams and always seemed to have a big game or 2 when the Heat needed it. The Heat need to make some tweaks, but this is far from a terrible supporting cast. LeBron is lumped in with the rest of them. There wasn't one guy on the Heat that played well this series despite LeBron's empty stats. -
Miami's supporting cast, almost in its entirety got a year older and worse. Wade, Battier, Allen, Haslem were all clearly worse. Lets remember that SA should have won in 6 last year. Miami clearly peaked the year before that, got some luck last year and was on the decline this year.
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HeretoBeatmyChest said:
Miami's supporting cast, almost in its entirety got a year older and worse. Wade, Battier, Allen, Haslem were all clearly worse. Lets remember that SA should have won in 6 last year. Miami clearly peaked the year before that, got some luck last year and was on the decline this year.
THIS. Not one Miami player who is better in 2014 than he was in 2013. Not one. -
True.He_Needs_More_Time said:HeretoBeatmyChest said:Miami's supporting cast, almost in its entirety got a year older and worse. Wade, Battier, Allen, Haslem were all clearly worse. Lets remember that SA should have won in 6 last year. Miami clearly peaked the year before that, got some luck last year and was on the decline this year.
THIS. Not one Miami player who is better in 2014 than he was in 2013. Not one. -
while he played an outstanding game 7, I don't really give lebron a whole lot of credit for last year.HeretoBeatmyChest said:Miami's supporting cast, almost in its entirety got a year older and worse. Wade, Battier, Allen, Haslem were all clearly worse. Lets remember that SA should have won in 6 last year. Miami clearly peaked the year before that, got some luck last year and was on the decline this year.
That said he's the best player in the league, but he isn't close to Jordan. Lebron was not good in the last few minutes of game 6 and allen saved him. 2011 also never happens to Jordan either. -
I never said Lebron was at fault for this one. While APAG's point isn't totally invalid this was an old team getting exposed
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Lebron wouldn't have even won a 2nd title if it wasn't for his team last finals... But let's ignore that and only use the team argument when it is conveinant.
No one is saying he is bad, he just isn't on the level of Jordan, Duncan, Magic etc. All the greats.
We always hear about how he makes his team soooo much better yet when he has lackluster defense that same argument doesn't apply?
He is 2-3 in the finals. 5-11 against the Spurs in the finals.
He isn't this mythical figure of a player everyone makes him out to be yet. He still has a chance to get there, but if this finals showed me anything its that he is soft compared to most of the players he is trying to reach.
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