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25% for everyone is barely taxed for the most well off of us. We're not heavily taxed now.SFGbob said:
Which does nothing to address your fucking lie about people here are advocating for a "barely taxed" completely unregulated form of Capitalism. But I hope your strawman ass fuck makes your feel better Dazzler.HHusky said:
Flat taxers are morons. You can get the tax code to incentivize and disincentivize all sorts of things when you're not a simpleton.SFGbob said:
And by "barely taxed" the Dazzler is referring to tax rate of 25%.HHusky said:
Regulated capitalism with progressive taxation can do it, but that's not what the TugCon universe is preaching. Unregulated, barely taxed capitalism is their ideal, and that does NOT lift "entire societies out of poverty". As every economist worth a damn knows, unregulated capitalism explodes like a diesel engine without a governor.creepycoug said:
Then what does?HHusky said:
Capitalism doesn't raise entire societies out of poverty. Capitalism's biggest fans don't make that argument. Didn't any of you girls take any economics courses?pawz said:
Absolutely. Our kids NEED to know how capitalism raises entire societies out of poverty better than any other system - AINEC.HHusky said:Time to suggest equal time for the other side?
Anyway, the converse of Black Lives Matter is that they don't.
And, in fact capitalism’s biggest fans, indeed even its intellectual antithesis, say otherwise. Even Marx acknowledged capitalism’s unique ability to reduce and often entirely limit, scarcity.
Interested in your serious response here.
The funny thing is, the die hard anarcho-capitalists here think capitalism is fragile. But capitalism doesn't whither in the presence of regulation; it thrives. It does so because it is vital and it can harness human motivations to increase wealth for a society, but not without taking its classic problems into account as well. -
Who said 25% for everyone my strawman ass fucking Kunt of friend? Taxing anyone at 25% isn't "barely taxing" them. You're a stupid as you are dishonest Dazzler.HHusky said:
25% for everyone is barely taxed for the most well off of us. We're not heavily taxed now.SFGbob said:
Which does nothing to address your fucking lie about people here are advocating for a "barely taxed" completely unregulated form of Capitalism. But I hope your strawman ass fuck makes your feel better Dazzler.HHusky said:
Flat taxers are morons. You can get the tax code to incentivize and disincentivize all sorts of things when you're not a simpleton.SFGbob said:
And by "barely taxed" the Dazzler is referring to tax rate of 25%.HHusky said:
Regulated capitalism with progressive taxation can do it, but that's not what the TugCon universe is preaching. Unregulated, barely taxed capitalism is their ideal, and that does NOT lift "entire societies out of poverty". As every economist worth a damn knows, unregulated capitalism explodes like a diesel engine without a governor.creepycoug said:
Then what does?HHusky said:
Capitalism doesn't raise entire societies out of poverty. Capitalism's biggest fans don't make that argument. Didn't any of you girls take any economics courses?pawz said:
Absolutely. Our kids NEED to know how capitalism raises entire societies out of poverty better than any other system - AINEC.HHusky said:Time to suggest equal time for the other side?
Anyway, the converse of Black Lives Matter is that they don't.
And, in fact capitalism’s biggest fans, indeed even its intellectual antithesis, say otherwise. Even Marx acknowledged capitalism’s unique ability to reduce and often entirely limit, scarcity.
Interested in your serious response here.
The funny thing is, the die hard anarcho-capitalists here think capitalism is fragile. But capitalism doesn't whither in the presence of regulation; it thrives. It does so because it is vital and it can harness human motivations to increase wealth for a society, but not without taking its classic problems into account as well. -
But capitalism is laissez-faire. That is its intellectual essence. Of course we make exceptions and dabble in socialist policy (and of course when we do that it's almost always fraught with inefficiency, but that's another chat). But to support capitalism is to support liberty and freedom for markets to work things out. Regulation is necessary on the margins. Most people acknowledge that. But it's always a question of degree and necessesity. In the end, though, to believe in capitalism is to believe in allowing markets to work as free from external interference as possible.HHusky said:
Perhaps you missed the TugCon memo. When they say capitalism, they're talking laissez-faire. Anything less is socialism.GreenRiverGatorz said:
Who said unfettered? The point is that even Communist China can thank countless ventures into capitalism for boosting nearly a billion people into the middle class.HHusky said:
China is your example of unfettered capitalism?GreenRiverGatorz said:
Not even the Chinese would agree with you.HHusky said:
Capitalism doesn't raise entire societies out of poverty. Capitalism's biggest fans don't make that argument. Didn't any of you girls take any economics courses?pawz said:
Absolutely. Our kids NEED to know how capitalism raises entire societies out of poverty better than any other system - AINEC.HHusky said:Time to suggest equal time for the other side?
Anyway, the converse of Black Lives Matter is that they don't.
Good luck with that. -
So you want just a top rate of 25%? The middle class will get to make up the difference. The poor don't have the money.SFGbob said:
Who said 25% for everyone my strawman ass fucking Kunt of friend? Taxing anyone at 25% isn't "barely taxing" them. You're a stupid as you are dishonest Dazzler.HHusky said:
25% for everyone is barely taxed for the most well off of us. We're not heavily taxed now.SFGbob said:
Which does nothing to address your fucking lie about people here are advocating for a "barely taxed" completely unregulated form of Capitalism. But I hope your strawman ass fuck makes your feel better Dazzler.HHusky said:
Flat taxers are morons. You can get the tax code to incentivize and disincentivize all sorts of things when you're not a simpleton.SFGbob said:
And by "barely taxed" the Dazzler is referring to tax rate of 25%.HHusky said:
Regulated capitalism with progressive taxation can do it, but that's not what the TugCon universe is preaching. Unregulated, barely taxed capitalism is their ideal, and that does NOT lift "entire societies out of poverty". As every economist worth a damn knows, unregulated capitalism explodes like a diesel engine without a governor.creepycoug said:
Then what does?HHusky said:
Capitalism doesn't raise entire societies out of poverty. Capitalism's biggest fans don't make that argument. Didn't any of you girls take any economics courses?pawz said:
Absolutely. Our kids NEED to know how capitalism raises entire societies out of poverty better than any other system - AINEC.HHusky said:Time to suggest equal time for the other side?
Anyway, the converse of Black Lives Matter is that they don't.
And, in fact capitalism’s biggest fans, indeed even its intellectual antithesis, say otherwise. Even Marx acknowledged capitalism’s unique ability to reduce and often entirely limit, scarcity.
Interested in your serious response here.
The funny thing is, the die hard anarcho-capitalists here think capitalism is fragile. But capitalism doesn't whither in the presence of regulation; it thrives. It does so because it is vital and it can harness human motivations to increase wealth for a society, but not without taking its classic problems into account as well. -
You could always cut spending and live with in your means of what a 25% tax rate would provide. I want limited government. Unlike you I'm a real conservative and not a fucking fraud like you.HHusky said:
So you want just a top rate of 25%? The middle class will get to make up the difference. The poor don't have the money.SFGbob said:
Who said 25% for everyone my strawman ass fucking Kunt of friend? Taxing anyone at 25% isn't "barely taxing" them. You're a stupid as you are dishonest Dazzler.HHusky said:
25% for everyone is barely taxed for the most well off of us. We're not heavily taxed now.SFGbob said:
Which does nothing to address your fucking lie about people here are advocating for a "barely taxed" completely unregulated form of Capitalism. But I hope your strawman ass fuck makes your feel better Dazzler.HHusky said:
Flat taxers are morons. You can get the tax code to incentivize and disincentivize all sorts of things when you're not a simpleton.SFGbob said:
And by "barely taxed" the Dazzler is referring to tax rate of 25%.HHusky said:
Regulated capitalism with progressive taxation can do it, but that's not what the TugCon universe is preaching. Unregulated, barely taxed capitalism is their ideal, and that does NOT lift "entire societies out of poverty". As every economist worth a damn knows, unregulated capitalism explodes like a diesel engine without a governor.creepycoug said:
Then what does?HHusky said:
Capitalism doesn't raise entire societies out of poverty. Capitalism's biggest fans don't make that argument. Didn't any of you girls take any economics courses?pawz said:
Absolutely. Our kids NEED to know how capitalism raises entire societies out of poverty better than any other system - AINEC.HHusky said:Time to suggest equal time for the other side?
Anyway, the converse of Black Lives Matter is that they don't.
And, in fact capitalism’s biggest fans, indeed even its intellectual antithesis, say otherwise. Even Marx acknowledged capitalism’s unique ability to reduce and often entirely limit, scarcity.
Interested in your serious response here.
The funny thing is, the die hard anarcho-capitalists here think capitalism is fragile. But capitalism doesn't whither in the presence of regulation; it thrives. It does so because it is vital and it can harness human motivations to increase wealth for a society, but not without taking its classic problems into account as well. -
The argument was that "entire societies" are lifted out of poverty by capitalism, which you agree means virtually unrestrained capitalism. You can make an argument that you want unrestrained capitalism despite its harsher effects, but you cannot make the argument that it lifts entire societies out of poverty. It does not do that.creepycoug said:
But capitalism is laissez-faire. That is its intellectual essence. Of course we make exceptions and dabble in socialist policy (and of course when we do that it's almost always fraught with inefficiency, but that's another chat). But to support capitalism is to support liberty and freedom for markets to work things out. Regulation is necessary on the margins. Most people acknowledge that. But it's always a question of degree and necessesity. In the end, though, to believe in capitalism is to believe in allowing markets to work as free from external interference as possible.HHusky said:
Perhaps you missed the TugCon memo. When they say capitalism, they're talking laissez-faire. Anything less is socialism.GreenRiverGatorz said:
Who said unfettered? The point is that even Communist China can thank countless ventures into capitalism for boosting nearly a billion people into the middle class.HHusky said:
China is your example of unfettered capitalism?GreenRiverGatorz said:
Not even the Chinese would agree with you.HHusky said:
Capitalism doesn't raise entire societies out of poverty. Capitalism's biggest fans don't make that argument. Didn't any of you girls take any economics courses?pawz said:
Absolutely. Our kids NEED to know how capitalism raises entire societies out of poverty better than any other system - AINEC.HHusky said:Time to suggest equal time for the other side?
Anyway, the converse of Black Lives Matter is that they don't.
Good luck with that. -
I responded to another one of your posts, and that response applies equally here. Even purists would probably agree with some amount of regulation. For example, capital markets need oversight. It's basic law enforcement, really. Without regulatory protection from fraud, market participants would have little faith in capital markets. If that were to happen on a large scale, capital aggregation wouldn't exist as we know it today and we'd not have the economy and the plethora of goods and services that we presently enjoy. So there's that level of regulated capitalism.HHusky said:
Regulated capitalism with progressive taxation can do it, but that's not what the TugCon universe is preaching. Unregulated, barely taxed capitalism is their ideal, and that does NOT lift "entire societies out of poverty". As every economist worth a damn knows, unregulated capitalism explodes like a diesel engine without a governor.creepycoug said:
Then what does?HHusky said:
Capitalism doesn't raise entire societies out of poverty. Capitalism's biggest fans don't make that argument. Didn't any of you girls take any economics courses?pawz said:
Absolutely. Our kids NEED to know how capitalism raises entire societies out of poverty better than any other system - AINEC.HHusky said:Time to suggest equal time for the other side?
Anyway, the converse of Black Lives Matter is that they don't.
And, in fact capitalism’s biggest fans, indeed even its intellectual antithesis, say otherwise. Even Marx acknowledged capitalism’s unique ability to reduce and often entirely limit, scarcity.
Interested in your serious response here.
The funny thing is, the die hard anarcho-capitalists here think capitalism is fragile. But capitalism doesn't whither in the presence of regulation; it thrives. It does so because it is vital and it can harness human motivations to increase wealth for a society, but not without taking its classic problems into account as well.
The problem is one of degree. Serious voices here would engage in a reasonable discussion about the right kinds and degrees of regulation. But they are correct in noting that there has been a tectonic shift in the number of people who sincerely think we ought to junk our capitalist system and revisit hte concept of private property and wealth distribution. I see it on social media and directly from those I know who are in their 20s and early 30s. They are convinced capitalism has run its course and that it's time for a new system. They have no idea the privileged (true "privilege"; not made-up privilege) position from which they make those assertions, and they have even less idea of how life would look and feel for them under the yoke of a different system.
I don't love capitalism for its own sake. I love it because it works at this particular epoch in human history. We haven't come up with anything better. We may, and probably will, evolve from it to something even better; but that will be a long time in coming IMO. Given where we are today, it's still the best system. -
I'd do fine in your system and my tax cut would be enormous. But being conservative also means living in hard-headed reality. Limited government isn't ever coming back. Maybe you'd still want small government even if you could foresee what it would necessarily mean, and I'd love to know which entitlements you advocate we default on. But 90% of Daddy's base would run like Hell from your small government. So short of your vision being imposed upon us by an outside force, it isn't happening.SFGbob said:
You could always cut spending and live with in your means of what a 25% tax rate would provide. I want limited government. Unlike you I'm a real conservative and not a fucking fraud like you.HHusky said:
So you want just a top rate of 25%? The middle class will get to make up the difference. The poor don't have the money.SFGbob said:
Who said 25% for everyone my strawman ass fucking Kunt of friend? Taxing anyone at 25% isn't "barely taxing" them. You're a stupid as you are dishonest Dazzler.HHusky said:
25% for everyone is barely taxed for the most well off of us. We're not heavily taxed now.SFGbob said:
Which does nothing to address your fucking lie about people here are advocating for a "barely taxed" completely unregulated form of Capitalism. But I hope your strawman ass fuck makes your feel better Dazzler.HHusky said:
Flat taxers are morons. You can get the tax code to incentivize and disincentivize all sorts of things when you're not a simpleton.SFGbob said:
And by "barely taxed" the Dazzler is referring to tax rate of 25%.HHusky said:
Regulated capitalism with progressive taxation can do it, but that's not what the TugCon universe is preaching. Unregulated, barely taxed capitalism is their ideal, and that does NOT lift "entire societies out of poverty". As every economist worth a damn knows, unregulated capitalism explodes like a diesel engine without a governor.creepycoug said:
Then what does?HHusky said:
Capitalism doesn't raise entire societies out of poverty. Capitalism's biggest fans don't make that argument. Didn't any of you girls take any economics courses?pawz said:
Absolutely. Our kids NEED to know how capitalism raises entire societies out of poverty better than any other system - AINEC.HHusky said:Time to suggest equal time for the other side?
Anyway, the converse of Black Lives Matter is that they don't.
And, in fact capitalism’s biggest fans, indeed even its intellectual antithesis, say otherwise. Even Marx acknowledged capitalism’s unique ability to reduce and often entirely limit, scarcity.
Interested in your serious response here.
The funny thing is, the die hard anarcho-capitalists here think capitalism is fragile. But capitalism doesn't whither in the presence of regulation; it thrives. It does so because it is vital and it can harness human motivations to increase wealth for a society, but not without taking its classic problems into account as well.
I'd like to be able to fly unassisted, but I don't pretend or base my politics in anticipation that it will ever happen. -
You could have posted something around what I or @creepycoug posted about capitalism...HHusky said:
I'd do fine in your system and my tax cut would be enormous. But being conservative also means living in hard-headed reality. Limited government isn't ever coming back. Maybe you'd still want small government even if you could foresee what it would necessarily mean, and I'd love to know which entitlements you advocate we default on. But 90% of Daddy's base would run like Hell from your small government. So short of your vision being imposed upon us by an outside force, it isn't happening.SFGbob said:
You could always cut spending and live with in your means of what a 25% tax rate would provide. I want limited government. Unlike you I'm a real conservative and not a fucking fraud like you.HHusky said:
So you want just a top rate of 25%? The middle class will get to make up the difference. The poor don't have the money.SFGbob said:
Who said 25% for everyone my strawman ass fucking Kunt of friend? Taxing anyone at 25% isn't "barely taxing" them. You're a stupid as you are dishonest Dazzler.HHusky said:
25% for everyone is barely taxed for the most well off of us. We're not heavily taxed now.SFGbob said:
Which does nothing to address your fucking lie about people here are advocating for a "barely taxed" completely unregulated form of Capitalism. But I hope your strawman ass fuck makes your feel better Dazzler.HHusky said:
Flat taxers are morons. You can get the tax code to incentivize and disincentivize all sorts of things when you're not a simpleton.SFGbob said:
And by "barely taxed" the Dazzler is referring to tax rate of 25%.HHusky said:
Regulated capitalism with progressive taxation can do it, but that's not what the TugCon universe is preaching. Unregulated, barely taxed capitalism is their ideal, and that does NOT lift "entire societies out of poverty". As every economist worth a damn knows, unregulated capitalism explodes like a diesel engine without a governor.creepycoug said:
Then what does?HHusky said:
Capitalism doesn't raise entire societies out of poverty. Capitalism's biggest fans don't make that argument. Didn't any of you girls take any economics courses?pawz said:
Absolutely. Our kids NEED to know how capitalism raises entire societies out of poverty better than any other system - AINEC.HHusky said:Time to suggest equal time for the other side?
Anyway, the converse of Black Lives Matter is that they don't.
And, in fact capitalism’s biggest fans, indeed even its intellectual antithesis, say otherwise. Even Marx acknowledged capitalism’s unique ability to reduce and often entirely limit, scarcity.
Interested in your serious response here.
The funny thing is, the die hard anarcho-capitalists here think capitalism is fragile. But capitalism doesn't whither in the presence of regulation; it thrives. It does so because it is vital and it can harness human motivations to increase wealth for a society, but not without taking its classic problems into account as well.
I'd like to be able to fly unassisted, but I don't pretend or base my politics in anticipation that it will ever happen.
instead you tried to beat up a self created straw man and still fell on your face with the “ But capitalism doesn't whither in the presence of regulation; it thrives.” stupidity
Now you are walking it back to some weird pragmatism argument
Maybe the next thread you’ll do better. -
People who want to ditch capitalism perceive it as not working for them and unlikely to work for them. Part of that is just youth, but the current 20 and 30 somethings really do face a much tougher road than old goats like me did. People on this board paid less than $1,000 a year in college tuition, for example; I'm one of them. Housing wasn't an unaffordable luxury either. And the youngsters aren't having any kids, which will have long term ramifications and should indicate to us that something has changed.creepycoug said:
I responded to another one of your posts, and that response applies equally here. Even purists would probably agree with some amount of regulation. For example, capital markets need oversight. It's basic law enforcement, really. Without regulatory protection from fraud, market participants would have little faith in capital markets. If that were to happen on a large scale, capital aggregation wouldn't exist as we know it today and we'd not have the economy and the plethora of goods and services that we presently enjoy. So there's that level of regulated capitalism.HHusky said:
Regulated capitalism with progressive taxation can do it, but that's not what the TugCon universe is preaching. Unregulated, barely taxed capitalism is their ideal, and that does NOT lift "entire societies out of poverty". As every economist worth a damn knows, unregulated capitalism explodes like a diesel engine without a governor.creepycoug said:
Then what does?HHusky said:
Capitalism doesn't raise entire societies out of poverty. Capitalism's biggest fans don't make that argument. Didn't any of you girls take any economics courses?pawz said:
Absolutely. Our kids NEED to know how capitalism raises entire societies out of poverty better than any other system - AINEC.HHusky said:Time to suggest equal time for the other side?
Anyway, the converse of Black Lives Matter is that they don't.
And, in fact capitalism’s biggest fans, indeed even its intellectual antithesis, say otherwise. Even Marx acknowledged capitalism’s unique ability to reduce and often entirely limit, scarcity.
Interested in your serious response here.
The funny thing is, the die hard anarcho-capitalists here think capitalism is fragile. But capitalism doesn't whither in the presence of regulation; it thrives. It does so because it is vital and it can harness human motivations to increase wealth for a society, but not without taking its classic problems into account as well.
The problem is one of degree. Serious voices here would engage in a reasonable discussion about the right kinds and degrees of regulation. But they are correct in noting that there has been a tectonic shift in the number of people who sincerely think we ought to junk our capitalist system and revisit hte concept of private property and wealth distribution. I see it on social media and directly from those I know who are in their 20s and early 30s. They are convinced capitalism has run its course and that it's time for a new system. They have no idea the privileged (true "privilege"; not made-up privilege) position from which they make those assertions, and they have even less idea of how life would look and feel for them under the yoke of a different system.
I don't love capitalism for its own sake. I love it because it works at this particular epoch in human history. We haven't come up with anything better. We may, and probably will, evolve from it to something even better; but that will be a long time in coming IMO. Given where we are today, it's still the best system.
Capitalism isn't really going away anytime soon, despite the sloganeering. But the rules favoring capital relative to labor have made it very unlikely that the young generation will ever come to have any affection for capitalism absent some course corrections and meaningful improvements to their lives. You know as well as I do that Communism got a toe hold in America during the 1930s. FDR's New Deal was very much intended to save capitalism. I'd like to acknowledge capitalism's shortcomings, and address them, without getting rid of it.
