Here it is ... Pac-12 Football Unity Demands
Comments
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@creepycoug I will acknowledge that my white, middle class privilege enabled me to attend U of W without a scholarship. 2 years out of state (at 1990s prices) and 2 years in state. But getting to fly on plane trips paid for by UW and compete in Pac 12 and natty races was a pretty rewarding experience. TYFYS to all you amateur football players who made this possible.creepycoug said:
Then there's this, which I shudder to admit here. As you know Yella, I have a bit of arrogance in me by which I come naturally along with my hot temper, good looks and dance moves.YellowSnow said:
I'm like 10th generation @creepycoug . My Engrish is not skrong.creepycoug said:YellowSnow said:For the life of me, I am having a hard damn time understanding the logic of the college football players wishing to be paid employees. For the 2% (or whatever the actual number is) who are good enough for the pros, they will get their payday after 3- 4 years AND as @RaceBannon has pointed out numerous times, the college football experience is far better than whatever some shitty NFL minor league would look like. College football is the 2nd most popular sport in America; and NFL farm system would not match this.
For the 98% who aren't good enough to earn a living, quit you bitching about how college football being "big business". Is there some huge surplus of profit going into some owner's pocket? All that revenue (after football expenses) circulates back into the athletic department to fund the non revenue programs. Why should some 2nd or 3rd string D-1 football player who isn't pro material anymore entitled to be paid than a women's soccer player?
College sports is for amateurs. Pro sports are for professionals. This isn't that hard.
There is, to me, some appeal, or at least intrigue, to reverting back to the ideal of the real-student athlete. As you know, I've been in that environment now for the last 5 years, and once you're invested, it can be a good tim. It reminds you that the connection to the place is a lot of what matters as a fan. I don't think it'll happen becuase there are too many powerful interests with a dog in the fight.
Catching a tilt between Middlebury and Amherst wasn't the worst way I've ever spent a Saturday afternoon. And, the further away from men's football and basketball you get, the less noticeable the difference tends to be. But for those two sports especially, it's a whole different level. -
Grundle you know I don't like mingling with the riff raff.GrundleStiltzkin said:
Chintellectually, agree.creepycoug said:
I've been worried about this for years. Of course, like anyone, I want to preserve what I'm used to. But intellectually the current system has not made much sense to me for years. It's not the capitalist way. I believe we are the only country on the planet that ties sports with college to the degree we do. Everywhere else, you go to college or you go to some club place to do your thing and it goes from there. UW, as a universtiy, would be just fine w/o sports. It would feel a lot different for those of us who were there with sports, but over time, that memory would fade.RaceBannon said:The players need a minor league separate from college. Part of transforming America. Time for a change
I'm with them. Divorce football and universities.
Enter the workforce for the NFL minor league
But fuck Europe and their sports clubs and shit. I love the anachronism of AMERICAN college football and I guess the other sports too. It's OK that weº do things different than the rest of the world.
I don't know nor care about how Belgium or France is setup. I do know that the British amateur sports system was implicitly, if not explicitly, elitist. It was construed in such a way that only aristocrats could afford to partake. The American system shares those roots with the Ivies, but over time evolved to be egalitarian and meritocratic. -
I don't have time to debate this. I'm needed at the polo grounds.creepycoug said:
Grundle you know I don't like mingling with the riff raff.GrundleStiltzkin said:
Chintellectually, agree.creepycoug said:
I've been worried about this for years. Of course, like anyone, I want to preserve what I'm used to. But intellectually the current system has not made much sense to me for years. It's not the capitalist way. I believe we are the only country on the planet that ties sports with college to the degree we do. Everywhere else, you go to college or you go to some club place to do your thing and it goes from there. UW, as a universtiy, would be just fine w/o sports. It would feel a lot different for those of us who were there with sports, but over time, that memory would fade.RaceBannon said:The players need a minor league separate from college. Part of transforming America. Time for a change
I'm with them. Divorce football and universities.
Enter the workforce for the NFL minor league
But fuck Europe and their sports clubs and shit. I love the anachronism of AMERICAN college football and I guess the other sports too. It's OK that weº do things different than the rest of the world.
I don't know nor care about how Belgium or France is setup. I do know that the British amateur sports system was implicitly, if not explicitly, elitist. It was construed in such a way that only aristocrats could afford to partake. The American system shares those roots with the Ivies, but over time evolved to be egalitarian and meritocratic. -
They sold the couch, brah.GrundleStiltzkin said:
I don't have time to debate this. I'm needed at the polo grounds.creepycoug said:
Grundle you know I don't like mingling with the riff raff.GrundleStiltzkin said:
Chintellectually, agree.creepycoug said:
I've been worried about this for years. Of course, like anyone, I want to preserve what I'm used to. But intellectually the current system has not made much sense to me for years. It's not the capitalist way. I believe we are the only country on the planet that ties sports with college to the degree we do. Everywhere else, you go to college or you go to some club place to do your thing and it goes from there. UW, as a universtiy, would be just fine w/o sports. It would feel a lot different for those of us who were there with sports, but over time, that memory would fade.RaceBannon said:The players need a minor league separate from college. Part of transforming America. Time for a change
I'm with them. Divorce football and universities.
Enter the workforce for the NFL minor league
But fuck Europe and their sports clubs and shit. I love the anachronism of AMERICAN college football and I guess the other sports too. It's OK that weº do things different than the rest of the world.
I don't know nor care about how Belgium or France is setup. I do know that the British amateur sports system was implicitly, if not explicitly, elitist. It was construed in such a way that only aristocrats could afford to partake. The American system shares those roots with the Ivies, but over time evolved to be egalitarian and meritocratic.
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Don't get near the ass end of @SpiritHorse . You are either getting shit on or catching a hoof.GrundleStiltzkin said:
I don't have time to debate this. I'm needed at the polo grounds.creepycoug said:
Grundle you know I don't like mingling with the riff raff.GrundleStiltzkin said:
Chintellectually, agree.creepycoug said:
I've been worried about this for years. Of course, like anyone, I want to preserve what I'm used to. But intellectually the current system has not made much sense to me for years. It's not the capitalist way. I believe we are the only country on the planet that ties sports with college to the degree we do. Everywhere else, you go to college or you go to some club place to do your thing and it goes from there. UW, as a universtiy, would be just fine w/o sports. It would feel a lot different for those of us who were there with sports, but over time, that memory would fade.RaceBannon said:The players need a minor league separate from college. Part of transforming America. Time for a change
I'm with them. Divorce football and universities.
Enter the workforce for the NFL minor league
But fuck Europe and their sports clubs and shit. I love the anachronism of AMERICAN college football and I guess the other sports too. It's OK that weº do things different than the rest of the world.
I don't know nor care about how Belgium or France is setup. I do know that the British amateur sports system was implicitly, if not explicitly, elitist. It was construed in such a way that only aristocrats could afford to partake. The American system shares those roots with the Ivies, but over time evolved to be egalitarian and meritocratic. -
I agree numbers are off, but 75k (tuition, room / board, books, supplies) for Stanford is impressive. Not to mention the UW out of state tuition is 37k per year. Room and board probably boost it closer to 50k. Still substantial. The poont is all of the benefits the guys get it's not anywhere close to what the average student is receiving. BTW, THE U tuition isn't far off of Stanford. It's insane what New Yorkers will spend to study near the beach.creepycoug said:
I stopped reading after $120K. Most big-tim sports are played at state universities, and it doesn't cost $120k / yr. for tuition and room/board. It also doesn't cost 120k/year for tuition/room/board/books at Stanford. So whatever he had to say after that, I didn't get to it.huskyhooligan said:Chintersting tweet thread from cofounder of Ford Sports. As Coker and DDY and others have pointed out, something that should be celebrated about college sports is the education. Tracy Ford knows that a majority of his kids are not going to make it to the NFL, but he does know his efforts can lead to helping kids get a college education. What you do with it is a up to you.
First and foremost the numbers just don't add up.
These guys need to put their situation in perspective. A lot of kids they went to high school with would love to be in their situation. They probably have former classmates who are missing the opportunity to go to school, loved playing football, but didn't win the genetic lottery a lot of these kids have. Hell even their own siblings.
With regards to shitty degrees, there are academic programs at the UW, that have been created, with athletes in mind, that have been marketed to athletes for years, which have been overwhelmingly ignored by football and basketball players. -
Not reading it because the headline is tiresome enough.
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Why would we pay college football players when 98% of them are not professional sports material?GrundleStiltzkin said:Not reading it because the headline is tiresome enough.
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Science?YellowSnow said:
Why would we pay college football players when 98% of them are not professional sports material?GrundleStiltzkin said:Not reading it because the headline is tiresome enough.
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The basic story on college football is that the NFL and Players Union have agreed to maximize the revenue for the league owners and largely black players. That agreement includes rookie salary caps, three year wait after high school to join the union, a 53 man active squad plus a 12 member practice squad and revenue sharing and a hard salary cap. The NFL has tried a minor league team. It failed. So, assuming the end of the three year post high school rule, for the really small number of 18-20 year olds that could make the league, for every player that makes the league, a veteran player is cut. On an overall basis, nothing changes. No more money to players and potentially less as college football is negatively impacted and less fans will follow their favorite college players to the NFL. The NFL draft makes millions with a lot of attention from college fans following the draft. The NFL draft is incredibly impactful because the players drafted are ready to play. Drafting 18 year olds who nobody has seen play isn't exciting.
The myth is that the NFL is taking money out of the hands of potential black players. That's true, but then veteran players (who are largely black) have money taken away from them. This isn't the man keeping blacks down. -
Fucking spot on Quook.WestlinnDuck said:The basic story on college football is that the NFL and Players Union have agreed to maximize the revenue for the league owners and largely black players. That agreement includes rookie salary caps, three year wait after high school to join the union, a 53 man active squad plus a 12 member practice squad and revenue sharing and a hard salary cap. The NFL has tried a minor league team. It failed. So, assuming the end of the three year post high school rule, for the really small number of 18-20 year olds that could make the league, for every player that makes the league, a veteran player is cut. On an overall basis, nothing changes. No more money to players and potentially less as college football is negatively impacted and less fans will follow their favorite college players to the NFL. The NFL draft makes millions with a lot of attention from college fans following the draft. The NFL draft is incredibly impactful because the players drafted are ready to play. Drafting 18 year olds who nobody has seen play isn't exciting.
The myth is that the NFL is taking money out of the hands of potential black players. That's true, but then veteran players (who are largely black) have money taken away from them. This isn't the man keeping blacks down. -
It's almost like the current works pretty well for "social justice"- i.e., NFL maximizes earnings potential for athletes with pro caliber talent, and the other 98% get a free college education with greatly enhances earning for non pro sports guys. Or we could just tell the latter to fuck off and do the NFL farm system.WestlinnDuck said:The basic story on college football is that the NFL and Players Union have agreed to maximize the revenue for the league owners and largely black players. That agreement includes rookie salary caps, three year wait after high school to join the union, a 53 man active squad plus a 12 member practice squad and revenue sharing and a hard salary cap. The NFL has tried a minor league team. It failed. So, assuming the end of the three year post high school rule, for the really small number of 18-20 year olds that could make the league, for every player that makes the league, a veteran player is cut. On an overall basis, nothing changes. No more money to players and potentially less as college football is negatively impacted and less fans will follow their favorite college players to the NFL. The NFL draft makes millions with a lot of attention from college fans following the draft. The NFL draft is incredibly impactful because the players drafted are ready to play. Drafting 18 year olds who nobody has seen play isn't exciting.
The myth is that the NFL is taking money out of the hands of potential black players. That's true, but then veteran players (who are largely black) have money taken away from them. This isn't the man keeping blacks down. -
Entertainers not understanding that they are beholden to the irrational expenditure of dollars while living well above their respective peers and often their paying fans is so fucking irritating...
If you are a college athlete you have exponentially more resources thrown at you, before, during and after graduation than some nobody GRINDING through school that got in because they got good grades in high school... The disparity is even more pronounced at large 45K student schools like UW.
Playing football is voluntary, the practical value created is minimal, the compensation already places you far above your peers...
STFU and be happy that humans are irrational enough to give you resources rather than appropriating funds from a voluntary sporting event that gives you free housing, healthcare, food, personal training, tutoring, tuition, and give it to the Biomedical Engineering student studying Cell-Free Protein Synthesis that will create anti viral nanomachines someday instead.
Its hard to imagine a NFL minor league program that doesnt end up looking a lot like some Last Chance U dystopia shit... but instead its for everyone rather than for the 1% that couldnt get their shit together.
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This is such a great fucking post and is so fucking correct that it even managed to make me humble. Well done.Houhusky said:Entertainers not understanding that they are beholden to the irrational expenditure of dollars while living well above their respective peers and often their paying fans is so fucking irritating...
If you are a college athlete you have exponentially more resources thrown at you, before, during and after graduation than some nobody GRINDING through school that got in because they got good grades in high school... The disparity is even more pronounced at large 45K student schools like UW.
Playing football is voluntary, the practical value created is minimal, the compensation already places you far above your peers...
STFU and be happy that humans are irrational enough to give you resources rather than appropriating funds from a voluntary sporting event that gives you free housing, healthcare, food, personal training, tutoring, tuition, and give it to the Biomedical Engineering student studying Cell-Free Protein Synthesis that will create anti viral nanomachines someday instead.
Its hard to imagine a NFL minor league program that doesnt end up looking a lot like some Last Chance U dystopia shit... but instead its for everyone rather than for the 1% that couldnt get their shit together. -
I especially like @Tequilla 's critique of the "lavish facilities" spending. Seriously, Pac 12 kids, I was fine watching you guys in Old Husky Stadium with its track . Crumbling old stadiums are good enough for the Cubs and Red Sox, so why not college football?
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The fact that no one will care about minor league football doesn't mean minor league football shouldn't replace college football. It needs to happen. We've lost our way.whatshouldicareabout said:
You mean like the XFL? Or the AAF? Or NFL Europe?RaceBannon said:The players need a minor league separate from college. Part of transforming America. Time for a change
I'm with them. Divorce football and universities.
Enter the workforce for the NFL minor league
No one cares about JV football unless it has a college name attached to it. Buckeye alums and their money won't care if some kid in Ohio goes to play for the Columbus JV team. -
I can actually afford it.jecornel said:I’m reading in the news that economy is going to collapse. Who can afford two tickets, a beer and a shitty hot dog?
All these demands won’t matter because we will all be in bread lines. -
This motherfucker smaht.Houhusky said:Entertainers not understanding that they are beholden to the irrational expenditure of dollars while living well above their respective peers and often their paying fans is so fucking irritating...
If you are a college athlete you have exponentially more resources thrown at you, before, during and after graduation than some nobody GRINDING through school that got in because they got good grades in high school... The disparity is even more pronounced at large 45K student schools like UW.
Playing football is voluntary, the practical value created is minimal, the compensation already places you far above your peers...
STFU and be happy that humans are irrational enough to give you resources rather than appropriating funds from a voluntary sporting event that gives you free housing, healthcare, food, personal training, tutoring, tuition, and give it to the Biomedical Engineering student studying Cell-Free Protein Synthesis that will create anti viral nanomachines someday instead.
Its hard to imagine a NFL minor league program that doesnt end up looking a lot like some Last Chance U dystopia shit... but instead its for everyone rather than for the 1% that couldnt get their shit together. -
Swaye said:
This motherfucker a racist pig.Houhusky said:Entertainers not understanding that they are beholden to the irrational expenditure of dollars while living well above their respective peers and often their paying fans is so fucking irritating...
If you are a college athlete you have exponentially more resources thrown at you, before, during and after graduation than some nobody GRINDING through school that got in because they got good grades in high school... The disparity is even more pronounced at large 45K student schools like UW.
Playing football is voluntary, the practical value created is minimal, the compensation already places you far above your peers...
STFU and be happy that humans are irrational enough to give you resources rather than appropriating funds from a voluntary sporting event that gives you free housing, healthcare, food, personal training, tutoring, tuition, and give it to the Biomedical Engineering student studying Cell-Free Protein Synthesis that will create anti viral nanomachines someday instead.
Its hard to imagine a NFL minor league program that doesnt end up looking a lot like some Last Chance U dystopia shit... but instead its for everyone rather than for the 1% that couldnt get their shit together.
