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Kemp for Pippen Trade in 1994

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Comments

  • TierbsHsotBoobs
    TierbsHsotBoobs Member Posts: 39,680

    Flagged for linking Bleacher Report. You of all people should know this.
    Well deserved. I thought about linking another source but then I got lazy.
  • RoadDawg55
    RoadDawg55 Member Posts: 30,386 Standard Supporter
    edited May 2014
    You guys gotta be kidding me. Scottie Pippen was the best 3 in the league. He was first team all NBA in the two years that would have followed the trade, and 2nd team in the third season. Kemp was 2nd team in the years Pippen was first. Pippen was probably the best defensive player in the league at the 2/3. He got around 8 rebounds every season, 5-6 assists, always was near the top in steals. He was arguably the best all around player in the league after Jordan retired. He was the ultimate jack of all trades and could contribute in so many ways. Pippen, Payton, and McMillan would have locked every team down on the perimeter.

    Pippen Win shares from 94-95 to 97-98= 43.8
    94-95 11.8
    95-96 12.3
    96-97 13.1
    97-98 6.6 (Only played half the season because of back injury. Was never the same again, but still a very useful player

    Kemp from 94-95 to 97-98= 38.6
    94-95 10.6
    95-96 11.2
    96-97 10.0
    97-98 6.8 (played full season)

    Both were good, Pippen was better. When you factor in discipline too, there is another check to Pippen. Champion experience? Pippen again. Frankly, other than fit and possibly fan outrage, this deal should have been a no brainer. Pippen won 55 games the year Jordan retired with a garbage team other than Horace Grant. For a few years, he was a great player.
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 11,453

    Flagged for linking Bleacher Report. You of all people should know this.
    Well deserved. I thought about linking another source but then I got lazy.
    Typical PNW build a fucking dynasty for another team. Portland passes on Jordan, Seattle gives them Pippen.

    Yet people wonder why we are so jaded as fans?
  • HeretoBeatmyChest
    HeretoBeatmyChest Member Posts: 4,295
    The trade would have made the Sonics better on paper but vulnerable in the West against Olajuwon, Barkley and Malone.

    The thing about Kemp is he was huge in the 96 playoffs and on his way to being a top 5 player and superstar. Then Wally Walker completely fucked it up. I seriously hate Wally Walker. He should be completely ostracized from any new team in Seattle.
  • Tequilla
    Tequilla Member Posts: 20,220
    It all depends on what the design was.

    In the linked article, there was also mention of a Kendall Gill and Mitch Richmond trade and an attempt to sign Horace Grant at PF.

    First, while Kemp was a great player and one of the better PF of his era, Scottie was arguably the best at his position in the game and one of the greats of all-time (in Bill Simmons' Book of Basketball Pippen was 24th all time and Kemp 88th).

    Second, after the '93-'94 season, it was very clear that Kendall Gill wasn't a great fit on this roster as his game was about having the ball and slashing to the basket. He needed the ball in his hands and that wasn't going to work. Moving him for Mitch Richmond who was a dynamic scorer who was capable of being a catch and shoot guy made a ton of sense. Particularly with Payton and Pippen on the court, you could then hide Richmond on defense fairly easily. Instead, you held onto Gill, watched his stock drop further, and you ended up getting Hersey Hawkins. I love the Hawk but he wasn't Mitch Richmond.

    Third, if you were able to then go out and sign Horace Grant to a deal, you'd solve the PF issue as well as a long-term lingering issue through those Sonics teams of questionable depth. You'd be able to move Det back to the bench and able to play the 3-4 positions and have a very strong 2nd unit - particularly if you also included Ervin Johnson in your starting lineup as that would then push Perkins to the bench. Even if you switched that, when you add Mac10 into the equation, you then had a very deep 8 man rotation with everyone of your bench guys capable of being a starter on a championship caliber club. And that doesn't even include guys like Vincent Askew who were capable of providing solid minutes.

    I can understand being cautious about making the deal. I can understand thinking about the implications of the deal and how you made your lineup better to cover a weakness that would be created. But in the long run, that's a club that has significantly better depth and would have had the flexibility to go small against a team like Phoenix (GP, Mitch, Pippen, Det, and Perkins) or big against a team like Houston (GP, Pip, Det, Grant, Perkins/Johnson). It's a team that probably wins a title and quite possibly 2 or 3. You probably take away Houston's 2nd title, you'd nip the Bulls 2nd 3 peat in the bud, and be better positioned to neutralize a Utah team that couldn't keep up with this depth.

    In the end, Wally Walker was always a pussy looking for an easy solution. He definitely didn't have any forward thought to how the game could or should be played. He had a massive ego (that was never deserved) and instead of working with his coach to try to build the optimal roster based on a desired way of playing he would dictate to the coach the way he should play.
  • RoadDawg55
    RoadDawg55 Member Posts: 30,386 Standard Supporter
    A starting 5 of Payton, Richmond, Pippen, Horace Grant, and E. Johnson (He only played 10-15 min) with Detlef, Perkins, and McMillan off the bench would have been scary good.
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 11,453
    Remember guys Wally had no stones. In December of 1994 he turned down a Drexler to Seattle for Gill and a first rounder.

    Seattle wins a title in 94-95 with that trade.

    Discussing what could have been with those Sonics is as depressing as talking about the Lambo years. Good thing they were happening at once.

    Fuck.
  • RoadDawg55
    RoadDawg55 Member Posts: 30,386 Standard Supporter
    edited May 2014

    Remember guys Wally had no stones. In December of 1994 he turned down a Drexler to Seattle for Gill and a first rounder.

    Seattle wins a title in 94-95 with that trade.

    Discussing what could have been with those Sonics is as depressing as talking about the Lambo years. Good thing they were happening at once.

    Fuck.

    Turned down Drexler? I was too young to remember many of the rumors past Kemp for Pippen. Fuck. I can't believe we went from Drexler or Richmond to Hawkins. I liked Hersey, but he isn't close to those other guys.
  • HeretoBeatmyChest
    HeretoBeatmyChest Member Posts: 4,295

    Remember guys Wally had no stones. In December of 1994 he turned down a Drexler to Seattle for Gill and a first rounder.

    Seattle wins a title in 94-95 with that trade.

    Discussing what could have been with those Sonics is as depressing as talking about the Lambo years. Good thing they were happening at once.

    Fuck.

    The mid 90s should have been the best 3-5 years ever for Seattle sports. You had three championship caliber teams with the exception of the Hawks who had improved from terrible to average.
  • allpurpleallgold
    allpurpleallgold Member Posts: 8,771
    edited May 2014
    Way to much Pippen love in this thread. When MJ was retired even Phil knew to go to Kukoc, not Pippen, with the game on the line. The second best player in the league doesn't get passed over for the last shot in a playoff game. Unless you'd like to criticize Phil Jackson's coaching.

    Kemp was clearly the second best player on the court in the 96 Finals and that was going against Rodman.