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What kind of snake oil bullshit did Donovan sell Lake into thinking he was a worthy hire?
Comments
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@RoadDawg55 really gave me depression in another thread reminding everyone that he held that ass rb coaching position for 4 years without anyone on earth thinking he should be more.
I guess I will wait to see what he does but I will say that the offence has absolutely 0 leash. If they are not competitive and competent game 1 then everyone sucks. -
I'm working on it and it'll probably take me until the end of the week before I have everything built out to get all of the comparisons that I want to look at.Gladstone said:
ok teq my eyes and mind are openTequilla said:
Right ...whatshouldicareabout said:
He's been an OC for 5 years and never had an offense get ranked above 60th in the country.Tequilla said:It's funny reading everybody say that he sucks without really knowing anything about the guy other than some SP+ stats
We fired Hamdan after finishing 41st in the country.
Because Hamdan's talent at hand at UW was comparable to Vandy and Penn St coming off sanctions
Great analysis
let's hear it
But here's what I can say from what I've looked at so far ...
At Vandy
Looking at the offenses while Franklin/Donovan were there versus the year prior/after there's a pretty substantial uptick ... particularly in the passing game. The running game doesn't wow you. There's a definitive performance issue when Vandy was playing against the elite talented programs in the SEC which leads me to think some of those stats are definitely a Jimmy vs Joe issue.
At Penn St
Year 1 is horrid ... and we've heard that there were some substantial talent gaps that were the result of the sanctions and perhaps some questionable talent/recruiting from Bill O'Brien. There was a substantial uptick in Year 2 ... which also coincides with Barkley showing up. The negative side of the coin would be saying that Franklin/Donovan inherited Christian Hackenberg ... I'm not sure how talented he really was. I think it's very possible to think that he was the Penn St version of Browning ... a guy that pretty much was what he was early in his college career and hit his ceiling. I think there's reason to believe that Donovan was the fall guy for what happened in Year 2 as Penn St started 7-2 and then lost their last 4 (to 10-3 Northwestern, 10-3 Michigan, 12-2 Michigan St (CFP team), and 10-3 Georgia). Compared to Moorhead, you can see an uptick for Penn St in 2016 ... but the 2017 numbers on the surface aren't that much different than the 2015 numbers. So I do think it's fair to hypothesize that the uptick in 2016 and 2017 correspond to Penn St just having better and more mature talent overall (Franklin's 1st class at Penn St being 2014 ... so the 2016 and 2017 teams represent primarily his players vs the early years being largely BoB's players).
I'd agree with everybody that the hire on the surface doesn't wow anybody. I think we also know from our own experiences that there are tons of talented people at all levels of an organization that may not be sitting at the highest positions. What I think is important in analyzing what Donovan might bring is understanding where he had successes and failures during his time with Vandy/Penn St and then trying to figure out if those gaps were areas that may have been improved during his NFL days. -
It's just saying that SP+ doesn't tell the full story to me.FremontTroll said:
Because we haven’t gotten your deep deep dive yet. What’d you uncover???Tequilla said:It's funny reading everybody say that he sucks without really knowing anything about the guy other than some SP+ stats
I get that it's a relative measure of performance and designed to normalize a bit.
The reality though is that different programs have different issues/challenges and understanding what happened is important.
It's like saying that a company had median level revenue growth and judging their performance based on that. There's a ton of unanswered questions that need to be answered/addressed in that situation. -
I agree that the resume isn't a slam dunk and there's plenty of reason to view this hire as risky ... notably that he hasn't called plays in 4+ years.FireCohen said:
The issues is Donovan’s track record smells of a fucking loser. And historic performance is pretty decent predictor of the future performance. This is a more risky higher, because unlike some unproven coach without a track record. This dude track record bites dick.Tequilla said:
Right ...whatshouldicareabout said:
He's been an OC for 5 years and never had an offense get ranked above 60th in the country.Tequilla said:It's funny reading everybody say that he sucks without really knowing anything about the guy other than some SP+ stats
We fired Hamdan after finishing 41st in the country.
Because Hamdan's talent at hand at UW was comparable to Vandy and Penn St coming off sanctions
Great analysis
I am rooting for him to be successful, but based on his resume we are in for a rough ride.
Got to give Jimmy credit, he hired a guy that makes slingblade look competent. That took a real search to make that happen
I don't think it's fair to say that his track record smells of a loser from what I'm seeing (improvements can be seen comparatively).
I think what you're really getting in this hire is somebody that has a shared vision with Jimmy Lake in terms of what the offense looks like.
Some of the names that have been thrown out as better hires I have serious questions as to whether their identities match with what Jimmy wants to run. -
Nope ...RoadDawg55 said:
Taking the opposite stance just because I see. It’s a bad hire and he has sucked.Tequilla said:It's funny reading everybody say that he sucks without really knowing anything about the guy other than some SP+ stats
I don't know enough about this hire to say whether he completely sucks or not.
From what I've looked at so far, it's looking like a mixed bag in spots. Some areas encouraging and some areas giving pause.
I'm not going to anchor to a gut feeling upon hearing the news.
I'm not going to spin this hire into a doog view of blindly buying in. When I see areas that are encouraging, I'll call them out. When I see areas for concern, I'll call them out. -
Lulz
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Do you have special knowledge of what Jimmy wants to run outside of "aggressive" and "attacking?" If so, pray tell. If not, what founding do your "serious questions" have?Tequilla said:
...FireCohen said:
The issues is Donovan’s track record smells of a fucking loser. And historic performance is pretty decent predictor of the future performance. This is a more risky higher, because unlike some unproven coach without a track record. This dude track record bites dick.Tequilla said:
Right ...whatshouldicareabout said:
He's been an OC for 5 years and never had an offense get ranked above 60th in the country.Tequilla said:It's funny reading everybody say that he sucks without really knowing anything about the guy other than some SP+ stats
We fired Hamdan after finishing 41st in the country.
Because Hamdan's talent at hand at UW was comparable to Vandy and Penn St coming off sanctions
Great analysis
I am rooting for him to be successful, but based on his resume we are in for a rough ride.
Got to give Jimmy credit, he hired a guy that makes slingblade look competent. That took a real search to make that happen
Some of the names that have been thrown out as better hires I have serious questions as to whether their identities match with what Jimmy wants to run. -
Bad hire on paper. Very little to be excited about. Of course it could work. Everyone is commenting on the hire. If I had to predict, league average would be a plus after this hire.
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I think it's where his actions and words are tellingEmoterman said:
Do you have special knowledge of what Jimmy wants to run outside of "aggressive" and "attacking?" If so, pray tell. If not, what founding do your "serious questions" have?Tequilla said:
...FireCohen said:
The issues is Donovan’s track record smells of a fucking loser. And historic performance is pretty decent predictor of the future performance. This is a more risky higher, because unlike some unproven coach without a track record. This dude track record bites dick.Tequilla said:
Right ...whatshouldicareabout said:
He's been an OC for 5 years and never had an offense get ranked above 60th in the country.Tequilla said:It's funny reading everybody say that he sucks without really knowing anything about the guy other than some SP+ stats
We fired Hamdan after finishing 41st in the country.
Because Hamdan's talent at hand at UW was comparable to Vandy and Penn St coming off sanctions
Great analysis
I am rooting for him to be successful, but based on his resume we are in for a rough ride.
Got to give Jimmy credit, he hired a guy that makes slingblade look competent. That took a real search to make that happen
Some of the names that have been thrown out as better hires I have serious questions as to whether their identities match with what Jimmy wants to run.
We know he doesn't hold the Air Raid in high regard
The teams we have tended to struggle against the most are physical straight ahead teams -
My best hope is that Jimmy had the Belichick light come on, that the best way to structure your offense is through the prism of what a defensive genius, which Kwiatkowski is, finds hardest to scheme for. Jimmy has said some things that hint at this, and we can fantasize that he has even a fraction of K's genius.Tequilla said:
I think it's where his actions and words are tellingEmoterman said:
Do you have special knowledge of what Jimmy wants to run outside of "aggressive" and "attacking?" If so, pray tell. If not, what founding do your "serious questions" have?Tequilla said:
...FireCohen said:
The issues is Donovan’s track record smells of a fucking loser. And historic performance is pretty decent predictor of the future performance. This is a more risky higher, because unlike some unproven coach without a track record. This dude track record bites dick.Tequilla said:
Right ...whatshouldicareabout said:
He's been an OC for 5 years and never had an offense get ranked above 60th in the country.Tequilla said:It's funny reading everybody say that he sucks without really knowing anything about the guy other than some SP+ stats
We fired Hamdan after finishing 41st in the country.
Because Hamdan's talent at hand at UW was comparable to Vandy and Penn St coming off sanctions
Great analysis
I am rooting for him to be successful, but based on his resume we are in for a rough ride.
Got to give Jimmy credit, he hired a guy that makes slingblade look competent. That took a real search to make that happen
Some of the names that have been thrown out as better hires I have serious questions as to whether their identities match with what Jimmy wants to run.
We know he doesn't hold the Air Raid in high regard
The teams we have tended to struggle against the most are physical straight ahead teams
My hope is that Donovan and Derhan are facilitators via analysis and systems learned at the pro level, to best implement what K and Jimmy want to do on offense. -
And then ask yourself why...AtomicDawg said:
Dig deeper.Gladstone said:
ok teq my eyes and mind are openTequilla said:
Right ...whatshouldicareabout said:
He's been an OC for 5 years and never had an offense get ranked above 60th in the country.Tequilla said:It's funny reading everybody say that he sucks without really knowing anything about the guy other than some SP+ stats
We fired Hamdan after finishing 41st in the country.
Because Hamdan's talent at hand at UW was comparable to Vandy and Penn St coming off sanctions
Great analysis
let's hear it
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Who wants to hire someone with the thought of "let it play out" being how you move forward? This is a shit hire on that basis alone. Donovan has no modicum of success as an OC for people to say "good hire" so the fallback is LIPO. It's quite pathetic.
UW and big dick Jimmy either couldn't attract an OC candidate who has displayed a high level of success on any level, or Jimmy is completely in over his head and has no clue how to steer the ship. Either scenario is a damn depressing one. -
Since I am a Doog, I will play the role of Jimmy knows what he is doing and LIPO..... It's all we can do, until next Sept
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LIPO is a position of weakness.dannarc said:Since I am a Doog, I will play the role of Jimmy knows what he is doing and LIPO..... It's all we can do, until next Sept
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@BleachedAnusDawg gets it. It’s a sad day when BleachedAnus(insert mascot) has more awareness and intelligence than the athletic dept of the school you root for.
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If we are lighting up teams in September everyone will be happy. What we aren’t happy about it hiring a retread with a shitty past that has been wallowing in obscurity.Tequilla said:
I'm just saying that nobody really knows anything about this guy ...MakaDawg said:
We’re mere simpletons. We’ll patiently await your breathtakingly thorough, peer reviewed numbers crunch and prepare to be humbled.Tequilla said:
Right ...whatshouldicareabout said:
He's been an OC for 5 years and never had an offense get ranked above 60th in the country.Tequilla said:It's funny reading everybody say that he sucks without really knowing anything about the guy other than some SP+ stats
We fired Hamdan after finishing 41st in the country.
Because Hamdan's talent at hand at UW was comparable to Vandy and Penn St coming off sanctions
Great analysis
Everything is coming from the perspective of:
1) He was fired from Penn St and has been an offensive analyst in the NFL since then
2) SP+ stats
3) Comparative to Moorhead ... which I'm not entirely sure anybody's looked that deep at that
4) Twitter folk have been vocal against the hire
5) Nobody had heard of him prior to the hire
I've started looking into the numbers ... some of it feeds into some of the criticisms ... some of it isn't as bad as some are making it out to be.
Ultimately, nobody knows jack shit until we get to September.
All candidates had a red flag or two. This guy has the most and has had the least success. Those are facts.
No OC has done shit for us until September. Almost any OC would be better on paper than this guy. You think you’re making a point and you’re really not. -
Let’s be honest, this dude got hired because he took a piss in the same stall as Joe Brady
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To wit, this turd had the ultimate red flag in that he wasn't and shouldn't have been considered a candidate in the first place. One of your QC guys loves him and recommended him? Holy hell that's pathetic.RoadDawg55 said:
If we are lighting up teams in September everyone will be happy. What we aren’t happy about it hiring a retread with a shitty past that has been wallowing in obscurity.Tequilla said:
I'm just saying that nobody really knows anything about this guy ...MakaDawg said:
We’re mere simpletons. We’ll patiently await your breathtakingly thorough, peer reviewed numbers crunch and prepare to be humbled.Tequilla said:
Right ...whatshouldicareabout said:
He's been an OC for 5 years and never had an offense get ranked above 60th in the country.Tequilla said:It's funny reading everybody say that he sucks without really knowing anything about the guy other than some SP+ stats
We fired Hamdan after finishing 41st in the country.
Because Hamdan's talent at hand at UW was comparable to Vandy and Penn St coming off sanctions
Great analysis
Everything is coming from the perspective of:
1) He was fired from Penn St and has been an offensive analyst in the NFL since then
2) SP+ stats
3) Comparative to Moorhead ... which I'm not entirely sure anybody's looked that deep at that
4) Twitter folk have been vocal against the hire
5) Nobody had heard of him prior to the hire
I've started looking into the numbers ... some of it feeds into some of the criticisms ... some of it isn't as bad as some are making it out to be.
Ultimately, nobody knows jack shit until we get to September.
All candidates had a red flag or two. This guy has the most and has had the least success. Those are facts.
No OC has done shit for us until September. Almost any OC would be better on paper than this guy. You think you’re making a point and you’re really not.
I'm planting my flag on Derhan being good, though. I bet he's smart as shit. -
The one redeeming quality I can think of is that Donovan seems to really want to get his best players the ball. Maybe Jimmy has PTSD like all of us? from watching Opera and Fuller getting force fed that he reflexively picked the guy who promised to throw at Nacua and Spiker until their hands fall off.
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What does that have to do with anything? That was a Pete issue. It’s not an issue for a new OC.OreDawg said:The one redeeming quality I can think of is that Donovan seems to really want to get his best players the ball. Maybe Jimmy has PTSD like all of us? from watching Opera and Fuller getting force fed that he reflexively picked the guy who promised to throw at Nacua and Spiker until their hands fall off.
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Tequilla said:
I'm just saying that nobody really knows anything about this guy ...MakaDawg said:
We’re mere simpletons. We’ll patiently await your breathtakingly thorough, peer reviewed numbers crunch and prepare to be humbled.Tequilla said:
Right ...whatshouldicareabout said:
He's been an OC for 5 years and never had an offense get ranked above 60th in the country.Tequilla said:It's funny reading everybody say that he sucks without really knowing anything about the guy other than some SP+ stats
We fired Hamdan after finishing 41st in the country.
Because Hamdan's talent at hand at UW was comparable to Vandy and Penn St coming off sanctions
Great analysis
Everything is coming from the perspective of:
1) He was fired from Penn St and has been an offensive analyst in the NFL since then
2) SP+ stats
3) Comparative to Moorhead ... which I'm not entirely sure anybody's looked that deep at that
4) Twitter folk have been vocal against the hire
5) Nobody had heard of him prior to the hire
I've started looking into the numbers ... some of it feeds into some of the criticisms ... some of it isn't as bad as some are making it out to be.
Ultimately, nobody knows jack shit until we get to September.
Keep digging!!!
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Tequilla said:
I'm just saying that nobody really knows anything about this guy ...MakaDawg said:
We’re mere simpletons. We’ll patiently await your breathtakingly thorough, peer reviewed numbers crunch and prepare to be humbled.Tequilla said:
Right ...whatshouldicareabout said:
He's been an OC for 5 years and never had an offense get ranked above 60th in the country.Tequilla said:It's funny reading everybody say that he sucks without really knowing anything about the guy other than some SP+ stats
We fired Hamdan after finishing 41st in the country.
Because Hamdan's talent at hand at UW was comparable to Vandy and Penn St coming off sanctions
Great analysis
Everything is coming from the perspective of:
1) He was fired from Penn St and has been an offensive analyst in the NFL since then
2) SP+ stats
3) Comparative to Moorhead ... which I'm not entirely sure anybody's looked that deep at that
4) Twitter folk have been vocal against the hire
5) Nobody had heard of him prior to the hire
I've started looking into the numbers ... some of it feeds into some of the criticisms ... some of it isn't as bad as some are making it out to be.
Ultimately, nobody knows jack shit until we get to September.
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Good e’nuff for me.FireCohen said:Let’s be honest, this dude got hired because he took a piss in the same stall as Joe Brady
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Our doogs will average a 34-17 victory per game next season, rather easily I say.
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Tell me about the strength of your position? Is it making a difference? Is the AD or Lake reconsidering because fans are really pissed off on HardcoreHusky?BleachedAnusDawg said:
LIPO is a position of weakness.dannarc said:Since I am a Doog, I will play the role of Jimmy knows what he is doing and LIPO..... It's all we can do, until next Sept
I'm pissed. All the potential for getting excited about the staff changes is gone. I'm not sure what I can do about it other than LIPO and hope these guys surprise me.
There are plenty of players on the roster that I like and am anxious to see. That's what's left. Good thing I just like football or I'd have no reason to watch or come to this site. -
The dude has a crushed skull. I doubt he can count to ten.Emoterman said:
I'm planting my flag on Derhan being good, though. I bet he's smart as shit.RoadDawg55 said:
If we are lighting up teams in September everyone will be happy. What we aren’t happy about it hiring a retread with a shitty past that has been wallowing in obscurity.Tequilla said:
I'm just saying that nobody really knows anything about this guy ...MakaDawg said:
We’re mere simpletons. We’ll patiently await your breathtakingly thorough, peer reviewed numbers crunch and prepare to be humbled.Tequilla said:
Right ...whatshouldicareabout said:
He's been an OC for 5 years and never had an offense get ranked above 60th in the country.Tequilla said:It's funny reading everybody say that he sucks without really knowing anything about the guy other than some SP+ stats
We fired Hamdan after finishing 41st in the country.
Because Hamdan's talent at hand at UW was comparable to Vandy and Penn St coming off sanctions
Great analysis
Everything is coming from the perspective of:
1) He was fired from Penn St and has been an offensive analyst in the NFL since then
2) SP+ stats
3) Comparative to Moorhead ... which I'm not entirely sure anybody's looked that deep at that
4) Twitter folk have been vocal against the hire
5) Nobody had heard of him prior to the hire
I've started looking into the numbers ... some of it feeds into some of the criticisms ... some of it isn't as bad as some are making it out to be.
Ultimately, nobody knows jack shit until we get to September.
All candidates had a red flag or two. This guy has the most and has had the least success. Those are facts.
No OC has done shit for us until September. Almost any OC would be better on paper than this guy. You think you’re making a point and you’re really not. -
Neither paopaoMad_Son said:
The dude has a crushed skull. I doubt he can count to ten.Emoterman said:
I'm planting my flag on Derhan being good, though. I bet he's smart as shit.RoadDawg55 said:
If we are lighting up teams in September everyone will be happy. What we aren’t happy about it hiring a retread with a shitty past that has been wallowing in obscurity.Tequilla said:
I'm just saying that nobody really knows anything about this guy ...MakaDawg said:
We’re mere simpletons. We’ll patiently await your breathtakingly thorough, peer reviewed numbers crunch and prepare to be humbled.Tequilla said:
Right ...whatshouldicareabout said:
He's been an OC for 5 years and never had an offense get ranked above 60th in the country.Tequilla said:It's funny reading everybody say that he sucks without really knowing anything about the guy other than some SP+ stats
We fired Hamdan after finishing 41st in the country.
Because Hamdan's talent at hand at UW was comparable to Vandy and Penn St coming off sanctions
Great analysis
Everything is coming from the perspective of:
1) He was fired from Penn St and has been an offensive analyst in the NFL since then
2) SP+ stats
3) Comparative to Moorhead ... which I'm not entirely sure anybody's looked that deep at that
4) Twitter folk have been vocal against the hire
5) Nobody had heard of him prior to the hire
I've started looking into the numbers ... some of it feeds into some of the criticisms ... some of it isn't as bad as some are making it out to be.
Ultimately, nobody knows jack shit until we get to September.
All candidates had a red flag or two. This guy has the most and has had the least success. Those are facts.
No OC has done shit for us until September. Almost any OC would be better on paper than this guy. You think you’re making a point and you’re really not. -
Mad_Son said:
The dude has a crushed skull. I doubt he can count to ten.Emoterman said:
I'm planting my flag on Derhan being good, though. I bet he's smart as shit.RoadDawg55 said:
If we are lighting up teams in September everyone will be happy. What we aren’t happy about it hiring a retread with a shitty past that has been wallowing in obscurity.Tequilla said:
I'm just saying that nobody really knows anything about this guy ...MakaDawg said:
We’re mere simpletons. We’ll patiently await your breathtakingly thorough, peer reviewed numbers crunch and prepare to be humbled.Tequilla said:
Right ...whatshouldicareabout said:
He's been an OC for 5 years and never had an offense get ranked above 60th in the country.Tequilla said:It's funny reading everybody say that he sucks without really knowing anything about the guy other than some SP+ stats
We fired Hamdan after finishing 41st in the country.
Because Hamdan's talent at hand at UW was comparable to Vandy and Penn St coming off sanctions
Great analysis
Everything is coming from the perspective of:
1) He was fired from Penn St and has been an offensive analyst in the NFL since then
2) SP+ stats
3) Comparative to Moorhead ... which I'm not entirely sure anybody's looked that deep at that
4) Twitter folk have been vocal against the hire
5) Nobody had heard of him prior to the hire
I've started looking into the numbers ... some of it feeds into some of the criticisms ... some of it isn't as bad as some are making it out to be.
Ultimately, nobody knows jack shit until we get to September.
All candidates had a red flag or two. This guy has the most and has had the least success. Those are facts.
No OC has done shit for us until September. Almost any OC would be better on paper than this guy. You think you’re making a point and you’re really not.
Say it TO HIS FACE!! -
Emoterman said:Mad_Son said:
The dude has a crushed skull. I doubt he can count to ten.Emoterman said:
I'm planting my flag on Derhan being good, though. I bet he's smart as shit.RoadDawg55 said:
If we are lighting up teams in September everyone will be happy. What we aren’t happy about it hiring a retread with a shitty past that has been wallowing in obscurity.Tequilla said:
I'm just saying that nobody really knows anything about this guy ...MakaDawg said:
We’re mere simpletons. We’ll patiently await your breathtakingly thorough, peer reviewed numbers crunch and prepare to be humbled.Tequilla said:
Right ...whatshouldicareabout said:
He's been an OC for 5 years and never had an offense get ranked above 60th in the country.Tequilla said:It's funny reading everybody say that he sucks without really knowing anything about the guy other than some SP+ stats
We fired Hamdan after finishing 41st in the country.
Because Hamdan's talent at hand at UW was comparable to Vandy and Penn St coming off sanctions
Great analysis
Everything is coming from the perspective of:
1) He was fired from Penn St and has been an offensive analyst in the NFL since then
2) SP+ stats
3) Comparative to Moorhead ... which I'm not entirely sure anybody's looked that deep at that
4) Twitter folk have been vocal against the hire
5) Nobody had heard of him prior to the hire
I've started looking into the numbers ... some of it feeds into some of the criticisms ... some of it isn't as bad as some are making it out to be.
Ultimately, nobody knows jack shit until we get to September.
All candidates had a red flag or two. This guy has the most and has had the least success. Those are facts.
No OC has done shit for us until September. Almost any OC would be better on paper than this guy. You think you’re making a point and you’re really not.
Say it TO HIS FACE!!
https://youtu.be/SKRma7PDW10
