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Soul Train BOTBs Elite 8 (1960s) - #1 James Brown vs #2 Ray Charles
YellowSnow
Moderator, Swaye's Wigwam Posts: 37,318 
Soul Train BOTBs Elite 8 (1960s) - #1 James Brown vs #2 Ray Charles 21 votes
#1 James Brown
42%
9 votes
#2 Ray Charles
57%
12 votes
Comments
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#1 James BrownThis one was really close, but James' part in creating rap put me over the top.
Also, how fucking insane is it that two of the finalists are blind? -
#1 James Brown
Brother Ray's period of artistic and commercial relevance lasted from about 1954- 1963. JB's was 1959- 1971 so advantage JB. James was there with Ray when early R&B became soul but he was also there in the late 60's inventing funk.Dennis_DeYoung said:This one was really close, but James' part in creating rap put me over the top.
Also, how fucking insane is it that two of the finalists are blind? -
#2 Ray CharlesImpossible choice. Flip a coin. I went with the underdog and because I stand with @GrandpaSankey but either option is good enough to win it all.
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#1 James BrownSome of the difficulty with James is that what made him so great was his band... how much credit does he get for that? The reality is he controlled everything. He picked the players, he was famously demanding... so it makes it really complicated when comparing him. But he completely changed music by taking the 'vamp' part of songs and extending them to just groove. That changed everything, but it does result in his songs feeling a bit like they go nowhere... but holy shit. It changed things so drastically and - again - basically gave the template of break beats...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AoQ4AtsFWVM -
#1 James Brown
Christ man @Dennis_DeYoung it means everything. He's like the greatest band leader of the era. I might vote JB all the way just based on the instrumentals alone.Dennis_DeYoung said:Some of the difficulty with James is that what made him so great was his band... how much credit does he get for that? The reality is he controlled everything. He picked the players, he was famously demanding... so it makes it really complicated when comparing him. But he completely changed music by taking the 'vamp' part of songs and extending them to just groove. That changed everything, but it does result in his songs feeling a bit like they go nowhere... but holy shit. It changed things so drastically and - again - basically gave the template of break beats...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AoQ4AtsFWVM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2wYzU3XKqY
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#1 James BrownI'm a little surprised by the likely outcome here- i.e., Brother Ray taking down James Brown to advance to the final 4 against Stevie Wonder. Poles will close at 5PM today and Final 4 on Friday.
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#1 James BrownIf James Brown doesn't win, you all know nothing about music.
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#2 Ray Charles
I'm working on going blind. Daily.Dennis_DeYoung said:This one was really close, but James' part in creating rap put me over the top.
Also, how fucking insane is it that two of the finalists are blind?
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#2 Ray Charles
Disagree - James Brown was a RIDICULOUS entertainer. Hardest working man in show biz, you know.alumni94 said:If James Brown doesn't win, you all know nothing about music.
As far as a musician -he was a'ight. He had his schtick screaming and dancing and wearing capes and shit. But solely on listening to his tunes....just a'ight.
On the other hand, you've got someone like Stevie Wonder who is a fucking prodigy musically. Total triple threat - singer, musician, composer. Prince probably was in that mode too until he apparently got too deep into other dabblings.
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#1 James BrownPole closed. Ray wins 10-8.
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#1 James Brown
I agree about your statements around Stevie Wonder, but I think these are the factors.PurpleThrobber said:
Disagree - James Brown was a RIDICULOUS entertainer. Hardest working man in show biz, you know.alumni94 said:If James Brown doesn't win, you all know nothing about music.
As far as a musician -he was a'ight. He had his schtick screaming and dancing and wearing capes and shit. But solely on listening to his tunes....just a'ight.
On the other hand, you've got someone like Stevie Wonder who is a fucking prodigy musically. Total triple threat - singer, musician, composer. Prince probably was in that mode too until he apparently got too deep into other dabblings.
1. Hits created. Did they create music they public liked. (Not a one hit wonder either, had to do it over time).
2. Did they entertain. I'm not a bit fan of this, but I understand it's a factor.
3. Are they a great musician/singer. Talent counts.
4. Did they influence. I think this is the most important. They could have been ok in the other factors, but have a huge influence. I think this is where James Brown excels. He created a music style. -
#2 Ray Charlesalumni94 said:
I agree about your statements around Stevie Wonder, but I think these are the factors.PurpleThrobber said:
Disagree - James Brown was a RIDICULOUS entertainer. Hardest working man in show biz, you know.alumni94 said:If James Brown doesn't win, you all know nothing about music.
As far as a musician -he was a'ight. He had his schtick screaming and dancing and wearing capes and shit. But solely on listening to his tunes....just a'ight.
On the other hand, you've got someone like Stevie Wonder who is a fucking prodigy musically. Total triple threat - singer, musician, composer. Prince probably was in that mode too until he apparently got too deep into other dabblings.
1. Hits created. Did they create music they public liked. (Not a one hit wonder either, had to do it over time).
2. Did they entertain. I'm not a bit fan of this, but I understand it's a factor.
3. Are they a great musician/singer. Talent counts.
4. Did they influence. I think this is the most important. They could have been ok in the other factors, but have a huge influence. I think this is where James Brown excels. He created a music style.
Stevie wins all four of your criteria.
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#2 Ray Charlesalumni94 said:
I agree about your statements around Stevie Wonder, but I think these are the factors.PurpleThrobber said:
Disagree - James Brown was a RIDICULOUS entertainer. Hardest working man in show biz, you know.alumni94 said:If James Brown doesn't win, you all know nothing about music.
As far as a musician -he was a'ight. He had his schtick screaming and dancing and wearing capes and shit. But solely on listening to his tunes....just a'ight.
On the other hand, you've got someone like Stevie Wonder who is a fucking prodigy musically. Total triple threat - singer, musician, composer. Prince probably was in that mode too until he apparently got too deep into other dabblings.
1. Hits created. Did they create music they public liked. (Not a one hit wonder either, had to do it over time).
2. Did they entertain. I'm not a bit fan of this, but I understand it's a factor.
3. Are they a great musician/singer. Talent counts.
4. Did they influence. I think this is the most important. They could have been ok in the other factors, but have a huge influence. I think this is where James Brown excels. He created a music style.
